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blankseplocked Caldari HACs still the red-headed stepshildren?
 
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Sergis
Caldari
Death By Teacup
Posted - 2006.12.28 17:15:00 - [1]
 

I recently read a post back in the day (begining of 2005) about how bad the Caldari Hacs were in comparison... I wasn't playin EVE back then but apparently Eagle/Cerberus sucked.

These days those are the most used Hacs that I see (might be a bad sample flying in 0.0 gallente space). And from my experience and many other's they are great ships. Besides the fact that they are a little too specific (in their roles) I think they have alot of potential. I'm not saying that they can own any other HAC, I'm just saying they are definately not inferior.

So can Caldari HACs own any others, no... Almost any 1v1 fight comes down to setup specialisation and SP. I think we are far from Caldari-Online.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.12.28 18:38:00 - [2]
 

The caldari online comment comes from the way that missile lobers can waltz through most missions and npcing situations while looking at dirty websites, drinking a cup of tea and doing the ironing.

It is only once you get into pvp that they start to look normal. Pretty much every ship has it's advantages and disadvantages. With the cerb you get good damage and tank but loose speed and tackle. With the eagle you get great sniping but loose out on damage...

They are probably quite well balanced in the scheme of things.

Dread Phantom
Caldari
End Game.
Posted - 2006.12.28 18:44:00 - [3]
 

An Eagle couldnt kill an afk HAC

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.12.28 19:06:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Dread Phantom
An Eagle couldnt kill an afk HAC


Vaga can't hit a frig from over 70km away. So that must be rubbish as well.

Verus Potestas
Caldari
SP4RTANS
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2006.12.28 19:10:00 - [5]
 

Caldari HACs used to suck balls, now the cerb is pertty badass.

Khavi Vetali
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.28 19:16:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Dread Phantom
An Eagle couldnt kill an afk HAC


Not true...a blaster eagle would smoke an afk HAC ;p

Dread Phantom
Caldari
End Game.
Posted - 2006.12.28 20:08:00 - [7]
 

a sniper eagle has the alpha of a stiff breeze and with the hp increase its even more useless

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.12.28 20:52:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Goumindong on 28/12/2006 20:51:52
A rail Eagle tops out at ~ 235 DPS with antimatter at 40KM optimal and 15km falloff[250mmII, no range, 3 dmg], 275 DPS/with 20km optimal and 15km falloff with Javelin.[155 all the way out to 146+15 with no range mods]

A blaster eagle tops out at about 425 DPS with Null[365 with Anitmatter] with an optimal of 7.9km and a fallof of 3.125km[10.1+6.25km for antimatter]

To contrast, a Zealot tops out at 489 DPS with conflag with an optimal of 11.25km and a falloff off 5 km. Though the Zealot is going to have much worse tracking, and the Zealot wont have a tanking bonus, while being faster.[[email protected] 22.5 + 5km w/multifrequency]

I.E. the Beagle tanks 33% better than the Zealot, the Zealot does 15% more damage than the Beagle, is 26.4% faster, and has about 25% better range. If the Zealot wants a significant range advantage it must give up its DPS advantage over the beagle.

This seems about right to me, the Blaster Eagle isnt stupendiously powerful, but it still puts out plenty of DPS at a decent range, considering it was built to be a sniper, a role it performs quite well.

I would harldy consider the eagle useless. 235 DPS at 40KM is only matched on the HAC level by the Zealot[@245 to 81+10], on battlecruiser level with the Harbinger[@ 320 to 54+10] and at that point they are little more than glass cannons[they also cant reach out to 140+km] after that you have to hit command ships[Astarte @ 275 to 65+15, Absolution @ 366 to 54+10, and im sure the spiepnir as well], none of which except the vulture[which hits as far as the eagle for the same damage] can hit out nearly so far as the eagle. Aside from that you have to get into a battleship.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.12.28 21:01:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Dread Phantom
a sniper eagle has the alpha of a stiff breeze and with the hp increase its even more useless


Rails aren't about alpha, they use dps to deliver damage over time.

