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Joeh
Posted - 2003.12.17 16:09:00 - [151]
 

Well done on making eve more realistic.

Not only is omber now not avaliable where all my cans are... i would have to go to the neighbouring system to get them.

And when your blackbird gets destroyed in 25 seconds while warping out, by 8 npc's including serpentis soldiers who dewarp 3km off your ship, its not really worth going there, is it?

I wasn't going for a solo mining run in 0.0 space, just looking to get some simple omber in 0.4 system. Why is it that all the minerals can now only be found in lower security systems.... and those systems now have bands of npcs than can destroy an escaping cruiser in 25 seconds?

If I had been stupid and lost my ship that way.... i wouldnt have been ****ed off and just would have bought another one. But when its like this it just leaves a sour taste in your mouth. 3 cruisers destroyed in 3 weeks... 2 due to bugs, and now this.

*rant over

Morfhman
Posted - 2003.12.17 18:09:00 - [152]
 

Now the pach is out and i see som good things and some wery bad.
But i like to talk about 1 thing that im not happy about that is no more solo mining for me.
First i cant do mining in 0,4ss syst and lower becous of cruser rats.Crying or Very sad
And also i some times have to truck all i mine my self and ther is the big problem.
In number of times i could save my ass by puting a book mark to come close to contaner from warp becous like we all know indys cant proteckt them self from enemy fier and i was hoping to see that chance by castor pach but no.They had to make the closest warp to 20km away so by the time i reach contaner my indy is no more becous npc rats blown it up.Sad
Now what can i do?
Im in a corp yes but they arent always online on the same time so the only thing i can do is stay docked till somone shows up to help me.
i have traned to be a good miner and now i cant use that skill to mine for my selfMad
Ok i want to keep on playing but its no funn any more i dont see the profit if i need to buy backup whil trucking my ore to baceMad
Well i hope they at ccp will give us solo miners the chance of warping to contaner as close as we can so we can keep our work whit out losing the trucks to npc rats.
Plzzz give us back warping to contaner as close as we can:

Khar'du
Posted - 2003.12.18 19:26:00 - [153]
 

OK, i got a bug for you ppl. Dunno if anyone saw it already but i cant find it so ill post it here as well.

All my named cap rechargers (eutectic II, barton, name any) now show a recharge rate bonus of 10% only.

The eutectic used to show 11.6% i think.

So what's up with that ?

White Tiger
Caldari
Tactical Advisory Group
Posted - 2003.12.19 04:08:00 - [154]
 

Kar'du...You are not the only one...It seems that almost all the "named" items have been reduced to basic levels...I have gobs of (formerly useless) items like partial and alpha hull mods that, before they bent over the Blackbird, I had planned on using but now they are all DEFINITELY useless.

I asked someone on the Help channel why they skewered the Blackbird and their reason was because "the Blackbird is a Missile Boat"...WTF? I thought, according to the description at least, that the Blackbird was a COMBAT SUPPORT craft that avoided direct confrontation. Now it can't even get out of it's own way let alone outrun a pesky frigate or six...

Now...Three of my corp members are talking about quiting because Omber and Kernite can only be found in 0.4 systems and lower. This would not have normally presented a problem to them except for the fact that Gate Camping has been Proven possible in these systems. With the AB and MWD "nerf" we do not have the speed to run a "blockade" manned by three Apocs at 50km from the gate, especially when the gates guns don't do squat when they fire at you...Oh well...I am gonna stick it out for a bit; I LIKED the patch until today but eye candy alone is not gonna keep people playing this game...

Sebastian Cain
Caldari
Tactical Advisory Group
Posted - 2003.12.19 09:00:00 - [155]
 

Since I'm one of the ones White Tiger is talking about, it shouldn't surprise anyone that I agree with him whole-heartedly.

I'm sure some things were improved by the patch. Some of the visuals, the scanner display, the tabs on the ship control for cargo, drones, etc. However, all of that is minor. The aspects of the game that have taken a huge turn for the worse are major, and affect gameplay for each and every one of us who espouse a style of gameplay that does not involve camping on jumpgates with battleships and podding all comers.

Fact: Access to 0.0 space, where the vast majority of rare-element rich ores can be found, is severely limited. These bottlenecks are almost always occupied by players who either extort a "toll" from people wanting to use the gate, or simply kill them and their ships. Until recently it was possible to use fast cruisers, such as the Blackbird and the Stabber, to run these "blockades", getting to the 11km jump threshold from the warp exit point before the gate campers could lock on and/or inflict enough damage to kill the ship.

