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Tomsudy
Minmatar
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:25:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Tomsudy on 21/01/2007 17:22:19
Originally by: X99 Z990
Originally by: Sokratesz
Also, the ECM drones especially the webbers ones need a speed boost with all these nanoships around.
Other way round i think, nano ships need nerfing.

Reminds me of double AB/MWD setups of the old days.


please stop suggesting this its just got back to being as fun as the days of dual mwd and everyone is calling for they to be nerfed.

Keep nano ships and increase everything else

I do agree with the drone problems my m8 lost his abso this morning because of one of those ****ed up bugs

Jerick Ludhowe
Southern Cross Empire
Flying Dangerous
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:37:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Tomsudy

please stop suggesting this its just got back to being as fun as the days of dual mwd and everyone is calling for they to be nerfed.

Keep nano ships and increase everything else




So instead of just changing how one or two modules work ccp instead changes how hundreds work... Fantastic logic there, glad you're not a dev.

Anyhoo. I don't think that the power of drones needs to be altered in anyway infact I'm in favor of changing the drone damage bonusses on many ships in favor of a more versatile bonus. But regaurdless of my opinion on that I do think tha the functionality of drones need to be overhauled. A new ui and more intresting commands along a command that allows drones and fighters to engage other drones and fighters w/o the controller requiring a lock would be pretty cool.

Xiaoting Wang
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:18:00 - [63]
 

Btw, devs haven't answered to the previous (approx.) 150 posts on this forum, what makes you think they will give a **** about this complaint?

flaming phantom
Minmatar
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2007.01.21 20:55:00 - [64]
 

/signed

the main things i think need fixed are:

-they move together as one group and dont split up
-be able to set priority so they go after frigs only, then cruiser, etc. unless u tell them otherwise
-sig radius is crazy, that neeeds to be lowered

Ethan Magnar
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.01.21 23:55:00 - [65]
 

Signed.

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.01.22 18:59:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Gen Ap
Originally by: Steppa
Originally by: Kruel
It would also help if CCP turned off collision on drones. Once they start humping each other they take a long-ass time to get back in the drone bay.


Honestly, when is the last time you saw this happen? I used to fly an Ishtar with 15 ogre II's. It happened all the time back then. But when they reduced the number you could fly, it stopped. I have not seen that happen since Red Moon Rising.


It does happen occasionally, but not very often. I've had it happen at least once this week.


Well a few days ago I was running a mission with my buddies and *almost every single time* I had my drones out (ogres) 2 of them would start having sex. It happened no less than 5 times that day.

Honestly, why not just turn off collision on drones anyway? Not only would it fix the problem with them getting stuck, but then they'd be able to move through solid objects just like all other weapon systems.

Bellatrix VanFeldt
Posted - 2007.01.22 20:31:00 - [67]
 

/signed x infinity

If I tell a drone to "Engage Target" it should keep moving and shooting at that target until the target is no longer there. *NOONE* wants *ANY* *OTHER* *BEHAVIOR*. Fixing this will eliminate 80% of the drone hassle.

If I recall a drone, it should turn on it's MWD, come straight toward my ship, and when it hits me, it should dock. It should *NEVER* slow down to orbit speed at any point on its way back. Just keep 'em coming until they bump me, then let the collision handler pop them in the drone bay.

Drones should never collide with other drones, ever. Colliding with ships is OK.

Come on CCP, you guys should own up to the shame of your crappy drone code, try coding for a few days without getting sloshed beforehand, and fix the god-damned drones.

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.01.22 23:03:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Xiaoting Wang
Oh, btw, whining about drones is absolutely useless. I've been doing it for longer than a year and a half with absolutely no results. I don't know what kind of stimulus the devs have to receive in order for drones to be places on their TOFIX list. Maybe the code is simply so ****ed up that they're afraid of touching it and just pretend not to hear us.
A year ago they kept says that they COULD NOT reproduce any of the drone problems we were mentioning to them, hence we were just making things up.
What kind of subscription do I have to pay to make devs fix their own game? Is there like a higher quality subscription, maybe 50 bucks a month, which gives one the right to be believed by the devs when bugs are reported?


Lol

Tulisin Dragonflame
Posted - 2007.01.23 02:11:00 - [69]
 

/signed

As an aspiring drone boat pilot I want my weapons system to be viable. An "engage target" hotkey would be very nice indeed.

Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2007.01.23 04:28:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Drek Grapper
Originally by: Xiaoting Wang
Oh, btw, whining about drones is absolutely useless. I've been doing it for longer than a year and a half with absolutely no results. I don't know what kind of stimulus the devs have to receive in order for drones to be places on their TOFIX list. Maybe the code is simply so ****ed up that they're afraid of touching it and just pretend not to hear us.
A year ago they kept says that they COULD NOT reproduce any of the drone problems we were mentioning to them, hence we were just making things up.
What kind of subscription do I have to pay to make devs fix their own game? Is there like a higher quality subscription, maybe 50 bucks a month, which gives one the right to be believed by the devs when bugs are reported?


Lol


I was one of the guys debating with the Dev in question with him telling us that we were, full stop, wrong, he was actually quite abrasive to us about the whole issue if I recall correctly.

Drone Whisperer
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2007.01.23 07:29:00 - [71]
 

Drone A.I. definately needs a boost.

Caios
Caldari
Killson Corp
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2007.01.24 02:51:00 - [72]
 

/Signed

Experienced all the above mentioned problems. The light drones not docking thing appears to be fixed, and now I get back from hiatus to see that my heavies now have ADD.

Fix it, or at least level the playing field by making guns/missiles shoot at random targets half the time. Razz

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2007.01.24 03:19:00 - [73]
 

On my alt i usually do missions with a support domi,and every time he pulls out his drones i hear"CRAP CRAP EVERYTHING IS AGGROED."I do love drones Very Happy

cyno lisa
Posted - 2007.01.24 21:44:00 - [74]
 

signed!

i always thought drones ai was bugged... really hits me now with fighters..
they mwd to enemy 180km away, kill it and when i order return they must be tired/out of fuel/enjoying the scenery cause they don't use mwd... 180 $#@^#$^friggin' km!
btw.. when i warp away from where they r and order return, their status will say following, but that's a LIE!! they just sit where they r, picking their nose, scratching their arses.... please FIX

Abbadon Karis
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2007.01.24 22:48:00 - [75]
 

Signed, Most important givce us hotkeys for the love of god, even the smallest devs manage to implement such simle things as hotkeys into their games....

dalman
TunDraGon
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.01.24 23:12:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Tribunal
3) If a player CTDs or goes LD while fighting NPCs with drones then the drones are dead. Fix this! Make the drones stop attacking the NPCs if the player warps out (CTDs, LDs...etc) and make the NPCs stop attacking the drones.

Oh god that is annoying... BUT:

There once was a fix to this, let's put it back in again Very Happy
It's called warp-scrambling NPCs.
Back in the good old days, practily every NPC-spawn had you scrambled. Result:
If you CTD'ed, then your ship would still be sitting there, with the NPCs shooting at you and your drones still killing off the NPCs. And when you logged back in it was the same as if you'd just taken a short run to pick up a beer or something...

Not to mention how much better this also would be to stop this annoying log log log log log that's going on all around the place now.

Sandzibarr
S0G
Posted - 2007.01.24 23:41:00 - [77]
 

oh god yes.
/signed

Shakira21
Gallente
Zircon Tech
Posted - 2007.01.24 23:44:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Tribunal


1) We still have drones that randomly pick targets. Why can this not be fixed? Why must I baby sit my drones all the way to the target with the attack command? Seriously, this is getting to be too much.


I have that happen with my Hammerhead II's all the time. one will randomly take off in the middle of fighting one Rat to start fighting another. i have to hit engage target 2-3 times befor they all start fighting the same one again.

Kuang Jao
Posted - 2007.01.25 06:33:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Aramendel
Personally, what I would like is that your drones always act as single unit and do not split up on different targets. Also, being able to prioritize their targets ("attack only frigates" for example) wouldn't be too much to ask IMO.

And the drone issues in missions is something which should be fixed.


I've thought of this too and totally agree. Options for drone formations would be so nice. The abilty to make sub groups within main groups that fly separately when launched (if you have no sub groups, they all act as one unit). Each group could then be individually asigned specific target types (frigs, bs, sentry guns, etc.). Drones 1,2 and 3 could take the BC's/cruisers while 4 and 5 handle the frigs (while thats not a formation I'd probably use, it's just an example of what might be possible).

To say that there's no issues is ridiculous. What did someone post? The drone AI "decided to attack this other target because it's attacking master" (even though we know they attack untargeted, unaggressive rats)? God, I'm glad we don't use incredibly advanced drone AI's from the far future in our currently aged passenger planes of today, which usually don't have a problem staying on target even when you factor in weather patterns... and don't say "but this is a GAME and thats rl", that just feeds my argument. Shouldn't it be that much easier in a game? In fact, it seems like it would be more difficult to program a drone that thinks for itself than one who could stay on target Razz.

