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Kugutsumen
Gallente
Kugutsumen Dot Com
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:34:00 - [1]
 

Disclaimer: The content of this post is taken and translated from the German EVE-O forums, and is therefore not considered a 'third-party linking' source. Official EVEO content. = ) http://www.eve-online.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=116536#116536

The landscape of power in EVE has been undergoing a lot of changes lately, and doing so at an accelerating pace. With what appears to be BoB and D2, and all the combined corporations each name represents facing off in the North, with Redswarm Federation, and an ever increasing number of alliances joining them, facing off against Lotka Volterra in the South.

One of these alliances, have people who work for an Official EVE Online site, and who have cross referenced IPs and log ins to that official site, against IPs and Logins for their Alliance TS, and completely eliminated several spies when doing so.

Want to know more? Keep reading.

Originally by: Blacklight

I have until recently, due to some of my spies all getting ganked at once by various different circumstances, had one of the most comprehensive spy networks in BoB and I want to get it bult back up again.

If you have alts in other corps/alliances can you convo me in game to talk to me about it please.

Those of you with spy alts please also follow this simple set of rules:-

1. Never tell anyone other than yourself and myself that you are running a spy.
2. Never directly refer to any intel you have in corp or alliance comms, always distance yourself from what you know.
3. Never let anyone use that account.

So if you can help me rebuild my spy network let me know please.

I cannot stress how important it is to never tell anyone in game about it even your best online mates, just keep it quiet and feed the intel.



Quote:

5:10:07 PM Agent: d2 owns the german message board
5:10:09 PM Agent: eve-online.de
5:10:29 PM Agent: their they took the IP adresses of bob members and matched them against those in the d2 forums
5:10:52 PM Agent: thats the reason the spy was revealed
5:11:17 PM k: german eve-o forum?
5:11:23 PM k: d2 use hackers ?
5:11:53 PM Agent: d2 owns the board (x-trader members are admins) - one of these admitted that they matched the IP adresses
5:12:29 PM Agent: so they came on teamspeak where the spy was and kicked him *g*



From the German forums, translated for all of you loyal secret seekers:
Originally by: "Matuk Jelak"

It is a fact that XT uses this forum and the IP adresses of the users to match them against the d2 alliance forum. This is how my alt got uncovered. - by Matuk Jela / BNC - 11.01.2007 9:51



After 8 pages of flame war.

Originally by: "Clizz"

my research revealed that this incident happend (sadly) - ovaron asked one of the staff members who has access to the webserver and the database to give him the IPs of some persons. the staff member told ovaron to talk to me but he refused and he finally got the IPs from an account in this forum. they matched the IPs against multiple forums (e.g. the d2 alliance board) which led to this result.

whats left for me is to say the truth (regardless if ovaron will be angry about this) and I hope that we can get back some credibility for eve-online.de. Ovaron asked me to keep quiet about this but due to all the effort I made for this forum in the last years, I decided to make this public. I personally feel some kind of abused now and so is the member who gave out the IPs.

I want to apologise and hope that this incident won't happen again in the future - otherwise, we could just rename this forum into d2 board.
clizz - 15.01.2007 11:13


Note: X-trading are founding members of TRUST and D2.

Interesting, wouldn't you agree? A bit more...

Quote:

6:49:59 k: who posted that german stuff?
6:50:10 Agent: clizz, afaik he is xtrader-member
6:50:19 Agent: its from the public boards
6:50:24 Agent: so its well known anyway
6:50:52 Agent: official german eve-o forum
6:51:12 Agent: there are 3 bob members in this thread so they already know
6:51:14 k: they admitted that on the eve-o forum?
6:51:19 Agent: yes
6:51:26 k: and noone said anythin?
6:51:45 Agent: well the bob guys were kind of angry and we had some internal rabble about this
6:53:34 Agent: http://www.eve-online.de/forum/viewt...=116536#116536
6:56:48 Agent: so, this is the original accusation: "Es ist eine Tatsache das XT dieses Forum hier betreibt und somit zugriff auf die IP Adressen der User haben, diese haben sie mit dem d2-Ally Board abgeglichen. So ist mein Alt aufgeflogen." Translated it is a fact that xt uses this forum that they have access to the IP adresses of the users and they matched these against the d2 alliance board, that is how my alt got revealed
6:58:56 k: clizz replied that he did?
6:59:11 Agent: yes - after around 7 pages of flaming and denying



Don't forget, your isk keeps the secrets flowing. Donate to k today.

