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Kael D'mende
Minmatar
We Come In Peace
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:00:00 - [1]
 

Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P

Moved from General Discussion and linkage added! -Suvetar

http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427

Jamirie
The Red Dragoons
Dragoon Federation
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:15:00 - [2]
 

Anyone have the link to what Tux said? I missed it Embarassed

Xeliya
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:18:00 - [3]
 

I will leave them just like they were before Kali, after kali most ships could go another 2km/s faster. Ive seen nano phoons and nano domis going faster then my crow. It is also possible to get ceptors up over 30km/s if you will use implants.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:20:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P




Ehm, so now that every other race can't have your advantage, that's a problem for you?

Monkey Spankah
hirr
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:32:00 - [5]
 

no what he is saying is that once CCP nerfs every race ship that nanos are useless were does that leave minmitar who are supose to be fast and gain thsoe speeds using nanos, the only way i see to stop this nerfign minmitar is add a bonus that cause the new negative effects of nanos and mwds to not effect minmitar ships.

Omega Man
The Geddy Foundation
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:36:00 - [6]
 

Presumably it will leave Minnies faster than the other ships being speed nerfed.

Pesadel0
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:38:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P




We will be left with our superior warfare target painting.

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:39:00 - [8]
 

This speednerf will indeed be a boost to minmatar if correctly done. Because it will make the amout of low slots less relevant on speed. Specially if tux makes nanofibers add percentage of base speed not a single value.

The only proposition i Dint liked was of makinf each nano,over and istab affect a single thing. That would make the modules as useless as the overdrive its now (really who uses them?)

Just make all speed oens affect in % (and so stack nerfed with snakes)and make agility stack nerfed.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:39:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jamirie
Anyone have the link to what Tux said? I missed it Embarassed


Dev Blog.

Aphotic Raven
Gallente
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:41:00 - [10]
 

Gallente are the lords of friggen CARGO BAYS... our pos's... our cruisers (CCP exequror wtf.. i mean we have nice ones to play with but... just... why?)

Make matar the lords of salvage, keep it to the storyline Wink

Everyone needs some lovin with the patches, in various ways.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:42:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P




Hit an run isnt broken. Nanoships are broken in that they obviate smaller ships that are supposed to hit and run.

Minmatar ships can tank like the best of them if setup to tank[7 lows on thypoon, strongest absolute shield tank in the game(while still doing damage)on the Maelstrom, same number of lows on thorax and rupture, same number of lows on Hurricane as Harbinger. Cyclone fits a nasty shield tank. Same number of lows on tempest as hyperion.

Fastest teir 3 frigate in the game has 3 mids and 3 lows allowing a good shield or armor tank.

All in all you have nothing to worry about.

Xurx
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:46:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
Speed nerf leaves Minmatar what ?


Our sexy looks Cool

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:46:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P




Hit an run isnt broken. Nanoships are broken in that they obviate smaller ships that are supposed to hit and run.

Minmatar ships can tank like the best of them if setup to tank[7 lows on thypoon, strongest absolute shield tank in the game(while still doing damage)on the Maelstrom, same number of lows on thorax and rupture, same number of lows on Hurricane as Harbinger. Cyclone fits a nasty shield tank. Same number of lows on tempest as hyperion.

Fastest teir 3 frigate in the game has 3 mids and 3 lows allowing a good shield or armor tank.

All in all you have nothing to worry about.


the resistance bonus on Caldari are far better than the booster bonus. The minmatar shield tankers have less mids than caldari and far less shield HP.

No we cannot tank as well. But speed is mostly intended to rule out distance of engagement, and not be an absolute tank.

ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:47:00 - [14]
 

Capless weapons?


Xander XacXorien
Posted - 2007.02.16 11:53:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kael D'mende
(Tux nerf)



Ehm, so now that every other race can't have your advantage, that's a problem for you?


