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blankseplocked Hulks are MASSIVELY underpriced!
 
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Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 06:52:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Mortania on 06/03/2007 07:51:31
Edited by: Mortania on 02/03/2007 06:48:17
Using the standard yearly operating costs that applied to the purchase price of all t2 bpos, I've discovered that the fair market value price of all hulks is in fact:

15.746 Billion ISK, per.

This represents the difference between a max'd Exhumer pilot vs. a max'd Covetor pilot mining Omber for a year.

By my simple calculations this means Hulks are going for only 3% of their Fair Market Value.

Sounds like a massive bargain to me.

Edit: someone pointed out that 15.6B seemed like it wasn't worth it. I'll point out I was measuring the difference in Omber. If someone were to mine say Bist or Ark, well then you can see just how much of a bargain 500M is.


Moved from Eve General Discussion to Market Discussions -Eldo

Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
Posted - 2007.03.02 06:54:00 - [2]
 

you're on a roll Laughing

that one gets a 9/10 !


(you forgot the ticktock)

Hiroko Fujiwara
Posted - 2007.03.02 06:58:00 - [3]
 

is there still room for the trolling award of the year?! cuz mortania sure is fighting hard to get itRolling Eyes

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:03:00 - [4]
 

It could also be argued that T2 BPOs are massively overpriced going by the standard Hulk pricing formula of build price x ~17. By that formula T2 BPOs should be free since they're build price is 0!

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:10:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Azerrad InExile
It could also be argued that T2 BPOs are massively overpriced going by the standard Hulk pricing formula of build price x ~17. By that formula T2 BPOs should be free since they're build price is 0!


Your ignorance is showing.

Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:11:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Revolution Rising on 02/03/2007 07:09:18
Reads: Here's a vastly oversimplified assumption driven argumentative rationalisation to forward my theory that I should have game-unbalancing wealth forever more.

RR.
edit: spelling error, who would've thunk it?

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mortania
Your ignorance is showing.

Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up.


The point is you can't necessarily apply the pricing scheme of one product to another. Otherwise you get situations like 15b isk Hulks and free T2 BPOs.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Revolution Rising
Edited by: Revolution Rising on 02/03/2007 07:09:18
Reads: Here's a vastly oversimplified assumption driven argumentative rationalisation to forward my theory that I should have game-unbalancing wealth forever more.

RR.
edit: spelling error, who would've thunk it?


You can take advantage of my massively game-unbalancing wealth forever for free* if you'd like, see my other thread.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:21:00 - [9]
 

Supporting your original rationalisation with a grand gesture to the community doesn't make it any less a rationalisation.

Have you considered a career in politics?

RR.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Revolution Rising
Supporting your original rationalisation with a grand gesture to the community doesn't make it any less a rationalisation.

Have you considered a career in politics?

RR.



For only 1B isk I will sell you the URL to my secret ISK making scheme in EVE. You too can be your own T2 Cartel! Trillions of ISK are yours for the taking! Operators are standing by!

Shameless Avenger
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:25:00 - [11]
 

Is it a pro-T2 forum spamming night?

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:26:00 - [12]
 

Now you're trying to bribe me. You ARE a politician! Laughing

RR.

Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar
Impel Industrial
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:47:00 - [13]
 

I think 500 is a good price. It's round, it's stable, it makes the BPO owners ridiculously rich, and obligates your average Exhumers 5 pilot to something like 30-40 hours of high end mining, assuming no problems and all the best equipment to reach positive return on investment. If anything was ever underpriced, it was the Skiff when Morphite was still worth 12000+, you could break ROI on your first mining op...

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 07:55:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Adam Weishaupt
I think 500 is a good price. It's round, it's stable, it makes the BPO owners ridiculously rich, and obligates your average Exhumers 5 pilot to something like 30-40 hours of high end mining, assuming no problems and all the best equipment to reach positive return on investment. If anything was ever underpriced, it was the Skiff when Morphite was still worth 12000+, you could break ROI on your first mining op...


It's generally crept up from there.

Trina Tron
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.03.02 08:10:00 - [15]
 

Stop posting.