Tomas Ysidro
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:45:00 - [2]
 

Interesting indeed

fiber0pti
Caldari
Critical Mass Technologies
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:49:00 - [3]
 

Well, that's quite scandalous.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:51:00 - [4]
 

What happened is not that surprising. But to be honest, in the past we had people boasting about their out of game abilities to hack killboards, get illegal forum, killboard, TS etc. access.

Now we see the evolution when things technicaly out of game mechanics, are not only allowed but even encouraged. Remember, no one was forced to register their accounts on eve-online.de and only IP-adresses were checked with IP adresses of DČ members.

Whoever is now crying out loud, should keep in mind that they are themselves not without guilt.

Drokar Gazer
Caldari
DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:52:00 - [5]
 

wow.

Emrod
Amarr
Legion Du Lys
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:54:00 - [6]
 

Its dont surprise me....

and don't be surprise too that at the end of 2007, Eve 0.0 territory gonna be own by one or 2 superpower..

the question its...who its gonna be!

to be continuedShocked

Fred0
Caldari
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:56:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Fred0 on 28/01/2007 08:52:58
What a ****storm. Honestly wonder what happened here. Confused

This will probably spill over and build a few rl grudges regardless though. Such a shame.

Svett
Caldari
The Executives
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 08:58:00 - [8]
 

So they used an offical eve-online resource to get private IP addresses. That seems a bit much, in fact it should get some bans. Thats uncool stuff right there. How do you know they didn't just get IP's after all.

Sinlare
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:03:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Svett
So they used an offical eve-online resource to get private IP addresses. That seems a bit much, in fact it should get some bans. Thats uncool stuff right there. How do you know they didn't just get IP's after all.


Seems so.. the site is on CCP's name, so this is really bad. Do players also have the same access on eve-online.com?

MonkSEALPup
Caldari
The Ankou
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:12:00 - [10]
 

As an inconsequential member of D2 I would like an answer as to what happened here. If it is as seems, this a bit out of line. But, as is typically the case, there are some facts that haven't seen the light of day yet. Bueller?

Kugutsumen
Gallente
Kugutsumen Dot Com
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:28:00 - [11]
 

For those who private messaged or eve-mailed me saying it is a fan site:

Offizielle deutsche EVE-Online Seite means Official German EVE-Online Site.

Whois output:

Quote:

Domain data

[17]Domain: eve-online.de
[18]Latest update: 31.10.2006

Domain holder

The domain holder is DENIC's contractual partner and hence holds the
material rights to the domain.

[19]Domain holder: CCP hf.
[20]Address: Grandagarour 8
[21]Postal code: 101
[22]City: Reykjavik
[23]Country: IS


Attak
Minmatar
Trioptimum
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:31:00 - [12]
 

BoB uses out of game methods to spy, D2 uses out of game methods to catch spies. Not sure what the big controversy is.

Sinlare
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:37:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Attak
BoB uses out of game methods to spy, D2 uses out of game methods to catch spies. Not sure what the big controversy is.


You're missing the point where players get access to the official userdatabase of a CCP owned website.

c0rn1
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:37:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: c0rn1 on 28/01/2007 09:48:24
Originally by: Attak
BoB uses out of game methods to spy, D2 uses out of game methods to catch spies. Not sure what the big controversy is.

The Difference is that eve-online.de should be a neutral entity. If they would check IP adresses of the BoB board they got with their spies against their own IPs, then it'd be fine, but not using a NEUTRAL, CCP owned DNS and supported webpage to acquire the IPs and use it for ONE-SIDED purposes.

Avernus
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:43:00 - [15]
 

I think everyone is familiar with how uncomforting it can be to have spys in your alliance, and I've seen folks use methods to try to match up IP's using forums and TS etc in the past in an effort to track down infiltrators, but the thought of it being done through a CCP forum (if my understandings is correct), makes me rather uncomfortable.

Shamis Orzoz
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:44:00 - [16]
 

LaughingLaughingLaughing

LiquidSteele
Minmatar
Terminal Impact
Kairakau
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:48:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Avernus
I think everyone is familiar with how uncomforting it can be to have spys in your alliance, and I've seen folks use methods to try to match up IP's using forums and TS etc in the past in an effort to track down infiltrators, but the thought of it being done through a CCP forum (if my understandings is correct), makes me rather uncomfortable.


I agree, infact myself and everyone else should stop posting on CCP run forums straight awayWink

Sincerly,
LS

Druida
Caldari
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:48:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Druida on 28/01/2007 10:40:05
O.o

Such actions like this are against everthing we believe as a eve player.

for me this is cheating / exploit.

Since eve-online.de registrat is under CCP, i hope that the same GM/ISD rules will be used.

GameMasters & ISD

What are the punishments for using exploits?

This is not about getting a spy, this is about abusing CCP resources!!

