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blankseplocked Bring back Capital ships into level 4 missions
 
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Dau Imperius
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.27 05:16:00 - [1]
 

Let the flames begin. (but I hope not)

Simple reasoning really. Here I am, an older character who's got the iskk and wants to field around a Dread or a carrier finally. Thing is I don't want a thing to do with your PvP playing. I'd just like to purchase this ship, and use it to do some missions with friends (using a freighter to ship it).
Unlike most ratters, I could care less about your dps or tanking setups. That's not 'fun' to me. I'd just like to go into a level 4 mission, get my arse smacked around but enjoy it...and I was looking forward to being able to take it with a dreadnaught.

Why, you might ask? Because there's little else a non-pvper can do with these ships. Am I supposed to be regulated to BS and below simply because I choose not to get involved with the other kinds of players? Doesn't make much logical sense. Level 4's with thier BS's by the dozen shouldn't be soloed by a lone BS anyways. Not expecting a dread to own them either, but merely to be able to tackle the hits from these missions and enjoy it normally. Like a human, not a machine based on stats-has-to-be-followed-rules.

Aye, I just want to enjoy the fruits of my labour for saving up that much isk and being able to pilot the ships. Acceleration gates into deadspace are not jumpgates. There's no size or mass in question for those. It gives those of us who don't want to PvP a chance to do something (albiet small) with a big ship they earned. Mkae the level 4's tougher if you want, I don't care. The whole point is to get some usefulness for these cap ships for the PvEr.

Or...perhaps some level 5 missions need to start coming out in force Something only a Dread/Carrier and friends would have a chance of doing.

Some of you may say: Oh he just wants an easy isk maker. No. That whole risk vs reward thing is bunk. I don't care if the isk made in the missions is minimal compared to lower sec space still. It's about PvE vs PvP play. I'd like the option to use all the tools at any players disposel, regardless of where they are at. Simply put: Will CCP decide to let us fully play again in Empire? It's just missions...missions that don't net big rewards like 0.0. It's simply about enjoying something for once, not making it into 'for the win'.

Sandeep
Posted - 2006.12.27 07:26:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Dau Imperius
(using a freighter to ship it)

Carriers/Dreads are 1,000,000.0 m^3 packaged.
Freighter with biggest capacity has 981,250.0 m^3 space.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:34:00 - [3]
 

No. Just NO.

Originally by: Dau Imperius

Why, you might ask? Because there's little else a non-pvper can do with these ships. Am I supposed to be regulated to BS and below simply because I choose not to get involved with the other kinds of players? Doesn't make much logical sense.



Yes, it does make sense.
EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind.
Dreads, carriers, and motherships have been balanced with PvP in mind, and have very specific roles in fleet and POS warfare.
You are not supposed to use them solo, and they are nost supposed to be DED 10 farmmobiles.
If you do not agree with that - tough luck.
Just buy one, put it in your hangar, and look at all its prettiness when you feel like it.

Originally by: Dau Imperius

Aye, I just want to enjoy the fruits of my labour for saving up that much isk and being able to pilot the ships. Acceleration gates into deadspace are not jumpgates. There's no size or mass in question for those. It gives those of us who don't want to PvP a chance to do something (albiet small) with a big ship they earned. Mkae the level 4's tougher if you want, I don't care. The whole point is to get some usefulness for these cap ships for the PvEr.



I like the use of words "labor" and "earned". It is very symptomatic.
That is why you don't like PvP... Because when you play, you choose to grind instead of having fun.
If you lose a ship to a dreaded "PvPer", you probably feel like you have been robbed from your life's
possessions (or something close to it). Oh well.

Originally by: Dau Imperius

Some of you may say: Oh he just wants an easy isk maker. No. That whole risk vs reward thing is bunk. I don't care if the isk made in the missions is minimal compared to lower sec space still. It's about PvE vs PvP play. I'd like the option to use all the tools at any players disposel, regardless of where they are at. Simply put: Will CCP decide to let us fully play again in Empire? It's just missions...missions that don't net big rewards like 0.0. It's simply about enjoying something for once, not making it into 'for the win'.


You personally may not use your Mothership to farm L4 missions.
But there are plenty of people who will do it.
Macro mission runners anyone?
It has been possible to use carriers in deadspace as recently as 3 months ago.
They are not allowed there any more specifically because some unscrupulous people have been
farming the complexes 23/7 with no risk to themselves.

I don't think you will find much support for your idea.
And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing" takes out most of the
fun from the game for you. It won't get you a lot of support on the forums either. Professional mission
runners are universally considered to be entrenched, stiff-neck carebear grinders, and you helpfully
reinforce this stereotype.

