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blankseplocked CCP: are rigs meant to be another rich pilots toy?
 
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Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2006.12.06 08:59:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 06/12/2006 09:32:55
We have faction items and rarities.

We have implants, both hardwiring and pirate.

And then theres tech 2 feiasco.

Do we really need rigs to be another pimpmymissionship kind of item?


From the point of view of a player, say, a couple of months in the game, it's going to take him a hell of a long time to compete, he may be curious, want to go into pirating or just general solo pvp, but because difference in performance and price of rigged ship setups and none rigged setups is so great, he'll be detered.

hell, i wouldn't be supprise if that player quit eve via mission burn out and general boredom.
Great, another thing in EvE to seperate the new from the vets.

From the point of view of a player, say a merc or a experianced vet, will you fit a rig? no, not for those prices, and if you did, you'd be far less inclined to use that ship for anything other than ganks and fleets.
Great, another reason not to PvP

From the point of view of a player, say someone who doesn't play very often, but enjoys all aspects of the game, savaging and affording te components and rigs is just a massive time sink. Your effectivily reducing the quality of the gaming experiance by adding another inflated collectors item in there in which the only hope of assertaining would be through buying ISK online - this already happens because of the above.
Great, another reason to buy isk



Multiply the above with the fact that supply at the current or predicted rates will NEVER go anywhere near satisfying demand, rigs, an idea in which there was so much promise has been sidelined to the curiousity and "nothing" features of the game.

And if you think things are just naturally going to improve with rigs, to any significant level. please, get a clue, and spend a few days... DAYS trying to make one, either on your own or with a corp mate -

CCP, are rigs going to be another rich mans toy?

If not, when are you going to atempt to fix it?

DarkFenix
Caldari
Lords 0f Ruin
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:09:00 - [2]
 

Yes they are another rich man's toy, yes they will give an advantage to veteran players. So what? We've been playing the game for ages, we've been paying for the game for ages, we deserve some advantage.

Is this advantage unfair? No. Rigs, faction, all this stuff, they don't make your ship invincible, they make it an expensive target. In a one on one fight sure a guy with expensive gear will beat a newbie. That's why they call this an MMO. Gang up on bigger meaner players. A well led small gang of 1 week old newbies can easily take down a battleship flying beta player. Rigs or not.

Strength Cow
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:10:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Great, another thing in EvE to seperate the new from the vets.

In EVE even new people can make amazing amounts of isk if they are SMART and/or hard working! So this is not "another thing to seperate noob from vet" but another thing to seperate "smart/organized/hard working" from "dumb/confused/lazy." Sounds fine to me.

BTW, rig prices will drop DRAMATICALLY in the future, even without CCP changing the drop rate of rig components.

So stop.

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:16:00 - [4]
 

As far as I'm concerned, the idea behind rigs was to make ships *more* customizable and less cookie cutter. Not to just alter *some* ships *some* times when you can afford it.

Everyone who knows me knows that I fit faction items to almost every ship I fly. I'll do the same with rigs. However, I'd much rather that they were very readily available and made people make more decisions about how they fit their ships; vets/people with money gaining an advantage is crap. I don't want another advantage, I want to beat people because I'm better than them.

/signed

CCP Oveur

Posted - 2006.12.06 09:21:00 - [5]
 

There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.

Asuo
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:24:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Oveur
There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.


Whaa whoooo. Thx's Oveur.

CCP Oveur

Posted - 2006.12.06 09:26:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Asuo
Originally by: Oveur
There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.


Whaa whoooo. Thx's Oveur.


Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here Laughing

Lunadi
Minmatar
Solar Trade
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:26:00 - [8]
 

Sell your salvaged stuff asap, that's the last week to make $$ on it ;-). Prices will probably stabilize at 10-2k per piece later.





slothe
Caldari
Jian Products Engineering Group
Atlas.
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:27:00 - [9]
 

as i keep saying to all kali whiners...lets see how it levels out before we start moaning about anything.

christ its only been a week, LOTS of new stuff in KALI, lots of people trying out things, demand for new stuff is huge, and what do we get with huge demand and limited supply (think t2 bpos) oh yes high prices, what a surprise Rolling Eyes

maybe it is borked, but we couldnt tell yet.