Flame on. Twisted Evil

Erhm given that Caldari seem to have the monopoly on almost everything else, Yes.

Flame off.

Seriously though. Isn't it time a group of players had a direct input on the design and layout on ships ?

I know someone said this happens, I heard this about a year ago. If this IS the case then these people need replacing. Decisions keep coming out biased and the resultant mess is left in place for years while the players suffer.

It's not unreasonable given the time these skills take to learn (And the RL money being shelled out by customers) to expect each ship to have a role. The minmatar carrier is a classic example of design in the toilet bowl.

My other long term gripe has been the Skill Points required to maximise a ships potential. Most minmatar ships require Gunnery, Missiles and Drone skills - where as a lot of Caldari ships only require one or two skill sets.

Yet given minmatar were bad 2 years ago and they are still bad now I don't expect any movement.

Caldari FTW and I don't expect this to change. I've waited for over 2 years now.

Unfortunately it's either quit Eve or shut up.

Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:00:00 - [16]
 

I think that the point Tux was making is that they have lost any kind of balance over speed across the whole game. NanoBS are the extreme tip of the iceberg.

7km/s Domi's were never meant to be.

The trick is going to be rebalancing across the board while not taking away one of the key Minmatar racial characteristics - generally better speed than other races.

When I started EVE I picked Minmatar because of their description of being light, fast and stealthy. Stealthy is their slightly lower sig, light is in comparison to other races; we dont tank as well as others across the board our cruisers are IMO generally more fragile. We have lost our speed character.

Previous patches have slowed us down and today I don't think the differences are very notable. Again I am talking generally across the board, yes Vaga's are fast but then look at the Nano domi or Amarr inties.

Gutsani
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:01:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Capless weapons?




Well, more the bonus of using capless weapons, since you can fit em on every race of ships.

I'm more wondering that speed nerfing will nerf soloing, since with the introduction of large bubbles its really easy to camp a gate. And the only way to fight those things was the speed, nerfing it will influence that alot.

Can we get a serious HP decrease for bubbles (or some other way to get out of them without pressing ctrl+q)? Preferable give small bubbles more HP then big ones.

Patamon
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:05:00 - [18]
 

From what I have read I do not thing this will do much to nerf the frigates which are supposed to be the games speed demons. This is meant to impact Battleships and larger cruisers that where never intended to be speed monsters.

Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:12:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Ugleb on 16/02/2007 12:09:10
Originally by: Gutsani
I'm more wondering that speed nerfing will nerf soloing, since with the introduction of large bubbles its really easy to camp a gate. And the only way to fight those things was the speed, nerfing it will influence that alot.

Can we get a serious HP decrease for bubbles (or some other way to get out of them without pressing ctrl+q)? Preferable give small bubbles more HP then big ones.


The problem with this is that bubbles are quite expensive, you don't want a situation where they just pop so easily that no-one can afford to use them. Also bubbles can take a long time to setup and unanchor; around 8 minutes for large I think so its not as if they can just be dropped at a whim. And once they are down you have to protect them as you cant just scoop and leg it.

Gutsani
Chaos Reborn
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:20:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ugleb

The problem with this is that bubbles are quite expensive, you don't want a situation where they just pop so easily that no-one can afford to use them. Also bubbles can take a long time to setup and unanchor; around 8 minutes for large I think so its not as if they can just be dropped at a whim. And once they are down you have to protect them as you cant just scoop and leg it.


But if your gonna solo, your not gonna know whats on the other side of every gate, you can expect where the bubbles will be, but you can never be 100% sure if you dont have a covert ops alt. Even if they take 8 minutes to put online, there should be a way to get out of them without logging off.