Zaqar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2007.03.02 08:17:00 - [16]
 

loony

Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar
Narrative Freshfood
Posted - 2007.03.02 08:24:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Adam Weishaupt
If anything was ever underpriced, it was the Skiff when Morphite was still worth 12000+, you could break ROI on your first mining op...


Except that you need a system with low true sec. rating to mine it and that it was already more profitable to mine arkonor, bistot, crokite and maybe even dark ochre (nocx around 500isk) with a covetor during that time than to mine mercoxit with a skiff.

hotgirl933
Posted - 2007.03.02 08:40:00 - [18]
 

good post should be worth more thankfully its not

Caligulus
Legion of Lost Souls
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:15:00 - [19]
 

Your logic is flawed. No tool is useful without a user. No user is useful without a tool. You cannot attribute the value of the tool based on the labour of the user. For you see in fact, you've made the gross miscalculation of combining the value of the user and the value of the tool.

FTW. Razz

Barbarellas Daughter
Lonely Barbarella
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:22:00 - [20]
 

I hope they ban you for account sharing. How else could you mine 23/7?
Or macro mining....

Imagine there are casual players, playing some hours a week. I doubt they spend all their time with mining. So even if they mine half of their eve time (which is quite much) the payback time is a little bit higher than u think it is.

Of course it would be nice if they charge power-macro-sharing-toons like u 15b and the non-******ed people a reasonable price.

Now i wrote 5 min for your post and couldnt mine in this time.
You owe me 10m.

Reverend Revelator
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:42:00 - [21]
 

So, let me guess: You spent 5b on a t2 SMARTBOMB BPO, and now they are getting nerfed back to the stoneage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:43:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter
I hope they ban you for account sharing. How else could you mine 23/7?
Or macro mining....

Imagine there are casual players, playing some hours a week. I doubt they spend all their time with mining. So even if they mine half of their eve time (which is quite much) the payback time is a little bit higher than u think it is.

Of course it would be nice if they charge power-macro-sharing-toons like u 15b and the non-******ed people a reasonable price.

Now i wrote 5 min for your post and couldnt mine in this time.
You owe me 10m.


2 monitors FTW!

CCP is welcome to investigate my account. No one besides me, NOT EVEN MY WIFE, has ever logged into this account.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:43:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Reverend Revelator
So, let me guess: You spent 5b on a t2 SMARTBOMB BPO, and now they are getting nerfed back to the stoneage? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!




Keen observation. Or, not so much.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:44:00 - [24]
 

Yeah, right.

People were refusing free EMP Smartbomb II BPCs (or, rather, were not interested).

There are T2 BPOs and there are T2 BPOs. When someone utters the words "T2 BPO", he usually means "Hulk BPO", or "Ishtar BPO" or "Hammerhead II BPO", not "Spodumain Mining Crystal BPO".

When people say that Hulks are overpriced, they do not mean that purchasing a Hulk does not make economic sense (it does - that is why they sell even for 550 mil).

What people mean is that Hulk BPO owners are greedy bastards, and they are making money out of nothing - with no risk and no competition. Now, please, do not beat up a dead horse and argue that most poor hardworkiong BPO owners have purchased their prints for billions of iskies. You get no sympathy here. Yes, there are also people who have paid 300 or 400 million for a single unit of Zydrine. So what?

Me (and other anti-BPO people) are arguing from the point of game mechanics. Current game mechanics is such that a Hulk BPO owner is getting an ungodly profit with a relatively small time and skill investment, and with absolutely ZERO risk. There is NO other occupation in game that would provide THAT kind of profit with THAT little effort.

Ergo, T2 BPOs (and I don't mean Veldspar Mining Crystal II BPOs - I mean "good" BPOs) have to be nerfed - heavily into the ground. Either they have to be eliminated (BPO->BPC), or the competing ways of making T2 stuff (Invention etc) have to be significantly buffed to create some real competition. T2 manufacturing has to require effort. HACs should cost 10 times ore more than T1 cruisers.