Now we've been dealt a double whammy. Not only has one of the most capable light cruiser designs been reduced in speed and maneuverability to the point where it's slower than some heavy cruisers, but the jump threshold for gates has been cut from 11km down to 2km. Even given that the lock times for large ships are supposed to have been increased significantly, that leaves players worse off than before. Not only do they have farther to travel, but they have to do it in a slower ship. Folks, it doesn't matter a damn' whether you increase the lock times for battleships, one cannot cross the 18km between the closest warp exit and the jump threshold in a gate fast enough to avoid getting killed without the tools that have been taken away from us by the patch.

But that's not all. The overall reduction in system security ratings has allowed player-pirates to camp on gates that until recently were off-limits to them. Concord and the Navy won't respond, because the systems are now below 0.5 sec rating, and the AI defenses won't automatically engage the pirates either if they initiate aggressive action. So all that's been done is to make the game even less playable by limiting even more the mobility of individual players. Taken together with the increased risks involved in attempting to reach a "camped" gate with a down-rated cruiser, this is pretty much an invitation to commit virtual suicide every time you leave a system.

But we can't just stick in our own systems, because we now have to run agent missions in order to keep our faction standing. And many of these agent missions take us through space that's now prime real-estate for gate-campers and battleship bullies. So now we have no choice but to get podded every time we undock, because the game itself will punish us if we don't take missions. And if we fail the mission for some reason we take a hit in our faction rating, so it's even more vital that we try and run the blockades at the jumpgates...except for that little problem that the only ships we have eft that will make it to the jumpgate fast enough blow (frigates) up if a battleship even looks at them and can't mount half the defensive countermeasures that a cruiser can...but the cruisers we used to use are now so slow that all the ECM/jamming in the world won't keep them from bring blown up.

So to sum up: If I stay in-system and mine rocks, I lose because my faction standing and security rating bottom out. If I take agent missions or try to hunt like I used to I lose because I get podded while trying to make it to the jumpgate before a battleship gets a lock and drops a small planet on me. This is called a lose-lose situation. I stand to gain nothing by logging on, except the pleasure of chatting with my friends and the eye-candy of the visuals. I can chat elsewhere, and if I want visuals I can always download some Hubble images and post them to my desktop...or have a print shop do them up in poster size for my walls.

In the mean time I'm paying money for all this. Not much, mind you, but it's still money I've worked hard for.

Sorry CCP...you created something in EVE that had huge potential and promise, but unless you correct some of the glaring mistakes you've includen in your latest "upgrade", I've got better things to spend my time and money on.

You have until Jan 1 2004 to address this issue. After that I will close my account and cancel my subscription. Not without a good deal of regrets, mind you...I've put a lot of time into Sebastian Cain, and I've been on EVE from the time it hit the shelves. But I'm getting the feeling that you folks at CCP aren't interested in what the players are saying. This patch is proof of that.

- Sebastian Cain
founding member, Tactical Advisory Group on
EVE

Ceribus
Posted - 2003.12.19 09:48:00 - [156]
 

well i would have to say that as a resercher in eve im not at all impressed with the so called reserch upgrades. i have had this game for like 4 or 5 months now and i set my guy up as a resercher . i was very excited by the upcoming patch but no one informed me till a short time until the patch was suppost to come out that once again everything that is worth having or needed for a resercher was going to be put out by the stupid agents. i mean come on guys...you cant use the agents to put out everything because some of us dont have the time to spend half the month to get your agent standings up to whatever is needed to just get the skills to use a new kind of agent. most of my friends have already stopped playing eve and if i cant play my char like he was made to do then i see no reason to keep playing. really who has time to spend another few months to get another decent char. you guys should have thought of a better way to distibute the new items so it wasnt just for a certin class of people...the agent mongers...or at least make it possiable for someone who has maxed science skills to get the science stuff.

Vordicae
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.12.19 18:55:00 - [157]
 

anyone else having the issue where you swap between ships but keep getting error messages every attempt.. the same when you are trying to undock ?

makes fitting and swappping ships from Indy to miner to fighter really difficult and Sloooow when the new harder rats are beating your mate up in the roid fields

Sebastian Cain
Caldari
Tactical Advisory Group
Posted - 2003.12.19 23:48:00 - [158]
 

One thing that was brought up in a discussion on another forum by some friends of mine:

With the new time-sensitive faction standings and the requirement that players constantly work to maintain or improve those standings, CCP has essentially sidelined the part-time "casual" player. Unless you are able to devote a good portion - several hours - every single day to playing EVE and running missions, there is simply no way to maintain your faction standings, let alone improve them. Your character will be marginalised and rendered ineffective because his standings are dropping faster than you can build them up.

