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blankseplocked Drones - they need love too
 
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Chia
Caldari
Red Planet
Posted - 2007.01.15 14:29:00 - [31]
 

/Signed

Please fix - or make it so that launching a single missile aggroes entire mission stages Wink

Valarkin
Posted - 2007.01.15 14:32:00 - [32]
 

/me signs.

Drones need the lovins.

Max Kentarii
Gallente
Nordic Endeavour
Posted - 2007.01.15 15:14:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Max Kentarii on 15/01/2007 22:17:52
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Feek
Ogres are the worst, someone in this thread already stated that they often get part way to their target and then wander off elsewhere. I've only had this particular problem with Ogres. Awful things, I quite simply won't use them any more.


It's the same with all drones, if they cannot attack the assigned target after a while, they will switch to a closer target. Ogres are just the slowest of them all, so it happens more often that they chase their targets for XX seconds (or just approach) and cannot engage, so they switch.


My own experiences doesn't support your statement since Ogre IIs change their mind yet again after I've told them to engage my preferred target.

It kinda goes like this:

1) I tell them to attack a target, let's say 70km away from their current location. 2 of them make it all the way, 3 of them starts to scatter.

2) Since I'm babysitting them, I'm telling them to attack my target yet again. This time, they are only 20-30km away, but yet 1-2 of those remaining 3 don't make there this time either.

3) 3rd time's a charm in most cases.

And no.. they don't pick a closer target, since the closest target when they decide to desert is in fact my preferred target.

Another neat option would be to tell your drones to kill ships within a given range.
Having a long drone range isn't always practical when you want them to stay close and take care of those pesky frigs.

(Embarassed typo.. meant 70km of course.. not 700km)

xxWhistler
Lucian Alliance
Arcane Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.15 15:21:00 - [34]
 

I completely agree. Lately I have not been able to command my Ogres to even get on target before they change their minds about what to attack. Please either:
+ code us an optional toggle as to whether we want our drones to auto-target
-OR-
+ at least allow me to hotkey "engage target" so I can just keep spamming the button

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2007.01.15 15:40:00 - [35]
 

well yes all on issues mentioned here.. /signed

the ogre II tend to do it with targets that are over 40 km apart, the other heavy t2 only do it at larger distances, it prolly has to do with some silly while loop and drone speed.. berserker II's seem to 'listen' better but they're just in range twice as fast, use em on targets at 90 km and they will display similar behaviour.

The drones getting stuck on eachother is a real drone loser, even if you are very skilled at using drones, you can lose drone because 2 of em end up at 1.55-1.8 km from you moving slower than a webber domi..

The aggro rules are pathetic, i love the idea of having missiles act the same (ie if a missile is within aggro range of the npc they would aggro drones, they would also aggro missiles) but seriously we could easily lose this one..

After we get the bugs fixed for drones we can start looking at the rest of the stuff missing for drones, like bindable commands and UI, and maybe even make them inventable, give us the t2 sentry, t2 drone mods, a dmg mod (normal low slot as any dmg mod is), maybe even some hardwired implants anyone?

I've said it before and i'll state it again: Drones and drone users have been getting shafted on a yearly basis for about 3 years now.. If you ever find the time devs, give em some love.. especially on the bug department !!

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2007.01.15 16:23:00 - [36]
 

I encounter or subscribe to all the problems the OP describes.

It seems as if, when I use my drones (any type) on targets farther than 20km away, they will lose their way. The only way to remove the problem to some extend is when I use a target painter on the target. This, however, only reduces problem (only one or two drones get lost). This problem has existed in the game for as long as I know but recently (after the Revelations update) has become much worse. I simply can not understand why this problem hasn't been fixed yet.

The lack of HP of drones is especially telling since the HP increase for all the player ships. We all protested this before the update. Told exactly what was going to happen. Now it has happened exactly as predicted and now something needs to be done about it. Drones, and especially fighters, were too vulnerable before the patch, now they are nothing less than fragile. Either increase drone HP or decrease signature radius on drones but something needs to be done.

I hardly ever have CTDs, so I hardly ever lose drones to them. Moreover I try to aggro the room to me (not difficult in some missions) so they don't attack the drones. I see no problem here because of lack of experience.

Those missions that mass aggro on drones are still broken and, again, have been broken for ages. I'm under the impression though that the number of missions where this happens is less than it was. Probably because mission were removed. I just hope that CCP will go the last mile as well and corrects the ones that are left. From the dev-blogs I learn that CCP is going to rewrite missions. This should be a priority when they do so.

