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blankseplocked Celestis versus Blackbird for NPC-hunting
 
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Cremytos
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2003.12.02 14:31:00 - [1]
 

Right now I have a Celestis with 3x250mm medium Railguns and 2 H50 launchers with light missiles ( because of the cost to use them). Hunting NPC pirates up to 8K. Thinking about switching to a BlackBird as I am Caldari and BlackBird has higher shield and more medium slots.

Celestisen do good damage on 30 km distance (30-50 per shot) and most pirates dont even come close. Will I be able to maintain this with the Blackbird?

GavTheMighty
Posted - 2003.12.02 14:49:00 - [2]
 

Well for starters dont be such a wimp lol I fight 20k rats in my Merlin with no real problems. If we are talking NPC killing I noticed that some nice emp damage lasers work very well with kinetic damage missiles the lasers knock out there shields quickly and the missiles finish the job off. Very Happy With a BB you can have 3 launchers and one nice laser to knock out the shield you could even mix the missile types to suit your needs two explosive or kinetic and one emp for instance! And if I can make one other suggestion buy some BP's of the missiles you use off the market they are not that expensive and build them yourself. Better in the long run and you can use crap loot from pirates for the minerals for more missiles! YAY! Very Happy

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.12.02 16:27:00 - [3]
 

Yeah, its true - you should be able to take on 20-30k rats in a frigate np. I use a rifter for this, and works beautifully.

For chaining rats in a cruiser, a thorax is highly recommended. 3x250 with drones will sort you out np. 7 heavy drones will eat a cruiser rat in seconds.

BB is more of a PvP cruiser.

Jovin Ketils
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2003.12.02 18:03:00 - [4]
 

Hmm... get a nice heavy drone carrier like a Vexor or Thorax, pack a med shield booster or two and just squat in a 20k spawn untill you get bored or your cargo hold fills up. No need for ammo or anything else, well a few blasters might come in handy when things get out of hand.

Love, Jovin

PS: always insure your ship though. Wink

Shintoko Akahoshi
Risen Angels
Posted - 2003.12.02 18:13:00 - [5]
 

Yeah. What Jovin said.

I've hunted rats in both a Thorax and a Blackbird. The Thorax is a much more capable rat-hunter (not even counting drones, as I typically don't use them against npcs), because of the increased cap and low slots (for cap relays). You can do it in a blackbird, but you've got to be a lot more careful of your cap. With my Thorax, I can practically just leave the guns, shield booster and hardener on all day.

Cairhien
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2003.12.02 20:48:00 - [6]
 

Since you are into Caldari cruisers why not a Moa. My moa eats up rats all day, 30k not a problem.

Eltigre
Posted - 2003.12.03 00:35:00 - [7]
 

Any ship that can fire torpedos or cruise missiles works fine too - 2-3 torps and the rat is dead. yeah, I know torpedos cost a bit more than using drones but ya gotta love the nice kaboom the rat makes when being blown apart by torpedos. Heck, I even use torpedos on 2.5k isk rats in 0.4 space and I got no probs collecting more than enough ores off the loot to make more torpedos for the next go round.Shocked

Nybbas
Guiding Hand Social Club
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2003.12.03 02:25:00 - [8]
 

The best possible setup for a pirate farming cruiser, is 2 hardeners, a medium shield booster, your drones, and 5 blasters. with damage mods/ cap power relays as needed to keep your items running, or whatever cpu or powercore boosters you need for better blasters. You can farm a spawn with great efficiency, better than any other setup anyone will tell you, this is of course if you are farming guristas terrorists. or any other pirate that will stay at a close range withing say 6 km.

Slithereen
Amarr
Posted - 2003.12.03 04:00:00 - [9]
 


20 and 30K Gurista, Angel and Serpentis rats are all short range floosies that can't decently hit a target. 8K Sansha Manslayers or 10K Butchers do more damage than these guys.

When your frigate can take out 20K or 30K Gurista, Angel and Serpetis rats, eh eh eh, you may sing a different tune against a 30K Blood Arch Engraver or a 30K Sansha Ravager.

Slithereen
Amarr
Posted - 2003.12.03 05:06:00 - [10]
 


oh, for NPC hunting, the Blackbird does not hold a candle to a Celestis. You will have some difficulty putting 3 250mm railguns with a Blackbird, and if you do, your missile launcher has to be only one of the small kinds, not an H-50 class type of launcher. Compared to the Celestis which can fit 3 250mms and 2 H-50s.

In addition to that the Celestis has damage bonus on hybrid guns like railguns while the Blackbird only has range. The Celestis is more tolerant with ammuntion, but for the Blackbird, you better be using antimatter, uranium or plutonium.

Finally, the Celestis can still release a small cloud of drones while the Blackbird cannot. Sitting in a spawn, even 8 scout drones amount to significant damage to any cruiser class NPC.

