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blankseplocked Revelations Patch Wednesday 13 December, from 1100 to 1500 GMT, OP Updated 11 Dec @ 1730 GMT
 
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Jane Vladmir
Gallente
Warmongers
Eu Allstars.
Posted - 2006.12.10 19:48:00 - [91]
 

Why are mission runners being treated so specially?
It's also easy to find people at safespots, why should it be harder to find people at mission-safespots?

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2006.12.10 21:30:00 - [92]
 

Maybe, just maybe because you usually don't fight 50 NPCs pumping 750 DPS into you at safespots? Rolling Eyes

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.12.10 23:41:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Primaxin
Edited by: Primaxin on 10/12/2006 18:29:36
Originally by: kieron
balancing in system scanning of deadspace in agents/complexes (way too easy) and exploration (way too hard and easier escalation)



The patch notes, unlike the above quote, indicate that exploration will actually be more difficult (quote:"All objects located inside deadspace (missions, exploration scenarios, etc.) are now more difficult to find with scan probes.")

How do we reconcile the stated objective to make exploration easier with the patch notes that say it will become harder? Thanks.

JJZ


You don't scan the stuff inside the Exploration DS, you scan for the "cosmic signature" of the whole thing which brings you to the entrance of the area.

So its unaffected, but scanning for players inside an area will be harder.

Yoshi Takeda
Caldari
Active Fusion
Posted - 2006.12.10 23:45:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Cyclops43
Originally by: Patch Notes
All objects located inside deadspace (missions, exploration scenarios, etc.) are now more difficult to find with scan probes.

A kind of a solution, but not a solution of the core problem. The problem is NOT that someone can scan his way to a mission space (at least in high-sec, low-sec is something else). The REAL problem is what he can DO when he gets there.

Consider the following scenarios:

  1. Scanner warps into mission area, shoots primary mission target, graps mission critical loot.
  2. Scanner warps into mission area, steals mission critical loot. Player gets aggro on scanner, but he has warped out.
  3. Scanner warps into mission area, aggro the whole room, warps out. Mission runner warps out or dies.


In ALL 3 of these, there is absolute NOTHING WHATSOEVER the mission runner can do to prevent it. If he shoots, he's concord'ed on the spot, and in any case, the scanner will warp out just after he's done his dirty deed, and there's ABSOLUTELY NO RISK to the scanner.

I'd class each of these 3 pure griefing since there's NOTHING you can do to prevent it, there's NOTHING you can do once its happened, and there's NOTHING you can do afterwards to mitigate the effects.

Therefore, I still think the best thing you can do, CCP, is the following:
1. Disable scanning into deadspace (and also of accel gates) completely.
2. Implement something against the 3 above scenarios.
3. Re-enable scanning into deadspace.

Otherwise, if what you want is that mission runners ARE griefable, please come straight out and say so.



The overall idea is ok but no matter - as long the possibility is given
also the possibility of griefing is given - and you can bet on it - being taken.

Diziet Bint
Posted - 2006.12.11 01:18:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Diziet Bint on 11/12/2006 01:19:43
Originally by: Twiagon
Corp Factions standings was broken with Revelations, then it was fixed the following day for 1 DT and has been broken ever since.

Will this be fixed? Pleeeeeeaaasssseee Laughing


/signed

However, whilst I notice *my* view of corp standings hasn't changed, others now see my corp->NPC standing as correctly calculated since Revelations. Will be testing on Monday to see if a corp member can get Jump Clones.

[edit by Mister C] stoopid forums revert to 1st alt's name after previewing a post Evil or Very Mad

Vandervecken Smith
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Posted - 2006.12.11 02:55:00 - [96]
 

A partial solution to the whole mission griefing problem is to set it up so that anyone not in your gang who enters a deadspace area is automatically hi-sec combat flagged to the mission running character and his gang. Mission runners will be able to defend themselves against hi-sec mission griefing.

BaneMaker
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
Privateer Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.11 07:57:00 - [97]
 

As metioned before, it would be a really big help if it were possible for corps to set standings towards an alliance.

It's strange it is not already in the game tbh.


Shayla Etherodyne
Posted - 2006.12.11 08:28:00 - [98]
 

I think here is the right spot to signal what I think can be on the border between a legitimate activity and an exploit with the re-seeding of the BPO and invention.
I I have the right information accepting a BPO will whipe all the research point from a R&D agent, but there is a week of time to accept.

During that week the player can require datacores from the agent, 4 every day, so reducing the total RP of 2.000 every day.
So a player can use at least 12.000 of the RP that have got him the BPO offer to buy datacores acquiring datacores for 6 days, and the 7th day acquiring the BPO.

While that can be acceptable for players that have accumulated RP for an year and over, some player like me, with only some thousand of points in different agents can get the datacores and in the end "pay" the BPO only some hundred of RP.