250 II rails - 6.38 rof, 3.3 damage mod
720 II Arty - 15.75 rof, 6.9 damage mod

forgive me if I picked the wrong rails to compare...

The eagle is a nasty ship. It just needs to be used in gangs with other snipers. What you are saying is similar to me claiming that my pest with 1400 II's is useless just because I can't one volley pop cara's any more.




Malakai0
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.12.28 21:12:00 - [10]
 

The eagle is a sniper ship, the longest range cruiser in the game and the second longest range ship in the game. What other cruiser can hit out over 200km?

In gatecamps & fleet battles is where eagles shine. Let your fragile cheap tacklers sit on the gate and do thier thing, and when they get someone locked down you take em out with spike from safety 200km away. If an inty tries to mwd to you he's toast.
And in ranged fleet battles just tuck yourself in between a couple sniper bs and take out enemy support vessels while your sniper bs work on the battleships. No other non-battleship can fly with a sniper bs fleet and still be effective.

Dread Phantom
Caldari
End Game.
Posted - 2006.12.28 21:13:00 - [11]
 

but a sniper battleship will be attacking a battleship along with the rest of the fleet, an eagle hits a frig it warps off or changes direction to become unhittable, a fleet of eagles would tear up frigs but who really cares about that

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.12.28 21:23:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dread Phantom
but a sniper battleship will be attacking a battleship along with the rest of the fleet, an eagle hits a frig it warps off or changes direction to become unhittable, a fleet of eagles would tear up frigs but who really cares about that


I do believe that an eagle will be able to hit even an interceptor from long distance. The tracking isnt that bad on railguns, especialy long range rail guns.

It, like most of the other HACs are small gang ships meant to take out smaller targets. A sniping BS+Eagle and a tackler is a deadly combo, the Eagle able to hit the smallest of frigates and the BS able to pound anything else into the ground.

Its no slouch with blasters either.

James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.12.28 21:26:00 - [13]
 

the problem with the eagle and the cerb is the seem more intent on being mini-BS than actual cruisers.

The cerb's pretty good at mission running, for all the same reasons the raven is. PvP, not so hot, although I'd imagine that just got a bit better with heavy assault missiles.

Eagle snipes well, but ... so does a BS. *shrug* I don't think they're much on the other races HACs, but I've never flown 'em, and with the current price tag, I don't think I ever will.

d'hofren
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.12.28 22:37:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Dread Phantom
but a sniper battleship will be attacking a battleship along with the rest of the fleet, an eagle hits a frig it warps off or changes direction to become unhittable, a fleet of eagles would tear up frigs but who really cares about that


We just told you that the eagle was a fleet or gang ship.


ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
Posted - 2006.12.29 01:20:00 - [15]
 

If Zealot and Cerb had arranged to fight. And both set-up the best they can to prepare, the Zealot would win, DPS is far superior. And its tank very high

An Ishtar would pwn a Cerb...

Basically the cerb sucks for pvp, a nice mission runner. End of story....

Sorja
11th Division
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2006.12.29 04:47:00 - [16]
 

Eagle == sucks balls.
It was below average before Revelations, now it's simply lolastic.
Who dies in an interceptor to an Eagle deserves to lose it tbh, I've yet to lose one and I've flown through bublles with 2 sniper eagles pounding on me, leaving without even armor damage and come back to tackle them fingers in the nose.
My Eagle skills are closed to maxed btw, and still hate that ship until it gets a 5th turret slot.

Beagle == below average.
There's not much more to do with that ship if you're not the camper type and you pretty much lose one of the ship bonuses, need to fit a webber, MWD and suffer from the slugginesh of the ship.
If you can land on top of a Zealot or Deimos, you'll win though, but a Brutix would do better.

Cerberus == PvE ship and to date it's outclassed tanking and damage wise by a fully insurable raven.
For PvP, fly a Drake, the Cerb has some bonuses going for it, but not worth the price and the Drake tanks better.
Matter of taste, of course, but nobody could win the Cerberus versus Drake debate.
I don't have tech II HAMs yet, so if you say a Cerb with HAMs is 'teh pwn', I'll give you that.

