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CCP kieron

Posted - 2007.02.21 21:54:00 - [1]

Invention, BPs and the Lottery aren't the only topic of discussion today. Oveur wrote another Blog about Agents, Missions, Levels and more. In fact, more seems to be the theme of the Blog, more Agents, more Missions, more Levels and well, more!

So, yeah, there I was sitting in Jita, chatting with a couple buddies in Local and My Agent EVE mailed me and wants to offer... WHAT?!?!?

Oveur Reply from page 12

Sorry for the late reply, my sons school is closed and that puts a dent in my fora whora schedule Very Happy

On forcing people

We're not forcing anyone to do anything. You have the choice to do what you want in EVE, we're simply providing the options. If you don't like an option, you don't have to try it, but we reserve the right to put these options in context with what we believe is the right context.

Remember, the EVE community got us where we are and we're eternally grateful, but sometimes I feel some pilots forget that we all made EVE together and even though the past isn't littered with good decision or opinions, I'd say we're all here because we love EVE and the good has outewighed the bad, right? Very Happy

On forcing people into low sec specifically

It's true that some of the Level 4 mission we feel are too lucrative to have in such high security space. These are the ones we're moving to Level 5. However, I realize I failed to mention that we are filling up Level 4 with more missions than we are removing. They'll be fun, challenging and more akin to most Level 4. Zrakor has been going over the missions and it looks like we're moving somewhere between 5-10 but we're adding 20 already - probably ending up with 30 new ones while we wait for the new agent levels to be delivered from the software department.

For short, this isn't the end of the world, rather than before, I should simply have clarified more what's happening with Level 4 itself.

Also don't forget, we have a co-operation plan kicking in with White Wolf / CCP NA where we'll be fleshing out more the individual corporations and bridging better the gap for the Rookies, so Level 3 is also getting some love here.

Love the feedback though, and keep it coming, but let's not spend too much time on the death of Level 4 and all high-sec mission running. It's changing, more varied with new tools, surely, but it's not the end of the world.

- Oveur

Net 7
The Last Brigade
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:01:00 - [2]

My comment is simple.

This is full of awesome. I can't think of any complaints about the proposed changes, or any suggestions.

Can't wait.

Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:07:00 - [3]

Thank god for "Store style LPs".

But crap about the no ISK thing. Yeah, there is inflation, but it's not all because of the mission system.

IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:10:00 - [4]

I love you.


Ars ex Discordia
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:20:00 - [5]

Edited by: Quutar on 21/02/2007 22:17:07
Crap... wrong topic

anyway... looks fun ^_^... the cap ships in missions should be a blast

IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:26:00 - [6]

Is there any way I can "recruit" agents into my friendly neighborhood outpost or conquerable station? It seems that those with in-region access to 0.0 missions often have an advantage over those of us who've labored to build up POS networks and all the other infrastructure required to own our own space. Doesn't this strike you as a bit of a contradiction, in terms of where you want the gameplay to flow?


Black Legion.
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:30:00 - [7]

LVL 7 missions will be funny at corp lvl :)

Freelance Unincorporated
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:31:00 - [8]

people will probably dislike the lack of bounties the most in as much as the rogue drone space people hate the lack of bounties there. Asset injection is a much nicer method in that its layering as if people want isk, they must sell the item from the store, or refine it and then sell it through secondary markets. On the flip side, it provides equipment direct to the pilot so they will not have to go out to the market and buy it.

My only distinct thought would be primary manufacturing, if the assets are being injected, then some players will invariabily be using the agent assets and not player manufactured items which in turn affects primary miners who provide to the manufacturing market.

It is possible we could still aim for a comprimise, make the store offer, bpc's only for a large number of items and throw in implant blueprints instead of items and start a little side market there it what is a still largely supply restricted market.

You could also I suppose turn all bounties into tag based, so the wrecks must be scooped or corpse collected (for the implant/corpse farming escalating path), which in turn are paid by the relevent authority.

