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bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:46:00 - [601]
 

All I know at this point is what's been presented here. IF it's true that he sat in a POS for 3 hours before logging there isn't any way, by the correct mechanics of the game, that he should have had aggro. Unless I am mistaken, you cannot even target, and you cannot be targeted, while inside a POS bubble.

IF he logged off from a POS after sitting there for three hours and he was somehow aggroed, it is an exploit. It, at the very least, takes advantage of a coding error in the game.

I'll be honest and say that I don't know what the rule is about exploiting, versus reporting, bugs in the game. In other MMOs that I have played exploiting a discovered bug instead of reporting it is a bannable offense. If it isn't in Eve, it should be, IMO.

Aries Acheron
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:47:00 - [602]
 

Well. This seems to be the case.

This screenshot I got from another thread shows how it was done.

http://shadowforce.wiredhub.net/bob/2007.02.16.17.58.48.jpg

Apparently, a member of the Titan's own gang in a covert ops waited for the Titan to go outside of the shield, then smartbombed it with a micro, giving it aggro as it logged. The Titan zoomed off, and BoB probed.

There's no passive targetter there, and given that the titan was POSed up, wreck aggro doesn't look like it's involved. A painful blow and one reason why I hate spies in any sense, but it seems 'legit' as far as claims of hacking or bugs go. If it's legit morally.. well. It's effectively the same thing as what happened to Cyvok's it seems...

Ewa Quillam
Caldari
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:48:00 - [603]
 

Originally by: Tainos
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
If it's true that the titan sat in a pos for 3 hours and then it logged off while agressed it could mean a spy fired on him and fired on him right before he disconnected. This was stated before in the thread.



It was also stated before in the thread that you can't shoot people inside a POS. Duh.


Although I didn't test either of them, there are 2 possibilities:
- smartbombs
- target and fire at the ship from without the pos by using a passive targeter.

Ozzie Asrail
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:50:00 - [604]
 

Originally by: Ewa Quillam
Originally by: Tainos
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
If it's true that the titan sat in a pos for 3 hours and then it logged off while agressed it could mean a spy fired on him and fired on him right before he disconnected. This was stated before in the thread.



It was also stated before in the thread that you can't shoot people inside a POS. Duh.


Although I didn't test either of them, there are 2 possibilities:
- smartbombs
- target and fire at the ship from without the pos by using a passive targeter.


Looks at SS. http://shadowforce.wiredhub.net/bob/2007.02.16.17.58.48.jpg

Yea inside the pos shield...

Faridah
Minmatar
Solar Storm
Sev3rance
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:50:00 - [605]
 

Edited by: Faridah on 16/02/2007 21:51:08
I just want to add you can't kill anything within a POS shield with a smartbomb. Even if you're inside yourself.
Edit: The tower got some dmg tho Laughing

At least that was true 2 months ago as a hostile pod had made it inside our shields
and I try to whack him.
That time the pod had made it inside the shields because of an bug.

BTW: How can you get your entire emplyment history erased like Shrike has ? Is that soem default if you buy a char ?

Aries Acheron
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:51:00 - [606]
 

Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
Originally by: Tainos
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
If it's true that the titan sat in a pos for 3 hours and then it logged off while agressed it could mean a spy fired on him and fired on him right before he disconnected. This was stated before in the thread.



It was also stated before in the thread that you can't shoot people inside a POS. Duh.


Although I didn't test either of them, there are 2 possibilities:
- smartbombs
- target and fire at the ship from without the pos by using a passive targeter.


Looks at SS. http://shadowforce.wiredhub.net/bob/2007.02.16.17.58.48.jpg

Yea inside the pos shield...


Actually, you can clearly see the Titan outside of the shield.

Kiwimagic
Caldari
Star Ocean Corporation
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:52:00 - [607]
 

Quote:
It's funny that whenever bob kills a big e-peen people cry out load for cheater! exploit! hax! When a coalition jumps with 1000 into a system knowing they will crash the node, it's a valid tactic.


Didn't LV bubble the gate and release drones to increase lag? Yes I think so, if not to crash the node then to increase lag, plain and simple they went for the omg we're lame tactic and come off second best.

Secondly its FACT that BoB is propped up by dev's everyone knew it and it was confirmed a week ago. so aslo plain and simple they are a cheater alliance they haven't done it all themselves, saying that its a sad reality for the BoB guys who did work for it, they are tared with the cheater brush and that is a real shame. Its not the exctent of the dev's helping its the FACT that they did. Sorry but IMO noone loses to BoB they have had an unfair advantage.

