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Mal Renolds
Caldari
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:06:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Mal Renolds on 22/02/2007 10:05:59
This flat out sucks

No isk for missions I guess instead of fixing lag you want to target the mission runners now as the source of all your evil and bring these vile changes for the player just trying to play the basic game

Im not sure mature people want to log in on TS in a gang some of us have kids and real world stuff to do . Some of us after the Dev cheating debacle might just want to play the smaller aspects of the game

So what your saying is you dont want the money of the 3 hour a night player you want to cater to PVP which in eve can be ganks log off titain kills spys and meta gamming node crashing non fun

This is SWG all over again
Experiance may change during gameplay OMFG lets make this a fps!
Yea ccp and take everything Frontier like out of it

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:07:00 - [122]
 

I'm not that sure about the changes. Sounds not too bad in the first place but then ...

No bounty, ISK: If the agent gives better offers for LP, then okay. Otherwise bad.

L4/L5: Move the hard L4's to the new level 5. Fighting carriers and dreads in L5's? I am not sure if that is not a bit too tough. Please make it that 2-3 people in BS have a chance in a L5 mission.

L5+ in low sec: Since you need capitals for the higher missions so L5+ missions wouldn't make sense in high sec. However, that will be a happy chance for griefers to kill the mission runners. Mission runners usually have a set which is quite useless in PvP.

LP pool: Just great

Missions for mini-professions: Excellent idea

Agent rewards: Just got the idea that for example a astrosurvying agent could give bookmarks to interesting sites (mining/hacking/arch sites) as rewards.

In overall: thumbs up for the news.Smile

maarud
The Scope
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:09:00 - [123]
 

Another thing.

If people are able to share the rewards of a mission, ISK & LP. Will people that helped on the mission get standing increases too?

This is one of the main things that erks me about eve, is the grind through the low level agents. It makes me want to put a drill against my head and put on the hammer setting.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:11:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Toria Nynys
This is full of promise, so long as people in charge of implementation keep an eye out on risk/reward.

Adding risk to missions via surprise PvP (read: nearly guaranteed loss of your ride) is great, so long as it's possible to make at least or more than the cost of said ship in a couple of missions, not dozens or hundreds.

Doing missions in teams won't solve the gank issue, becase the pirates can just 'do' the mish runners in bigger blobs. They have the advantage of knowing what force to deploy (covert ops ships come to mind as the easiest scouting method) while the mish runners can't possibly estimate the size of a pirate invasion. You can't just dock and log every time local swells -- it's no fun, and in a popular mish running location it'll be impossible to tell the gankers from another mish running team.

Why do people mine out entire empire systems of scordite in Hulks? Because to them the added income of mining in lowsec/nosec outweighs the loss of a 550M ship + fittings.

Now. Think carefuly how rewarding a mission must be to risk a guaranteed eventual loss of a several billion ISK ship + fittings before trying to bulldoze anyone older than a month into lowsec.

Lots of thought, lots of effort and the feature may be completely unused because like much of 0.0, the risk/reward equation doesn't ballance for a great amount of people (a.k.a. carebears).

And if empire missions are 'nerfed' more with a loss of bounty ISK, well. Forcing mish runners into empire scordite mining may not turn out to be optimal for continued CCP revenue.

Oh, and being a faceless grunt in a hierarchy in a giant alliance to have access to game content -- once again, a lose. Yes, it models real life, but most of us are drones in RL. Games are an escape. Don't turn Eve into a second job.


/signed
/signed and
/signed
with all my 3 accounts Smile

To add to a good post:

1) you want to reduce the straight isk iniection in game through bounties, good, but the loss of revenue should be balanced by an increase in the loot value.

Currently the missions give very bad loot, and the fact that there is a chance of 1 mission in 100 giving a very good item is not a balancing factor, 99 persons getting 1 milion, and 1 getting 101 millions give an average of 2 millions, but the speread is very screwed, if the intended average is 2 millions, most of the rewards should be between 1.5 and 2.5 millions.