Maybe a better idea to not make em scramble you but reduce your agility? Ea, not able to speed up and warp away so fast, but not make em web you (speed to get back to the gate if possible).

smallgreenblur
Minmatar
Irrepressible Mirth
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:22:00 - [21]
 

Off the top of my head we get weapons that don't use cap and have some versitility in choice of damage type, excellent dps whilst still tanking, and versitility. It's not all perfect but I'm happy, especially when people keep trying to agro my maelstrom.

sgb

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.02.16 12:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P

Moved from General Discussion and linkage added! -Suvetar

http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427


It isn't broke. It is useful. And it isn't getting nerfed.

Kael D'mende
Minmatar
We Come In Peace
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:18:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P




Ehm, so now that every other race can't have your advantage, that's a problem for you?


huh?, no what i was saying is that most minmatar ships dont do anything good, so most setups use speed tanks, and with the nerf to said mods, that will fall away, so we'r left with useless ships. Or atleast ships that have better counterparts.


Kael D'mende
Minmatar
We Come In Peace
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:22:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Pesadel0
Originally by: Kael D'mende
Ok, so i read the golden words of Tux, but besides all the amarr that are jumping up and down, what about races like Minmatar that has the role of hit and run ?
Seriously aint it time to drop the broken role for minmatar and find something that is actually usefull ?

anyway just felt like whining abit :P




We will be left with our superior warfare target painting.


lol, ohh ya forgot about our secret weapon of d00m heh


Kael D'mende
Minmatar
We Come In Peace
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:23:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Capless weapons?




ohh please!


Kael D'mende
Minmatar
We Come In Peace
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:25:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Kael D''mende on 16/02/2007 14:24:52
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
Unfortunately it's either quit Eve or shut up.


Just sad it have to be this way :O( and ya im on the over 2 year wagon aswell.. Bring out your dead... ding ding...


Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:29:00 - [27]
 

The nerf on the MWD is bet thing to happen to minmatar in a long long time!! Our native speed advantage will be more meaningfull since much less ships will be using MWD!

Our signature will mean sometyhing, since we wont NEED to have an MWD in our ships to catch even a hauler...

Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr
Sp00t
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:39:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
The only proposition i Dint liked was of makinf each nano,over and istab affect a single thing. That would make the modules as useless as the overdrive its now (really who uses them?)



The reason Overdrives aren't used isn't because they only affect one stat, it's because nanos affect two. If you take away the nanos' multiple effects, bam people have to decide whether they want top speed (overdrives), agility(nanos), or MWD/AB efficiency(istabs).

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:43:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon

the resistance bonus on Caldari are far better than the booster bonus. The minmatar shield tankers have less mids than caldari and far less shield HP.

No we cannot tank as well. But speed is mostly intended to rule out distance of engagement, and not be an absolute tank.


Nope. False, try again.


Resistance bonus is:

lv 1: 5.26% effective rep amount and HP boost
lv 2: 11.1% " "
lv 3: 17.64% " "
lv 4: 25% " "
lv 5: 33.33% " "

Boost amount bonus is:

Lv 1: 7.5% rep amount
lv 2: 15% " "
lv 3: 22.5% " "
lv 4: 30% " "
lv 5: 37.5% " "

The resistance bonus has an increasing return, and the rep amount bonus a linear return. The resistance bonus also effectivly boosts HP buffer and passive regen. The boost amount is stronger in absolute terms and stronger at lower skill levels. Many times by clear margins.

This means that even at level 5 ship skill, the maelstrom has the strongest absolute tank in the game. Especialy since boost amp IIs were brought in boosting shield boosting efficiency and quality.

Stutka Driver
Stutka's Black Flag
Posted - 2007.02.16 14:54:00 - [30]
 

Change keeps things fresh and interesting, and it keeps the market from stagnating. Never will everyone be happy with the direction taken. I trust that the same people that created my favorite MMOG have the vision and the ingenuity to keep EVE on it's feet and please most of the community most of the time. My current PVP ship relies on speed, but it's not a battle ship. I'm confident that even with the changes my ship will still be RELATIVELY faster than most. Players whith skill sets that are very narrowly specialized will always be vulnerable to change, but that's just like real life.


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