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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:00:00 - [1]
 

Glue removed, please see new sticky! - Deckard

This guide assumes you've read, digested and understood Hoshi's guide here.

I've moved this guide to its own thread to try and separate discussion of exploration from discussion of probing. Also please note that this guide is still INCOMPLETE and will be revised as more data comes in

Exploration and probing

Kali also introduces proper exploration, in the form of various hidden encounters. These can be any number of things - there are over 250 being introduced in Kali 1, which get more interesting and much harder as you move from Empire to Lowsec to 0.0. I've been playing around in a COSMOS constellation in 0.0 and I've found gas clouds (for booster manufacturing), straight-up complexes, archaeological sites full of rig parts and T2 rig BPCs, hidden databanks loaded with invention material, rogue drone outposts, hidden roid fields full of ark and bistot... There's plenty of riches to be found, but you need to use scan probes to do it

Basic mechanics

Exploration probes use exactly the same mechanics as ship scanning probes - same skills, same equations etc. You need to use a Scan Probe Launcher rather than a Recon Probe Launcher, simply because (as Hoshi says) you can't fit an exploration probe in a Recon Launcher because the probes are too big. Other than that, the basics all work the same way.

Exploration sites themselves seem to spawn within 1 and 4 AU of planets in system. There may be multiple sites in one system, or there may be none at all.

Finding an exploration site

Tools

Exploration sites cannot be found using the system scanner - you have to probe them down using the exploration probes. These come in four flavours and four ranges:

[Type] Quest Probe - 4 au range, 250 points primary sensor strength, 50 points other sensor strength, 2.088 au max scan deviation, 4000 sec flight time.
[Type] Pursuit Probe - 2 au range, 500 points primary sensor strength, 100 points other sensor strength, 6,250,000 km max scan deviation, 2000 sec flight time.
[Type] Comb Probe - 1 au range, 1000 points primary sensor strength, 200 points other sensor strength, 125,000 km max scan deviation, 1000 sec flight time.
[Type] Sift Probe - 0.5au range, 2000 points primary sensor strength, 400 points other sensor strength, 2,500km max scan deviation, 500 sec flight time.

The four types available are Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR. A Gravimetric Quest Probe will have 250 points of gravimetric sensor strength and 50 points each of Magnetometric, RADAR and LADAR.

There is also one final, very important probe:

Multispectral Frequency Probe - 999 au range, 1,000,000 points sensor strength (all types), 600 sec flight time

This probe has no deviation, as it doesn't return location-based results. Instead, it will simply tell you if there are any cosmic signatures within its range, and if so what sensor type they are.

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:01:00 - [2]
 

Technique

Firstly, you need to confirm there's anything worth looking for. Drop a Multispec probe anywhere in the system and do a scan. If it returns no results, the system's empty, so move on. If it returns one or more results, decide which sensor type you're going to look for, destroy the Multispec probe (right-click in the scanner interface and "destroy", otherwise you can't deploy more probes) and start probing. "Unknown" results work equally well with all probe types.

It is believed that the different sensor types correspond to different types of site, but there isn't enough data to confirm which are which yet.

In order to run down the site, you need to get it in range of a probe. The easiest way to do this is to drop Quest probes of the correct sensor type so they cover every planet in the system. This is easy with outer planets, but with the inner ones you need to think about exactly where you're going to drop for maximum coverage. This may require some bookmarks, and sometimes you just have to compromise and hope you don't get unlucky and have the site in a blindspot. The system map is highly recommended at this stage.

Once your probes are down, select them all (ctrl-click) and start analyzing. Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to an interceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. With quests you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to get a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around and keep trying until you get something.

Once you get your initial contact life gets a lot easier. It'll show up on the system map, so figure out where it is and try to see how close you can get. The rest is fairly obvious - drop the shortest-range probe you can that'll still scan it, and keep analysing until you get a good result, warp to that, analyse again if necessary... you get the picture. You'll often be able to go from a Quest straight to a Sift, and when you can't a comb will usually work - pursuit probes are generally not that useful.

You really need a result with under 100km or so deviation before you can be confident you've found anything. Many sites won't spawn unless you warp into the grid they're in, and as you can't use the directional scanner to find them, if you land in a different grid 400km away you need to reprobe.