Drone controls in the UI is dreadful. Always has been, from the beginning. A large number of suggestions have been made to change this, all of which vastly superior to what we have right now. Why this hasn't been acted upon boggles the mind. It is almost as if CCP doesn't want people to use drones.

The drones-stuck bug has also been known for ages. Demonstrated, screenshots taken, frapped, you name it. It appears that CCP is unable to act on this as well. We've heard a litany of excuses for this bug and why it can't be fixed. What we haven't heard, and this goes for the above as well, is that CCP is actually going to do something about it.

I don't think we drone users are asking for to much. It should be clear by now that the drone UI is horrendous and should be replaced/upgraded. We've been cursing it for 3 years now, what is CCP waiting for? For the other points made, all we want is for the drones to work as expected. Nothing but bug fixes and forgotten updates.

I dare to say that of all aspects of EVE, drones are the worst implemented. It seems that almost nothing works as it should and when it does, it does so in a rather poor way. I just hope that CCP is going to change this before Kali 2. I think we've waited long enough for it.

R'adeh
Gallente
Storm Solutions
Posted - 2007.01.15 16:28:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Max Kentarii
1) I tell them to attack a target, let's say 700km away from their current location...


And I thought I had good drone skills Smile If my drones were able to move 700km away from me I'd be a happy camper...

Not making fun of you btw, just bumping the most important thread in the ship section of the EVE-O forums YARRRR!!

Ashurian
Princeps Corp
T e r c i o s
Posted - 2007.01.15 17:10:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Ashurian on 15/01/2007 17:08:44
/signed all

drones are broken and you can see here

drone story

the signature that i made for a corp mate Razz

Centurin
Confederation Navy Research
Epsilon Fleet
Posted - 2007.01.15 17:20:00 - [39]
 

Drones have always been borked. After every patch, they get bugged even more . In Revelations, it was drones attacking gang members. Typical CCP response goes like this..

Players: Drones are Bugged!!

Tux: They are? We did hours of testings and can't recreate it.

Months later after a bazillion bug reports they decide to fix it. But ONLY if its a major issue. As long as drones aren't killing friendlies, it's not worthy enough to fix.

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.01.15 17:26:00 - [40]
 

It would also help if CCP turned off collision on drones. Once they start humping each other they take a long-ass time to get back in the drone bay.

Maeltstome
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.01.15 17:31:00 - [41]
 

With 5 mediums drones, drone int etc.etc. - you can pull off 100 dps easily with Tech I drones against 50% resistances... i know this because ive used them.

Factor in the bonus from something like the dominix, then drone durability, then the fact you already have plenty of turret hardpoints. From a non gallente point of view, id say stop whining. From a 'minmatar flying gallente ships' point of view, id say shut up - cause drones are fine, they just need a bit of extra attention and the rewards will speak for themselfs. Drone 'randomly' attacking things is actually the ai going 'well, hes agressed to my master, and my master has him locked.... so i recon maybe he wants to kill my master, and my master wants him dead' - if you dont like them agressing of there own free will, assign drone only targets and shoot other targets by yourself. Just pay attention and dont expect CCP to invent more and more brilliant ways from drones to get even more ridiculous.

Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2007.01.15 18:42:00 - [42]
 

Stand up for your drones!

Steppa
Gallente
Posted - 2007.01.15 18:47:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kruel
It would also help if CCP turned off collision on drones. Once they start humping each other they take a long-ass time to get back in the drone bay.


Honestly, when is the last time you saw this happen? I used to fly an Ishtar with 15 ogre II's. It happened all the time back then. But when they reduced the number you could fly, it stopped. I have not seen that happen since Red Moon Rising.

space fox
A Private Space Venture
Posted - 2007.01.15 18:49:00 - [44]
 

Signed

Horchan
Gallente
Posted - 2007.01.19 20:00:00 - [45]
 

I fully endorse the OP.

I would like to emphasize point #5. Please allow us to hotkey drone commands.

Private Iron
Posted - 2007.01.19 20:42:00 - [46]
 

/signed

CrimsonSky
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.19 20:46:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Maeltstome
With 5 mediums drones, drone int etc.etc. - you can pull off 100 dps easily with Tech I drones against 50% resistances... i know this because ive used them.