Xcom
Gallente
Quantum Vortex Battalion
Posted - 2007.01.25 09:15:00 - [80]
 


goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2007.01.25 09:19:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: cyno lisa
signed!

i always thought drones ai was bugged... really hits me now with fighters..
they mwd to enemy 180km away, kill it and when i order return they must be tired/out of fuel/enjoying the scenery cause they don't use mwd... 180 $#@^#$^friggin' km!
btw.. when i warp away from where they r and order return, their status will say following, but that's a LIE!! they just sit where they r, picking their nose, scratching their arses.... please FIX
As an easy way to get around the first problem set out a can,tell your fighters to attack it and then pull them in.

Second one,they are following,just they are approaching,and yes they forgot to turn their mwds on Very Happy

Jokim
Posted - 2007.01.25 10:07:00 - [82]
 

The reason drones arent getting fixed is because they dont need to.

The only thing a mmo dev needs to do is to keep customers playing. This thread is a prime example of why they dont need to fix anything related to drones, as it contains the statements of several individuals saying they have been around forever and complained about drones forever. Thanslated into developer-speak this means "while i am unhappy with a certain feature im not quitting the game over it so theres no need for you to fix it because fixing it would cost money but not fixing it wont make these people quit the game"

This goes for all computer games, and especially MMOs
The game companies keeps churning out crappy game after crappy game and people keeps buying them.
If you want anyone to take your complaint seriously, quit the game and state the reason why you quit in the form that (usually) accompanies the quit page for a mmo.
(no, quitting does not mean reactivating your account every 30 days for so to immedately cancel it again so it seems you arent actually playing)

Ione Hunt
Storm Solutions
Posted - 2007.01.25 10:25:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Jokim
The reason drones arent getting fixed is because they dont need to.

The only thing a mmo dev needs to do is to keep customers playing. This thread is a prime example of why they dont need to fix anything related to drones, as it contains the statements of several individuals saying they have been around forever and complained about drones forever. Thanslated into developer-speak this means "while i am unhappy with a certain feature im not quitting the game over it so theres no need for you to fix it because fixing it would cost money but not fixing it wont make these people quit the game"

This goes for all computer games, and especially MMOs
The game companies keeps churning out crappy game after crappy game and people keeps buying them.
If you want anyone to take your complaint seriously, quit the game and state the reason why you quit in the form that (usually) accompanies the quit page for a mmo.
(no, quitting does not mean reactivating your account every 30 days for so to immedately cancel it again so it seems you arent actually playing)


Oveur just stated that they're gonna hire a "drone dude" who will do nothing but fix drones. I think that kinda proves your post wrong YARRRR!!

Jokim
Posted - 2007.01.25 17:16:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Ione Hunt
Originally by: Jokim
The reason drones arent getting fixed is because they dont need to.

The only thing a mmo dev needs to do is to keep customers playing. This thread is a prime example of why they dont need to fix anything related to drones, as it contains the statements of several individuals saying they have been around forever and complained about drones forever. Thanslated into developer-speak this means "while i am unhappy with a certain feature im not quitting the game over it so theres no need for you to fix it because fixing it would cost money but not fixing it wont make these people quit the game"

This goes for all computer games, and especially MMOs
The game companies keeps churning out crappy game after crappy game and people keeps buying them.
If you want anyone to take your complaint seriously, quit the game and state the reason why you quit in the form that (usually) accompanies the quit page for a mmo.
(no, quitting does not mean reactivating your account every 30 days for so to immedately cancel it again so it seems you arent actually playing)


Oveur just stated that they're gonna hire a "drone dude" who will do nothing but fix drones. I think that kinda proves your post wrong YARRRR!!


Well, people have been complaining about drones for years :)

Gaarai
Posted - 2007.01.29 21:38:00 - [85]
 

/signed

In my experience, drones work great 95% of the time. When they mess up though, the problems created are far worse than most other issues I've encountered while in non-drone ships.

I have experienced the following bugs (while in control range) frequently (although seemingly random in occurrence):
- One or more drones switch to different targets without being instructed to do so.
- One or more drones stop moving toward instructed target and either remain motionless or (more often) find new targets on their own.
- One or more drones will ignore a command to return to the drone bay and will continue to attack their current target.
- One or more drones will have a command "lag" (an order is issued and won't be acted upon for multiple seconds while the other ones merrily follow the order). This happens often when I'm trying to "reel in" my heavies in order to deploy some lights or meds.

