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blankseplocked Something needs to be done to re-populate low-sec.
 
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Blindscythe
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:06:00 - [151]
 

Don't know if this has been mentioned, or whether its a viable option, but what about increasing the amount of anti-pirates/bounty hunters by adding a mission incentive of sorts? As your security status drops, you immediately receive a bounty (based on sec. status x whatever cost) from an NPC corp, which can be claimed by a bounty hunter via kill and return to the NPC agent?

Just throwing that in there. May help to clean out a few nasties and allow a greater flexibility for previously classed as 'prey'

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:10:00 - [152]
 

Best solution allow the Empire players free access to low sec for one month. That is No attacking them, no scamming, ripping them off, any of that. Let them get engulfed with the region, then come back.

Of course the above was just another solution, to a problem that CCP/You/me/us, cannot fix. And its going to go the same place all the other "My solution to fix low-sec" threads have gone....




Mortimer Phinn
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:22:00 - [153]
 

I love the OP, he kills 30 ships a day and then wonders why nobody comes to low sec anymore. Looking at this over a period of a week, you get 210 victims vs. 1 pirate. Maybe the easy solution is to get rid of the 1 guy making the game miserable for 210?

Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Emptiness.
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:24:00 - [154]
 

Well I am happy with 4 kills per day :)

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:25:00 - [155]
 

Edited by: Roshan longshot on 22/01/2007 16:22:00
Stupid forum bugs.....

Jayson Lee
Minmatar
Universal Exports
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:26:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Vladikov Orrico
Quote:
The more experienced players don't hang around in lowsec when they can just join a corp/alliance that is already in deep 0.0 space and offers much better rewards in terms of minerals and NPCs. The Empire guys just sit and run missions and avoid traveling into lowsec systems whenever possible.


This is like the hunter wondering why, after camping a game trail for a year, there is less and less game each passing month.

The game mechanics are making things too easy to grief. Fine the original OP may be one of those actual people who pvp's without griefing, but most of the time it's not them hunting you down.

0.0 corps offer protection in numbers....high sec offers protection of concord (to some extent). I agree there should be more incentive for low sec play....but you can't have it both ways. Very little incentive is going to get people there if it remains a game trail for the predators.


I must say.. you have no clue...

The 99% of PVPers are not there for griefign.. they do not care for you or your opinion. Even Ginger MAgician is not a griefer (although he is a pain in the 1#!#[email protected]#[email protected]).

Most are there for the excitment of the hunt. Because it is addicting, since its part of human nature.

Griefign would be someone in a BS jump in scramble or cruiser and sit there.. not killing you neither leting you go....


How is killing some unarmed miner or hauler fun? There is no challenge, the only reason for the enjoyment is causing grief for someone who doesnt want anything to do with combat. I think you know what he is getting at and its important to understand that we all are for more pvp between those parties that want it. But nerfing high sec to force more "prey" into low sec wont work. It makes as much sense as nerfing pirates to promote low sec, are you for that?

Just think about the numbers for a second. If you increase the pop of people in low sec and lets pretend that pirates wont increase in number (they will). How many people could 1 pirate kill in an hour? I am guessing that even if you increase low sec 100 fold you would still not reduce the risk enough to make it attractive to other players.

You can adjust the rewards for high/low sec all you want but until you give characters a better way to protect low sec space you wont get the increase in numbers you want.

Jaedar Metron
Gigaverse
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:27:00 - [157]
 

I sign for these proposals... YARRRR!!

- The rats in lowsec might need a small boost, and they should be able to drop something rare, only found in these drops, once in a while (a low percentage chance). Smile

- Move 0.0 low-end ores that no one uses, and make them common in lowsec. Jaspet just isnt enough to bother arranging mining ops in this dangerous land ugh

- More lowsec belts! If every lowsec system had about 10 planets and 20 belts, there would be much more ground to cover for pirates hunting ratters/miners. Also, all lowsec systems should get a massive increase in size so you need to warp around 4 times before ou can scan the entire system using directional scanning.

- Make pirates attackable without the sechit. This will encourage the rock-hard anti pirates into really wrecking havoc on pirate grounds, and at the same time, these will not get trapped. Cool
YES. Pirates would be able to rat their way back to positive. Most probably wont. We have griefers in starter systems. They are an annoyance, but really not a big problem. It will be the same for those few pirates that can be bothered to rat in 0.0 every few kills. Very Happy

Now for a little rant...
What is low-sec? Pirates spawning grounds? It is in this age.