But the people who are basically printing ISK now with impunity have to have their printers taken from them one way or the other. And, no, seeding more T2 BPOs with the lottery is not the solution.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:46:00 - [25]
 

And one more thing.... If the smartie BPO is so bad - why even complain about the possible nerf? It sucks, right?

(Just kidding. I know what you are talking about. But nobody is actually proposing to take the BPOs away without any compensation, so your income probably won't suffer much).

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:52:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Quilan Ziller

...ZERO risk...



I don't think you've ever been war-dec'd by 3 corps simultaneously. EVE is a primarily PvP game. Nothing has ZERO risk.

And several of the T2 BPOs you listed can be made into good money makers.

People want stuff for free without effort.

The problem is in supply.

If you had the BPO you'd charge what the market could bare as well. It's not GREED. It's an open market. If you don't charge what the market will bear, someone will buy up your T2 goods and resell them for the profit they will earn. This is why BIG and other producers who refused to increase pricing had cues of multiple years on all of their goods. Fat lot good that was doing anyone.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.03.02 09:54:00 - [27]
 

PPS: I have no knowledge of any Smartbomb nerfing. I guess I have some reading to do. I didn't select the SB BPO because of any recent news. It was a T2 BPO which we never operate because the profit is less than most T1 BPOs we operate.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.03.02 10:06:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Azerrad InExile
It could also be argued that T2 BPOs are massively overpriced going by the standard Hulk pricing formula of build price x ~17. By that formula T2 BPOs should be free since they're build price is 0!


Your ignorance is showing.

Production and unlocking of T2 BPOs is not zero (see my other thread). People have claimed it takes no effort and costs nothing to capitalize on T2 BPOs, and yet, somehow, when offered FREE T2 BPCs, no one wants them. Something doesn't add up.


I accept your challenge: I'll accept 10 Hulk BPCs from you and try to make some ISK with them, and will post a full report of the results.

Disclosure: I have never produced anything industrially within EVE.

SN3263827
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.03.02 11:15:00 - [29]
 

When a miner can (legally) make isk while afk, as a T2 producer can by assigning build jobs, your argument on ROI will hold water.

At the moment it resembles a sieve.

Time spent at keyboard moving minerals to and from cans/cargohold does not equate to time spent in bed while a factory slot churns out vagabonds, even during DT.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.02 11:32:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Dark Shikari on 02/03/2007 11:31:12
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

What people mean is that Hulk BPO owners are greedy bastards, and they are making money out of nothing - with no risk and no competition. Now, please, do not beat up a dead horse and argue that most poor hardworkiong BPO owners have purchased their prints for billions of iskies. You get no sympathy here. Yes, there are also people who have paid 300 or 400 million for a single unit of Zydrine. So what?


Greedy? No, its called capitalism. In capitalism, you produce an item and sell at the market price. The market decides what the price is. In this case, there is a static supply curve, which intersects the demand curve around 500 million. And so that is where people sell at. There is no one person in eve "choosing" what the hulk price is. If I sold Hulks at 200m (no I don't have a BPO), someone would buy them up and put them back at the market price.

There are only two ways to drop the hulk price. One is to increase supply (i.e. fix invention so it works for Hulks, yes, I mean you CCP), and the other is to decrease demand, i.e. stop buying them!
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

Me (and other anti-BPO people) are arguing from the point of game mechanics. Current game mechanics is such that a Hulk BPO owner is getting an ungodly profit with a relatively small time and skill investment, and with absolutely ZERO risk. There is NO other occupation in game that would provide THAT kind of profit with THAT little effort.


Um, I would call paying 100 billion for a BPO that might be worthless when invention is fixed to allow the invention of Hulks a huge risk.

Most T2 BPOs are selling for obscenely high prices at the moment. Almost any other blueprint or method of earning money in EVE will make your money back faster than a tech 2 BPO. They're not the magic money trees that most people imagine them as. You can make more with a few T1 battleship/battlecruiser BPOs and 10 billion in capital than you can with a 100-billion-ISK hulk BPO.

That, by the way, is why I don't actually own any T2 BPOs at all.


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