Karma Coma
The Rising Stars
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:43:00 - [4]
 

Maybe if level 5 missions get introduced you will have your chanse Wink

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2006.12.27 10:48:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Karma Coma
Maybe if level 5 missions get introduced you will have your chanse Wink


If level 5's are on the difficulty of 10/10's, then he would be as well selling the dread and buying a logistic ship to rep the tank while the tank camps the entire spawn

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:02:00 - [6]
 

Maybe not the level 4 mission, but exploring?

Someone know if the exploration sites are barred from Derad/carriers?

I don't know much on the capability of a carrier, but can't it be used to transport some alternative frigate so that a grup exploring has a reserve miner and hacking/archeology ship even in dep 0.0 whitout gimping the combat set up of others ships?

Lord WarATron
Amarr
Shadow Warri0rs
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:32:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Maybe not the level 4 mission, but exploring?

Someone know if the exploration sites are barred from Derad/carriers?

I don't know much on the capability of a carrier, but can't it be used to transport some alternative frigate so that a grup exploring has a reserve miner and hacking/archeology ship even in dep 0.0 whitout gimping the combat set up of others ships?


Good question. Since all exploration sites are deadspace, I assume capitals cannot enter. With that said, there is nothing in the game that cannot be tanked with a 2 man team of Tank + Logistic ship so it does not matter much.

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2006.12.27 18:36:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Maybe not the level 4 mission, but exploring?

Someone know if the exploration sites are barred from Derad/carriers?

I don't know much on the capability of a carrier, but can't it be used to transport some alternative frigate so that a grup exploring has a reserve miner and hacking/archeology ship even in dep 0.0 whitout gimping the combat set up of others ships?


Good question. Since all exploration sites are deadspace, I assume capitals cannot enter. With that said, there is nothing in the game that cannot be tanked with a 2 man team of Tank + Logistic ship so it does not matter much.


I can confirm that the sites ive visited would not let my chimmy in...


Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.27 20:03:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 27/12/2006 20:09:36
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing"


Sorry but if you're going to attempt to make someone look dumb by being the Barney Fife of the Grammar Police then you run the risk of the Grammar FBI coming down on you. He had the correct usage of ‘your’ and ‘[sic]’ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.

edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.

Arbiter Lilitu
ReignBow Corps
Posted - 2006.12.27 20:55:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Hockston Axe
Edited by: Hockston Axe on 27/12/2006 20:09:36
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing"


Sorry but if you're going to attempt to make someone look dumb by being the Barney Fife of the Grammar Police then you run the risk of the Grammar FBI coming down on you. He had the correct usage of ‘your’ and ‘[sic]’ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.

edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.


Buuuuuuuuuuurn Twisted Evil

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2006.12.27 21:29:00 - [11]
 

I think it should be still possible to do some lvl4s in a capital, those which don't have an accel gate. Blockade comes to mind. Or first pocket of WC...
though it's pointless, more fun to do it in a CS or something.

Big Al
The Aftermath
Posted - 2006.12.27 21:50:00 - [12]
 

2nd mission of rogue slave trader, DREAD MINER GO!

I don't see any issue with capitals being in level 4s, they are just as trivial with a good bs or hac setup. Where the issue arises are plexes where the logistics support then can provide makes an imbalance.

Magnus Card
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.27 22:20:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Dau Imperius
(using a freighter to ship it)

Carriers/Dreads are 1,000,000.0 m^3 packaged.
Freighter with biggest capacity has 981,250.0 m^3 space.



As Maxwel Smart would say, "Missed it by that much" [ ]

Tyler Lowe
DROW Org
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2006.12.28 03:35:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Hockston Axe
He had the correct usage of ‘your’ and ‘[sic]’ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.

edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.


Dammit, beat me to it. Razz

On the subject of freighters, can these be rigged to allow transport of a dread?

Yukiko Kanezaki
Runcible Quench
Posted - 2006.12.28 03:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tyler Lowe
Originally by: Hockston Axe
He had the correct usage of ‘your’ and ‘[sic]’ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.

edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.


Dammit, beat me to it. Razz

On the subject of freighters, can these be rigged to allow transport of a dread?


No, freighters do not have slots. Period. This includes rigs.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.28 10:51:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Quilan Ziller
Macro mission runners anyone?
Though I disagree with your post overall, you were actually doing fine until you trotted out this old piece of rot. It's the biggest myth in EVE that somehow you can setup a macro to run kill missions. You can't. End of story. Kill missions have too many variables for you to be able to do it. Don't take this as being an admission that I've TRIED to do it either...it only takes an ounce of sense to realise that missions are too chaotic to be performed by a simple list of instructions.