The standings themselves could also be a reward in a world where standings matter :)

Probably the best addition possible will always be group missions with group rewards, mmo's are always about social gaming and missions I have always felt never really delivered on that.

Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:36:00 - [9]

Changes all look kick-ass.

Personally I feel it would be nice if, while rebalancing all the mission levels, the amount of grinding needed to get good corp standing was reduced. I have no interest in missions per se, but to access a number of interesting agent services, such as (decent) research agents, locater agents, etc, much grinding to Lv.4 agents is needed. I have no interest in my mission agent, my loyalty points or rewards (which pale in comparison to ISK I can make elsewhere), I just want the services available when you have good standing. It's like the license tests in Gran Turismo, pointless and annoying unless you're into it, but necessary to access parts of the 'real' game.
Or a way of earning standing without doing missions, or a way to buy standing with my 0.0 riches ^ ^

Suppose it's really asking for the best of both worlds though, having the mission runners' nice toys without actually running many missions...

Progressive Knowledge Research
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:37:00 - [10]

Edited by: Xeoz on 21/02/2007 23:27:36
Wow, quite a blog. I love the idea of new mission levels... capital ship missions sound great. Major group missions sound great. New mission options sound great.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, this plan seems to have the major effect of:
Current level 4 missions are getting pushed into low-sec space.

  • Level 4 will become closer to Level 3 in difficulty, the jump up will not be as drastic as it is now.

  • Level 5 will be the new level, consisting partly of the most difficult Level 4 missions, but mainly new missions.

  • Levels 5 and up are all in 0.4 security and below.

Its hard to tell if this is a good or a bad thing yet. There are so many other significant changes to the way missions work. Either way this is a major change.

Posted - 2007.02.21 22:41:00 - [11]

Edited by: Goumindong on 21/02/2007 22:39:19
Are you sure you want to require capital ships for level 5 missions and above? It seems kindof excessive and penalizing to mission runners who dont want to go the capital ship route.

Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:44:00 - [12]

If you're going to let capital ships into missions, I have only one thing to say,

balance the f-ing Moros!

Auron Shadowbane
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:45:00 - [13]

if you introduce capital ship "rats" in missions, what about adding them to 0.0 asteroid belts too?

maybe push battleships down to lowsec (increase income for lowesec people) and make the high-end spawns in 0.0 fly capitals?

make ratting a more trilling thing to do too :)!

Posted - 2007.02.21 22:46:00 - [14]

I endorce these proposals

Posted - 2007.02.21 22:47:00 - [15]

btw, those this mean you could aquire faction captial ships from agents?

Vincent S
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:53:00 - [16]

I think your focus on capital ships is what will eventually kill Eve, and I think it's horrible. Already non-capitals are becoming useless in alliance warfare because of titans, and now you want to let them do missions as well? How is it possible to have developed a game so amazing yet lack any sort of insight into what makes a game fun?

HINT: It's not slow ships that PRES BUTAN until one of the parties involved is dead, it's varied ships of different sizes and mixed unit tactics. Titans have destroyed all fun involved in alliance wars and you're only making it worse.

Zigg Omelo
NorCorp Enterprise
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:54:00 - [17]

NO LVL 5 IN LOW SEC SPACE.Take it to 0.0

CCP this is your chance to breathe some life into 0.0 and make more ppl move there

Otherwise, lmao at getting this done for the summer.... LaughingLaughing

Red Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.21 22:58:00 - [18]

are you going to reserve 0.0 agents to npc owned stations only or is it possible to get agent in player built outpost?

Kaptein Trefot
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:00:00 - [19]

What is the thought behind lowering the difficulty current level IV missions? These changes will completely remove the use of faction BSs with faction gear as there is no way ppl will take a BS worth 4 carriers into low sec and level IIIs can be done just as effectively with the tier II BCs.

