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Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.23 13:44:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Fedjakeen on 01/01/2007 19:51:57
Edited by: Fedjakeen on 01/01/2007 19:45:01
It's christmas, let's make a gift to the community and be hated by some traders and explain people how trading actually works.

Quote:
You can also see this post my first post which explains how to make money with mineral trading


I probably forgot a few things, i'll add them later if i think about them.
You also must know that i wonít talk much about global trading rules, basically donít undercut too much or you will kill your profit, fight the undercutting price wars until the other guy is bored by your 0.01 isk undercut, and give me money.

Itís also nice to have a ďprice tagĒ when youíre changing many prices, basically make all your prices ending with .55 or .66 to spot them easily in the trade list and see if youíre the cheapest sell order (only item that will sell if someone buy it, even if he puts a higher price)



Tech II trading (50 to 300M profit each day)
It's quite easy, you need a transport ship or even better a freighter alt, and a trading alt (list of the trading alt with starter characters skills are available on my mineral trading post)
First you need to put the transport character in Jita, and the trade alt in any secondary hub you'll find fitting (Rens being the best in my opinion, Oursulaert, Amarr, and Agil are nice too, but you can find your own little trading heaven by yourself, i never went out of Rens the money was good here, around 200M each day)

Then, open the market with both characters (you need two accounts if you don't want to kill yourself for the next step), and search for " II". It will bring up a list of all tech II modules, after that you need to compare the prices of every popular tech II module, to ensure steady income the module you're buying in Jita need to have a volume of trading higher than 3 or 4 each day in the TARGETED REGION, this is not really necessary but it will help avoiding modules that won't sell, the longer it takes to sell, the longer your money is immobilized.

If you ve got enough orders, buy anything which has a 10% margin or 200k margin at least between two regions, this may not sound a lot, but when youíre selling 50 modules selling 20 times a day with 200k margin, you end up with 200M profit at the end of the day.
Be careful with high value modules, try to make at least 3 or 4% profit as the transaction taxe + broker fees will be quite high, this wonít be a 10% margin, but it will probably be 500k rough isk benefit.

Donít use industrial ships to transport your goods from Jita to the trade hub youíre selling in, youíll be eaten alive by evil pirate using suicide ravens. You can use an hardened cruiser or battlecruiser at the beginning if you donít have a transport ship, tech II goods fit well even if you donít have that much cargo.
If youíve got a freighter, you can also trade tech II ships, feel free to explore other kind of items.




Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.23 13:45:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Fedjakeen on 01/01/2007 19:46:48
Mission hubs trading.
I used to do this to begin making money, basically find any mission hub by checking which agents are in fighting divisions with level 4 quality 10+ , and check the map to see if there are more than 50 or 100 people here.
You can make a lot of money by selling ammos, by buying mineral to sell it in Jita (you need a freighter for this if you start buying trit/pyerite/mexa, you can handle it without it if youíre only buying rare minerals)
Use these systems to sell a few tech II modules too, armor and shield hardeners, tech II drones.
A nice gold mine is the Kernite, people need it for a level 4 storyline which give a +4 implant and will buy the 8000 units needed as long as they can make a decent profit on the implant without having to mine or haul anything.


0.0 Mission Hub trading (OLOL Easy money !)
The Kernite trick works in some of the 0.0 missions hubs pretty well, but youíll need a carrier with a fully expanded impel + fully expanded prorator (or any other industrial ship you can fit) to transport the kernite, and youíll need several carrier jumps.
Is it worth it ? I guess it speaks for itself. You can even buy the Kernite in the low sec system youíll be using to jump, put a buy order for 600 ISK or something like that and it will fill within two or three days, and youíll still make an insane profit of it. As long as the 8 000 Kernite needed for the +4 implant storyline is cheaper than the price of this implant, people will buy it because they need the faction standing boost to get their uber Rattlesnake BPC.
Also works with drugs, but not that much.

You can also trade a lot of other things in 0.0 hubs, use only mission running 0.0 hubs because you donít need standings to dock here, and everybody can access them, same as empire hubs try to aim for the most populated one, use an alt to scout the region and whatís the most popular station if you donít have a clue, but itís not always the best place to sell.