Shandling
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2006.12.28 11:17:00 - [17]
 

Better idea...

Add level 5 agents. :)

Make them so tough you need at least a small gang of BS, or a Cap Ship.

Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz' aar K'in
Posted - 2006.12.28 11:36:00 - [18]
 

More second-hand knowledge:

Don't fighters go through acc gates? I mean, all right, so the carrier pilot gets to see a pretty boring traffic controller's point of view of the battle.

But the very prospect of sending a zippy ceptor into a level 4 with a dozen fighters at his command doesn't sound too boring.

It's all low sec of course, so you'll have to PvP a bit even if you're not planning to, but I know an agent that occasionally has a Carrier or two hovering outside his office window.

Xaryx
Posted - 2006.12.28 12:01:00 - [19]
 

Quote:
EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind

Wow it is amazing and pathetic how often this is trotted out as an excuse by people wanting empire of missions nerfed. Lets look at what CCP says and what they do
They say eve is all about player driven battle and economy
They do set up empire space which is quite large with many many agents offering many many missions and they change, add to or redesign these missions on occasion.
So where in deed are they saying PvP rules and that is what the game is all about. Were that the case, empire would be just big enough to run the tutorial and all higher level agents would be in non empire space. So to those who say PvP is what eve is all about, actually look at the game and try and little bit of logic. Oh and get off your high horse.
Quote:
Professional mission
runners are universally considered to be entrenched, stiff-neck carebear grinders, and you helpfully
reinforce this stereotype.

Quite frankly who cares what the considered opinion is. When you start paying my subscription with your money you can have an opinion on what I do in Eve. Until then mate bad luck.
CCP exists to make money by supplying a game, if they are serious they will understand their subscriber base has many different levels of interest and interests. If one area of the player base is interested in having access to certain game mechanics within their style of play who the hell are the others to complain.

Necoria
Posted - 2006.12.28 12:08:00 - [20]
 

1. There are missions without acc gates that allow capitals to enter, they just cant use acc gates (The Blockade, Right hand of zazz)
2. I ran missions in a Moros when it was still possible. Now CCP forced me back into faction fitted Raven or sniper thron/rokh. Guess what... i do missions faster now, but its a bit more work. As Moros was like "aggro all, release drones, go for the gate"
3. Do u really want to do those new missions with 70+ km to next gate in a slowboating CS? raven with AB feels slow, currently thinking about switching to drake for those missions.

4. Macro mission running...
Passive tanked Ferox/drake with FoF missile and painter for lvl3s anyone. Go in paint nearest, let the FoF go, approach next gate... cant be that hard to code. Same could be applied to the Moros i mentioned earlier.

Horus Dark
Posted - 2006.12.28 13:11:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Xaryx
Quote:

Quite frankly who cares what the considered opinion is. When you start paying my subscription with your money you can have an opinion on what I do in Eve. Until then mate bad luck.

CCP exists to make money by supplying a game, if they are serious they will understand their subscriber base has many different levels of interest and interests. If one area of the player base is interested in having access to certain game mechanics within their style of play who the hell are the others to complain.


1 - quite frankly when you open up your mouth here on the forums you give people the right to debate what your saying. if not STFU and play your game how you want.
2 - So everquest should expand their game and alowe you to make swimming dives! it offers the ability to swim so they should broaden it for the swim fanatics in their player game!
wtf dude..read the discription from a game. if its pvp orrientated..and you dont want pvp you might wanna ask yourself if thats indeed the game your looking for.

--->not saying pve should not be expanded...merly want to add that your post is just plain stupid.

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2006.12.28 15:06:00 - [22]
 

Sorry dude, no support here. And I'm a "entrenched, stiff-neck carebear grinder" mission runner myself.

No cap ships in empire, no cap ships in missions. There's tons of other ships and tactics you and your friends can play with. Cap ships are for the 'real men'.

Verus Potestas
Caldari
SP4RTANS
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2006.12.28 15:14:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Magnus Card
Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Dau Imperius
(using a freighter to ship it)

Carriers/Dreads are 1,000,000.0 m^3 packaged.
Freighter with biggest capacity has 981,250.0 m^3 space.



As Maxwel Smart would say, "Missed it by that much" [ ]
It's actually completely deliberate. It used to be possible to fit dreads into them with a Freighter IV, or some of the others at Freighter V, but they reduced the sizes until it just wasn't possible.

CCP don't want capitals in freighters.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.12.29 01:38:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Hockston Axe
Edited by: Hockston Axe on 27/12/2006 20:09:36
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing"


Sorry but if you're going to attempt to make someone look dumb by being the Barney Fife of the Grammar Police then you run the risk of the Grammar FBI coming down on you. He had the correct usage of ‘your’ and ‘[sic]’ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.

edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.