So I think CCP should consider if this will be classified as an exploit or not before it appen.

Cyclops43
Posted - 2006.12.11 09:32:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Vandervecken Smith
A partial solution to the whole mission griefing problem is to set it up so that anyone not in your gang who enters a deadspace area is automatically hi-sec combat flagged to the mission running character and his gang. Mission runners will be able to defend themselves against hi-sec mission griefing.

Combat flagging is a nice theoretical solution, but in the real world it wouldn't work. It'd just make even more griefers do this.

Scenario: Griefer jumps in, mission runner attacks him, griefers ganged corp mates jump in and kill the mission runner.

In reality, it'll just open another avenue of griefing.

Achilles Heal
Posted - 2006.12.11 11:58:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Achilles Heal on 11/12/2006 12:07:36
I am not sure if anyone else has experienced an issues with the (R) mouse button after docking? I am unable to find a thread for this. Almost every time I dock, my (R) mouse button no longer functions as it should. The cursor suggests that it is being clicked but I am unable to use any (R) click drop down menus. I am forced to restart Eve each time to resolve this.

I am also still experiencing flickering planets and rings, something which was not happening prior to Revelations. Is this being addressed in Wednesday's patch?

Any suggestions or solutions?

Treher
Minmatar
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2006.12.11 13:59:00 - [101]
 

The rings of planets flicker for me as well.

Cyclops43
Posted - 2006.12.11 14:04:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: patch notes
# The material amount received from salvaging has been increased based on ship classes, i.e. more salvage material will be received from a battleship than a frigate.
# The chance of receiving Circuits as salvage material and the quantities dropped have been greatly increased.

Relating a bit to this, how about the mission spawns that has until now yielded absolutely nothing when salvaged. Will this be fixed?

CCP kieron

Posted - 2006.12.11 17:32:00 - [103]
 

The following additions to the Patch Notes have been made:

*Corp Application texts and Corp Description text entry fields can now hold more information.
*You can now search for alliances and alliance short names in the People & Places tab.

Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
Posted - 2006.12.11 18:35:00 - [104]
 

I know its mentioned in this forum and the news and probably a couple more places but just for consitancy and officialness, or whatever can the patch notes state that Tech 2 BPO's will be getting seeded.

Just worries me when something is said to be in a patch but is not in the patch notes. *Jet wonders will it really make it into the patch?

Thanks.
Jet

Dumaal
Posted - 2006.12.11 19:40:00 - [105]
 

Please add HOURS, MINUTES, SECONDS to time remaining for auctions.

Thanks,
Dumaal

Simon Jax
Gallente
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.12.11 20:17:00 - [106]
 

I just gotta pipe up on the Gate Queues. Don't get me wrong, if a system is getting overloaded I can totally see the need to stem the flow for the server's sake. And given the addition of "Warp to 0m" I can't really complain from a "oh $#%&, pirates" standpoint.

But great jumpin potatomatos, when I finally get into a system after a 10 minute scenic tour of ... the gate ... I expect to see a whole lot more than 10 people in Local. Ok, so i can understand the system getting overloaded by people passing through rather than people in the system, but at the very least make that clear!!! The 'jumps in last hour' statistic isn't a reliable indicator of this if that is the case (I've checked) likely due to the gate-queues.

I mean, kudo's for keeping the whole running smoother at the expense of a little extra downtime at the gates ... but please, please make the reason readily apparent. "There are 150 people trying to go through this system, that there are only 10 there now isn't the problem." Aura's already quite the *****, let her tell us, we can't very well shoot the messenger then.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.11 20:23:00 - [107]
 

How hard would it be to flag the Mission Deadspace ownership to the Mission Runner as well as any of the mission critical items and Rats?

If a Griefer then attacks that "Owned" item, they get visited by Concord, just like the mission runner would for shooting the Griefer...

Gang members or Corp Members share ownership, thus no problem...

In other words, Mission runner is in the "Unauthorized Military Presence" griefer can pop in and shoot any and every rat EXCEPT the transport that carries the militants (marines)... they blast the transport, Concord shows up and blasts them...

The other addition would be to have aggression flagging not extend beyond the mission space, so a Griefer steals my stuff, I choose to shoot at them, their Gang/Corp mates hanging out waiting are NOT flagged to attack me unless they were already in the area, only the griefer is(which may be more then enough)… Then it’s my choice to shoot or not… if I see a large gang, I can choose not to shoot... I don't see the large group (but they are there) I can rename my ship "Toast", but that would be my fault.

Kedar Lwmys
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.11 20:56:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Quote:


All objects located inside deadspace (missions, exploration scenarios, etc.) are now more difficult to find with scan probes.



