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blankseplocked D2-GATE: Ovaron resigns over German EVE-O Scandal
 
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Dragutinovic
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:28:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Shirei
Don't put words in my mouth.

All I said is, it is a fan-site (although one that got the right to use the eve-online.de domain from CCP), unlike what some people in this thread said. Wink


Didnt ment it as such m8 , just gettin a bit confused about it Wink

Besides whats teh big deal ? If BoB does something nasty its ok if someoen else might be doing nasty they demand teh banstick , in GNW they didnt even got a warning about a certain action so i suggest the BoB horde hush .

jsman99
Caldari
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:30:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Svett
So they used an offical eve-online resource to get private IP addresses. That seems a bit much, in fact it should get some bans. Thats uncool stuff right there. How do you know they didn't just get IP's after all.


Didnt someone said all is fair in love and war?

jsman99
Caldari
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:32:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Attak
BoB uses out of game methods to spy, D2 uses out of game methods to catch spies. Not sure what the big controversy is.


No, BoB use social engineering to spy.
That may lead them to be given access to OOG resources (forums / TS /Vent), but that is very different to hacking those resources directly.

This is actually quite a worrying turn of events .. although nowhere near as worrying as the OP's actions.
He should have been banned by now.


wtf ?? this is a joke bob did exactly the same thing SPARE US THE DRAMA.!!

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:36:00 - [34]
 

Interesting. Dont like this kinda stuff but yeah, interesting. Neutral

Originally by: Shirei
Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:08:29
Like most international eve-online.* forums, the domain is owned by CCP, but all content (including web-hosting etc.) is provided by players. If you do a nslookup on eve-online.de, you will find that it uses the same IP as www.xtraders.de.

Question is; does that make it better or worse? I tend to lean on the second option...

I pretty much hate all spying and once it had started (even so little) I knew it would
grow and become much more complicated. And dirty. Cant say I like to be correct this time.



/Lowa

maedden
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:36:00 - [35]
 

All I have to add is that I am sad for clizz who does his best to provide a service for the german speaking community.

Sad that apparently all sides try to abuse this and use it for their propaganda instead of being grateful for the work that he and his team put in.

Cmd Woodlouse
Minmatar
moon7empler
Ev0ke
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:36:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Cmd Woodlouse on 28/01/2007 10:33:57
The spy which came from the german BoB player "Matuk Jela" was not revealed due to Ovarons actions, but by the acts of another german BoB player called "Chrony".

On a personal note: i hope that this spiral doesnt get any lower - the ghosts that i called...

But i also hope that there will be soon capable ingame possibilities to catch spies. Right now as it is, its nearly impossible to do so w/o any form of outgame actions... Rolling Eyes

Sinlare
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:38:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Lowa
Interesting. Dont like this kinda stuff but yeah, interesting. Neutral

Originally by: Shirei
Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:08:29
Like most international eve-online.* forums, the domain is owned by CCP, but all content (including web-hosting etc.) is provided by players. If you do a nslookup on eve-online.de, you will find that it uses the same IP as www.xtraders.de.

Question is; does that make it better or worse? I tend to lean on the second option...

I pretty much hate all spying and once it had started (even so little) I knew it would
grow and become much more complicated. And dirty. Cant say I like to be correct this time.



/Lowa


So true, it's sad.. and all those that defend it.

Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:38:00 - [38]
 

Stop whining, spyz0rs. This is the world you created. Laughing

Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:39:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:37:43
Originally by: c0rn1
Trust me, before getting access to the DNS they had to sign an NDA.

You know that based on what information exactly?

IIRC, eve-online.de was used by this forum before the domain was owned by CCP. So for all we know CCP might simply have allowed them to continue using it after they secured the rights to their trademark domain name. Wink

Obviously, something like this is not very nice at all, and CCP is perfectly in the right to not allow them to continue using their domain anymore - but I doubt there are any EULA or legal implications.

V0idz
Gallente
Herrscher der Zeit
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:44:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Ogul
Stop whining, spyz0rs. This is the world you created. Laughing


true.

Bwal
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:45:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Bwal on 28/01/2007 10:42:13
Quote:
It is important to note that unlike the US, under European Union law IP Addresses are considered to be personal data as defined by article 2(a) of Directive 95/46/EC " 'personal data' shall mean any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person ('data subject'); an identifiable person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identification number or to one or more factors specific to his physical, physiological, mental, economic, cultural or social identity; " Also see Directive 2006/24/EC.

In association with Time Codes, IP Addressing information will always identify unique ISP account holders unless there is translation of that information.