With rigs the current level IVs can be done easily with very low skill points. I see no reason to lower its difficult level - if anything it should be raised. I fear the law of unintended consequences will bite your ass badly if you make such a change.

Argenton Sayvers
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:01:00 - [20]

Great blog, some great ideas. I think it may be the first time that i say that ...

However, the one thing i dont like is missions ruining your standing with empires. You should make sure that there are always enough missions focusing on killing pirate factions. Else its just another way to ruin your character for laughable rewards.

Siri Blue
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:01:00 - [21]

Edited by: Siri Blue on 21/02/2007 23:03:34
\o/ <- remember this?

At last I should say some movement...

One question though: What about Courier style missions?

And also...I so wanted to use my Thanatos Carrier and my little fighters against those pesky Caldaris in Empire Missions/Wars...guess that will only happen in low sec now :(

I really like the idea of removing bounties on a lot of ships...(I earn a lot of isk with that atm) but...if you do THIS to missions you also have to do it to belt rats!

Otherwise people will just ignore missions and belt rat all day...and if you really want some more isk sinks...don't forget to adjust belt rats!

(I always wondered what fleets of pirates did in asteroid belts waiting for capsuleers to eradicate them again and again)

What I'd really LOVE to see is some missions BEFORE Kali2
like one mission a week or so as an appetizer?

Cheers for finally adressing the PvE/mission part of Eve...its long overdue!

\o/ <---

P.S.: Will there be any perks for having a 10.00 faction standing? Atm really high standings mean about nothing Embarassed

Posted - 2007.02.21 23:02:00 - [22]

This Dev blog came in the right moment!

i m courios about the new agentlevels/missiontypes and whatever u will implant in this.
lpoint sharing... storing Very Happy

Best news !

Mac= happy

The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:04:00 - [23]

Edited by: Shadowsword on 21/02/2007 23:00:56

Changes in agents levels:

How will that affect the current research agents? New agents? Improved agents?

Posted - 2007.02.21 23:07:00 - [24]

I can see whines on the horizon.

Allow me to illuminate:
As current missions stand, they are solo afairs. Ergo, it follows that people that gravitate toward missions are the solo players. In order to beat most missions, solo players feel that they're "forced" into "PvE" setups (lots of cap recharging modules, no scramblers, few webs... heck Caldari and some minnies just shield tank through the missions)

Why do I bring this up? Because the good missions are being pushed into Low-Sec space. Pirates have existed in Low-Sec for some time. They're established there, and mission runners avoid Low-Sec becuase they expect to see Pirates. Why do mission runners avoid pirates? Because the ship they're running doesn't stand up to a player setup.

Missions need to start requiring "PvP" setups to complete. Even if that means the mission runner needs to use that PvP module for something other than keeping a ship scrambled.

I'm all for more levels, Loyalty Point rewards, and LP stores. I LOVE the idea of seeing capitals in missions, and running higher level missions with a capital ship. However, unless missions start to require PvP setups, than I don't think moving missions into low-sec will have the desired effects.

One possible solution to the problem I've introduced above:
Have Cruiser level and above NPC ships have a high chance of warping off (escaping the mission runner) unless that mission runner fits a scram to keep their target nailed down.

Responding to the poster that discussed Agent rewards, mission gear as rewards, and its impact on the player market:
Look at the current T2 market for examples on why (i think) it is bad to have a completely closed economic system in a video game.

To me, placing the entire production of T1 and T2 items in player hands only opens the market for abuse. As an example, look at the T2 cartels that currently exist. They have monopolies on T2 BPO's and use that monopoly to set prices. Prices, that are (again, in my opinion) too high for the module. An NPC outlet for luxury items helps price check the player market.