- Ammunitions, people usually forget to bring their BPOs, bring antimatter L/M BPOs, Cruise Missiles BPOs, Torpedoes BPOs (or BPCs, theyíre not used that much), and try to product and sell them in the station where all the mission carebears hide, it should sell for a decent profit and you wonít have too much competition to watch for, itís basically 30 minutes of work at the beginning for 1 month afk profit. Tech I drones are nice too.
- Anything you can fit on a Raven running missions (be careful with Cruise Missile Launcher II tho, itís quite a huge investment and youíre not sure they will sell fast), tech II drones, power diagnostic systems, ballistic control systems, etc ...
- Anything else people in 0.0 running missions may need, just figure it out yourself i canít think of everything for you :(


Stupid things you can do with skills
Buy low cost and high demand skills, and haul them in 0.0, pick 20 or 25 skills ďpopularĒ skills, buy them in empire, haul them in 0.0 with a shuttle, sell them here. Youíll be able to fill orders of two regions on a trade alt (53 orders available most of the time), and it will be a nice afk profit too as long as youíre not selling at a too high prices, but donít sell too low.
Works quite nice atm with all the new rigs and salvage skills, but also works with some secondary gunnery/missile/navigation/engineering/electronics skills too, just make a choice.


That's all folks.

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.23 13:46:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Fedjakeen on 01/01/2007 19:47:14
Mineral compression
If you're planning to build things in 0.0, you'll need to compress your minerals to something easily movable.
- Passive targets are 5m3 and reprocess for 125m3 of tritanium (1/25 ratio)
- Small Tractor Beams are 10m3 and reprocess for 100k Tritanium, 25k Pyerite, 9k Mexallon, 2,5k isogen, 350 Nocxium, 20 Zydrine, 40 Megacyte (1/136 ratio)
- Jump Portal Generators are 1 000m3 and reprocess for 31,937M Tritanium, 7,500M Pyerite, 2,924M Mexallon, 459,84k Isogen, 144,5k Nocxium, 23k Zydrine, 10,26k Megacyte (1/429 ratio)

A single Jump Portal Generator is enough to build 4 Megathron once reprocessed if you add a few zydrine, but you'll need a high ME BPO.

Stupid things you can do with rigs
Buy the bpos, and make them by buying the components on the market, sometimes you'll be able to make 10M profit just to run the production of a rig even if you bought all the components in Jita.
There's also an obvious market of buy orders for rigs components you could set up in mission hubs.

Stupid things you can do with new probes
Probes reprocess for strontium, see if you can buy cheap probes, reprocess them, and sell the components for an higher price



Translations
Traduction franÁaise : http://forums.mondespersistants.com/showthread.php?p=1592911

Casper Blake
Caldari
Tolius Enterprise
Posted - 2006.12.23 14:20:00 - [4]
 

Nice post. Encourages me to try trading :)

Intigo
Amarr
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.12.23 15:13:00 - [5]
 

You are so French.

PS: Lend me 100m ISK! <3

kublai
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.12.23 15:14:00 - [6]
 

I just popped in to confirm that Fedjakeen is the god of ISK.

His word, is bling, may we all bathe in the light that is his wallet YARRRR!! \o/ YARRRR!!

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.23 15:18:00 - [7]
 

Flooding my post will make me sad :(

Cherybol
Caldari
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2006.12.23 21:52:00 - [8]
 

I trade billions of isk in t2.

This better not be the downfall of me :D

Good post non the less.

Stop by our trading forums open to the public.

www.traderslounge.novitraq.com

Erfnam
Offworld Miners and Fabricators Guild
Rising Orbit Free Trade League
Posted - 2006.12.23 22:28:00 - [9]
 

http://traderslounge.novitraq.com

Fixed the link for you.

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.24 10:52:00 - [10]
 

Updated this night with mineral compressions information ^^

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.26 03:34:00 - [11]
 

Heh. Let me speculate a bit.

If I was a T2 producer and my sales were becoming a bit sluggish I would be looking for a way to increase sales. So I would try to reduce my price... but that hurts my bottom line. So what could I do? Personally fly to every region and put up sell orders? Takes a lot of time... more than I have available. So I get others to do all that work for me and buy up all my T2 goods.