Currently lowsec is far too risky compared to its rewards. A player who want to get a battleship, but does not want to be a part of the 0.0, only have one option left: High sec.
Lowsec is neither profitable enough nor safe enough. His ship (presumably battlecruiser) would always negate all profits made in lowsec when it's lost to PC pirates.

Think about this: A player, around three months old, can probably fly a battlecruiser fairly well. But lowsec wont cut it for him if he need money for better fitting/ship.

Now, if the rats in lowsec had this small percentage chance of dropping something really good, he could equip his BC, or even a cruiser with a PvP fitting, and go rat the lowsec rats. (yes, PvP fitting. The rats in lowsec is pathetic, even a low skilled character can rat them with a PvP fitting). This would make them able to fight back if attacked, and maybe even win. The pilot has the extra edge of not having to equip a scrambler too, all he needs to do is drive the pirate away so he can escape. Smile

What would this fix, you ask? Here's the point. If a pilot manages to get such a rare drop, he can hurry to a station and drop it off/sell it. He can now pat himself on the back and think "Job well done, if I lose this Cruiser now, it wont matter. This stuff will cover the costs and still leave room for my Battleship Fund Twisted Evil" Increased size of the lowsec systems also makes it harder for a pirate to find these aspiring Pilots. Very Happy

Remember what I said about the PvP fitting? Now rewind and make this TWO aspiring pilots. It would still be profitable for both of them (twice as fast rating, more probability of a rare drop) and it would make the even safer against PC pirates. Now make it a ratting operation. 10 guys from the same corporation, all in PvP fitting, striving to get a bunch of rare drops. YARRRR!! You get my point, no? Smile

Mining would still need a fairly big group of pilots to do effectively, but the better ore will at least make it worthwhile. Smile




Thanks alot for reading my long post, really appreciate it YARRRR!!
-Jaedar Metron, the friendly pirate of Seyllin and Ane.

P.S
I'm lucky if I even FIND a target these days... 1 ransom last week Neutral

BurnHard
Posted - 2007.01.22 16:57:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Jaedar Metron

Now, if the rats in lowsec had this small percentage chance of dropping something really good


Am I the only one who's ever had an officer spawn in a 0.1 system? Actually, I had one in a 0.2 and one in a 0.1 about six months ago. Cruiser spawns. Did they change them?

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.22 17:23:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: BurnHard
Originally by: Jaedar Metron

Now, if the rats in lowsec had this small percentage chance of dropping something really good


Am I the only one who's ever had an officer spawn in a 0.1 system? Actually, I had one in a 0.2 and one in a 0.1 about six months ago. Cruiser spawns. Did they change them?


I've only ever had 1 officer spawn (a frigate- w00t!) and that was in .3 or something similar. All my time in 0.0 hasn't wielded one yet Rolling Eyes

Jaedar Metron
Gigaverse
Posted - 2007.01.22 17:38:00 - [160]
 

Ah yes, the faction and officer spawns. They are TOO rare, and they appear in the entire universe. Faction spawns are 1 each day/each system, no clue about officers.

I'm more talking about maybe a 0.1% chance of getting something really nice from every rat you kill in lowsec ONLY (what would the point be if you had the same shot at the nice drop everywhere?) This would mean that statistically you would get 1 item every 1000 kills in lowsec. This is kind of severe... But that is if your unlucky. You can just as might end up with 100 rare drops after 100 kills (extremely lucky) as you can end up with 0 /100kills (unlucky)

So if the player I used in my example is really lucky he can do good one day and not even lose his ship in the process, and do really bad another day and lose ship and gets podded at the same time. YARRRR!!

-Jaedar

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2007.01.22 17:52:00 - [161]
 

Edited by: Taedrin on 22/01/2007 17:48:48
Carebears will move to low sec, IFF net ISK gained in low sec is greater than net ISK gained in high sec. Or rather, IFF:

(lowSecIncome - lowSecCosts) > (highSecIncome - highSecCosts).


As such, we have 4 seperate ways to try to herd carebears into lowsec:


  1. Increase low-sec reward (higher lowSecIncome)

  2. Lower low-sec risk (lower lowSecCosts)

  3. Lower high-sec reward (lower highSecIncome)

  4. Increase high-sec risk (higher highSecCosts)


Option 2 is not wanted by pirates, but wanted by carebears. Options 3 and 4 are not wanted by carebears, but wanted by pirates. Option 1 seems to be tolerable to both parties.