Factor in the bonus from something like the dominix, then drone durability, then the fact you already have plenty of turret hardpoints. From a non gallente point of view, id say stop whining. From a 'minmatar flying gallente ships' point of view, id say shut up - cause drones are fine, they just need a bit of extra attention and the rewards will speak for themselfs. Drone 'randomly' attacking things is actually the ai going 'well, hes agressed to my master, and my master has him locked.... so i recon maybe he wants to kill my master, and my master wants him dead' - if you dont like them agressing of there own free will, assign drone only targets and shoot other targets by yourself. Just pay attention and dont expect CCP to invent more and more brilliant ways from drones to get even more ridiculous.


With 5 autocannons, med projectile etc.etc. - you can pull off 2000 dps easily with Tech I autocannons against 50% resistances... I know this because I've used them.

See, I can make up random nonsense 'facts' too. Doesn't make them right.

With max skills in a non-Drone boat, 5x Hammerhead II get around 150 DPS. On 0% resist structure. On 50% resist they'd be getting about 75 DPS. So I'd love for you to explain to me how your T1 drones are getting 33% more DPS on 50% resists than my T2 drones are.


And for the drones randomly aggressing... you do realize that they attack targets who aren't locked, yes? And that these people are complaining not about drones with no orders attacking something, but rather drones with targets attacking other things, yes?

As for myself... I've not had many of the problems these people are talking about, and I use drones regularly. However, I don't use Heavy Drones, which seem to be the ones most likely to experience these bugs. The one I have encountered is the 'drones stopping 500 meters outside scoop range' bug, and that is extremely, extremely annoying.

KaptnSparrow
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.19 23:05:00 - [48]
 

/signed

ok I never use heavy drones, cause lack of skills for tech II and wont use a non tech II drones.

but my mediums have there own will....

me: atack target A
drone: yes master
me: what takes so long
drones: we voting right now to attack target B instead of A...
me: wtf
drones: result of vote: 1 + 3 = attack B, 2 + 4 attack A, 5 = goes for target C
me: drones get the ... to target A and kill it
drones: please watch your language with the attitude we wont do anything!
me: so this is what you doing right now basically?, so come back!
drones: yes master...
drones: 5 oh I was supposed to attack target A, lets do it
me: nvm i'm in a pod now, have a nice day...

so please fix them!

...this post represents my opinion on this topic, do not ask my drones, cause they will ask for things like vacation, salary, better maintenance and so one...

...please don't come to me and ask for talking drones, they are hell of annoying!
Exclamation

Kloro Draz
Gallente
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2007.01.20 00:20:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Kloro Draz on 20/01/2007 00:16:39
Originally by: X99 Z990

I dont see how the HP increase nerfed drones anymore, drones should be easy to kill or they have no real weakness,


That's like saying "if guns don't spontaneously explode, then they're overpowered." It would actually make more sense for missles and guns to explode, since such things occasionally happen in real life. Personally, I can't wait for the "use missles, everything in the room targets you" deadspace room.

Drones have plenty of weaknesses:


  • lack of range

  • the necessity of travel to get into range, and the lack of speed thereof

  • large signature compared with ships of the same damage

  • the whole 'loosing tracking because of training drone navigation' bug.

  • Lack of named/faction drones make T2 drones mega expensive.


Originally by: Steppa

Honestly, when is the last time you saw this happen? I used to fly an Ishtar with 15 ogre II's. It happened all the time back then. But when they reduced the number you could fly, it stopped. I have not seen that happen since Red Moon Rising.

I saw it happen a few weeks ago, either right before or right after Revelations was introduced. Lost a Hammerhead II :(

Originally by: Maeltstome
Drone 'randomly' attacking things is actually the ai going 'well, hes agressed to my master, and my master has him locked.... so i recon maybe he wants to kill my master, and my master wants him dead' - if you dont like them agressing of there own free will, assign drone only targets and shoot other targets by yourself.

Nope, in RMR I've seen drones go after targets that I had not locked, nor had locked me. Worse yet, they zoomed past closer targets that had aggressed me.

Ashurn
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2007.01.20 00:55:00 - [50]
 

I too, hope for CCP to fix the issues with drones as well as the missions that have mass aggro upon drones release.

/signed Very Happy

Tragus
Gallente
Integrated Defence Extraction and Acquisition
Posted - 2007.01.20 23:39:00 - [51]
 

/signed

Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari
Final Agony
Posted - 2007.01.20 23:54:00 - [52]
 

kinda sad that thread is a year old and still relevant to the current problems. btw fix drones.... AGAIN FFS.