Could we get some more information on this please? I.e. is it still going to be practical to scan mission runners? Or are our newly available probes' capabilities nerfed to the point that we have no chance at all to find mission runners anymore?

We *just* got the ability to finally scan out mission runners in a practical manner. Now it appears that this will be removed from the game again. Will objects be more difficult to scan based on ship size? What is the increase in difficulty of finding objects in deadspace versus normal space? Is it a percentage? Is it a flat increase? Is it linear? Geometric?

Due to the chance based nature of probes as it is will it be possible to discriminate between the probe failing to pick up an object that it should, compared to not being able to due to user error? I'd hate to sit around for an hour trying to scan someone down, just to find out that the probe was simply too weak to get a valid ping, and not through any fault of my own.

Will the probe skills improve performance to a point that scanning for objects (scumbag carebear mission *****s) in deadspace will be a reliable activity? Inquiring minds want to know. ugh



Sociopaths like you should be locked away, so civilized people don't have to endure their prattle.

Dutschetss Vilhelmena
Caldari
Ordo Rosa Crux Templaris
Posted - 2006.12.11 23:54:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena on 12/12/2006 00:01:53
Edited by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena on 12/12/2006 00:00:42
Research Slots need significant increase!

We have more players since the RMR changes when the present number of research facilities was determined.

With the glut of new BPO's it is difficult to find research slots for Material Effeciency research or even for Manufacturing.

Please provide new research facilities. Please feel free to charge more for a premium slot (It would be cool if every player could have one personal slot always available, but maybe to balance things it could be more expensive?)

With the many new BPO's we do not need the already-wealthy corps and alliances to get all the research slots to boot.

Remember, its the wealthy corps that have billions laying around who bought T3 BS and T2 BC BPO on the first day, so are you going to permit the "rich to get richer?"

T2 Reseeding: Make it FAIR!

As for "reseeding T2 BPO's" I think it would be fair to exclude any character who has already earned a T2 BPO from further eligibility. They already won one "golden ticket" lets give the newer guys a chance.

Thank you,
D.V.

MORRS
Posted - 2006.12.12 05:25:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena

Research Slots need significant increase!

We have more players since the RMR changes when the present number of research facilities was determined.

With the glut of new BPO's it is difficult to find research slots for Material Effeciency research or even for Manufacturing.

Please provide new research facilities.

I agree

Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena
T2 Reseeding: Make it FAIR!

As for "reseeding T2 BPO's" I think it would be fair to exclude any character who has already earned a T2 BPO from further eligibility. They already won one "golden ticket" lets give the newer guys a chance.


I do not agree, it's the lottery and everyone should have an equal chance including you. They are all paying customers like you.

IMHO

Commander Thrawn
M. Corp
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.12.12 07:27:00 - [111]
 

so no tech II bpo re-seeding then?

Rafein
Posted - 2006.12.12 09:31:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena
Edited by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena on 12/12/2006 00:01:53
Edited by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena on 12/12/2006 00:00:42
Research Slots need significant increase!

We have more players since the RMR changes when the present number of research facilities was determined.

With the glut of new BPO's it is difficult to find research slots for Material Effeciency research or even for Manufacturing.

Please provide new research facilities. Please feel free to charge more for a premium slot (It would be cool if every player could have one personal slot always available, but maybe to balance things it could be more expensive?)



Great idea. We can call them Mobile labs, and these personal labs lots anchorable at POS's. Of course, we would have to allow them in Empire. It's a wonder why no one has thought of this before. Rolling Eyes

As for reseeding, it's being done Wednesday, AFAIK, and to be fair, everyone has the same chance.

Dragy
Caldari
United Constructions
Posted - 2006.12.12 09:43:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Commander Thrawn
so no tech II bpo re-seeding then?

re-seeding on r&d agents, not on market

Nocturnal Prince
von Dutch Enterprises
G String University
Posted - 2006.12.12 11:08:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: Nocturnal Prince on 12/12/2006 11:09:18
Originally by: Rafein


Great idea. We can call them Mobile labs, and these personal labs lots anchorable at POS's. Of course, we would have to allow them in Empire. It's a wonder why no one has thought of this before. Rolling Eyes



Thanks for saving me the chance to be really sarcastic.
Need labs and research slots? want to get them even if it means paying a premium? It sounds like she failed to notice she was discribing POS labs under the current system.

Cant afford a POS? band together and get one as a group

Shayla Etherodyne
Posted - 2006.12.12 12:32:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena

Research Slots need significant increase!

We have more players since the RMR changes when the present number of research facilities was determined.

With the glut of new BPO's it is difficult to find research slots for Material Effeciency research or even for Manufacturing.

Please provide new research facilities. Please feel free to charge more for a premium slot (It would be cool if every player could have one personal slot always available, but maybe to balance things it could be more expensive?)