Did the eve-online.de Admins signed a NDA with CCP like any ISD must sign? i think so and hope so.

One thing is using alliance forums, corp webpages, ts, etc to try to get spys, that i think all players can accept!

But abusing resources under oficial CCP domain name to change EVE in their own advantage...thats sick..... Im very ****ed off as a player about this.

pew pew

Yarrr o/

Druida

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:51:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Attak
BoB uses out of game methods to spy, D2 uses out of game methods to catch spies. Not sure what the big controversy is.


No, BoB use social engineering to spy.
That may lead them to be given access to OOG resources (forums / TS /Vent), but that is very different to hacking those resources directly.

This is actually quite a worrying turn of events .. although nowhere near as worrying as the OP's actions.
He should have been banned by now.

Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:51:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Svett
So they used an offical eve-online resource to get private IP addresses. That seems a bit much, in fact it should get some bans. Thats uncool stuff right there. How do you know they didn't just get IP's after all.


You can always go sing YMCA to their TeamSpeak if you dislike what they doSmile

Oh wait, that's actually uncool too.

Gabba
Gallente
Priory Of The Lemon
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2007.01.28 09:59:00 - [21]
 

Trying to win/lose with honor went out the window so now everyone is going as low as they can to get the edge. DDOSing TS servers is the new way to win a war.
The only people that will hold 0.0 are people willing to lower themselves to that level. Glorious times ahead, but i think ill take the sideline Crying or Very sad

Sinlare
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:05:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Sinlare on 28/01/2007 10:05:57
n/m

El Covah
Gallente
LOCKDOWN.
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:06:00 - [23]
 

I was always under the impression that eve-online.de is a privately run forum board and not an official CCP resource. However if you look at this you will note that CCP owns the domain, but it is fully player driven.

The german community is a very strong one ingame, and this website is one of the best community sites ever. The moderation is great and you have a lot of more freedom of speech than here.

Btw. What DČ did there lead to loose all their reputation for me. They are not "the good guys" or anything else, just nothing better as this kind of players I am very common with which do not hesitate to cross the RL/game border very far to get an advantage in the game. Forum information like IPs or RL names are RL stuff and in no way connected to the game. People using this are just loosers in RL and also unable play a good game. In the end this type of characters will also loose in EVE.

Shin Ra
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:08:00 - [24]
 

Interesting read. Pathetic opinions thereafter.

Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:12:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:08:29
Like most international eve-online.* forums, the domain is owned by CCP, but all content (including web-hosting etc.) is provided by players. If you do a nslookup on eve-online.de, you will find that it uses the same IP as www.xtraders.de.

Malachon Draco
Caldari
eXceeded
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:13:00 - [26]
 

Heh, brilliant move.

I can't blame D2. If spying is allowed, then counterspying also needs tools to be effective. If that takes a bit of inventive use of IPs and resources, so be it. I have sympathy for any counterspying effort because I consider spies despicable.

Dragutinovic
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:23:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Shirei
Edited by: Shirei on 28/01/2007 10:08:29
Like most international eve-online.* forums, the domain is owned by CCP, but all content (including web-hosting etc.) is provided by players. If you do a nslookup on eve-online.de, you will find that it uses the same IP as www.xtraders.de.


So if i understand you right ... Someone in Xtraders basicly owns the IP/site , therefore no rule is broken ?

oh and Go D2

Shirei
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:25:00 - [28]
 

Don't put words in my mouth.

All I said is, it is a fan-site (although one that got the right to use the eve-online.de domain from CCP), unlike what some people in this thread said. Wink

c0rn1
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:25:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: c0rn1 on 28/01/2007 10:25:59
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Heh, brilliant move.

I can't blame D2. If spying is allowed, then counterspying also needs tools to be effective. If that takes a bit of inventive use of IPs and resources, so be it. I have sympathy for any counterspying effort because I consider spies despicable.


Yeah, very brilliant to use the website which just sits right on a CCP owned DNS, so it should remain untouched and neutral. Guess this will have strong consequences. Most likely the rights of the current Admins will be removed and the DNS-Entry changed into the void.

Originally by: Shirei
Don't put words in my mouth.

All I said is, it is a fan-site (although one that got the right to use the eve-online.de domain from CCP), unlike what some people in this thread said. Wink


Trust me, before getting access to the DNS they had to sign an NDA.

Ilmonstre
Minmatar
The Secret Fleet
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:26:00 - [30]
 


don't be such babies.

the spy got caught so tough luck get over it and start over again.

and it has been said they will use any way to gain a advantage to win from the opponent and as noted before no hacking was involved since its only registered by name and all the managing if the site is done from the same location as xtraders.de



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