Once you have your 0m result, be very careful with it. Some sites drop you at an empty deadspace gate, some drop you at a gate with passive hostiles near it, and some drop you straight into the line of fire. If you go in with a covops, go cloaked, bookmark quickly and run away again - I've lost I think two covops on SiSi to enemy fire in this way. Also, if you do decide to park your ship and go in with a pod, make sure not to leave your ship too close - once the deadspace pocket spawns, the usual deadspace rules apply and if your ship is too close you won't be able to warp to it until the site expires

Once you've got the bookmark you're basically done with the exploration aspect. Gas clouds aside, the stuff I've found in 0.0 is not suitable for covops ships. Some of the plexes are supposed to be 10/10 equivalent difficulty.

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:02:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 17/12/2006 19:41:06
Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 17/12/2006 11:07:12
FAQ

Can you analyze when cloaked?
You can't start the analysis cloaked, but you can uncloak, click "analyze" and then recloak without any problems

Can you analyze while warping?
No, and if you warp while analyzing it will finish prematurely with no results

What does this "module is in use?" thing mean? Why can't I analyze?
The probe launcher must finish its launch cycle before you start analyzing. Wait for it to stop flashing green and try again

Can I analyze with multiple probes at once?
Yes, just control-click them all. Doing this in system map will also show you what your coverage is like.

Couldn't you probespam with snoops instead?
Hoshi has done the numbers and says it's no longer worth the effort. So, yes in theory, but not recommended at all.

You need a lot of probes for exploration and they're really expensive!
Well... yes, I guess. The cheapest solution is to buy the BPOs and mine your own stront, at which point they become pretty cheap. But... then you have to go ice mining. Your decision.

Can I convo/message you ingame?
You're going to anyway I think, but yes, ok. I may however be busy, and I don't have all the answers

I know where you can find Gas Cloud Harvester Is but I'm not telling you where
I hate you.

Oh my god exploration is too boring/hard/time-consuming/unrewarding!
News to me. What do you want, a cookie?

I quit!
Can I have your stuff?

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:02:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 15/01/2007 14:03:07
The Booster Guide v0.5, while there's space here

This is going into the next version of the exploration guide, but here's the deal as I understand it. Disclaimer: this is going on what I know, I don't have booster production running yet, but the people who do aren't talking. Some of it is guesswork/reasoning, some is known info. It should be clear which is which

The process:

- Find gas cloud. Best info is that these are LADAR sites and spawn certainly in 0.0 COSMOS constellations and apparently in non-COSMOS areas in the same region

- Harvest the gas cloud. This requires a Gas Harvester module and the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill. This gives you with a Cytoserin compound

-- The base module is known to be offered as a reward from some 0.0 COSMOS missions at least some of the time.

-- The meta versions are bugged - their skill requirement is set to "Gas Harvesting", which doesn't exist.

-- The skill is known to be offered as a reward from some 0.0 COSMOS missions at least some of the time

- React the compound. This requires a Medium Biochemical Reactor Array (POS array). These are empire-seeded. It also requires the requisite reaction. This gives you a pure booster

-- Reactions can be found in certain 0.0 exploration sites which are believed to be COSMOS constellation-only

- Manufacture the booster. This requires the right blueprint and pure booster compound, as well as usually some additional commodity. It presumably requires the Drug Manufacturing skill. Presumably it can be done in the seeded Drug Lab POS module; it's also been suggested that it can be done in player outposts.

-- Blueprint copies can be found in certain 0.0 exploration sites which are believed to be COSMOS constellation-only

There are two further classes of booster. The Improved versions require an Improved reaction and both the pure standard booster in question and a pure booster compound which is believed to be from an adjacent COSMOS constellation, plus a commodity. The Strong versions require a Strong reaction, the pure improved booster in question and a pure standard compound which is believed to be from the COSMOS constellation opposite it on the map, plus a commodity. It is assumed that both reactions require a Biochemical Reactor. Both obviously also require the relevant BPC.