2) the jump from BC/BS in level 4 to Capital ship in level 5.
From what I know even the smaller capital ship cost billions. So the jump basic in mission gear cost from level 4 to level 5 is 10x.
I know that some mission runner use ships worth as much, but they are the elite, and most of them have brought up the ship a step at the time, a 50 mil module now, another after a week, and so on.
This step will require a big investment all in 1 step: about a billion in skill books, the same for the basic ship, and some extra hundred for the modules (as currently no level 4 mission drop any capital module).
Most small corporation like mine don't have that kind of capital unless they pool the resurce of multiple players.
But doing that will give a prime target for inter corporation theft, and leave all the corporation in very bad waters if the ship is lost before recovering the cost.
Add that probably initially there will be only 1 pilot capable of using it and with bad skills (both game skills and player related skills).

So the level 4 mission reward need to be balanced to give the chance to buy a capital ship with a reasonable number of missions, but that will in turn give access to too much isk.

So I suggest to balance levl 5 for multiple BS, and level 6 for capitals.

Perry
Amarr
The X-Trading Company
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:13:00 - [125]
 

Alliance Channel:
"We need all Capital Pilots! They are here! We must defend this Region at all costs or our Titan-in-construction is dead meat!"

"Ill help! After this lvl5 Mission, my Moros realy owns it"

"Ive a important Escalation here! Need the LP for Faction Moros!"

"Chill, ive three Capitals here, ill defend our Space, after this lvl 6 Mission, come on give daddy a Faction Nyx"

"Our whole Corp does a lvl 7 right now, we will defend the Titan tomorrow"

"Need... LP"

"Give... Faction...Capital...."

"...Screw...titan...faction...."

"...my precius...lvl7..."

Crying or Very sad

Maze La'Zie
Sons Of 0din
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:15:00 - [126]
 

Looks good, very good.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:22:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Zigg Omelo
NO LVL 5 IN LOW SEC SPACE.Take it to 0.0

CCP this is your chance to breathe some life into 0.0 and make more ppl move there

Otherwise, lmao at getting this done for the summer.... LaughingLaughing
0.0 already has a lot of people in it, low-sec needs some love. Furthermore 0.0 already has a lot of missions in it - player created missions. Go read COAD if you don't think there's much going on in 0.0!

Eventually this might persuade more people out there but as a first step CCP needs to get the carebear population into low-sec.

Andashi
Gallente
The Legion of Spoon
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:27:00 - [128]
 

Societys pioneers venture out forth into the unknown and insecure enviroment. The general population will not follow until it is safe to do so. When Concord move in no doubt so will the rest of usRolling Eyes Oh but then it wouldnt be 0.0 anymore would it!! Oh dear sucks to be you CCP!!

As fellow players say, your overlooking risk v rewards. Do not force your perceived style of play onto others, they will either change to something else or move on leaving your features under used. A lot of players are in high sec for a reason and that will never change but this does not mean you should take away the train set.

As for these lvl 5-7 capital ship missions in 0.0 what a nice little bonus for the allainces, as if the 24/7 plexing wasnt enough. CCP what were you thinking??

Tuahn
Perkone
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:28:00 - [129]
 

Personally, I don't like this much. The reason I don't like it is not directly related to the mission changes, but because this seems to be another punch in the face to low skillpointed players. Also, there is a new empathise on capital ships in Eve, and I think the game will suffer from it.

I don't want to see people running capital ships for missions. They are supposed to be the end game ships in Eve, the biggest and most expensive ships that mostly alliance people fly. Bringing them into battle should be scary, and potentially ruinous. Instead, everyone serious about missions HAS to train for them, and you have to be playing for years to even get near this new top-end content.

And the end result? The rich get richer, they already have the setups, and the poor struggle to keep up. Capital ship prices will treble with demand, making it even harder for them to grind up.

So yeah, I hate these changes.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:31:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Helmut Rul
Edited by: Helmut Rul on 22/02/2007 01:13:06
Edited by: Helmut Rul on 22/02/2007 01:10:07
A lot of the suggestions on the blog sounds great, However is still seems like CCP belives that they can force people into low-sec and this i belive is an major error.
Force them, yes, that would be an error.

It depends what CCP are going to do to L4 missions and what the higher levels give you.