Its also a shame that everytime something like this happens its found to be an exploit ppl seem to be to scared to front up and slog it out. some people call it tactics but shooting a offline ship is not anything to be happy about its kinda lame.

bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:54:00 - [608]
 

Originally by: Aries Acheron
Well. This seems to be the case.

This screenshot I got from another thread shows how it was done.

http://shadowforce.wiredhub.net/bob/2007.02.16.17.58.48.jpg

Apparently, a member of the Titan's own gang in a covert ops waited for the Titan to go outside of the shield, then smartbombed it with a micro, giving it aggro as it logged. The Titan zoomed off, and BoB probed.

There's no passive targetter there, and given that the titan was POSed up, wreck aggro doesn't look like it's involved. A painful blow and one reason why I hate spies in any sense, but it seems 'legit' as far as claims of hacking or bugs go. If it's legit morally.. well. It's effectively the same thing as what happened to Cyvok's it seems...


That's an exploit. In other words, the game is not intended to work that way, and taking advantage of the fact that it does, rather than reporting the error, is exploiting.

When you close the window, you're done. You should not be aggro-able at that instant if you aren't already. You are out of the game. The fact that your ship warps off is only there as a measure to take you out of harm's way in case of a crash. The aggro timer is only there to ensure that you can't save yourself by closing the window ONCE YOU ALREADY HAVE AGGRO. If that's how it was done, the man deserves his ship back, and CCP needs to fix the bug after admonishing some folks that exploiting bugs rather than reporting them is a no-no.

Bodark
Caldari
Wyland-Yutani Corporation
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:54:00 - [609]
 

Originally by: Mimio
Gratz, CCP dev team. You are continue winning the game.


You Sir and your Goon friends (you teach them how to exploit) are the biggest exploiters that I've EVER seen in any of the games I ever played. So go hide and stop posting lies...

Alikaraa
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:56:00 - [610]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Ivan K ([email protected])

Aries Acheron
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:56:00 - [611]
 

Originally by: bulabuba
Originally by: Aries Acheron
Well. This seems to be the case.

This screenshot I got from another thread shows how it was done.

http://shadowforce.wiredhub.net/bob/2007.02.16.17.58.48.jpg

Apparently, a member of the Titan's own gang in a covert ops waited for the Titan to go outside of the shield, then smartbombed it with a micro, giving it aggro as it logged. The Titan zoomed off, and BoB probed.

There's no passive targetter there, and given that the titan was POSed up, wreck aggro doesn't look like it's involved. A painful blow and one reason why I hate spies in any sense, but it seems 'legit' as far as claims of hacking or bugs go. If it's legit morally.. well. It's effectively the same thing as what happened to Cyvok's it seems...


That's an exploit. In other words, the game is not intended to work that way, and taking advantage of the fact that it does, rather than reporting the error, is exploiting.

When you close the window, you're done. You should not be aggro-able at that instant if you aren't already. You are out of the game. The fact that your ship warps off is only there as a measure to take you out of harm's way in case of a crash. The aggro timer is only there to ensure that you can't save yourself by closing the window ONCE YOU ALREADY HAVE AGGRO. If that's how it was done, the man deserves his ship back, and CCP needs to fix the bug after admonishing some folks that exploiting bugs rather than reporting them is a no-no.


He couldn't have closed the window yet as of that shot, since you can see the titan is still 'purple'. Every time I've lagged out or disconnected in a friendly gang, I am instantly kicked out of the gang and thus 'blue' to them. This means he was hit by a bomb before he closed the window.

bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.02.16 21:59:00 - [612]
 

Edited by: bulabuba on 16/02/2007 21:58:20
Originally by: Alikaraa

Hi, check the screenshot - the pilot is logged *in*, because he still shows in local. When you close the window, you are removed from local chat.


You can't tell anything by that. In a lagged situation there's no way to know how soon local will update. The only way it isn't an exploit is if the pilot hadn't logged off, and was actually dumb enough to drive outside the bubble AND THEN log off. I don't think anyone who has been playing the game more than a month is that dumb.

At any rate, it should be easy enough for CCP to tell from their logs whether the ship was logged out and warping off or being driven when it was aggroed. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

Aries Acheron
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:02:00 - [613]
 

Originally by: bulabuba
Originally by: Alikaraa

Hi, check the screenshot - the pilot is logged *in*, because he still shows in local. When you close the window, you are removed from local chat.


You can't tell anything by that. In a lagged situation there's no way to know how soon local will update. The only way it isn't an exploit is if the pilot hadn't logged off, and was actually dumb enough to drive outside the bubble AND THEN log off. I don't think anyone who has been playing the game more than a month is that dumb.


If it was so lagged, how could the covert pilot be able to fire off just one smartbomb shot, yet not have the module lag to turn it off?