Make of it what you will...

Gretek Lal
Minmatar
Fractal Holdings Ltd.
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:01:00 - [162]
 

I don't have a lot of time to play. An hour here and there.

Since mining is mainly what I do, it would take me weeks to save enough to replace my Osprey if it gets destroyed by lo-sec gate campers.

So why bother to even try to go to lo-sec?

If CCP provided many more gates into lo-sec systems, maybe.

Tanis Bastar
Caldari
Interstitial Incorporated
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:28:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Tanis Bastar on 22/01/2007 18:25:25
Originally by: Taedrin
As such, we have 4 seperate ways to try to herd carebears into lowsec:


  1. Increase low-sec reward (higher lowSecIncome)

  2. Lower low-sec risk (lower lowSecCosts)

  3. Lower high-sec reward (lower highSecIncome)

  4. Increase high-sec risk (higher highSecCosts)


Option 2 is not wanted by pirates, but wanted by carebears. Options 3 and 4 are not wanted by carebears, but wanted by pirates. Option 1 seems to be tolerable to both parties.


I think the suggestion to not give sec rating hits for negative sec rating targets would reduce lo-sec risk (ie, Option 2) by encouraging anti-pirate behavior. And most pirates don't seem to complain about this idea, maybe because it gives them the PvP that they want (albeit vs. someone that fights back).

Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:32:00 - [164]
 

The Op and "pirates" like him are the reason people don´t flock to low sec.

It says you can be a "Pirate" on the box, it doesn´t say people have to queue up to be your "victim".

CCP is not to blame for the current situation. Players are. Pirates for feeding to often at the trough, and other players for getting tired of throwing isk and standings away to keep the "pew pew yarrrr" crowd happy.

Adapt , overcome, or go play frogger.




Kolwrath
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:39:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Jaedar Metron
I sign for these proposals... YARRRR!!
- The rats in lowsec might need a small boost, and they should be able to drop something rare, only found in these drops, once in a while (a low percentage chance). Smile



Uhhh those already exist. They are called officer spawns and they are VERY rare. They drop faction loot. I have been playing for a year now and have seen two. One in 0.5 and one in 0.7, both frigates who dropped one faction item each.


Originally by: Jaedar Metron
I sign for these proposals... YARRRR!!
- Move 0.0 low-end ores that no one uses, and make them common in lowsec. Jaspet just isnt enough to bother arranging mining ops in this dangerous land ugh



Apparently CCP tried moving more profitable ores to low sec already. No jaspet in empire was not always the case from what I have read. They moved it to encourage lowsec mining but it did not work did it?

Originally by: Jaedar Metron
I sign for these proposals... YARRRR!!
- More lowsec belts! If every lowsec system had about 10 planets and 20 belts, there would be much more ground to cover for pirates hunting ratters/miners. Also, all lowsec systems should get a massive increase in size so you need to warp around 4 times before ou can scan the entire system using directional scanning.



How will this help? I fail to see how more ground to cover will increase low sec miners. It will be the same as it is now ... just a couple more secs to warp to a SS and sit there for an hour while you wait for the pirate to search every belt, search again, and then get bored and leave. Meanwhile two hours have passed and the isk per hour of your low sec venture is lower than mining veldspar in 1.0.


Originally by: Jaedar Metron
I sign for these proposals... YARRRR!!
- Make pirates attackable without the sechit. This will encourage the rock-hard anti pirates into really wrecking havoc on pirate grounds, and at the same time, these will not get trapped. Cool
YES. Pirates would be able to rat their way back to positive. Most probably wont. We have griefers in starter systems. They are an annoyance, but really not a big problem. It will be the same for those few pirates that can be bothered to rat in 0.0 every few kills. Very Happy



Good idea, but that will only encourage anti-pirates who honeslty are few and far between. Everyone else will still get ganked right and left and thus not populate the area, just like the situation is right now.

Originally by: Jaedar Metron
I sign for these proposals... YARRRR!!
Think about this: A player, around three months old, can probably fly a battlecruiser fairly well. But lowsec wont cut it for him if he need money for better fitting/ship.