Adding L5 to L7 could simply be another source of revenue. Empire dwellers will either utilise it or not exactly as the situation is now. We choose not to mine Ark and Bistot so we can choose not to run L5 or higher agents.

It is only a problem if CCP takes something away from Empire dwellers or denies them access to something that L5 to L7 can get them. As long as it remains possible to earn Isk/LP/<whatever> with L1 to L4 all will be fine.

Well..no doubt the true carebears will whine because they always want something for nothing but most of the playerbase will just choose how quickly they want to earn their stuff and how much risk they will tolerate doing it.

Liu
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:34:00 - [131]
 

i know EVE isnt Baldur's Gate or Morrowind, but it would be very nice to be able to take decissions over missions, and have different outcomes for it.

for example, typical mission of an ex-employee that has stolen some papers. the only way to resolve the mission now is going there, killing the bad guy, getting the papers and giving them to the agent. but, what if we had more options? for example, we find the bad guy, and he offers us twice the reward for not killing him, or he asks for mercy and we only have to scort him back to the station, or even, he offers us a job as a full-time spy and gives us some duplicates for the agent, so that he still trust us.

for every decision, there should be a completely different outcome, even opening up new layers or branches of missions, like getting in contact with a pirate aliance or a mafia leader.

also, i would love to see corpwide missions. corpwide not because they are harder or have tough rats, but because they happen at many places at the same time, or involve huge hauling. these missions could be accepted or denyed only by the CEO, and rewards should be huge corp LPs and standing.

and if you want to push the game towards the pvp side, you could introduce pvp missions. for example, if i have been working for caldary navy for a long time, probably gallente fedaration will hate me, so some gallente agent could ask for someone to kill me and give them killing right towards me on all gallente space. at the same time, my caldary navy agent would warn me that they have heard some rumours about gallente federation being angry at me and hiring someone to hunt me. maybe he could even send me on a special mission to steal the report and thus discover who is this pilot that has to kill me, and get kill rights over him on caldari space. probably this could be enhanced with factional warfare.

maybe even code some unespected encounters or reactions, like for example, if i find Estamel, and when he is nearly dead, i offer him to gang with me and remote repair him, he gives me a special bookmark where i can find many of his personal modules. of course, for this to work, it should be kept secret, and work only once. but still, i hope you get my point. gives us more freedom and ways to interact with npcs.

please, ANYTHING that introduces some unpredictability, randomness, challenge, thinking and thrill into the mission system. make so that we dont have to worry only about tanks and damage.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:37:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Shevaresh
force mission NPC relocking when more ships arrive. ie, if I'm doing a mission and another ship warps in, make the rats have a 50% chance (more if there are more ships) of delocking me and targetting the new guy(s). If I'm forced to fit for PvE, force them to as well.
Absolutely agree here.

If they're getting rid of bounties you could even have a few more ships spawn deliberately to go for the attackers. I would suggest that those ships also have a high probability of despawning when their targets leave and rarely leave wrecks. I'm thinking low value tacklers here just to help distract the pirates and help force them to fit for PvE. We don't want too many (need for speed and all that) and they shouldn't generally be valuable because that unbalances the mission.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:42:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 22/02/2007 10:48:36
Originally by: Katya Guillaume
Edited by: Katya Guillaume on 22/02/2007 04:22:59
Originally by: Koronos
I agree with Kaptein Trefot.

I think this:
> Slowly involves the "PvE" player in more "PvP" EVE activity.

displays a flawed mindset, and not for the first time. Everyone is different, everyone likes different things, let people play the game how they want to play it, rather than continually channeling them into how _you_ think it should be played.

Me? I'm all about the pvp. But not everyone is.

Koronos


Also agree about this. Dev mindset has slipped out; the rumors are true - pushing pve players into pvp will thin your subscriptions quickly. Either I want to do pvp or I don't; pushing me into it will mean I'll spend my money elsewhere.
As I've posted previously it depends what they change about L4.

Put it another way:If they don't change L4 then no-one is pushing you. They are just dangling another carrot in front of you. Reach out and take it or don't - your choice.