Ardwyna
Posted - 2007.01.21 01:30:00 - [53]
 

/signed x1000.

Also, auto-targeting systems aren't really working, and those would help with drones :).

Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.01.21 03:21:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Tribunal
5) Drone controls in the UI are just horrible. No bind able commands and no hotkeys for drones in... what, 3 years now.

Gen Ap
Gallente
Corpus PCG
Posted - 2007.01.21 12:52:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Steppa
Originally by: Kruel
It would also help if CCP turned off collision on drones. Once they start humping each other they take a long-ass time to get back in the drone bay.


Honestly, when is the last time you saw this happen? I used to fly an Ishtar with 15 ogre II's. It happened all the time back then. But when they reduced the number you could fly, it stopped. I have not seen that happen since Red Moon Rising.


It does happen occasionally, but not very often. I've had it happen at least once this week.

Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
Posted - 2007.01.21 14:47:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Rigsta on 21/01/2007 15:10:36
Originally by: Jin Freaks

There is nothing wrong with my machine AMD 3800 + gyg ram etc etc and I have at least 4 CTDs a week.


lol Rolling Eyes Just because you have a decent system doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it. It can still be overflowing with spyware/adware or have a dodgy graphics or audio driver.

On-topic, the isues that fixing are:

- Drones getting bored, and going to attack something else or just plain orbitting the controller. Particularly evident w/ Ogres travelling long distances.
- Non-combat/scout drones returning at ORBIT speed instead of MWD speed when ordered to return to the ship. Consistently reproducable, seems to happen on all ECM, logistics and combat utility drones.
- Afore-mentioned mission aggro... though I've not experienced this myself. It's only happened to me when my drones go within agro distance of another group.

- Loss of drones after a CTD/disconnection. Frustrating, and reimbursment petitions aren't a good workaround.

welsh wizard
0utbreak
KrautbreaK
Posted - 2007.01.21 15:10:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: welsh wizard on 21/01/2007 15:15:21
Tbh I think its ok atm (wrt drone hitpoints). Killing drones is actually a realistic thing to do before you get ganked in 10 seconds by the ridiculous damage output of the Gallente ship as a whole.

The ship HP changes give the other races a chance to fight back. The other thing you have to remember of course, the Dominix, Ishtar, Vexor and Iskur are still arguably the best ships in their class.

Drone boats are fine and most definitely do not need any kind of boost.

edit: Of course I guess the fact that other races use drones aswell is a fair enough argument. It's a fine line CCP walk though. Most Gallente ships outperform their opposites in most regards already, care would be needed to avoid tipping the balance even further.

Wrt the bug fixes it does seem ridiculous that drones are still unresponsive after all this time. Perhaps they should just code drones to ignore NPC aggression altogether and only attack when asked to? Don't know whether thats possible or not.

Leumas Ebmocnud
Nebula Rasa Vanguard
Nebula Rasa
Posted - 2007.01.21 15:20:00 - [58]
 

The only problem i have with drones is geting lights to return to drone bay. This has been a persistent problem for as long as i can remember. Heavys and mediums behave these days, and do tend to return at mwd speeds, but light drones generally just stop in space forcing you to get within 1500m of them before they will listen to your commands.

Very Annoying, and NEEDS a fix as soon as possible

Reto
The Last Resort
Posted - 2007.01.21 16:53:00 - [59]
 

/SIGNED
/SIGNED
/SIGNED

they are to weak. after rev droneboats lost their spice by at least 25%. the drone ai is still dumb as hell.
try clicking "return to dronebay" while combat and u just lost 12,5mil with hammerheads II flying outside.
an increase in drone travelling speed would be nice aswell.


Xiaoting Wang
Posted - 2007.01.21 17:06:00 - [60]
 

Oh, btw, whining about drones is absolutely useless. I've been doing it for longer than a year and a half with absolutely no results. I don't know what kind of stimulus the devs have to receive in order for drones to be places on their TOFIX list. Maybe the code is simply so ****ed up that they're afraid of touching it and just pretend not to hear us.
A year ago they kept says that they COULD NOT reproduce any of the drone problems we were mentioning to them, hence we were just making things up.
What kind of subscription do I have to pay to make devs fix their own game? Is there like a higher quality subscription, maybe 50 bucks a month, which gives one the right to be believed by the devs when bugs are reported?


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