As a side effect of everyone going to Jita and buying T2 items to resell elsewhere the prices in Jita start to raise. At the same time, because lots of people are moving all these T2 items to other regions the prices start to drop in those regions. This means the T2 items I produce are being sold for more without any work... and the T2 items others sell in other regions are worth less. Eventually people will realize they are losing millions of ISK because the price has changed so much so quickly.

Now, lets assume an entire corp or alliance would like to sell tons of different T2 goods at higher prices and higher quantities for a quick cash infusion. We could personally ship them around and hope they sell... or we could hire someone to stir up the demand in a single system. We could give them a percentage of the profits, it would make them hundreds of millions or even billions and us far far far more.


Those are all hypotheticals of course. I'm sure someone who is making billions of ISK, as they claim, would likely tell everyone else how to do it out of the kindness of their heart. Right?


I personally do a variation of this already and I can tell you that it is VERY easy to lose hundreds of millions if you don't know what you're doing. I have billions I can risk on it made from missions. I generally do well, but I've also lost over a billion ISK in one day due to price shifts. And I can tell you that after a post like this a lot of people very new to the market are going to try this exact thing, expecting it to be a massive cash cow. Anyone doing this better be willing to lose 10-20% of their investment if they hope to possibly make 10-20%.

If you do plan on doing this I highly suggest you only buy/sell items with a much higher markup than listed above. Never do anything for less than 20% markup. The price can change by up to 10% in a day very easily due to fluctuations.


Oh, one final thought. A whole lot of new T2 BPO's are being seeded onto the market. The major component of T2 prices is scarcity. As soon as more BPO's hit the market the prices will plummet by a good bit. For every BPO you'll see a several % drop in price as soon as their production starts.

So, enjoy making these T2 people a lot of money Smile

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.26 15:03:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Fedjakeen on 26/12/2006 15:03:32
Someone is being annoyed by new people on his market ? ^^

I wrote this guide because i like to find ways to make money but i'm too lazy to use them because i don't need money, ask anyone who knows me, i don't loose money because i absolutely never PvP ^^

But your conspiracy theory is fun tho.

Quote:
Never do anything for less than 20% markup. The price can change by up to 10% in a day very easily due to fluctuations.


That's why you sell 50 items, not just one
And most of the time, the guy doing it will sell his stock and stop doing it, just wait.

kublai
Guillotine Therapy
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.12.26 16:06:00 - [13]
 

I talk to fedjakeen every single day on the irc chan on quakenet, he doesnt trade anymore at all, and it's been a long time since he quit, he doesnt own nor intend to aquire any T2 bpo's, he has more than enough isk to waste (yes, multiple billions) and he can earn several billion more, not having to trade or produce tech II toys.

Tbh, I think he made this thread more to **** off the people who grind the above tactic, than to help people, he IS french after all YARRRR!!

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.26 23:25:00 - [14]
 

I actually hope a ton of people do this, it will end up making me a good bit of money in the long run if people do this. The problem is that it could devastate those who try it as the T2 market is on the verge of crashing. Lots of new BPO's are started to get seeded and I've already noticed a few items drop over 20% in cost.

You can assume I am out for my own good if you wish, all that I ask is that people be very cautious when following the OP's advice. It is not nearly as easy as he makes it sound and he completely ignores the extreme risk involved due to the increased number of BPO's.

I've pulled most of my money out of the T2 market and I have billions to risk... it's not worth it to me right now due to the variability. I'm going to wait out the storm coming... anyone who buys a massive load of T2 items right now tho is going to possibly lose hundreds of millions... or they could make hundreds of millions if they are lucky and their particular T2 item's bpo isn't seeded as quickly.

Jon Asus
Posted - 2006.12.26 23:28:00 - [15]
 

Reprocessing stuff can make a fair amount of money... I've updated the orginal excell sheet with some formulas and it's been really helpful.

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.27 01:09:00 - [16]
 

Shadarle, i spent some time running tech II trades, and tbh i can't see how you could loose money by doing it, i never had more than one or two modules being obviously undercut, and it's only 10% of the time below jita price, and i never stocked modules for more than 2 or 3 days.

