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DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.02.07 10:24:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: DB Preacher on 07/02/2007 10:24:43
I'm talking on all sides Thor. BoB weren't the first to do it but BoB certainly haven't managed to do anything to allieviate it. I don't think that we have pushed it though.

The lines drawn in the sand hadn't moved for a looooong time and everything seemed pretty straightforward.

This isn't about pointing fingers, it's merely a comment on the general degradation of what was for a long time, a very strong community.

Some people will care, others will simply mock and laugh and it will continue along the same lines as it is now.

Originally by: Malachon Draco

Seems indeed that a line has been crossed, only question is, when did we cross it? Did we cross 10 months ago, or was it 4 or was it just with recent events? Opinions differ I think, and also the perception of who crossed the line first.



I have a strong opinion on when it began. I'm sure you could trace it back and see the first real big clash of rl and ig but I'd rather not discuss it on these boards.

Anyway, these musings are for a different thread.

Back on topic, the avatar should be something to be valued by all of eve as it is player based customisation in eve. I look forward to seeing all alliances and corporations achieving something individual that is marked in eve.

dbp

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.02.07 10:31:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Thor Xian
There is a significant number of people that think the majority of BoB (or perhaps just the ones above the rank Meat Shield) already has gone to that point.


Thats the irony of the situation. We most definitely are no where even close to that point.



I'm sorry Blacklight, but that is not for you to decide.

If the rest of Eve thinks you crossed the line, then that is the reality you have to deal with.

Even if just 1 guy thinks you crossed the line and decides he will act on that, that is the reality you have to deal with.

A Pandora's box has been opened, and it might get a lot worse, regardless what you, me or anyone else thinks about that.

Rod Blaine
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.02.07 10:58:00 - [93]
 

So now BoB is resposible for the fact that someone took some alt seriously whent he alt accused BoB of hacking their ts or something ?

Speak for yourself m8, that's utter rubbish imo.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.02.07 11:07:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Rod Blaine
So now BoB is resposible for the fact that someone took some alt seriously whent he alt accused BoB of hacking their ts or something ?

Speak for yourself m8, that's utter rubbish imo.



This has nothing to do with me assigning responsibility to anyone for anything Rod, don't put words in my mouth.


If you want me to spell it out for you:

1. A lot of things have happened over the past year, several of which have been close to the 'line', at least to the minds of some people. If you want examples, think Goonwar, think ASCN/BoB conflict and the most recent event which we may not mention. You can fill in the details I'm sure, no need to rehash them.

2. I am not saying any of them crossed the line, or that any of them didn't cross the line.

3. However I am saying that in the perception of some people, each of these events crossed the line.

4. As a result of '3', a Pandora's box has been opened, and it could get very very ugly.

5. Even though the people involved in the events mentioned in '1' may not think they crossed the line, that is irrelevant. Perception is all that matters here, and the perception of some people is that the line has been crossed and that from now on 'anything goes'.


Whether you/BoB feel responsible for any of it, is your decision. For what happens next, it probably doesn't matter whether you feel responsible or not, its gonna happen anyway.

What is going to happen next? I don't know. But I think its gonna be ugly.

dalman
Caldari
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.07 12:02:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Maybe you should start looking at it from an rp sense than a real world sense and the answer will become blatantly clear.

For a long time in eve, the players of this game have managed to separate rl from ig but I fear that right now, the userbase is travelling down a path where everything about this game is real life.

And that's a scary place to be.

Yep.

From a rp sense, yes this is an important event. And I fully support the idea of permanent titan wrecks. And yes I also fully support more player input to the eve world.
But from a rp sense, surely there's been other events at least as important?
And from a rp sense, who has built this monument saying it's the ascn titan that bob destroyed? You? ASCN? Concord? Mr X who just got out of the art-school?