In summary, to make a standard booster, you need:
-Gas cloud
-Harvester module
-Harvester skill
-Medium Biochem reactor
-Standard booster reaction
-Drug Manufacturing skill
-Booster blueprint


Again, this is not guaranteed to be accurate. Feel free to correct any errors, or alternatively act like a [expletive] and flout your "superior knowledge" without actually telling anybody anything, even though you very probably relied on other people being open and honest with their info to get as far as you have.

Roxy Kell
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:03:00 - [5]
 

Coolcool

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:15:00 - [6]
 

The use of snoop where an interesting idea for a while but with the release of the multispectral probe it has become mostly redundant.

It relied on the fact that you didn't know that what sensor type the object had and because of that couldn't use the correct probe type. With the ability to choose the correct probe type from the get go the speed gain from snoops is all but gone, and all that is left is the increased cost and workload.

DNightmare
Stripper Mine Co.
Posted - 2006.12.17 13:19:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: DNightmare on 11/01/2007 00:03:50
€dit: Just to make a little "Index" of this Thread and additional Resources:


*1 - So far the Homepage contains:
- All Info from this Post, but viable via Ingame Browser while exploring
- The Skill Info from Hoshi's Post
- An Ingame Deadspace Database (new one on, so has to be filled first, to yield better statistics)
- A Picture Tutorial on Coverage (Bookmarks coming soon)
- A Media Section where i Post my Videotutorials (5-Part series on its way, so far only a badly edited one online)

Originally by: Joerd Toastius
You're going to anyway I think, but yes, ok. I may however be busy, and I don't have all the answers


Well, nobody can have all answers, but everyone reading this is invited to join the ingame Channel "Exploration" we are around 40 ppl at peak atm who all love Exploration and share every little bit of intel we find. /me hopes to see you around there to, Joerd :)

Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Technique
It is believed that the different sensor types correspond to different types of site, but there isn't enough data to confirm which are which yet.



As far as our little Team of Explorers has analyzed this aspect, we have come to the same conclusion. We've set-up a Live Database now, everyone reading this is welcome to add their findings via DNightmare's Ingame Site (see List above):

Gravimetric -> Hidden Asteroid Belts
Info: There may even be a chance that Faction NPCs show up and drop Faction Items/Implants

Magnetrometric -> Profession Site, mostly ArcSal (Archaology & Salvaging)
Loot: T2 Rig BPCs, Datacores, common & rare Salvaged Materials

LADAR -> Complexes & Gas Clouds (There are also reports about RADAR Gas Clouds, so they don't seem to have a fixed sig. type)
Complexes most of the time escalate when you shoot the Structures in the second Stage

RADAR -> Profession Site, mostly Hacking
Loot: Enc. Skillbooks, Decryptors, Interface BPCs & Components

Unknown: So far, they seem to be Fighting Complexes (Most of the time Drone ones, but not always)


Another interesting thing is, that the Multi-Speccs don't report how MANY sigs of each types are found in the active System.
For example, my Multi-Specc reported Magnetrometric this morning, but after getting no results for around 40minutes with the quests, suddenly there where TWO positive ones, around 9AU apart from eachother, checked again with Multi-Specc -> only 1 entry Magnetrometric!
Both where ArcSalv (those type seems quite common in 0.1->0.4)


Some more things we get asked quite often in our Channel:

How do I find out what the name of this XXX is, I just succesfully pinpointed?

When you finally warp to it at 0km, you can open your systemmap and will find a little indicator that tells you the name


Ok, but what does "Profession - ArcSal - Base 2 - Lo Sec - Guristas" stand for?

Profession -> You found a Profession Site, not a complex or some hidden Belt (kinda hard to guess :P)

ArcSal -> This indicates WHAT profession Site you just found, it is either Salvaging/Hacking/Archeology or a mix of two of them Like ArcSal is Archeology & Salvaging

Base 2 -> We had a theory, got screwed the last days. so atm: NO CLUE

Lo Sec -> Just look at the Security Rating of the System you just found it ;)

Guristas -> The NPC Faction this Site belongs to

-See next Post-

DNightmare
Stripper Mine Co.
Posted - 2006.12.17 13:28:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: DNightmare on 11/01/2007 00:09:46
WTF? I'm analyzing this system now for over one hour, because the Multispec reporterted there is XXX in here, but I get nothing, nada, zero Results with my Quests