Well said, and quoted for truth. Low sec is plain not worth the risk for the average joe-capsuler. That, and the low penalty for bieng a pirate (criminal) is the main source of the problem in my opinion.

Just my 0.2 isk

Hauler McTote
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:40:00 - [166]
 

Boost Ores/Belts a bit and ratting.

Add something unique to LowSec, I dunno maybe a small chance every time a rock is popped that something good/cool/lucrative occurs.

No Sec hit for -Sec targets.

Boost ALL LowSec stations and Services, ALL of them.

Create Mining vessels that can have a decent tank.
Improve their drone capacity.
A Retriever is almost insta popped by Anything...

these would probably go a long way to helping.

vr0p
Gallente
Ivory Research LLC
Galactic Acqisition Specialists
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:52:00 - [167]
 

As a semi-lowsec resident (currently breaking to high-sec to try out lvl 4s), I don't understand most of these complaints about it, e.g. "too risky" or "I can't fire back".

I assume most of these "too risky" complaints are coming from low-sec Caldari space, because where I am, low-sec is empty... I mined Hemorphite for 6 hours before I saw someone in local passing through. Eventually a gang of 5 pirates came in system, and there was plenty of time to dock my barge. I haul my ore every 12,000m3 or so, so even if they were to blow up the jetcan, there's not much loss compared to gains (sidenote: they didn't blow the can).

Secondly, the "I can't fire back" argument is silly. People I guess don't understand the rules of engagement? If a -5.0 or below pirate decides to hunt me down, I open fire first and there is no penalty (other than the normal can't jump/dock).

If you are so absolutely attached to your shiny 1.2 security rating that took a year to get up, you can buy a cheap ship (tier 1 industrial for instance) and just let a pirate shoot at it (15 min kill rights for you) or blow it up (1 month kill rights for you).

Security status is very easy to recover from... the higher it gets, the slower it raises, and vice versa. So you can imagine once you get into the negatives, just how quickly it goes back up. I've seen a few local pirates change into industrial corps because their pirate corp changed region, and in a few weeks have gone from ~-9.0 to around ~-2.0.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2007.01.22 19:16:00 - [168]
 

Why is 0.0 mostly empty? because there is so much of it. If you add a ton of lowsec systems people will explore.

If you generate it they will come.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.01.22 19:17:00 - [169]
 

"Something needs to be done to re-populate low-sec."

Why?
Confused


So you can have more targets is a pretty hard sell to those who would be the potential targets. But after 6 pages you can probably already tell that.
Laughing


I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting...

Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.01.22 19:51:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68

I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting...



Here you go

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2007.01.22 19:59:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Daos Leghki
Originally by: Roy Batty68

I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting...



Here you go


hey I know you Razz

Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:04:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Marcus TheMartin

hey I know you Razz


\o/

Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:14:00 - [173]
 

Why not make systems bigger?

OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it.

It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range.

Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:22:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Why not make systems bigger?

OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it.

It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range.


The man speaks the truth. The hardest systems to scan are the ones where only the first few planets are within scanner range and the belts are spread evenly with 2-3 belts per planet. A royal pain to scan, and gives someone much more time to notice you in local.

Whether that's enough to encourage people to go to low-sec, I don't know, but it certainly could be part of a solution.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:31:00 - [175]
 

Originally by: Daos Leghki
Originally by: Roy Batty68

I'm still waiting for the "repopulate low-sec" thread that doesn't include "nerf highsec" in it. Still waiting...



Here you go


Aye, just saw that one. Pretty interesting ideas. o/

Soporo
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:40:00 - [176]
 

People get into a lather about this Topic, But almost everyone knowledgeable about EVE (both sides of the coin) agrees it needs looking into in a serious way.

Can anyone point us to a Dev comment (recent or not), that makes any kind of statement about the state of LowSec as is?

Would there be a possibility to get a dev to comment on this thread, please?

Tell us to sthu.
tell us it's fine.
Tell us it needs some tweeks.
tell us you have some ideas and plan.
Tell us LowSec?? What's that?

Please just tell us something we can hang onto so we don't re-hash this damn thing over and over again.
Thanks.

Syrec
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:43:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Syrec on 22/01/2007 20:39:56
Low sec can be just as dangerous as 0.0 with more stations, but with fairly poor rewards. To populate it you either need to up the rewards or change how flagging/kill rights work. Bounty hunters cannot fully hunt pirates without risking sec hits to themselves. Until a change low sec remains a high risk low reward area of space where the rules make it harder for prey to seek revenge on predators. atm you're better off going to 0.0 or waging corp/alliance war.