Zarquon Beeblebrox
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.12.03 09:54:00 - [11]
 

I have a hard time understanding how you take out 20k and 30k rats in a merling or any other frigates. I would love to read a litle story pretending to be a live happening of your frigate taking out a spawns with 1x30k and 3x20k, where some of the rats at least use missiles.

Also i would love to read about what skills you have to do this and how you fit your ship.

Looking forward to read your storry.

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.12.03 10:22:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
I have a hard time understanding how you take out 20k and 30k rats in a merling or any other frigates. I would love to read a litle story pretending to be a live happening of your frigate taking out a spawns with 1x30k and 3x20k, where some of the rats at least use missiles.

Also i would love to read about what skills you have to do this and how you fit your ship.

Looking forward to read your storry.


Well, its a combination of skill, brains and speed. Try it sometime. Get a frigate, find a 20k spawn and kill them. After a few hours of playing, and experimenting with tactics and loadouts, you'll find out it can be done. Good luck.

Miso x

Slithereen2
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:10:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Slithereen2 on 03/12/2003 12:11:25
Quote:
I have a hard time understanding how you take out 20k and 30k rats in a merling or any other frigates. I would love to read a litle story pretending to be a live happening of your frigate taking out a spawns with 1x30k and 3x20k, where some of the rats at least use missiles.



The real secret is picking the right 20K rat.

For example the 20K Gurista Terrorist (Osprey) is a real turkey. They can't hit beyond 5km, and circling them at 10km you can pick them off.

The Angel Depredator is a slightly better turkey because at least it could shoot missiles. The missiles are the real threat to you because the dual 180mm cannons it uses are not. The missiles are Havocs with explosive damage, dangerous only if you don't have shields. But with shields, the damage is only around 60, due to the basic shield resistance against explosive damage.

The Blood Arch Reaver is a little more challenging with its focused medium pulse with x-ray crystal. It does not have missiles, so you're safe beyond 10km. It does have an incredible targeting range for an augoror.

The 20K Serpentis I have not tried, but an Exeqeuror with blasters does not sound threatening.

The 20K rat that you really need to be very careful with a frigate is the Sansha Ravisher. And I mean careful because if you go under 20K, that thing will web you, start knicking you with focused medium pulses with X-ray Ms, and fire Havoc heavy missiles.

Even with the same bounty, there is quite a the difference between that of a Sansha Ravisher and a Gurista Terrorist.


Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:13:00 - [14]
 

Thats right on the money Slithereen.

Zarquon Beeblebrox
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:31:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 03/12/2003 12:32:58
Quote:
Edited by: Slithereen2 on 03/12/2003 12:11:25
Quote:
I have a hard time understanding how you take out 20k and 30k rats in a merling or any other frigates. I would love to read a litle story pretending to be a live happening of your frigate taking out a spawns with 1x30k and 3x20k, where some of the rats at least use missiles.




The real secret is picking the right 20K rat.

For example the 20K Gurista Terrorist (Osprey) is a real turkey. They can't hit beyond 5km, and circling them at 10km you can pick them off.

The Angel Depredator is a slightly better turkey because at least it could shoot missiles. The missiles are the real threat to you because the dual 180mm cannons it uses are not. The missiles are Havocs with explosive damage, dangerous only if you don't have shields. But with shields, the damage is only around 60, due to the basic shield resistance against explosive damage.

The Blood Arch Reaver is a little more challenging with its focused medium pulse with x-ray crystal. It does not have missiles, so you're safe beyond 10km. It does have an incredible targeting range for an augoror.

The 20K Serpentis I have not tried, but an Exeqeuror with blasters does not sound threatening.

The 20K rat that you really need to be very careful with a frigate is the Sansha Ravisher. And I mean careful because if you go under 20K, that thing will web you, start knicking you with focused medium pulses with X-ray Ms, and fire Havoc heavy missiles.

Even with the same bounty, there is quite a the difference between that of a Sansha Ravisher and a Gurista Terrorist.




Thank you , but this is not close to why i have a hard time beleving it. First a osprey are a cruser and i have never had problem killing any 30k rats in that.

Im talking about guritas rats in frigates. I have yet to see a 6k rat that dont use missiles.

So i would like to here some about how you actualy go on to kill a spawn with more then one rat (as easy as you make it sound) in a merlin or any frigate out there.

What i think, is that you have 4-5 mil skill points focused on gunnery, enginering, electronics, mechanics and by this have the skills to use "heavy" weponds on your frigate that a normal frigate pilote dont have cap, and or power to use. When im in a frigate i have no way of using two 150mm hybrids, and anything better then a civilian shield booster.

So a litle storry of whats skills, what modules and what tactics is used to kill more then one 30k or 20k rat would still be really intresting to read.

Sable Moran
Gallente
Moran Light Industries
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:39:00 - [16]
 


Quote:

The 20K Serpentis I have not tried, but an Exeqeuror with blasters does not sound threatening.