Not every Signal strenght is so great that your kinda weak Quests Probes will find them on the first try (And it is also chance based, so luck is another factor), but you WILL get an result, maybe just after 1 Hour and 10 Minutes, or after 4 Hours...
Also, tha harder itz is to pinpoint it down, most likely the better the reward seems (2 Million Battleships + 16x Datacore - Starship Engineering in 0.5 anyone?)
AND hidden belts seem to be the hardest one to pinpoint down so far.
Another common mistake is, what Joerd already mentioned, that you didn't Cover the planets right, so if you have a bulk of let's say 5 of them in the middle of the System don't just drop one quest in the middle, instead use BMs to drop the Probes in some Ring AROUND those center planets.

Some Screen to give you a picture of what I mean

Just some more stuff about the correct placing of Probes & Bookmarks:

A Screenie

So, if we take that picture, normally you will just drop:

Probe A (Green Circle) at Planet 1
Probe B (Blue Circle) at Planet 2

And all Planets from 1 to 4 will be covered, BUT what if the complex you are looking for is located just in that deep red piece of space in the middle? you won't find anything.. so you make a mid-save Bookmark when warping from Probe A to Probe B and drop Another one there.
Now you cover every little piece of Space around the planets AND where the Probes overlap, you have a better chance to find the Target faster.

You could also drop Probe A at planet 3/4 instead of Planet 1 and then would cover more space around these, but you will loose some coverage "behind" Planet 1 and if there is no object further out, you can't make a BM behind Planet 1 and so, can't drop a probe there to cover the stuff that is missing.
Hope that's clear now.
(Found another good example, again, red are the probes that cover spots you could not without proper Bookmarks)


Ok, I just found this nice Hacking Site, killed all NPCs guarding the containers and hacked them, but ALL were emtpy. Bug?

AFAIK, there are two things that decide what you get:
1st: pure luck ;)
2nd: the relevant Skilllevels you have. (I didn't have a single totally empty Hacking/Archeology Site so far with both skills at V, but I got an empty Salvaging one, cause I only have that one at IV)

Another thing that is kinda interesting is, that:
If you equip a Cargo Scanner and scan a container, you'll see a whole list of items, but you only get 1-x Items from the top down to the bottom of the list (sometimes all sometimes none) in the exact order the Cargo Scanner showed them.


Why do I need to use a Covert-Ops instead of for example the "Probe" Minmatar Frigate, which is cheaper and also gets a Bonus To Astrometric Stuff?

For some of us, that seems quite obvious, but just to write it down and link to it later:
A Covert has some major advantages you can't find in ANY other ship:

1st: you can fit Covert-Ops Cloaking devices, which let you warp cloaked & have no speed penalty while cloaked.

2nd: you get the best bonus for Astrometric Stuff so you will have the fastest ship to do Analyzing (With Covert V, Signal Acq. V & 2 Gravimetric Rigs, you have a scan time of 120 seconds instead of 600 seconds when using a Cruiser with no skills for example, thats 5x faster so you can analyze more often before your Probes expire)

3rd: They have a Warp-Speed of 13.5 AU/Second, that is kinda anoying when making close Bookmarks BUT quite handy if you have to run away from someone chasing you in low-sec/0.0 (as long as it isn't some Interceptor)

o/ DNightmare

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.12.17 14:51:00 - [9]
 


Good work Joerd! Added the thread to my collection here. Im sure your thread will only become better and better. :)

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.17 19:38:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Joerd Toastius on 17/12/2006 19:40:21
@Hoshi fixed

@Everyone listen to DNightmare, he knows his stuff

@Jim suckup :P


{edit} Removed pending further info

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.12.17 19:47:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Joerd Toastius

@Jim suckup :P



Bite me. Laughing

Andy Roo
Caldari
Righteous Chaps
Posted - 2006.12.18 00:46:00 - [12]
 

Thanks for the guide, most useful, finally found a "Radar" after going through 6 systems. Spent ages tracking down an "unknown" but just couldnt find it.

Rather annoying, but I will find at least a something. Now to go to Lagcatraz (Jita) to buy me some Radar probes.

Gentzen
Matroos Cantina
Izanagi Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.18 02:17:00 - [13]
 

thx for nice update.

additional tips.