Comment to Oveur
I think it would help if you could clarify the L4 changes you envisage. I am slightly concerned by what you wrote but I'm hoping you are only talking about lopping off the odd one or two missions. Perhaps those that your stats indicate are being skipped by a lot of players.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:47:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 22/02/2007 10:44:47
Edited by: Andrue on 22/02/2007 10:43:41
Originally by: roBurky
This is all nice and stuff, for those that are already doing missions. But it doesn't help me get into the thing.

I'd quite like something to be done so I didn't have to grind through level 1 agents for weeks to get to something worth my time. It would be nice if mission running was possible without being a dedicated mission runner tied to one region of space.
I recently relocated my running so that I could repair my Caldari faction (was at -2.7 I think). It took me two weeks playing an average of two hours a day (including the weekends as it happens since I'm busy at work atm) to get to a Qty 13 L3 agent.

Edit:Oh and I was 'wasting' time looting the missions using a separate ship as well. If I had just concentrated on completing them and going for the next one I'd probably have done it in half the time.

maarud
The Scope
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:56:00 - [135]
 

I just had a though about the grinding of standing.

I rember playing privateer, the latest one and when you had suffciently messed up your standing with a faction, it was possible via certain people to able to bribe your way back into their good books.

Please make it possible to use LP to buy standings. If its the same corp, then its cheaper, a member corp from the same faction should be more expensive, a corp from a friendly faction should be even more expensive. Pirate factions/corps should be double the LP cost.


DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:57:00 - [136]
 

"Said capital-ship-driving-group-flying pilots probably remember said pirates from when pirate took pilot out the last time and capital-ship-driving-group-flying pilot will stop if he sees said pirate criminal flagged at a gate."

MMMMM, So npc Capital ships are going to be able to use gates...........

Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd.
Avateas Blessed
Posted - 2007.02.22 10:59:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: Anathema Matou on 22/02/2007 10:55:58
I like the changes, downgrading level 4 a bit and moving higher level content to low-sec while still keeping bits in hi-sec.

Thumbs-up for LP-rewards-store, although there is some serious balancing issues there. I'm thinking it runs a high risk of controlling the market prices for goods (pirate implants, anybody?), which wouldn't feel very EVE-like.

Also you should use the expedition system to get people moving away from the hubs even without much hand-placing agents. Quote 4/+18 agent: "Listen, my <4/0 buddy> in <less frequented location> needs your help with a situation over there, how about you visit him? Oh and here, please bring him this cake my wife made, too." [Possibly as a very low LP "courier" mission to make the player go there or refuse and risk a penalty. Like the old courier mission with the planetary vehicle, just now it is the anchor for the path to the next mission.]

One thing - please, this time, take proper care of the courier missions. Right now, they are exploitable, boring, too easy, you-name-it.

Bring back difficult courier missions. This will automatically make them less exploitable and interesting again. IMHO high-level courier missions should provide interesting content for people who run the odd job at work while the boss is looking the other way. Remove the no-brainer feeling of load cargo, autopilot to destination, dock, grab isk from agent, autopilot back - that's good for isk-farmers but not for people who enjoy the odd mission. You know, a year ago we actually had to think about how to best move all those goods in our industrial ships, or check where to get those trade goods from.


*edited for spelling*

Wolfo Fasttalker
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:08:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Mr Banzai
Originally by: Oveur
Level 4 will become closer to Level 3 in difficulty, the jump up will not be as drastic as it is now.
Level 5 will be the new level, consisting partly of the most difficult Level 4 missions, but mainly new missions.
Levels 5 and up are all in 0.4 security and below.



Sorry, but this pretty much looks like "moving level 4 missions to low-sec" to me.
To see where i'm coming from - i'm a dedicated mission runner, operating in high-sec and piloting a battleship.