And my view is that a situation where one dev (or be it a team of 5 devs, the whole of CCP, or whatever), is to sit down and judge "ok, this was an important event - let's make a monument with a text like this" or "nah, I don't really think this was an important event", then we have truely gone down the wrong road.
And this opinion of mine have absolutely zero to do with that it's BoB/ASCN here nor the "band of developers thing".

I'd rather see that the devs:
* sort so that things such as this - the destruction of a titan - automaticly results in a generic permanent wreck. That's one way we'd enable players to 'change the game-world'.
* think hard about how players could modify the world as they see fit. Atm we have outposts and that's it. (well, I know they do already, but anyway)

DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2007.02.07 12:12:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: dalman
I'd rather see that the devs:
* sort so that things such as this - the destruction of a titan - automaticly results in a generic permanent wreck. That's one way we'd enable players to 'change the game-world'.
* think hard about how players could modify the world as they see fit. Atm we have outposts and that's it. (well, I know they do already, but anyway)


Dalman, Oveur said in a sweeping statement on Evetv that he wanted titan wrecks to be left as a monument. This was before we blew up ASCN's.

Furthermore, he simply said "titan wrecks" in general, no specifics. I presume further titan wrecks will also be left in place due to the nature of them and the difficulty in getting one.

Finally, I think that this is a step into bigger customisation, one which has began a while back and will hopefully continue into the future. However, you are simply stating the negative side of this and not looking to the positive side.

If peeps complain loud enough simply because it's BoB that did it first then why the heck should CCP listen to the whiners in future when they ask for cool stuff?

If it had been the other way round or someone else had achieved it first, everyone (except maybe the dude who lost it) would have been just as proud as the guys who killed it to go see the wreck.

The very fact that CYVOK said this was a good thing earlier in the thread is a positive light.

ASCN has a permanent marker on the map.

All sides are happy. I only see those that hate BoB complaining about it here.

dbp

Patch86
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.02.07 12:29:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Patch86 on 07/02/2007 12:49:14
Living proof as to CCP's awesomeness Cool

Incidentally, I'm of the opinion that all Titan wrecks should be made permanent, not just the first. They're extremely expensive, almost impossible to kill (using regular techniques, atleast) supposedly the size of a space station (where exactly do you think all that metal and super-structure will go?), and there are 5000 odd star systems in EVE, most of which are empty and uninteresting. The odds of Titan deaths becoming an every day occurrence is nil to none, and frankly I'd like to see the space lanes become populated with the debris of massive battles. In RL, there are literally thousands of "historic battle sites" a tourist can visit, theres no reason why EVE should be different. If LV lost their Titan tomorrow, and D2 next month, I'd love to see two more festering wrecks left to commemorate the gargantuan ships.

dalman
Caldari
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.07 12:38:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Dalman, Oveur said in a sweeping statement on Evetv that he wanted titan wrecks to be left as a monument. This was before we blew up ASCN's.

Furthermore, he simply said "titan wrecks" in general, no specifics. I presume further titan wrecks will also be left in place due to the nature of them and the difficulty in getting one.

Yes yes, I know. Someone put forth a thread on the forum with this suggestion, making the devs and all players go "oh that's great".

And some weeks later we got new threads - "lolz, cyvok lost his titan, the devs better hurry up with the wrecks idea".

Originally by: DB Preacher
If peeps complain loud enough simply because it's BoB that did it first then why the heck should CCP listen to the whiners in future when they ask for cool stuff?

Say you go vote in your country. One party wants to lower the taxes. One party does not. You vote for the later, but the first wins the election. Should they then lower the taxes for specificly the persons who voted on them, but leave the taxes for you and the persons who did not vote on them?
Or what exactly is it that you are suggesting in this quote? :s

Originally by: DB Preacher
All sides are happy. I only see those that hate BoB complaining about it here.

Rest assured that I would complain about it no matter who it was (could have been reds vs LV for example), for the reasons I've said.Cool

Skooney
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.07 21:31:00 - [99]
 

Personally I believe the wreck should be permanent, and that it should have names attached to it, along with an EVE Date on it. It is a piece of EVE history, of which who can deny they did not read the forum post when ASCN lost the Titan.