Once you get a initial contact, you can estimate target's signal size and how many scan do I need with next probe. this calculation is important for mental health.

probe graph

if distance > 0.858*maxrange, longer range probe is stronger. however using possible strongest probe is usually good idea because you can not know real distance in advance.

if signal size is very small and a number of estimated scan times is large and you dont have inifinite money, using longer probe is also good idea because longer range probe has better flight time.
# with covops IV and Sig Acq III, I can only one scan with sift probe.

Daron
Posted - 2006.12.18 06:03:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Daron on 18/12/2006 06:27:23
Actually, from just the Signal Strength, you can calculate the distance from your probe to the actual site (the real site, not the ghost signature) down to just a couple of meters.

We know how Signal Strength is calculated, and the only variables unknown once our results come back are distance to the deadspace and it's visibility (I've forgotten what Hoshi called it, but it's the equivalent of a ship's Radius/Sensor Strength). Anyway, since almost all the locations I've found have either a visibility of 0.1 (combat, profession) or 0.05 (mining), I use these to calculate a distance from probe to site, and it is accurate to within 50 meters or so. It's not especially useful, but it passes the time while waiting for the next 4.9 minutes to tick down.

--edit--

To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence.

Also, the distance in AU is an AU = 149,597,870.691 km (not the rounded 150 that some of EVE's other systems use).

Sae Marr
Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
Posted - 2006.12.18 07:50:00 - [15]
 

Thank you for this - informative.

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.12.18 11:49:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Hoshi on 18/12/2006 12:15:01
Originally by: Daron

To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence.


NICE! fits down to the 5th decimal on my sample values. I did know my formula was slightly off and I did test some e^ stuff but I never got it to fit well enough.

Edit: Want to take a shot at the accuracy formula while you are at it? :-) The current one I use is a bit too complicated to be likely to be correct.

I don't have as many samples here and I can't say they are 100% accurate, this is because the random number involved which means you need to run A LOT of tests to get something close to the correct number.

The best fit I currently have is: (0.6 * (Signal Strength ^ 2)) (1.6 * Signal Strength) + 1)

These samples where produced by running 100 scans at each sensor strength and choosing the largest one. If you need an extra sample value close to some specific signal strength just let me know and I'll see what I can do.

Signal Strength Max Deviation Multiplier
0.287 0.59165
0.5107 0.338
0.716 0.1514
0.931 0.0178

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.12.18 12:29:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Gentzen

probe graph

if distance > 0.858*maxrange, longer range probe is stronger. however using possible strongest probe is usually good idea because you can not know real distance in advance.


While the graph looks mostly accurate you must have made some mistake in your math, it's > 0.96 of max range not 0.86 where the longer range probe have more strength than the shorter range. Think you forgot to include the strength drop of the shorter range probe as well.

I found the same behavior when doing the math on ship probes. Considered including it in my guide but with such a small span where it matters, combined with the fact that it's still better to use the shorter range probe due to it's smaller max scan deviation I decided not to.

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.18 12:49:00 - [18]
 

Gas Cloud Harvesting

This is the info the agents on the gates in COSMOS constellations give you

Quote:

A Guide To Booster Manufacturing
Boosters are made through processing chemicals extracted from special gas clouds which can be found in certain deadspace
areas in many regions. Some constellations however are rumored to have massive clouds of a scale not seen anywhere else,
for example E-8CSQ, 09-4XV, 9HXQ-G, OK-FEM, Pegasus, Assilot, I-3ODK and 760-9C. Finding these clouds requires the
ability to conduct long range scanning, for example via scan probes. Finding them however is not always an easy task, it
sometimes requires quite a bit of exploration before one is found.

The downside of searching for these clouds is the fact they are mostly located in dangerous pirate infested space. Few if any
of these clouds exist in civilized space, having been depleted long ago by the human mega-corporations. Hence searching for
them can be quite risky and not recommended except for an experienced combat pilot.

To extract the chemicals from the gas clouds, you need a gas cloud harvester module. You also need to find the correct type
of gas cloud. Not all clouds have chemicals that the gas cloud harvester can extract, and therefore you might have to go
through some trial and error to begin with before you get the hang of gas cloud harvesting.