Essentially what CCP is saying, intentionally or unintentionally, is that unless you are willing to play EVE full-time, they're not interested in your contributions. I have a job that keeps me out in the field ten or more hours a day. When I get home (usually at some decidedly un-blessed hour) I may have time for an hour or two of EVE, but only if I blow off household chores and other neccessary aspects of my life. My hardcore (if you can call it that) EVE time is on my days off, and I cannot usually spend more than a day per week on the game even then. Before the patch I was able to maintain at least marginally decent faction and security ratings. Now I don't even bother, since the time needed to maintain or even improve those ratings would require me to quit my job and devote myself to playing EVE full-time.

There's simply no choice here, people. A game, any game, is not worth that. I've worked hard and been through a lot to be able to do the work I do now. The privilege and responsibility that comes with that work is worth more than EVE ever will be. While the game was an entertaining casual pass-time I could play it. But make no mistake, CCP, as promising and entertaining as this game is, it's not my life.

I really hope someone from CCP is reading this. There have been many valid points brought up in this thread that need to be addressed immediately if EVE is to survive as a serious contender in the MMORPG field. If they are not addressed, then EVE will die. Period. Without the massive server network to support it, which will not be made available if EVE falls out of the mainstream, there simply will not be an EVE. And that would be a shame, and a disservice to all the players who have devoted their time to entering the universe of EVE and trying to make something of it.

-Sebastian Cain
Founding member, Tactical Advisory Group on EVE

Street
Posted - 2003.12.21 09:38:00 - [159]
 

1. I defy anyone to name one thing you absolutely cannot do without doing agent missions.... You *can* research with out doing missions or having a good standing (your skills are the biggest factor).... you can get BPs without researching (*buy* them).... You can still mine - Scordite in secure space is 80% as profitable as Omber.... Agent missions provide a reward. If your complaining that you have to do missions to get the reward, that implies you'd rather someone just hand it to you on a silver platter.

2. I've had no problems with traveling speed. After adjusting my configuration, I travel at about 90 seconds a jump - even with an indy. An indy can fit multiple 1MN microwarps now. PS- Traveling is part of the game. It wouldn't be much of a game if we just teleported our ships from station to station, would it?

3. It is alot more dangerous in low sec space now.... so what? Yes, not everyone wants to fight NPCs or PCs, but they have the choice of staying in safe space. If you want to be safe and secure, just assume the universe ends at .5 space. It's a risk/reward tradeoff. Is it so wrong that the ones who take the risk make a little more cash?

4. For you trader types.... if travel is, as you say, more difficult, then market prices will eventually reflect that.... if it's not worth it, no one will do it; price imbalances will rise; enventually, the imbalance will create enough profit for it to be worth it again.

5. The flexible NPC demand and the market decimal system will create alot more demand for hauling and distributing minerals than we saw before.... you market players should be *drooling*.

EVE is envisioned as a game to be played for years (only 7 more years to max out my character!). That wasn't going to happen in the pre-Castor system. The major complaints were 1) The Market is broken (ie everything was too easy to make/get/do resulting in deflation) and 2) There's not enough depth (ie it was too quick and simple to accomplish things). 3) Corps aren't useful enough (ie no big advantages over adhoc groups). I think Castor addresses all 3 issues well.

<Venting Complete>

Street
Ad Astra

White Tiger
Caldari
Tactical Advisory Group
Posted - 2003.12.21 12:42:00 - [160]
 

Quote:
1. I defy anyone to name one thing you absolutely cannot do without doing agent missions.... You *can* research with out doing missions or having a good standing (your skills are the biggest factor).... you can get BPs without researching (*buy* them).... You can still mine - Scordite in secure space is 80% as profitable as Omber.... Agent missions provide a reward. If your complaining that you have to do missions to get the reward, that implies you'd rather someone just hand it to you on a silver platter.


Silver platter? Hardly. But in the past our hard work was profitable. Sure Scordite may very well be 80% as profitable as Omber (check your figures, I think you are wrong) but the NPC market is not buying at the same levels as the Pre-castor market. If we choose to sell to PCs then that means we have to work twice as hard because the PCs only pay half as much. Without the income your argument that we can just buy the BPs is moot.