The following are behavior characteristics that are unintuitive, add to the need to "babysit" the drones, and create unnecessary drone upkeep chores.
- Upon destroying a target, the drones randomly seem to do one of three things: remain stationary, return to orbit my ship, or acquire a random target (each drone doing so independently) (most frequent). In other words, they are not always consistent.
- If drones are deployed and are orbiting the ship when the ship is not under attack, they seem to be in a "auto-defend" mode and will attempt to automatically engage aggressive targets. If drones are deployed while the ship is under attack, they only orbit the ship and require instructions. The effect of this is clear. If your drones are already out while not under fire, shooting or "aggroing" anything will cause the drones to automatically attack (if the potential target is within control range). If your drones are not out and you are "ganked", you have to quickly target at least one target, tell the drones to deploy, wait while the drones fully deploy or the target is acquired (usually the targeting takes much longer), die a little (or a lot), and finally be able to defend yourself with your drones after the lock holds. In other words, the "auto-defense" by drones works best when you least need it.


A few basic "rules" can describe what I believe to be the appropriate behavior for all drones that would address these issues.

- If a drone is given direct instructions (attack a target, orbit ship, return to drone bay), it should not do anything else until it has achieved its objective (destroyed target or docked) (this does not apply for orbiting), it is given new instructions, it goes outside the max control range (or not depending on implementation), it is destroyed, or the controlling ship leaves area.
- Drones should always automatically return to orbit the ship when not currently under orders. An alternate solution would be to allow for the player to select a desired action for when they are not under orders: remain in place, return to orbit, attack nearest aggressive target, attack aggressive target nearest controller, revert to previous instruction, etc.
- If having drones "auto-engage" targets is seen as too powerful (since users of turrets or racks would have to target before defending themselves), then remove that feature since it's not always going to happen. If that's not the issue, always have the drones auto-defend unless they are given orders. Having ambiguity about what will happen in a given scenario is more harmful than helpful IMO. As above, you could also offer players a way to choose a default action drones should take upon deployment: defend, standby, etc.
- Just as ships can warp through anything to travel a straight path to its destination, drones should be able to travel completely unhindered back to the ship when given an instruction to dock or orbit.

Implementing these rules would enhance gameplay, prevent or slow the mass exodus of Gallente pilots to Caldari ships, and would not affect balancing.

Gaarai
Posted - 2007.01.29 22:18:00 - [86]
 

Since I got very verbose there, I'll have to put my wishlist here.

- Each drone (and by inheritance, drone group) should have the following commands: engage target, orbit target, return to drone bay, hold position, auto-defend, auto-attack, standby
- Hold position allows the drones to stay where they are. This would be helpful for keeping the drones out near enemies that aren't in control range yet.
- Auto-defend would set the drone to automatically engage enemies that attack. The drone would orbit the ship in the absence of attackers. Extending this to allow drones to automatically defend themselves would be very helpful as well. If one is attacked, all the idle units set to defend will attack the aggressor.
- Auto-attack allows the drone to automatically engage targets, but it only engages those that have been targeted.
- Standby makes the drone idly orbit the ship no matter what is happening.

All commands (including group commands) should be able to be dragged from the drone interface to the control UI for the rest of the ship components. This not only gives visual feedback for what command a drone has been given, but it also allows for standard hot-key control, which is badly needed. Nothing is worse in a big fight than having to fumble through right-click menus just to issue commands to your weapons effectively.

As noted by others, drone hp should be increased. Since the only way to destroy the weapons of an attacking ship is to destroy the ship itself and the ships got a boost to hp, it would stand to reason that a similar boost in hp to drones would be in order since they are a drone-user's primary weapon. By no means do I think it's a good idea to make the things too strong, but I do think it's appropriate to give them the same treatment as all the other damage absorbing entities have been given.

As much as I like the idea of being able to tell the drones to only auto-engage certain targets, I think that gives too much power to drone users since I know I'd use it to automatically pick off those webber frigs without having to target them, thus defeating their defense of a very small sig radius.


None of these items should modify balance at all (the hp issue should help restore balance) but will go a long way to making drone use much less tedious.

Alan Bell
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.01.30 07:30:00 - [87]
 

i tend to only be fighting guristas these days, and i have yet to notice any problems with sentry drones (i think i use wardens). they always seem to fire once i press engage targets, if not, i have a lag spike as i deploy them and once in a while i end up with a insta popped frig.

SangSuelle
Posted - 2007.01.30 11:02:00 - [88]
 

/me signs.

Jenea
Gallente
The Copernicus Institute
Posted - 2007.01.31 19:58:00 - [89]
 

No hardwiring, 3 modules with no variations, no drone damage rigs, and a handful of ships with meaningful drone mods. Hate to say it, but after going 2.7 million SP down the drone path, I'm learning how to fly something other than a Gallente ship -- the sooner you forget about drones being your primary damage source the more you will enjoy Caldari Online.

xenorx
0utbreak
Posted - 2007.01.31 21:04:00 - [90]
 

Yes a little drone love please!

Better UI, seperate from overview and more commands.

Smarter drones that dont just wander off or hump each other.

Check info that would actually show the proper skill effected stats.



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