I'm sorry. I just really don't like tinfoil. The evidence doesn't seem to be able to be explained easilly as that. Remember, the pilot of the Titan went outside the bubble to use the Capital Jump Bridge Array, so he was out there for a moment while logged in.

Faw'kin Friendly
Caldari
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:03:00 - [614]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Ivan K ([email protected])

HellSpeed
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:06:00 - [615]
 

Originally by: FGxHalsey
Don't lose heart D2, the eve community supports you. Band of Cheaters once again proves that they can't win without exploiting some sort of bug.

We will, together, remove this cancer from eve.

You don't speak for the "community" I believe ugh

La Pounania
Minmatar
Majestic Knights
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:07:00 - [616]
 

lol so cheating bob lamed another kill
next they will be able to make it respawn...
go D2 don't let this take your moral down guys

insanebe
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:07:00 - [617]
 

ships shouldn't warp out at a pos :o/

bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:09:00 - [618]
 

Originally by: Aries Acheron


If it was so lagged, how could the covert pilot be able to fire off just one smartbomb shot, yet not have the module lag to turn it off?

I'm sorry. I just really don't like tinfoil. The evidence doesn't seem to be able to be explained easilly as that. Remember, the pilot of the Titan went outside the bubble to use the Capital Jump Bridge Array, so he was out there for a moment while logged in.


So, what you're suggesting is that the pilot drove outside the bubble on purpose, was targeted and hit by one of his own gang, and instead of just turning around and driving back inside the bubble, paniced and tried to log off without even bothering to warp to a safe spot? Interesting theory. Like I said, I'm sure we'll hear the real story when D2 decides to tell it.

Aries Acheron
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:10:00 - [619]
 

Originally by: bulabuba
Originally by: Aries Acheron


If it was so lagged, how could the covert pilot be able to fire off just one smartbomb shot, yet not have the module lag to turn it off?

I'm sorry. I just really don't like tinfoil. The evidence doesn't seem to be able to be explained easilly as that. Remember, the pilot of the Titan went outside the bubble to use the Capital Jump Bridge Array, so he was out there for a moment while logged in.


So, what you're suggesting is that the pilot drove outside the bubble on purpose, was targeted and hit by one of his own gang, and instead of just turning around and driving back inside the bubble, paniced and tried to log off without even bothering to warp to a safe spot? Interesting theory. Like I said, I'm sure we'll hear the real story when D2 decides to tell it.


That's what D2 said in their own thread, then the confession of the traitor pilot. D2 went outside to summon more ships, used the bridge array, didn't notice getting aggroed, and logged off.

Flinx Evenstar
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:10:00 - [620]
 

Originally by: Faw'kin Friendly
You guys are pretty funny fighting over a ccp error whihch they wont fix b/c they dont care. You dont get do you they already have your money so why give a crap. plus witht devs and such pumping whoever full of handcaps to help them the game is ruined period. This game is dead CCP just doesnt know it yet.


I sure hope you are wrong, but if bending rules is the way to win fights, then BOB will do well in this war, as we all know, they really know how to bend rules so far, that some people would say that they broke them. (then of course a dev steps in and says it was intended that way Laughing )

Well done on the offline Titan *cough* kill...slaughter. And I hope you paid Lucent well for his "great" deed


bulabuba
Gallente
Klima Galactic
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:15:00 - [621]
 

Edited by: bulabuba on 16/02/2007 22:12:16
Originally by: Aries Acheron

That's what D2 said in their own thread, then the confession of the traitor pilot. D2 went outside to summon more ships, used the bridge array, didn't notice getting aggroed, and logged off.


Oh. Sorry, didn't read that. Like I said, I was only going on what I read in this thread. If that's the case, chalk up another one for BoB esponiage. I hope it was worth it. If D2 wasn't determined to see BoB dead and stinky before, my guess is they damn sure are now.

Ewa Quillam
Caldari
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:21:00 - [622]
 

Edited by: Ewa Quillam on 16/02/2007 22:20:05
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
Originally by: Tainos
Originally by: Ewa Quillam
If it's true that the titan sat in a pos for 3 hours and then it logged off while agressed it could mean a spy fired on him and fired on him right before he disconnected. This was stated before in the thread.



It was also stated before in the thread that you can't shoot people inside a POS. Duh.


Although I didn't test either of them, there are 2 possibilities:
- smartbombs
- target and fire at the ship from without the pos by using a passive targeter.


Looks at SS. http://shadowforce.wiredhub.net/bob/2007.02.16.17.58.48.jpg

Yea inside the pos shield...


Actually I was pretty close to it, spy + smartbomb, but apparently outside the POS shield.