If this change takes place, high-sec will have missions of (weakened) level 4 tops, requiring battlecruiser-class ships. While low-sec will get level 5 and harder missions, which, in theory, solo BS probably would be able to do. But keep in mind, this is a low-sec we're talking about, so forget your faction ships and mods, forget mission-focused fit and forget your feeling of safety. Basically, with L5s, we get either to a group mission-running, or to a capital-class ships (or preferably - to both combined).
Now, please excuse me, but what happens to the current battleship pilots? Right now, BS is a pinnacle of empire PvE play and there are a few of us PvE players (contrary to popular thinking, yes, we exist), who dedicated a bit of time and effort (just a little bit, mind you) to reach that pinnacle and now are working to excel in our chosen field of play. No, i'm not bored, there is alot to space to progress there still. But, all of sudden our specialization gets erased from the face of Eve?
What happens to our beloved mission-running machines? There is no way in hell i'd ever take my battleship anywhere with even a slight possibility of PvP, and i don't think i'm only one. What would be the use for all the faction ships and modules? No, they don't belong to PvP, and while i'm sure there will be people claiming how they both kill and lose 10-bil-worth ships daily, i doubt that's the common way of eve-life. And there are many other things directly connected or dependant on mission-runners. Read: huge hit to Empire market and economy if something bad happens to us.

There is an established niche for people like me, do not try to destroy it, please. Even if you manage to force us somewhere, probably it won't be the direction where you want us to go.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, it isn't all black, i like new/better/escalating missions and other fun ideas from the blog, but just too stunned with bad news now to be cheerful enough for the good part.


Dont think I could have put it better. Plus you are also pushing for Invention to update the T2 market, its hard enough getting decent standing with the Research Corp as it is without making the missions that give good standing increases less available.

4rc4ng3L
Gallente
C R Y O
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:10:00 - [139]
 

Okay i really like the sound of this....

For me the main reasons i dont do agent missions is repetition and the time it takes to move up the agent ladder. I'v almost been playing two years now and have not gotten past a lvl 1 agent Embarassed. The idea of having more agent levels and shortening the time it takes to move from one to the other seems like a much better system than having only a few but spending a great deal longer with them.

So these new ideas seem like a great change to me.

Gigi Barbagrigia
Malevolent Intentions
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:18:00 - [140]
 

Is this before or after you look around and see your AI is cca 1998 at best? More fun != same old in bigger ships. EW, logistics, aggro management ...

By all means, give us higher level agents, team missions and all that. Once you have basis. Funny how you claim Python allows you such great flexibility yet todays AI in games makes yours look like Space Invaders.

So my suggestion would be, go ahead with lvl5s as planned but after that sit down and start working on NPCs and make them on par with everything else in Eve. And hopefully that will fix drones as well.

Tyc walters
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:26:00 - [141]
 

With lvl 4 becoming lvl 5 and lvl 5 only beeing in low sec, i feel like i get the short end of the stick, again.ugh If i want to fight other players i'll go look for them. Last thing i need or want is when i'm running a mission is having some pirat jump in and engaging me to. If this happens i would either have to settle for lvl 3 (wich if i get it right will become lvl 4's) or move to low sec, and thats not gonna happen, i'm strongly considering to quit my accounts after 3 years if i keep getting pushed to low sec and it's large alliences who seem to feel they own everything whereever they decide to pop up.
I do suport that most missions can do with fewer number and thougher npc to make it more intresting, but adding player pirats to that mix is over the top for me

As for the lottery thing, no complaints there.

end of rant

Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:31:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Slowly involves the "PvE" player in more "PvP" EVE activity.

If by this you mean "Combat PvP" you are sadly kidding yourselves. "Combat PvE" players are not going to go "Combat PvP" and nothing you do will ever make them. If you take this flawed philosophy beyond the point where a "Combat PvE" player can't feel comfortable playing the game anymore *snip* - keep it civil. -Ivan K

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:43:00 - [143]
 

Moving lvl4s to lowsec at last, are we? And even trying to hide it behind some sneaky agent level overhaul... Rolling Eyes

What is the goal in the game for the PvE player? Usually to get that pimped faction ship and fight through his l4s with it. Eventually he will get bored and move on (happened to me anyway), or he might just be content doing it forever.

And now you want to take that goal completely away by making the best missions available to sane faction BS pilots doable in a Augoror fitted with basic modules? And put the missions that actually provide a challenge to faction BS out of their reach in lowsec? What a great idea to motivate the average PvE player!