You have missed my point by... 20 jumps.
I have not been picking on the OP's grammar (though I could have done it).
I was picking on his ridiculous partition of the game into "his" good, easy
mission grinding, and "everyone else's" stupid, useless PvP.Laughing
As for bracketed "sic" - I am using my "sic" correctly. Always have, always will.
And I don't need suggestions from you, brother. Indeed, they are unwelcome and
annoying.

Quilan Ziller
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.12.29 01:45:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Xaryx

Quite frankly who cares what the considered opinion is. When you start paying my subscription with your money you can have an opinion on what I do in Eve. Until then mate bad luck.
CCP exists to make money by supplying a game, if they are serious they will understand their subscriber base has many different levels of interest and interests. If one area of the player base is interested in having access to certain game mechanics within their style of play who the hell are the others to complain.


I am so sick and tired of the "money" argument.
1. Why do you even bother to post on this forum if you are not interested in other
people's opinions? Do you just want to see a hundred "/signed" posts?
2. I am also paying for the game. In fact, I have 3 accounts. Thus, I should be
entitled to have a "Pwnzorz Smartbomb II" module, which can be fitted on my shuttle,
works just like a Doomsday Device, but kills and pods only mission runners. And I
will petition CCP endlessly about it and post on the forums daily, because smartbombing
mission runners is my style of play.YARRRR!! And who the hell are you to complain?

Cipher7
Posted - 2006.12.29 14:09:00 - [26]
 


Nah.

I think cap ships should be the reward for being out in 0.0

Otherwise what's the point of being out there if you can use all the cool toys in empire?

You gotta give the hardcore players SOME advantage for being hardcore.

That being said I don't agree with Eve being a strickly pvp game. I think PVP should be the main focus, but PVE is the way in which people make money, so you have to PVE to PVP, so indirectly PVE is the foundation of the entire game.

CCP Zrakor

Posted - 2006.12.29 16:15:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Zrakor on 29/12/2006 16:17:28


They won't be allowed through the acceleration gates in level 4 missions, that was a decision made in game design which I don't think will be reversed. Capital ships can currently be used in a few missions though, i.e. the ones that don't use acceleration gates (just 1 room), such as the Blockade.

Also in Exploration escalations, all of the escalation sites are 1 room and do allow capital ships. Only the first site, a.k.a. the 'hidden dungeon' which leads to the escalations, does not allow those ships. Which will still give a capital ship owner a huge advantage, since some of the escalation sites in 0.0 are very very hard.

So Capital ships are at the end of the day still very useful in PVE, as long as you know where to use them and have a battleship ready when you don't have the luxury of using one.

Sabahl
Minmatar
The Executives
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.12.29 16:22:00 - [28]
 

ArcSal and Hacking sites also allow capital ships in, although these tend to be completable in a HAC anyway.

Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari
Noob Much Inc.
Posted - 2006.12.29 16:40:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 29/12/2006 16:42:14
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind.


Okay. Now advertisements allowed but:

Maybe thats why <insert name of other MMO-style-but-not-quite-MMO-with-no-monthly-fee- online-game> is so successfull.

They are not narrow minded enough to force people to do PvP and to force them to have human interaction whenever one plays, making people wait for enough human players to come online for ops in order to have some fun and success. They make a game that omfgbbq can be enjoyed solo OR with other players, and where people CAN PvP but don't have to, or where people can suck up to a big guild (there, I said it) or can do their own thing. In other words they are FLEXIBLE enough to allow players to have fun with their own style of play and still enjoy the benefits of an online game and the community.

I never understood why CCP can't have the players have some decent fun (and by that I mean ability to make more than small change) who want to play solo at times.

Just a thought.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2006.12.29 17:19:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 29/12/2006 16:42:14
Originally by: Quilan Ziller

EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind.


Okay. Now advertisements allowed but:

Maybe thats why <insert name of other MMO-style-but-not-quite-MMO-with-no-monthly-fee- online-game> is so successfull.

They are not narrow minded enough to force people to do PvP and to force them to have human interaction whenever one plays, making people wait for enough human players to come online for ops in order to have some fun and success. They make a game that omfgbbq can be enjoyed solo OR with other players, and where people CAN PvP but don't have to, or where people can suck up to a big guild (there, I said it) or can do their own thing. In other words they are FLEXIBLE enough to allow players to have fun with their own style of play and still enjoy the benefits of an online game and the community.

I never understood why CCP can't have the players have some decent fun (and by that I mean ability to make more than small change) who want to play solo at times.

Just a thought.


See, this is funny, because I think you actually just described CCP and EVE really well.


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