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.12.29 08:46:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Malakai0
The eagle is a sniper ship, the longest range cruiser in the game and the second longest range ship in the game. What other cruiser can hit out over 200km?


Cerberus?Razz

Sergis
Caldari
Death By Teacup
Posted - 2006.12.29 14:49:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Dread Phantom
An Eagle couldnt kill an afk HAC


Vaga can't hit a frig from over 70km away. So that must be rubbish as well.


WTF, Vagabond might be the best Hac for pvp known to mankind (not the greatest word to use). And for an eagle, If u've actually set foot in 0.0 space you'd understand how real fights happen and would know that an eagle would get like 1-2 minutes of shooting before the other guys can return fire. All he has to do is sit at range and keep flying away from you. Then when you get close he has extra assault launchers to finish the work. Or he can warp out. And who said he was fighting a HAC. Pilots don't just fight equal ships cuz they wanna be fair.

hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
Posted - 2006.12.29 15:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: ReePeR McAllem
If Zealot and Cerb had arranged to fight. And both set-up the best they can to prepare, the Zealot would win, DPS is far superior. And its tank very high

An Ishtar would pwn a Cerb...

Basically the cerb sucks for pvp, a nice mission runner. End of story....


I have flown a cerb since they have came out. I would agree with this poster. i have arranged head to heads with others hac's and seen i would loose. i have about 9mil sp in missles, and shield, cap and resistance skills maxed. the new havy assualts are good against cruisers and frigs but crap for hac's and bs's.

Gunstar Zero
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.29 15:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: hitech redneck
Originally by: ReePeR McAllem
If Zealot and Cerb had arranged to fight. And both set-up the best they can to prepare, the Zealot would win, DPS is far superior. And its tank very high

An Ishtar would pwn a Cerb...

Basically the cerb sucks for pvp, a nice mission runner. End of story....


I have flown a cerb since they have came out. I would agree with this poster. i have arranged head to heads with others hac's and seen i would loose. i have about 9mil sp in missles, and shield, cap and resistance skills maxed. the new havy assualts are good against cruisers and frigs but crap for hac's and bs's.


Cerb could easily out range a zealot shurely?

Trouble is, arranged matched tend to be at 30k - cerb is in it's element at 150k.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.12.29 19:07:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Sergis
Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Dread Phantom
An Eagle couldnt kill an afk HAC


Vaga can't hit a frig from over 70km away. So that must be rubbish as well.


WTF, Vagabond might be the best Hac for pvp known to mankind (not the greatest word to use). And for an eagle, If u've actually set foot in 0.0 space you'd understand how real fights happen and would know that an eagle would get like 1-2 minutes of shooting before the other guys can return fire. All he has to do is sit at range and keep flying away from you. Then when you get close he has extra assault launchers to finish the work. Or he can warp out. And who said he was fighting a HAC. Pilots don't just fight equal ships cuz they wanna be fair.


Round these parts, we call that sarcasm stranger.

KillmAll187
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.29 19:42:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: hitech redneck
Originally by: ReePeR McAllem

An Ishtar would pwn a Cerb...




I chose to pull this part out as I fly and Ishtar as well as a Cerberus. I'm gonna say unless the Ishtar is using EM drones (Rolling Eyes), Cerberus will clean it's clock. My Cerberus can one-volly heavy tech II drones. And that's using heavy missiles. Move to HAM's and it's not even close. I'm gonna say the grass is greener. Now the Eagle OTOH, not so good.

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.29 22:35:00 - [23]
 

"Caldari HACs used to suck balls, now the cerb is pertty badass."

ROFL. The Cerb is pretty baddass? In what universe? The Cerb is nearly worthless these days... the Drake signed the death of the Cerb.

The Cerb is out-tanked by a Drake, it is out dps'd by the drake and it has no drones, unlike the drake. The Drake is the new Cerb and it costs a fraction of the price and you get full insurance payouts on it, making it better in every single area except for range. I find it hard to believe someone will pay 4x more money to get 20km range.