Now if you left lvl4s alone and just introduced new mission levels that are only available in lowsec/0.0, THAT would be encouraging PvE players to explore new aspects of the game, while still leaving them the choice of continuing their existance.

But taking something we have had for years to lowsec and thus destroying an entire profession in EVE (arguably the biggest one even) is indeed forcing them to lowsec and will only lead to canceled subscriptions.

All but one of the issues on this blog are very appealing to me, but that one issue, nerfing highsec L4s, is much much more damaging than the others are helpful. In fact it is actually gamebreaking for a whole lot of people.

babylonstew
Caldari
Caldari Scouting and Intel Group
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:43:00 - [144]
 

there seams to be a problem here most have missed
no isk for missions but we get cool offers, yeah great :0
we all get nice faction mods, implants yadadadadada
nice we all get rich from that right?
well, actually no, becos from what i see, 99% of all faction mods are sold to mission rtunners, but now, they aint got any isk to buy anything with, they cant sell thier loot anywhere near as easily (smaller market), ther eis far more faction/uber loot coming into the game, so its actually worth even less.
slso, the missions are goign to take even longer, becos, you need to loot everything, for tags, whatever, so your isk potential has dropped thru the floor.
on the other hand, i liek most of the changes, except leave lvl 4's as is, and the rest is fine (apart from no bounties)

iudex
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:46:00 - [145]
 

Edited by: Iudex on 22/02/2007 12:23:38

Have just read the Blog and thought about the impact of the changes on missionrunning.

My oppinion: it will be great, hope it will come soon !!

Some other thoughts though:
The only capital ship class that is suitable for missions is the carrier.
While caldari missionrunner usually trained missiles (and some hybrids), the gallentes are concentrated on drones, ("domi the new missionrunner-king" etc). So the gallentes will be the big winners of this ? Or will there be new capital sized ships (or weapons, like cruise-missile-assault-launchers for the phoenix) or tech 2 battelships in order to prevent the die-out of missile-user ?

Second thing are ofc. those missionrunner-killing-commandos. It's not that simple to always dock when you see a pirate in local. In a system with many, there will be always one or 2, so staying docked all time ? They will send in a tackling squad of elite frigs, which capitals cant do much against, and then jump in their dreadnought-squad from another system, killing evry mission-fitted carrier&friends fast - and let's be honest, it's no problem to lose and replace a drake or even a raven, but with capital-sized missionrunner ships, which will cost a decent ammount of isk it's completely diffrent.
A positive thing is the sharing of rewards though, making several missionrunners to do missions together, but again, mission-specific fitting (hardeners, no ew, no sramblers) + having the aggro of npcs, will always be a invitation to pirates, which will then be better organized and jump in with bigger forces, knocking a missionrunner out for months.

Gwendolyne Croft
Posted - 2007.02.22 11:46:00 - [146]
 

Missions Lvl 5 only in low sec? I dont see that. Why? That the low sec pirates gets more targets? I see the problem with capital ships and Empire, but when i want to do some missions, the last thing i want to is PvP with other players.

- Make Gates in low sec 0.1-0.4 safe
- Hide Missions in low sec 0.1-0.4 that they cant be found with exploration

If there is a problem with Population - just add new Systems to the EvE Universe.

Zaolen Ying
Mutually Assured Distraction
Posted - 2007.02.22 12:06:00 - [147]
 

As a burgeoning noob, who has just managed to get into a Myrmidon, here are my thoughts.

I think what's making people angry is not so much the additions of the new higher reward agents, but the fact that their existing ones will be nerfed to accomodate. I disagree with this decision as well - i don't mind the removing of bounties on the mission rats, so long as the rewards are in some way balanced (the corp-wide LP seems to be a good start - but how about also more diverse and useful LP rewards - named modules for instance - this can balance out the no bounties - and thus help starting players on their feet, as well as older players by giving them upgrades to their ship)

Now, instead of nerfing the current Level 4's, why not keep them as is, and just add Level 5 above that. In fact, you wouldn't even have to make the difficulty jump in terms of PvE progression between level 4 and 5 very big, because the nature of level 5's being in low-sec already represents a very big jump in difficulty for a lot of people.