It is not threatening. Beyond about 5km it simply does not hit you and at closer range even when it hits you (about 1 shot out of 3) it does only 1-12 points of damage.

I have found that using the exequror rat to speed up the spwan rate is an excellent tactic. The damage it does is negligible (lower than the damage done by the 6k-10k frigate rats), you can just leave it circling you and consentrate on shooting the other rats.

j0sephine
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:42:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: j0sephine on 03/12/2003 12:44:18

"Thank you , but this is not close to why i have a hard time beleving it. First a osprey are a cruser and i have never had problem killing any 30k rats in that."

"For example the 20K Gurista Terrorist (Osprey) is a real turkey. They can't hit beyond 5km, and circling them at 10km you can pick them off."

The rat in question is the 20k cruiser. Given its effective gun range it can be easily killed with a frigate armed with 150mm rails and lead/thorium ammo, and keeping safe distance.

And yes, strange as it might sound, it doesn't use missiles. (neither does 20k Serpentis cruiser for that matter, although it can fire Defenders to protect itself iirc)

fras
Amarr
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:50:00 - [18]
 

I've killed a number of 20k rats firing missiles in a Punisher. I just hung at 20k distance with some medium beams fitted with radio's and a smartbomb for missile defence - I have very few skill points.
Can't say i've ever chained any though.

Zarquon Beeblebrox
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2003.12.03 12:57:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 03/12/2003 12:44:18

"Thank you , but this is not close to why i have a hard time beleving it. First a osprey are a cruser and i have never had problem killing any 30k rats in that."

"For example the 20K Gurista Terrorist (Osprey) is a real turkey. They can't hit beyond 5km, and circling them at 10km you can pick them off."

The rat in question is the 20k cruiser. Given its effective gun range it can be easily killed with a frigate armed with 150mm rails and lead/thorium ammo, and keeping safe distance.

And yes, strange as it might sound, it doesn't use missiles. (neither does 20k Serpentis cruiser for that matter, although it can fire Defenders to protect itself iirc)


Ok, i see my pore english also result in pore understanding of whats actualy writen. Yes the RAT use a osprey not me ;) thank you for making this cleare hehe *blushes*

Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.12.03 13:48:00 - [20]
 

My rifter loadout for rat hunting:

hi: 3x280 gallium
med: 1xab
lo: gyro weapon mod, power diagnostic

Kills 20k pirates with ease: Power diag recharges the shields very quickly on a rifter.

I have electronics and engineering skills at lvl 5. Small proj lvl 3, gunnery lvl 4.

Load out, and join the fun.


Kin Hanyerec
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2003.12.03 15:13:00 - [21]
 

i have hunt sometimes rats with a punisher :

hi: -x3 250mm (i'd love to have my x3 dual 150mm carbine )
-x1 autotargeting /micro smartbomb or nothing
med:-x1 small clarity ward
-x1 shield hardener
low:-x4Power diagnostic

the main problem with this fitting is that the cpu is very "short" and it's best at close range : 3-5km :p

Slithereen
Amarr
Posted - 2003.12.03 23:42:00 - [22]
 


"Thank you , but this is not close to why i have a hard time beleving it. First a osprey are a cruser and i have never had problem killing any 30k rats in that."

Zarquon,

Let me say this again.

The Gurista Terrorist is truly a turkey. It can't hit crap anything more than 5000m. It's slow, and it's a pig. It does not have missiles, and it only uses lame dual 150mm railguns or some blaster. It uses an Osprey for a hull but it certainly does not make full use of the Osprey's true capabilities. It is hardly a decent example of one.

If you actually encounter a Gurista Terrorist, you will truly know what I mean. I was pleasantly surprised to found out how easy to kill one.

I bet the Serpentis 20K is easy too. The Blood in the Augoror (Arch-Reaver) is a bit more of a challenge since its effective range is longer to 10 to 12km, and the laser it uses is a lot more accurate than the Terrorist.

Now the 20K Angel Depradator is something else because it spams missiles, but the guns are useless short range ones (dual 180s which is what this rat drops). Most Angel cruisers are just autocannon boats spamming missiles.

The hardest 20K of all is the Sansha Ravisher. While the Gurista is not hard to kill with a frigate, you would be nuts to take this one with a frigate. It spams missiles, it webs, and its focused medium pulse with X-ray M (you can tell from the green beams) is the best weapon among the 20k. I've seen people attempt to take one out and they usually skimper away after getting knocked by its Havoc missiles and shield stripped by its lasers. Despite the same bounty, there is an astounding difference in the fight quality of a Sansha Ravisher vs a Gurista Terrorist. In one conclusion though, I do find Sansha to be collectively the toughest and most annoying of the NPC pirate groups.



Miso
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.12.04 09:13:00 - [23]
 

I'd go along with that.

There is a serpentis rat in a gallente cruiser (can't remember which one) that is a real turkey too. You can effectively leave that one orbitting and firing at you all day and it won't kill you.

Sansha's are a pain.


 

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