Anyway, there is another with other explanations in it.

Exelsior
Gallente
Xenobytes
Stain Empire
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:24:00 - [623]
 

Now check my previous posts about saying it wasn't h4x, or that at least everyone should stfu until we found out more details. Back at the beginning of this thread.

Ok, now can people stop calling me a BoB alt just because I behave in a sensible manner, and will everyone in the 'coalition' who keeps trolling PLEASE shut up and THINK before you post? In the end you end up looking like idiots yourselves, and not BoB.

You're doing them a favour.


Sorja
Caldari
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:35:00 - [624]
 

If the the screenshot is legit, why would the cov ops pilot fire his smartbomb if he wasn't 100% sure Wotank was not in front of his keyboard anymore?

Whether it was genuine infiltration or a bought character, having a 'spy' able to be in the same gang as the flagship of D2 was HIGHLY valuable.
Firing his smartbomb and being noticed would have resulted in his immediate removal from his corp/alliance and BoB would have lost a master piece.

So I'm convinced he only fired his smartie when he was sure the Titan was not under pilot control anymore.

Whatever, this is clearly abusing game mechanics and should result in the ship replacement.
BoB don't need underhanded tactics to win, do they?

Lorth
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:41:00 - [625]
 

Originally by: Sorja
If the the screenshot is legit, why would the cov ops pilot fire his smartbomb if he wasn't 100% sure Wotank was not in front of his keyboard anymore?

Whether it was genuine infiltration or a bought character, having a 'spy' able to be in the same gang as the flagship of D2 was HIGHLY valuable.
Firing his smartbomb and being noticed would have resulted in his immediate removal from his corp/alliance and BoB would have lost a master piece.

So I'm convinced he only fired his smartie when he was sure the Titan was not under pilot control anymore.

Whatever, this is clearly abusing game mechanics and should result in the ship replacement.
BoB don't need underhanded tactics to win, do they?


Now your really going into conspericy mode now. If the pilot was logged out, the smartbomb wouldn't have restarted anouther aggro timer.

The simplest explaination goes something like this.

"Ok I'm going to log now"

Smartbomb

Dead titan.

Sorja
Caldari
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:51:00 - [626]
 

Originally by: Lorth
If the pilot was logged out, the smartbomb wouldn't have restarted anouther aggro timer.

You may be right, I'm not sure about that.
On the other hand, I'm sure that BoB always has the latest in highly specialized metagaming tactics.
They must be geniuses to find all that by themselves, props for that Rolling Eyes

DiuxDium
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:56:00 - [627]
 

Originally by: Sorja
If the the screenshot is legit, why would the cov ops pilot fire his smartbomb if he wasn't 100% sure Wotank was not in front of his keyboard anymore?

Whether it was genuine infiltration or a bought character, having a 'spy' able to be in the same gang as the flagship of D2 was HIGHLY valuable.
Firing his smartbomb and being noticed would have resulted in his immediate removal from his corp/alliance and BoB would have lost a master piece.

So I'm convinced he only fired his smartie when he was sure the Titan was not under pilot control anymore.

Whatever, this is clearly abusing game mechanics and should result in the ship replacement.
BoB don't need underhanded tactics to win, do they?


Boo Hoo, it's only ok when WE use underhanded tactics.

I was there. When D2 took out ISS pos's in EC. Guess what CHUMP. There was nothing legit about that.


Welcome to EvE. Wear a Cup.

Liet Traep
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.16 22:59:00 - [628]
 

Some people say it's sad news for D2. I think it's sad news for the entire Eve community. It could be a legitimate kill. Just good planning on BoD's part. But with recent events who knows? It's not like they're considered the most trustworthy entity in Eve right now. I personally await the day that we're in one of these threads marvelling at the loss of a BoD titan.

Caribardi
Minmatar
State Outfitters
Posted - 2007.02.16 23:09:00 - [629]
 

I begin to wonder if there will ever be a legit titan kill.

They do need to add some kind of "file has not been saved. Do you wish to save now?" type of popup warning for the aggro timer. It probably won't work any better than the timer that is supposed to be in the upper left corner but we can always hope.

Cmd Woodlouse
Minmatar
moon7empler
Ev0ke
Posted - 2007.02.16 23:24:00 - [630]
 

Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 16/02/2007 23:21:21
Originally by: Sorja
BoB don't need underhanded tactics to win, do they?


Thats the quote of the game.

Bob DO NOT need these tactics as they were most of the time better than any other alliance in this game.

I dont know why they need it.

And thats why i was questioning the real BoB progress in this game and what they really achieved.

By real means nothing.

But they could have so much w/o any of the above.


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