As for Level 6 and 7 agents, im not experienced enough in the game to really comment. But i hope they aren't all going to be located in 0.0.

Anyway, assuming that Level 4's aren't nerfed, and level 5 is added above that, then i can really see this overhaul working for a lot of reasons.

Firstly - the empire mission runners can still run their level 4 missions with comparatively the same rewards (if no bounties) and be happy where they are, however, those who want a bit more, can go into low-sec. Now, the idea of low-sec as i see it is that it is rather a lawless place, and so you need friends and (some) organisation if you want to stay there.

This immediately in my mind becomes something which involves the corporation - you would have your entire corporation move their base to low-sec, the mission runners can then access their lovely level 5 agents, the miners can access the low-sec ores, and the corp PvPers can have their share of fun and games (and keep the others relatively safe!)

In fact, it seems like the perfect idea of a prepping ground for moving into 0.0, as a corporation could effectively move into a system / a few systems and make it safe for their members to work in.

The Corporation shared LPs then makes a lot more sense in my mind (if, i read it correctly - i.e. the entire player corp has a shared LP pool with an NPC corp), because then the mission runners efforts benefit the entire corp who can get agent rewards, and the corp PvPers will make it so the mission runners (and miners) can tackle their missions (and roids) without that much risk.

However, the rewards need to be good for it to be worth the effort that an entire corporation puts in. How about also making agent mission difficulties dependant on the sec-status? so Agents in 0.1 space give out far harder missions than 0.4 (With much greater rewards), and thus in turn require much greater organisation. As for actual concrete numbers for rewards, i don't really know enough to say how much it would cost a corp to effectively live in low-sec, but whatever the figure is i'm sure mission rewards can be balanced so as to provide an effective means of income (along with mining) to make living in low-sec more rewarding than living in empire (so long as the organisation and effort are put in).

Of course, i may just be idealising the situation but overall this change has got me very excited, and in my opinion those people who blankly oppose it are viewing it from the wrong angle.

Of course, i realise that it probably doesn't bode well for those people who like solo-mission running, but then, getting the higher rewards means more risk/effort right?

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2007.02.22 12:32:00 - [148]
 

LOL i realized only after a while it is just another attempt from ccp to move people to low sec, hahahahahaa!!!

Making L4 agents more Like L3 (does this include making the rewards more like L3 too, i can guess the anwers on that) then making L5 as a replacement of the current L4's but placing that in low sec... encounters with capships so u will prolly need a capship yourselves and oh wait.. u can only use capships in low sec as well.

Please don't rant. -Ivan K

Anyways i'm too angry atm so i won't continue ranting on and when i get home i will reread the blog and mebbe re evaluate my opinion, but i'm fearing the worst for this game... sigh...


Par'Gellen
Gallente
Neon Cranium
Posted - 2007.02.22 12:41:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Par''Gellen on 22/02/2007 12:40:06
Originally by: 000Hunter000
F*CKING CHRIST ALLMIGHTY!!! WHEN WILL CCP FINALLY REALIZE THEY CANNOT FORCE PEOPLE INTO LOW SEC??? WTH IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE???

Anyways i'm too angry atm so i won't continue ranting on and when i get home i will reread the blog and mebbe re evaluate my opinion, but i'm fearing the worst for this game... sigh...


You got it right. Personally I'd rather CCP just come out like men and tell us non-combat PvP types to go away and give our money to some other company instead of playing all these stupid mind games. If you don't want our money JUST TELL US THAT!

God the more I think about their insane attitude toward their own game the more it infuriates me!

Edit: Bad grammar due to anger!

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2007.02.22 12:43:00 - [150]
 

I did'nt read all 6 pages from the low sec pirates, so this is what I think of your blog....

DONT SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT CCP!

Missions brought a PVE based player...a Solo PVE player at that. Now you bringing in more missions?

Level four mission are bad enough now....you want to add more??? I can see the fun of takeing a dread into a level 7 mission....I DONT FREAKING THINK SO! Those ships are ment for one and only one purpose PVP.

By adding these things that are almost certin to be capital ships are required beyound this point, your going to add more stress to the servers to benefit the very few that have capital ships.


I dont know anymore...






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