Jaedar Metron
Gigaverse
Posted - 2007.01.22 21:27:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Kolwrath
Uhhh those already exist. They are called officer spawns and they are VERY rare. They drop faction loot. I have been playing for a year now and have seen two. One in 0.5 and one in 0.7, both frigates who dropped one faction item each.


Yes, too rare. An officer spawn spawns ONCE a day. This is not enough to make lowsec worth it at all. I'm not saying teh new "presents" should negate the officer spawns. After all, we are talking about faction items here. I just want lowsec to be profitable enough to make a player not worry about the damage pirates do to him that much.

Alternatively the bounties on the rats can be incresed, but with that comes bigger rats, and if you have to lose a battleship while ratting spawns in lowsec, its kinda countering its desired effect Neutral

Originally by: Kolwrath
Apparently CCP tried moving more profitable ores to low sec already. No jaspet in empire was not always the case from what I have read. They moved it to encourage lowsec mining but it did not work did it?

Well no one is using the lowend ores in 0.0 anyways. I'm not saying this will solve the problem, I'm saying it will help, just as the the better ratdrops. Smile

Originally by: Kolwrath
How will this help? I fail to see how more ground to cover will increase low sec miners. It will be the same as it is now ... just a couple more secs to warp to a SS and sit there for an hour while you wait for the pirate to search every belt, search again, and then get bored and leave. Meanwhile two hours have passed and the isk per hour of your low sec venture is lower than mining veldspar in 1.0.


I'm a pirate, so I know this. More ground to cover is a pain in the ass. More ground to cover will mean I will have to warp around more to be able to scan all the belts. More belts spread on many planets will mean even more warps for me to do before I have scanned the system. The prey can make lots of things happen in that time Surprised

Originally by: Kolwrath
Good idea, but that will only encourage anti-pirates who honeslty are few and far between. Everyone else will still get ganked right and left and thus not populate the area, just like the situation is right now.

You might have a point. But perhaps this will encourage more people to hop into the anti-pirate profession? Apparently some pirates are using pretty expensive mods, so it could be wery lucrative. Embarassed

Originally by: Kolwrath
Well said, and quoted for truth. Low sec is plain not worth the risk for the average joe-capsuler. That, and the low penalty for bieng a pirate (criminal) is the main source of the problem in my opinion.

Just my 0.2 isk

And if you read the rest of my post you could see how my proposed changes will help this pilot YARRRR!!




-JM

Jaguar Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
Blood Alliance of Dragons
Posted - 2007.01.22 23:03:00 - [179]
 

lol, i'm repeating what i said in my quote #86,,
turn the bloody map red,, make it all 0.0

then there will be fun lolol

but realy, alot of players would leave eve,

its a solved problem if ccp removes the sec standing loss i would suffer from killing any low sec standing player or one who has a bounty on him.

lots of players would then enter low sec to fight and try to move them out and take over that low sec system,, thats what is needed to repopulate. not just have players playing part time in low sec.. you want them living there.
and the only way to achieve this is what i have suggested..
moving lvl4 agents to low sec lol, that will just cause alot of players to simply leave eve for good.

and if you think about it, there shouldn't be npc corps or agents in low low sec, or 0.0..npc corps if this were real life would only be operating in a system that had some security. and low low sec and 0.0 has none. so there should be no agents and no missions given in these sec lvl systems.

again its 1 simple fix. remove the security standing loss i'll take if i kill anyone anywhere in game that has a negative sec standing and or a bounty on him.and i want to kill him even in 1.0, without concord helping the pirate.. he is an outlaw and should NOT be protected

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.01.22 23:19:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Cmdr Sy
Why not make systems bigger?

OK, people simply travelling would be in warp for a few seconds longer, but at least the appearance of an unfamiliar player in Local would give the residents time to decide whether they have enough firepower to carry on with their mission / mining op. And maybe reinforce it.

It's a bit silly how you can jump in and oh look, 75% of the belts are clustered around one planet, and often it's in scan range.


The whole problem is local. Increase the size of the systems, but remove local. Using local as an intel tool to flee from danger is a broken game mechanic, and has even been stated as such by the Development Team.


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