Today most boosters are very much illegal in civilized space, due to the horrible side effects experienced by users during the
Great Booster Craze many decades ago. Therefore manufacturing them must be done in lawless space, outside the sphere of
power of the major civilized factions. Also anyone caught smuggling illegal boosters into civilized space can face very steep
penalties.

Manufacturing boosters is set into a few phases. Phase 1 is extracting the material from the gas cloud. Phase 2 is using a
starbase with the appropriate structure to process the chemicals and create reactions. Phase 3 is using a station that allows
booster manufacturing, stations known as Outposts would work, to process the reaction and create the booster. This will result
in the creation of a fairly common booster. With additional work, and the right blueprint and combination of low quality
boosters, one can create higher quality versions in the Outpost or starbase laboratory.


There's no point talking to these agents until you have a Gas Cloud Harvester I module, which is found through exploration somehow. I don't have one, I'm not sure. You also need the skill, which is found a different way. Without the skill and the module gas clouds are essentially worthless.

Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
Posted - 2006.12.18 13:11:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Hoshi
Edited by: Hoshi on 18/12/2006 12:15:01
Originally by: Daron

To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence.


NICE! fits down to the 5th decimal on my sample values. I did know my formula was slightly off and I did test some e^ stuff but I never got it to fit well enough.


Awesome

All my exploration numbers are suddenly sensible values like 0.1 rather than throwing out silly decimals and varying for different probes at the same site

Elfman
Combat-Evolved
Posted - 2006.12.18 13:37:00 - [20]
 

I have spent the last couple of days trying to track down a gravimetric location in haatomo.

Launch multi - yep shows up.

Fly to outer planets and drop 3*4au probes and 1 4au probe (at a different innder planet each time) and so far nada.

when they all time out redo and same result.

Any clue to what I am doing wrong?

hate to think how much its cost me so far in probes since the last patch but wts lots of ss with shuttles ;)


Thorny
Posted - 2006.12.18 14:07:00 - [21]
 

I worked most of this out myself, and there are a few things I didn't know all in all cheers for the guide, well written.

easy to follow

Ickaruss
Final Destination.
Scalar Federation
Posted - 2006.12.18 18:22:00 - [22]
 

A Great guide.

I Have only Explored in 0.0 So far finding this very adictive to do and love doing it.

My finds so far 4x radar = Hacking sites one had a Bpc
1x Mag = Archelogical
3x Unknown = Complex
3x Grav = Bistot belts

Mara'kull
Posted - 2006.12.19 00:53:00 - [23]
 

Delete these guides dont sticky them, let people figure **** out for themselves

Krulla
Minmatar
Miner Protection Guild
Posted - 2006.12.19 01:01:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Mara'kull
Delete these guides dont sticky them, let people figure **** out for themselves


Rolling Eyes

Daron
Posted - 2006.12.19 01:46:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Daron on 20/12/2006 00:00:46
Rather than feed Mara'kull the troll, he's inspired me to post some of that "secret information" he'd prefer people not know. Well, it's not secret, but it was kind of a light-bulb moment for me, and it has made scanning that little bit more enjoyable.

The radius/strength ratio of various exploration sites seems to vary with the site's value. For example, an "Exploration Small (Omber)" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.2, while an "Exploration - Large - Omber" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.05. That means it is 4 times harder to scan down the better site (in the above example, with maxed skills and sitting 0km away from the large Omber, you still only have a 15% chance of it showing up on any of your Gravimetric Quest Probe scans - with no skills and sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!).

Why was this a light-bulb moment? Because whereas before I would get more and more frustrated when a known Gravimetric Signature picked up with a Multispec simply refused to show up after repeated (ie 20+) Quest scans, it now makes me more and more confident that I've stumbled across one of those harder-to-find sites, and makes me even more determined to find it.

K24Q
Posted - 2006.12.19 02:13:00 - [26]
 

Thanks for this guide, I found my first Profession site today :) unfortunately it had already been harvested, and as I was inspecting it someone else turned up to harvest it. This guide was a great help and especially useful for the 2 hours I sat there getting nothing. Anyway just because you read the guide doesn't mean you be any good at finding these things. It requires alot of patience and determination and it full of setbacks.