Tech II Market will takes age to stabilize with the new BPOs values, and it won't go down easily, people who got the new BPOs want their part of the high profit sales too until they can do it, and when they won't be able to sell at such high prices, they'll lower it slowly, don't think T2 producers are stupid enough to crash all their prices by 30% from one day to another.

Actually, even if they did, i don't think the change would impact Rens before 2 or 3 days ^^

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.27 01:46:00 - [17]
 

It's obvious you don't see how people could lose the money... since you never posted a thing about it. The only question I had was whether that was intentional or simply because you've been lucky enough to never experience it.

In the last few weeks some T2 items have fluctuated heavily. Harpy's in particular have dropped in price by 25% in the last few weeks now. Several other T2 mods have seen similar drops while a few have risen by that much.

I'm not saying it isn't possible to make a lot of money doing it. I made quite a bit a while back. But it can be very risky, especially to do it at the exact time that new BPO's are hitting the market.

Another note... I'd not jump on new T2 BPO's so quickly that people are selling on the Contract system. People are trying to sell them asap because they realize the price will drop substantially after all the BPO's are seeded. So don't expect your BPO to maintain its value for long if you're an industrialist.

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2006.12.27 03:37:00 - [18]
 

The whole point of my topic is to invest in a lot of modules to not experience price dropping ... when i traded ship i never bought more than 5 at a time, even T2 frigs, let's say harpy drop by 25% , you lose what ? 25M at most ? that's nothing compared to what you win in a day.

The only way to lose money is by overstocking items or ships, if you do this, you forgot to read my guide, basically if you can't sell it under 2 days, don't buy it

As for T2 BPO dropping price, i don't think so, prices are kinda low now because everybody is trying to sell his BPO for easy and fast money, with the inflation going in EVE the value will probably go up over time, and will give you a steady income, but most of the people can't buy them that's all ^^

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.27 03:46:00 - [19]
 

"with the inflation going in EVE the value will probably go up over time"

Devs have continually posted that there is not inflation in EVE. Certain mods go up, others go down... it's pretty well balanced across the game.

But as to the only buying about 5 of any item... you know full well that it will work if its only you doing that but when you post this thread and lots of people do that it causes price drops. Obviously if you're the only one doing it then it works well... if lots do it then the market dies. So sure you may only lose 25 mil on the harpy, but if even two people do this in each region it will cause both to start a price war... possibly causing a loss on each item they compete on. Now, imagine 3-4 people do it... they all end up trying to out-bid each other to avoid losing too much, causing all 4 of them to lose out.

This would have been very helpful to a couple of people if you told them individually. But posting it here is a prime way to cause a lot of people to lose tons of money if they take your advice. If only a few people take the advice then they will do great.

I've only been playing EVE for 9 months now, been trading for 6 months. I make plenty to pay for 3 accounts with time card purchases without even denting my bottom line. I've seen a post like this before and it caused the related market to absolutely die. It didn't bother me, I had the capital to outlast it and did very well because I could buy up the items when they were cheap and resell for a lot more. But the average person without billions to spend lost their entire savings to it.

Alex Kilgour
Posted - 2006.12.27 08:11:00 - [20]
 

T2 trading can be quite lucrative but it is also quite time consuming as it is highly competative. It's not something I'd reccommend for beginning players as it takes Billions of isk to really make sustained profits. Because of the reseeding and being gone for the holidays I pretty much liquidated my entire trading empire before I went on break.

At my peak I'd say I had close to 200 buy/sell orders across 6 regions worth between 30-35 Billion. That's not even including private deals I had with diffrent T2 manufacterers.

I would reccomend sticking with T2 mods as opposed to ships due to sales volumes. Be prepared for fierce price wars. I myself have instituted crippling price wars and have driven profits close to break even at times just to drive people out of certain areas.

The real profits come when you have enough isk to manipulate a certain market or are lucky enough to hold significant inventory of an item where it's been manipulated by someonelse and can just ride the wave til it bursts.

This is definately not something for the faint of heart. At times trading can be more vicious than actual PvP. But if you have the time and a big enough wallet it can be very worthwhile.