Quote:
2. I've had no problems with traveling speed. After adjusting my configuration, I travel at about 90 seconds a jump - even with an indy. An indy can fit multiple 1MN microwarps now. PS- Traveling is part of the game. It wouldn't be much of a game if we just teleported our ships from station to station, would it?


True...Without the travel it wouldn't be much of a game but at the moment you are enjoying a grace period with all those MWDs mounted on your Indy. Currently the "Gate Guards" are absent from the 0.7-0.1 systems, but when they come back they will come back with a vengeance.
Missiles and MWDs now play a much bigger part in the NPC pirate TO&E and 90 seconds is an awfully long time...

Quote:
3. It is alot more dangerous in low sec space now.... so what? Yes, not everyone wants to fight NPCs or PCs, but they have the choice of staying in safe space. If you want to be safe and secure, just assume the universe ends at .5 space. It's a risk/reward tradeoff. Is it so wrong that the ones who take the risk make a little more cash?


No it is not wrong for the ones to take the risk to make a little more cash. What IS wrong is to limit the number of people who can take the risk. Pre-Castor my seven man corp was able to arrange mining expeditions in 0.0 and have a reasonable level of success at it; Enough to for us to maintain our WEPSLocker, ships, etc. Now Post-Castor we do not have that opportunity. The NPCs are so strong that even Large Battelship only expeditions are having difficulty just breaking even let alone making a profit. Many of the Big Corps (40 players +) have moved into Empire space and are mining the minerals that you say we should go after. As my partner stated it is pretty much a lose-lose situation for the small corps/Individuals who play this game on a casual basis.

Quote:

4. For you trader types.... if travel is, as you say, more difficult, then market prices will eventually reflect that.... if it's not worth it, no one will do it; price imbalances will rise; enventually, the imbalance will create enough profit for it to be worth it again.

5. The flexible NPC demand and the market decimal system will create alot more demand for hauling and distributing minerals than we saw before.... you market players should be *drooling*.


I already covered this but I will say it again. The NPC market does not buy at the same rate as it did pre-castor. The only thing the decimal system has done is allow the PC buyers to buy for fractions of an ISK instead of being "forced" to buy using whole numbers. Why buy Tritanium for 1 isk if you can get sellers to take your 1/2 isk offer price?

Quote:
EVE is envisioned as a game to be played for years (only 7 more years to max out my character!). That wasn't going to happen in the pre-Castor system. The major complaints were 1) The Market is broken (ie everything was too easy to make/get/do resulting in deflation) and 2) There's not enough depth (ie it was too quick and simple to accomplish things). 3) Corps aren't useful enough (ie no big advantages over adhoc groups). I think Castor addresses all 3 issues well.


You are right...Eve is designed to be played for years but if the players no longer show up because of the extreme difficulty they now face, the game won't even last another year.


Street
Posted - 2003.12.22 00:44:00 - [161]
 

Some good points. Let me address each of them:

1. Mineral prices: As the price of nearly everything is based off mineral prices, if there is a widespread drop, it will eventually cause a widespread deflation - the cost of the things you want will drop as well. In the long-term, your buying power will should stay roughly the same. I'm not convinced there will be a collapse in mineral prices as there has not been a significant decline yet and volumes have been steady - in some places, I've seen small increases.

BTW- Scordite has a book value of 43.7/m3. Omber has a book price of 56/m3. Since mining is based on volume/minute, you get 78% of the same value for Scordite as you would Omber - assuming Isogen is selling at book.

2. NPC Pirates: I concede your point about 0.0, though I've been okay with a lone Cruiser in 0.2. I did hear that the pirates are spawning in greater numbers than CCP wanted them to, so I think they just overshot and will balance it out.

3. BP Prices: As mentioned above, buying power should be consistent in the long-term. If no one is buying BPs because their income deflates, the costs will drop until supply meets demand. With the new research system, CCP can maintain control over BP prices by regulating the supply they release to the market.

Street
Ad Astra

White Tiger
Caldari
Tactical Advisory Group
Posted - 2003.12.22 17:40:00 - [162]
 

Street...

I don't know what the "book" values are for ore so the only thing I have to go on is the records I have kept while mining. To whit:

Mining alone in the system we made our "Home" (using a Battleship with 6 miner 2s) I could mine enough scordite to provide 3mil units of Pyerite. At a market value of 4isk per unit that would give me 12mil isk. In the same time frame, and by carefully farming the rocks, I could mine enough Omber and kernite to provide 500K of Isogen. At full market value that gave me 32mil isk.


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