Posted - 2007.02.21 23:11:00 - [25]

Originally by: Zigg Omelo
NO LVL 5 IN LOW SEC SPACE.Take it to 0.0

CCP this is your chance to breathe some life into 0.0 and make more ppl move there

Otherwise, lmao at getting this done for the summer.... LaughingLaughing

Show me a space of 0.0 space that isn't already dominated by player entities, and I'll agree to this proposal. Otherwise, all you are doing is hording the best toys (high level missions, high level complexes, moon harvesting, outposts, etc.) for the people that have played the longest. **** that. I don't mind restricting level 6 and above in 0.0, but you want to take level 5 missions away from people that don't have access to 0.0? Nice and selfish there.

I say selfish becuase, according to the blog, level 5 missions will have the same difficulty as level 4 missions have now. By moving all level 5 missions into 0.0 space, you are essentially taking a feature that empire corps can experience, and put it out of reach. You would be taking a feature away from people that can use it now. How is that balanced or fair?

EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:15:00 - [26]

The way the Blog reads all the Devs are doing is giving a new set of mission agents to the large alliances that own 0.0 space. What good are these new lvl 5+ missions going to do for players who aren't in one of these swarm alliances.

11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:17:00 - [27]

I strongly disagree with moving agents to 0.1-0.4.
Move them to 0.0, fine, but when milking my cashcow I want to be left alone without watching my six all the time.
Alliance warfare is already enough of a strain, thank you, we all need some break from time to time.
If 0.4 to 0.1 would disappear all together, I'd be more than happy.

There's another problem with the proposed changes: some corps don't have 0.0 systems and some corps don't have any Empire system (like Mordu's Legion), which prevents from building reputation with said corps.

I also hope you won't make missions forced grouped, for many of us PvPers it's the only way to make cash (with ratting, bleh) and missions have been nerfed bad enough isk wise.
No isk, no PvP and (shocking news) some of us have a life outside of EVE.

Thx for reading.

Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:18:00 - [28]

The part that concerns me is the lvl4/lvl5 missions.
So basically you'll have the following progession
lvl 1: frigs
lvl 2: frigs/cruisers
lvl 3: cruisers/battlecruisers
lvl 4: battlecruisers
lvl 5: capital ships

I'd like to keep a set of missions that are comparable to the current level 4 missions available for battleships that are also in highsec. It sounds like you'd be creating a huge jump from level 4 missions in battlecruisers to level 5's using carriers in lowsec.

Also, is it wise to force all missions that are challenging enough for a battleship to be in lowsec? You're going to be forcing mission runners in lowsec systems where they must either fit for pvp and/or accept that someone is going to probe their mission or gank them at a gate. I wouldn't want to bore myself running the new level 4's in a battleship and risking losing one to gank squads for lowsec level 5's probably wouldn't be profitable enough.

If you really want to get people into pvp, make Jita a 0.0 system.

The Scope
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:20:00 - [29]

Mission rewards can be split among a group.

Does this include any LP that has been given to the person running the mission.

Also, can LP be traded to a player, or perhaps even a corp.

Example. With my corp, I run a level 6/7 mission, the rewards are split between the players, but all the LP goes to the corp.

Also, could we be expecting new rewards? Will the LP gained from L4's be revised to something lower, or will they pretty much stay the same.

I like what I'm reading tbh, it's a nice step in the right direction to encourage group play.

Kaptein Trefot
Calista Industries
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2007.02.21 23:20:00 - [30]

Edited by: Kaptein Trefot on 21/02/2007 23:33:44
Edited by: Kaptein Trefot on 21/02/2007 23:23:04
There is a lot of carebears in this game and the only universal issue that angers carebears is an attempt to force your game-play upon them. There are a lot of high sec mission-runners and those ppl simply don’t want to play the PvP game you are offering in low sec and 0.0.

If your 'idea' of how you intended this game to be is more important than your business, than this is the way to go. If you want the player-base in eve to grow, you should definitely rethink the consequences of these changes to high sec missions.

Force a playing style on a carebear and it will be the last time you see him.

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