In the interim BoB controls the space in which this wreck/monument lies, but what about the future? As Alliances come and go, as the landscape changes, BoB may not always lay claim to this piece of space, that being said, wouldn’t it be nice for new players to EVE, to be able to see what happened in the historic war of ASCN vs BoB. More over a new alliance to lay claim to this monument?

I think so.

Titans are massive undertaking, any that are destroyed should be a monument, with names and personally a date.

Some food for thought, no matter if you like it or not, this is a BIG DEAL in EVE, or why else would there be 4 pages of opinions on the matter?

Lynelle
Gallente
Eve Defence Force
Resurgency
Posted - 2007.02.07 21:46:00 - [100]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Ivan K([email protected])

Thor Xian
Caldari
Rebirth.
THE GOD SQUAD
Posted - 2007.02.07 21:48:00 - [101]
 

I think Motherships should also get the monumental treatment. They arent a whole lot easier to build than Titans, just quicker and less expensive.

Thor Xian
Caldari
Rebirth.
THE GOD SQUAD
Posted - 2007.02.07 21:52:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Thor Xian
There is a significant number of people that think the majority of BoB (or perhaps just the ones above the rank Meat Shield) already has gone to that point.


Thats the irony of the situation. We most definitely are no where even close to that point.



I'm sorry Blacklight, but that is not for you to decide.

If the rest of Eve thinks you crossed the line, then that is the reality you have to deal with.

Even if just 1 guy thinks you crossed the line and decides he will act on that, that is the reality you have to deal with.

A Pandora's box has been opened, and it might get a lot worse, regardless what you, me or anyone else thinks about that.


In all fairness, it will just add to the enigma of the BoB war machine, not take away from it. Propoganda is all about perception.

Matori Kar
Caldari
SlightlyAnnoyingGitCorp
Posted - 2007.02.07 22:18:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Matori Kar on 07/02/2007 22:19:50
Edited by: Matori Kar on 07/02/2007 22:15:36
RP, lols.... so how many crew in a titan? .. thousands, tens of thousands? and they just sat there and let you kill them....nothing RP about that is there? Rolling Eyes

Congrats, BoB killed an afk/logged ship...a freaking big one I admit...but still not exactly stunning is it? Probably won you the war far quicker, but then I doubt there was ever going to be any other outcome Smile

Edit: Eeek, ME BAD, NOT IN A CORP.....runs off to form one, oops Shocked

Edit2: OMG 33 mins to learn skill Razz

shldrinj
Amarr
Fix Holding Company
Posted - 2007.02.08 05:12:00 - [104]
 

*snip* Posting with an unidentified character and characters in NPC corporations in this forum is prohibited. If you wish to participate in the discussions here, be sure to have your corporation and or alliance status ticked in your forum settings. -Ivan K ([email protected])

James Snowscoran
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.02.08 19:22:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Matori Kar
Edited by: Matori Kar on 07/02/2007 22:19:50
Edited by: Matori Kar on 07/02/2007 22:15:36
RP, lols.... so how many crew in a titan? .. thousands, tens of thousands? and they just sat there and let you kill them....nothing RP about that is there? Rolling Eyes

Congrats, BoB killed an afk/logged ship...a freaking big one I admit...but still not exactly stunning is it? Probably won you the war far quicker, but then I doubt there was ever going to be any other outcome Smile

Edit: Eeek, ME BAD, NOT IN A CORP.....runs off to form one, oops Shocked

Edit2: OMG 33 mins to learn skill Razz


Hundreds of thousands, probably.

Considering that battleships have 5-6000...

But that makes all of us mass murderers anyway. As Stalin said, one man is a tragedy, a million men is just numbers...

hitech redneck
Gallente
Digital Mind Crimes
Posted - 2007.02.08 19:32:00 - [106]
 

I think when items are made be it a outpost or any mode it should be stamped with the person and corp/ allence that made it. When i played another game it was funny to see where your handy work ended.