It is important that this significant difference in legal status is appreciated, since Websites that provide for third party interception of IP addressing information and Traffic Data, without Website visitor consent, are committing a criminal offence in the UK by virtue of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, where through the requirements of European Council Decision 2005/222/JHA such Website owners face serious sanctions, including the winding up of their businesses, being debarred from running a business, and more than 2 years imprisonment.



You are infringing on my rights regarding the usage of my IP address for your personal use in third party matters. This is against the law and you are liable. I suggest CCP sort this matter out before it escalates

Baun
Gallente
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:46:00 - [42]
 

If there is any legitimate complaint here at all it should be directed to the operators of the website for giving out that information, not to D2 for using it once obtained. Nothing that they did was any more "meta gamey" than methods employed by everyone to both spy and protect themselves from spies, in game and out.

jsman99
Caldari
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:46:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: Lowa
Interesting. Dont like this kinda stuff but yeah, interesting. Neutral

Originally by: Shirei
Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:08:29
Like most international eve-online.* forums, the domain is owned by CCP, but all content (including web-hosting etc.) is provided by players. If you do a nslookup on eve-online.de, you will find that it uses the same IP as www.xtraders.de.

Question is; does that make it better or worse? I tend to lean on the second option...

I pretty much hate all spying and once it had started (even so little) I knew it would
grow and become much more complicated. And dirty. Cant say I like to be correct this time.



/Lowa


So true, it's sad.. and all those that defend it.


Yeah i felt the same for bob who had to hax the ASCN vent/TS whatever. roflmao as their skills were inadequate to win in a fair fight.. what a joke you guys are..

thesulei
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:56:00 - [44]
 

I would think that CCP owns the eve-online.de domain as a "just in case" strategy, to be able to pull the plug on it should they find that it contradicts their interests.

The website itself is clearly player-run and doesn't convey any other truth. Thus, in my book, it is ok what D2 did.

Get over it bobbits.

Maltere
Gallente
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:01:00 - [45]
 

Unidentified characters cannot post in this forum. Please show your corp/alliance before posting. Please email [email protected] if you have any questions - Karl Chroimcer

Sinlare
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:07:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: jsman99
Originally by: Sinlare
Originally by: Lowa
Interesting. Dont like this kinda stuff but yeah, interesting. Neutral

Originally by: Shirei
Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:08:29
Like most international eve-online.* forums, the domain is owned by CCP, but all content (including web-hosting etc.) is provided by players. If you do a nslookup on eve-online.de, you will find that it uses the same IP as www.xtraders.de.

Question is; does that make it better or worse? I tend to lean on the second option...

I pretty much hate all spying and once it had started (even so little) I knew it would
grow and become much more complicated. And dirty. Cant say I like to be correct this time.



/Lowa


So true, it's sad.. and all those that defend it.


Yeah i felt the same for bob who had to hax the ASCN vent/TS whatever. roflmao as their skills were inadequate to win in a fair fight.. what a joke you guys are..


I doubt bob hacked anything, people falsely accusing are just as sad as people who hax.

D2O HeavyWater
Amarr
Goodfellas holding corp
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:08:00 - [47]
 

lol superb. Unlucky BoB

Druida
Caldari
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:10:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Druida on 28/01/2007 11:08:42
Originally by: Maltere
Bob got owned. Now they cry. Awww


why ppl here must turn everthing to bob?

This is about the abuse of confidential information under a oficial CCP domain name.

This topic is not about Bob or D2 or any alliance!


So Wake up!

Dragutinovic
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:11:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Druida
Originally by: Maltere
Bob got owned. Now they cry. Awww


why ppl here must turn everthing to bob?

This is about the abuse of confidential information under a oficial CCP domain name.

What ever bob did before was not under any CCP domain.!!


So Wake up!


Ingame is not under CCP domain ? Rolling Eyes

Lobo13
Gallente
The Intergalactic Federation
New Eden Legion
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:14:00 - [50]
 


jernej
Caldari
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:14:00 - [51]
 

Have rules or laws been broken?

Druida
Caldari
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:14:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Druida on 28/01/2007 11:11:31
Originally by: Dragutinovic
Originally by: Druida
Originally by: Maltere
Bob got owned. Now they cry. Awww


why ppl here must turn everthing to bob?

This is about the abuse of confidential information under a oficial CCP domain name.

What ever bob did before was not under any CCP domain.!!


So Wake up!


Ingame is not under CCP domain ? Rolling Eyes



Humm can you get confidential player information like IP address INGAME? No.

Oleifr
Caldari
Legion of Krauts
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:15:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: **********
For those who private messaged or eve-mailed me saying it is a fan site:

Offizielle deutsche EVE-Online Seite means Official German EVE-Online Site.