And don't even get started on the Eagle. The Eagle is a sniping ship... but I don't see the point to it over a real sniper like a Rokh now. Tho at least the Eagle has a real role, compared to the worthless Cerb.

Cerb prices are dropping steadily since Kali. They are down over 80 million in the last 6 weeks or so and I predict they will keep dropping to at least a 150-160mil sell price. Even then I don't see why anyone would want one over a drake. Even at 50 million I'd take a drake over a Cerb. And yes, I've flown both... and I've done so on over 50 missions each so I have a lot of experience in both.

MECHcore
FISKL GUARDS
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2006.12.29 22:50:00 - [24]
 

After more then 2 years flying the eagle i can say its definatly worth its isk , altho for pvp i mostly fit it as a nos blastereagle , together with ab , web , scramble.

I have used his ship so many times in battle that i lost the count Smile

Its all nice balanced , the nos feeds ur tank wich is quite strong ,you have propulsion and the dps ouput is good.

And then you have the big eagle , vulture , an awesomeship but another story Laughing

Reprehensable
Posted - 2006.12.29 22:53:00 - [25]
 

I love these kind of posts.

I really wonder if any of the posters even hs any combat experience. I keep seeing the drake is better than the cerb. Well, maybe on paper. But, the drake is slow and in the real world (Razz) speed is important.

Then again, I bet most of the posters are the types that fit AB's for pvpRolling Eyes

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.12.29 23:17:00 - [26]
 

Javelin HAMs on a Cerb are honestly ridiculous.

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.29 23:26:00 - [27]
 

I specifically referenced my experience which I said was 50+ missions with the cerb and drake. It is actually much higher, but I don't have a good count. I did at least enough to get 4 storylines with each ship, I am probably up to 100+ with the drake now. Picking a Cerb for anything PvE related is just insane now imo. The drake is fairly maneuverable with the increased bonus BC's got in the patch.

Waxau
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2006.12.30 01:18:00 - [28]
 

Oh geez its one of these threads i see....i kept seeing this thinking 'ahh ill not flame ill not flame' BUT HOLY COW! This is just too easy!

Firstly, wtf about the drake?!

So i take it the drake can go 600ms with an afterburner? with a full set of BCU in the lows? And tank at 150km range? Drake cant do that for missions. Pvp - In the time it takes for the drakes missiles to travel 60km, my cerb would have hit the target 1.5 times from 150km away due to the velocity bonus. Now considering i can use the low slots to my advantage due to the range, that adds up to an even greater dps if needs be (pvp situation).

Now regarding the eagle...you complete nublets.

So - yeah people can fly the rokh. Yeah the rokh needs less skills - but heres the facts now lads..

Eagle can hit at 250km if fitted correctly. Can insta-pop pods, aswell as instalock. It pops ceptors (with high transversal) in 2-3 volleys (12.5 seconds with my RoF) Those who say an eagle cant do that, well....If you're the ceotpr pilot that survived, then they had crap skills...and if you're the eagle pilot who couldnt hit em...Dude change ship please.

Moving onto a Beagle as its referred to, they can hit targets at 15km with null easy, and ontop of that, havea supreme tank due to bonuses.

What people fail to realise with the Eagle is that it does infact have split bonuses. One for sniping, one for in the thiick of the combat. Tank, and range. This makes it a jack of all trades, a master of none. Id agree there. With a blaster setup, the eagle would on average lose 60% of the time to a deimos. With rails, it cant take out more than frigs, pods, shuttles, dictor/destroyers, and the rare cruiser.

BUT - Due to its high manuverability, it can warp out if needs be, long before a rokh could. And those who say 'stay aligned' etc - If you already complain about transversal, why are you adding more by aligning out? Rolling Eyes

Now, im coming to the end of my flame and total anger towards some of you folks who feel you understand these ships despite never even flying them, let alone against them with proper skilled pilots.

Eagle - Unique sniper/Most versatile HAC ingame.
Cerberus - unparalelled mission runner/Kickass pvp ship.

But hey what do i know...only flown them for a year and a bit ^^


 

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