Gaius Sejanus
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:04:00 - [21]
 

Quote:
At times trading can be more vicious than actual PvP


Trade PvP (you imply that Trade is not Pvp, this is incorrect) is far more vicious than gomers trading shots with each other, because there's a hell of a lot more at stake.


Black Torment
Caldari
Black Omega Security
Posted - 2006.12.27 12:36:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Gaius Sejanus
Quote:
At times trading can be more vicious than actual PvP


Trade PvP (you imply that Trade is not Pvp, this is incorrect) is far more vicious than gomers trading shots with each other, because there's a hell of a lot more at stake.




"Not all treasure is gold and jewels"

Value means a lot more than isk :P The amount at stake is subject to opinion. For some people its a place to live. For others it may be reputation or pride or something along those lines.

Nice guide anyway, OP.

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2007.01.07 08:56:00 - [23]
 

Updated the reprocess spreadsheet, it lacked formulas :/

Working on a website to have something easier to read

TrinaTrader
Posted - 2007.01.09 22:18:00 - [24]
 

i just made my first bil doing reg trading. T2 stuff is sounding like itw worth a try. but what i really want to know is when u "Download to file" from the market screen and i open it in excel, the station names are numbers. where can i get the translation for numbers to names?

Quutar
Ars ex Discordia
Posted - 2007.01.09 23:21:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Fedjakeen
Edited by: Fedjakeen on 01/01/2007 19:47:14
Mineral compression
If you're planning to build things in 0.0, you'll need to compress your minerals to something easily movable.
- Passive targets are 5m3 and reprocess for 125m3 of tritanium (1/25 ratio)
- Small Tractor Beams are 10m3 and reprocess for 100k Tritanium, 25k Pyerite, 9k Mexallon, 2,5k isogen, 350 Nocxium, 20 Zydrine, 40 Megacyte (1/136 ratio)
- Jump Portal Generators are 1 000m3 and reprocess for 31,937M Tritanium, 7,500M Pyerite, 2,924M Mexallon, 459,84k Isogen, 144,5k Nocxium, 23k Zydrine, 10,26k Megacyte (1/429 ratio)

A single Jump Portal Generator is enough to build 4 Megathron once reprocessed if you add a few zydrine, but you'll need a high ME BPO.



take a look at the Gjallarhorn for massive compression....

it looks to have a higher compression than the jump portal generator
Cynosural Field Generator I is another good one along with, as you say, the small tractor beam.

then there is the "classic" of the 100NM microwarp drive for mineral compression

Zamzoph
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.01.11 01:28:00 - [26]
 

Of course, you need money in order to make money, so I was wondering... How much ISK do you need initially to make the kind of profits you're talking about?

Right now, I have about 60mil and a tanked out BC for safe transporting. I can get ~120mil as well if I decide to sell the 10 harvester drones I have (which I probably will since I now despise mine grinding).

Fedjakeen
Stupid Incompetent and Disappointing Minions
Posted - 2007.01.11 04:59:00 - [27]
 

Well on tech II trading, you can start with a kinda low amount of money, you can try to buy a few big modules to resell them fast, or make money on low cost tech II module (small guns, energized membranes, rcu II, co-proc II, etc)

If you trade big modules, you'll make profits very fast, but if the price on this particular module goes down = bye bye moneh.

Obviously can't happen with 10 small modules

Servius Caecilius
Posted - 2007.01.14 02:17:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Fedjakeen
Well on tech II trading, you can start with a kinda low amount of money, you can try to buy a few big modules to resell them fast, or make money on low cost tech II module (small guns, energized membranes, rcu II, co-proc II, etc)

If you trade big modules, you'll make profits very fast, but if the price on this particular module goes down = bye bye moneh.

Obviously can't happen with 10 small modules


From my experience, most people who trade small, low profit items sell high quantity. In the end, your money still dies if the price goes down and all you can do is try to salvage some of it.

Major Stuart
The Green Cross
Sev3rance
Posted - 2007.02.13 20:58:00 - [29]
 

Nice guide, i was wondering is it possible to sell kernite 3k ea now? Or have prices dramatically changed?

Empress Aphrodite
The Templars Knights
Edge Of Sanity
Posted - 2007.02.15 23:59:00 - [30]
 

Nice guide, Fedjakeen.


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