Admentus Cor'vion
Caldari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.02.08 23:22:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: dalman
I seriously dislike the description.
No names at all please.


Not only because of the way it was destroyed (from my point of view no titan has been killed but one has hit self-destruct).

But more because stories should be folk-lore.

Just give us a wreck without any description.


I think the game is going to be lead mainly by playerbase, which I like. I believe this is a step in the right direction that players actually effect NPC's / Game Mechanics, etc, and it's just an extension of the onward progress of eve.

Rennard
Amarr
Aku Soku Zan
Posted - 2007.02.09 01:18:00 - [108]
 

I still think LOGOFFSKI doesn't need a monument. Everyone who passes that system will not say:

"Oh what an achievement and succession it was"

instead they'll say:

"Oh what an noobiness that CYVOK did, lol"

IntegralHellsing
Gallente
Privateers Of Virtue
Vicious OuTLaW
Posted - 2007.02.09 07:41:00 - [109]
 

me: hmmm, i'd like to go see the titan wreck ^_^
(me jumps, sees bob blob gang.)
bob: giev us 100m and we'll let you see the titan wreck!
(me pays and warps to titan wreck.)

after 5 seconds...
bob: now you've seen it, get lost!
(bob puts dictor bubble up, pods me back to station.)

that MIGHT happen.Laughing

HordeZla
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.02.09 12:31:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: CYVOK
That is REALLY cool!!

Myself and ASCN imortalized in New Eden forever. My work here is done.

Thx CCP.

-CYVOK-


Cyvok trying to claim victory from the jaws of defete again?

Some might say its an honour I would be ashamed of a constant reminder of not understanding game mechanics.

jhtgjhvfhjfg
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2007.02.09 12:33:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: IntegralHellsing
me: hmmm, i'd like to go see the titan wreck ^_^
(me jumps, sees bob blob gang.)
bob: giev us 100m and we'll let you see the titan wreck!
(me pays and warps to titan wreck.)

after 5 seconds...
bob: now you've seen it, get lost!
(bob puts dictor bubble up, pods me back to station.)

that MIGHT happen.Laughing


Did you read the BoB blob on the forums?

Mabey you should stop reading them you donkey.

Maxus Cynus
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2007.02.09 12:38:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: HordeZla
Originally by: CYVOK
That is REALLY cool!!

Myself and ASCN imortalized in New Eden forever. My work here is done.

Thx CCP.

-CYVOK-


Cyvok trying to claim victory from the jaws of defete again?

Some might say its an honour I would be ashamed of a constant reminder of not understanding game mechanics.
You are referring to the game mechanics that were changed just days later and had been introduced a couple days earlier?

SwitchBl4d3
Minmatar
Heretic Army
Posted - 2007.02.09 13:12:00 - [113]
 

they failed in the Desc to put it was piloted by an utter n00b.

I mean come one this was the guy who's brainchild setup was a railgun crow in the final of an alliance tourny.

hmm, did it have a large cl-5 shield booster and small t1 ions on the setup when it died rofl

Rule2k
Caldari
Annihilative Intention.
Red Republic
Posted - 2007.02.09 13:57:00 - [114]
 

[]_ (o) []_

dalman
Caldari
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.02.09 16:39:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Maxus Cynus
You are referring to the game mechanics that were changed just days later and had been introduced a couple days earlier?

And exactly what change is that?

Aggro timer has always worked the same since it was introduced:

* Once agressed, you have a 15 min timer.

* If you log during this timer, the timer resets and start at 15 min again.

This is the way it's always been since the aggro timer was introduced. If someone flying a Titan doesn't know that he deserves to lose it, k?
And by the way - it was the whining of ASCN (and others) that was the reason for the aggro timer being introduced. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, eh?

Serenity Steele
Caldari
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2007.02.09 21:27:00 - [116]
 

Roxor. History is good.


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