Whois output:

Quote:

Domain data

[17]Domain: eve-online.de
[18]Latest update: 31.10.2006

Domain holder

The domain holder is DENIC's contractual partner and hence holds the
material rights to the domain.

[19]Domain holder: CCP hf.
[20]Address: Grandagarour 8
[21]Postal code: 101
[22]City: Reykjavik
[23]Country: IS




btw. you are violating german laws...
to get the information above you had to read this text and clicked the accept button under this text...
Quote:

The domain "xxx-xxxxxx.de" has already been registered.

If you want further information about the holder of this domain, its special contacts and its technical data, you will first have to agree to the following Terms and Conditions of Use:

Terms and Conditions of Use

All the domain data that is visible in the whois search is protected by law. It is not permitted to use it for any purpose other than technical or administrative requirements associated with the operation of the Internet or in order to contact the domain holder over legal problems. You are not permitted to save it electronically or in any other way without DENIC's express written permission. It is prohibited, in particular, to use it for advertising or any similar purpose.

By clicking the "Accept" button, you give an assurance that you have a legitimate interest in the data and that you will only use it for the stated purposes. You are aware that DENIC maintains the right to initiate legal proceedings against you in the event of any breach of this assurance and to bar you from using its whois query.




you saved it electronical here to this forum, think about it..

Nahual
Gallente
NibbleTek
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:18:00 - [54]
 

So much to say and then all these internet lawyers are going to bring up the law (which i doubt even one of them will be legally right Razz).

Your spy got owned, it happens, get over it, your friends still have spies. If people started this in the first place, don't complain when it comes to bite you in the ass.

Sinoh Necromonger
Caldari
The Weasels of Doom
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:20:00 - [55]
 

Well, tbh I haven't really seen an AWFUL lot of crying from BoB on this matter, but I can sort of see the point of figuring it is not on.

eve-online.de although player run IS the property of CCP, the domain belongs to them (probably due to the outcome of a pre legal action agreement between CCP and the previous owner) and as such the domain's operator should definately be under some sort of rules and guideleines as to what is deemed inkeeping with CCP' gaming ethics.

If I visited that site and saw (for instance) "CCP and EvE is rubbish - Official Website" on the title of it, you would be sure that CCP would take the domain off them for using CCP's property against them.

From what I see, they are indeed using an official resource against CCP's playerbase, which is just as bad.

Shades of grey, but if I were CCP I would be reviewing their rights to host this domain.

Bwal
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:25:00 - [56]
 

Yes laws have been broken see above post also ...

Quote:
Council Framework Decision 2005/222/JHA
of 24 February 2005
on attacks against information systems
THE COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION,
Having regard to the Treaty on European Union, and in particular Articles 29, 30(1)(a), 31(1)(e) and 34(2)(b) thereof,

Article 2

Illegal access to information systems

1. Each Member State shall take the necessary measures to ensure that the intentional access without right to the whole or any part of an information system is punishable as a criminal offence, at least for cases which are not minor.

2. Each Member State may decide that the conduct referred to in paragraph 1 is incriminated only where the offence is committed by infringing a security measure.


Though can can argue it wasnt an attack directly, it was an attack on your public right regarding your personal information which covers your IP address.

ISD Serathu


Caldari
ISD Interstellar Correspondents
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:32:00 - [57]
 

Thread cleaned.

May I remind you that you should adhere to the Forum Rules, the CAOD Rules and the Clarification to them. Please avoid all trolling and off-topic posting from here on in.

Thank you.

Irrilian
Minmatar
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:49:00 - [58]
 

Communication over the net is about as private as writing messages on postcards. If people are particularly concerned about attempting to maintain some form of privacy then they should perhaps consider using an anonymizing proxy, Tor or some such.

Kcel Chim
Caldari
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:50:00 - [59]
 

this is hardly a stunning blow to BoB's spy network.

It only uncovered the few spies which used the german eve-o forums and the d2 forums ignoring the blessing of proxys or anonymizers.

Quiet low to abuse a ccp ressource to gather info in my opinion but im sure ccp themself or via a petition by bob directors (if they are interested in the case at all) will make a judgement call about it.

The most ironic outcome would be that the site loses its "official" status and domain and hence would have damaged the german community as a whole - which doesnt consist of only d2 members.

Thank you d2 and i guess. Good turn is that Cmd. W. will have a hard time to ride the moral high horse when it comes to d2 forum and ts spying in the future.

CCP Wrangler


Caldari
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 11:54:00 - [60]
 

Hi,

http://www.eve-online.de is a fansite and not a CCP run EVE site. I don't know why we seem to own the domain, though I will try to find out, since it's sunday I doubt I will until tomorrow. Wink


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