Totally agreed, we need more research and copyng slot, as the new invention system will make them even more indispensable for the BPC to try invention.

Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena

T2 Reseeding: Make it FAIR!

As for "reseeding T2 BPO's" I think it would be fair to exclude any character who has already earned a T2 BPO from further eligibility. They already won one "golden ticket" lets give the newer guys a chance.



Here I disagree.
Even if I have started research 6 months ago and I have 0 T2 BPO, I don't think it is fair.
The people with R&D agents from the start have worked on them, at least to raise the standing, so it is only right thet they still get the chance to get new BPO.

Some of the old vinners have got high paying BPO, other some marginally good.
Discriminating them en masse is hardly fair.

wystler


ISD YARR
Interstellar Services Department
Posted - 2006.12.12 13:16:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena
Research Slots need significant increase!

We have more players since the RMR changes when the present number of research facilities was determined.

With the glut of new BPO's it is difficult to find research slots for Material Effeciency research or even for Manufacturing.

Please provide new research facilities.
You may want to try a POS Lab or two on a small POS tower.

It doesn't cost as much to run or set up as you might think, given Concord protect hi-sec POS. That doesn't apply if you are at war with anyone though of course YARRRR!!

POS labs and POS manufacturing work at 1/5 reduction compared to an empire station.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.12 14:56:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: wystler
Originally by: Dutschetss Vilhelmena
Research Slots need significant increase!

We have more players since the RMR changes when the present number of research facilities was determined.

With the glut of new BPO's it is difficult to find research slots for Material Effeciency research or even for Manufacturing.

Please provide new research facilities.
You may want to try a POS Lab or two on a small POS tower.

It doesn't cost as much to run or set up as you might think, given Concord protect hi-sec POS. That doesn't apply if you are at war with anyone though of course YARRRR!!

POS labs and POS manufacturing work at 1/5 reduction compared to an empire station.


This is a great idea, and we (the player corp I am with) are working toward this... the problem becomes getting your Corp. standing up enough for the controlling authority to allow you to set up your High Sec POS.

Perhaps thought could be given to lowering the requirements for High Sec POS placement proportionate to the security of the system (if it is this way already, forgive me, I am still new to the game) so that where you may need a Corp Standing of 8.0 to set up your POS in Sec 1.0, you need 6.0 in .8 and 3.0 in .5 space...

Takigama
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.12.12 15:15:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Takigama on 12/12/2006 15:15:49
If im not mistaken, im guessing we wont be seeing the new multispec probes anytime in this patch (which is a shame). they're on sisi but dont appear to be seeded anywhere (either the probe or the bp).

The skills req's are currently astrometrics 1 for these.

I cant wait to see these, scan probing (exploration) is not much fun, it would be nice to just drop a probe and know if the system contains something worth scanning. The effort to track down (and run) a plex arent really on a par with what you get from the plex at the moment

Keeping in mind, they are supposed to tell you about everything in a system, but not where it is (if im reading correctly).

ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
Posted - 2006.12.12 16:45:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Cyclops43
Originally by: Vandervecken Smith
A partial solution to the whole mission griefing problem is to set it up so that anyone not in your gang who enters a deadspace area is automatically hi-sec combat flagged to the mission running character and his gang. Mission runners will be able to defend themselves against hi-sec mission griefing.

Combat flagging is a nice theoretical solution, but in the real world it wouldn't work. It'd just make even more griefers do this.

Scenario: Griefer jumps in, mission runner attacks him, griefers ganged corp mates jump in and kill the mission runner.

In reality, it'll just open another avenue of griefing.



Not true actually.

If the mission runner attacks an unganged person in "his" mission then that person cannot call for help. He's on his own. This has been clearly demonstrated many times in the mechanics around can theft and flagging.

The only call the mission runner has to make is "can I kill the guy in my mission without dieing to him?"


Cyclops43
Posted - 2006.12.12 16:52:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Originally by: Cyclops43
Originally by: Vandervecken Smith
A partial solution to the whole mission griefing problem is to set it up so that anyone not in your gang who enters a deadspace area is automatically hi-sec combat flagged to the mission running character and his gang. Mission runners will be able to defend themselves against hi-sec mission griefing.

Combat flagging is a nice theoretical solution, but in the real world it wouldn't work. It'd just make even more griefers do this.

Scenario: Griefer jumps in, mission runner attacks him, griefers ganged corp mates jump in and kill the mission runner.

In reality, it'll just open another avenue of griefing.



Not true actually.

If the mission runner attacks an unganged person in "his" mission then that person cannot call for help. He's on his own. This has been clearly demonstrated many times in the mechanics around can theft and flagging.

The only call the mission runner has to make is "can I kill the guy in my mission without dieing to him?"

If you'd read my post, you'd have noticed the 'griefers ganged corp mates jump in' part.


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