Trinity Faetal
Gallente
Little Garden
Posted - 2006.12.19 02:22:00 - [27]
 

these posts are very god ugh

DNightmare
Stripper Mine Co.
Posted - 2006.12.19 05:06:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Mara'kull
Delete these guides dont sticky them, let people figure **** out for themselves


Crying or Very sad so no stickey for this one? :P

btw: updated some more screenies & tipps :) enjoy!

Estan Drake
Cross Roads
Posted - 2006.12.19 08:35:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Daron
Originally by: Joerd Toastius

Each site seems to have a set value for the "sig radius/sensor strength" ratio, generally between 0.1 and 0.2. If you do some calculations for ships you'll see that this is a pretty low number, equivalent to an interceptor with 200 or so sensor strength. With quests you'll be looking for a signal strength between 0.1 and 0.4 on the right probe type. This means it can take ten or fifteen tries to get a result, but the probes last for an hour and a bit so you can afford to sit around and keep trying until you get something.



Rather than feed the troll, he's inspired me to post some of that "secret information" he'd prefer people not know. Well, it's not secret, but it was kind of a light-bulb moment for me, and it has made scanning that little bit more enjoyable.

The radius/strength ratio of various exploration sites seems to vary with the site's value. For example, an "Exploration Small (Omber)" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.2, while an "Exploration - Large - Omber" has a Gravimetric ratio of 0.05. That means it is 4 times harder to scan down the better site (in the above example, with maxed skills and sitting 0km away from the large Omber, you still only have a 15% chance of it showing up on any of your Gravimetric Quest Probe scans - with no skills and sitting 4AU away, that chance falls to 4.6%!).

Why was this a light-bulb moment? Because whereas before I would get more and more frustrated when a known Gravimetric Signature picked up with a Multispec simply refused to show up after repeated (ie 20+) Quest scans, it now makes me more and more confident that I've stumbled across one of those harder-to-find sites, and makes me even more determined to find it.



Shhh! don't listen to this man! He is obviously a probe manufacturer trying to increase sales
Laughing
Sorry couldn't help myself, i'm not usually in a position to be a troll. Even if a sarcastic one

ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Posted - 2006.12.19 08:45:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 19/12/2006 08:50:02

Originally by: Daron
Edited by: Daron on 18/12/2006 06:27:23
Actually, from just the Signal Strength, you can calculate the distance from your probe to the actual site (the real site, not the ghost signature) down to just a couple of meters.

We know how Signal Strength is calculated, and the only variables unknown once our results come back are distance to the deadspace and it's visibility (I've forgotten what Hoshi called it, but it's the equivalent of a ship's Radius/Sensor Strength). Anyway, since almost all the locations I've found have either a visibility of 0.1 (combat, profession) or 0.05 (mining), I use these to calculate a distance from probe to site, and it is accurate to within 50 meters or so. It's not especially useful, but it passes the time while waiting for the next 4.9 minutes to tick down.

--edit--

To get the best results, Hoshi's formula needs to be tweaked a little. The equation for calculating the effect of distance (ranging from a multiplier of 1 to 0.35) is actually e^(-(distance / max scan range)^2). The clue was the value for when you were at the maximum of your scan range (0.35) which was just too close to e^(-1) (0.367) to be a coincidence.

Also, the distance in AU is an AU = 149,597,870.691 km (not the rounded 150 that some of EVE's other systems use).


This makes sense. That's similar to the formula I discovered that CCP uses to calculate missile damage based upon target speed and missile explosion velocity. The difference being in that formula, they divide the two main variables instead of subtracting them.

Missile Damage * (Target Signature Radius / Missile Explosion Radius) * e^( -1 * (Target Velocity - Missile Explosion Velocity )^2 / (1500^2) ) = Final Missile Damage

CCP seems to really like using logarithmic functions a lot, most likely because it's a great system to do diminishing returns with and is fairly easy to tweak and adjust. I'm not a math major (actually I dropped out of college after failing Calc 3 times), so I'm not sure what that function you guys found looks like when graphed (wheres my graphing calc when I need it), but it certainly seems to fall into CCP's style of game mathematics.


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