Tension
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:30:00 - [10]
 

I heard ASCN had announced deployment of Eve's first rig, but now BOB say they had 2 rigs all along and all ASCN do is keep theirs at a POS.

Any truth in this? Razz

Testy Mctest
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:33:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: slothe
as i keep saying to all kali whiners...lets see how it levels out before we start moaning about anything.



If nothing gets mentioned, it never gets fixed.

Originally by: Oveur

Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here Laughing


My forum whoring powers appear to be weakening :(

Asuo
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2006.12.06 10:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Asuo
Originally by: Oveur
There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.


Whaa whoooo. Thx's Oveur.


Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here Laughing


With the amount of posts flying all ovwer the place its hard to keep up mister Oveur sir. Embarassed

CCP Oveur

Posted - 2006.12.06 10:18:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Asuo
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Asuo
Originally by: Oveur
There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.


Whaa whoooo. Thx's Oveur.


Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here Laughing


With the amount of posts flying all ovwer the place its hard to keep up mister Oveur sir. Embarassed


This thread is your friend Very Happy

(when it's updated of course ...)

KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.06 10:24:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: KIAEddZ on 06/12/2006 10:26:56
Originally by: Strength Cow


BTW, rig prices will drop DRAMATICALLY in the future, even without CCP changing the drop rate of rig components.

So stop.


No they won't, you are like many other people, speaking from ignorance. Go and actually try and make a rig, look at the effort involved, it is a huge lump of man hours, the prices may falle 10 even 25%, but that doesnt and isnt going to effect where rigs lie in the scheme of things. As it stands, they are for the rish, and as it stands, only the rich will buy them.

Stop talking utter ignorant sht. Thx.

What is needed is a dramatic change to the engine that surronds the Rifg making process, we shall see what the promises made by the Devs bring.

Xsag
Caldari
Red Galaxy
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2006.12.06 10:26:00 - [15]
 

i dont agree as a new player (approx 2months play), i think the rigs are great - the bpo's for rigs are cheap as chips - sure u need alot of salvage parts to make these items but the key thing here is cost of production - and although it may be time consuming to acquire the parts needed it is cheap to do so and there is no elitism surrounding the bpo's as they are available to everyone - i was looking on the market and they are costing aronud 100k which as we all know is sweet fa


Lunadi
Minmatar
Solar Trade
Posted - 2006.12.06 10:55:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: KIAEddZ

No they won't, you are like many other people, speaking from ignorance. Go and actually try and make a rig, look at the effort involved, it is a huge lump of man hours, the prices may falle 10 even 25%, but that doesnt and isnt going to effect where rigs lie in the scheme of things. As it stands, they are for the rish, and as it stands, only the rich will buy them.

Stop talking utter ignorant sht. Thx.



What effort? The only thing that will make rig prices is component supply (and that is one thing that can be sooo easily controlled by CPP).
First time I played with salvagin yesterday I got a 50% drop ration from frigs/cruisers. AFAIK there are plenty of players who likes to loot/salvage and imho they will make the supply really huge. I'm also betting rig prices will be quite low.


Argenton Sayvers
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:00:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: DarkFenix
A well led small gang of 1 week old newbies can easily take down a battleship flying beta player. Rigs or not.


You havent seen the good ship setups then. When rigs finally hit TQ, many of them will be able to tank entire fleets. If NOS ever get nerfed, they will be totally indestructible.


Kesslan Osefice
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:02:00 - [18]
 

I'm sure prices will continue to drop significantly, keep in mind when thef irst few comoennts alone started hitting the market they were selling for 1M + a pop. Their now down to around 375k a pop and falling steadily.

Drop rates just need abit more tweeking is all along with more people hoping onto the salvage bandwagon. Which will happen.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:03:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Asuo
Originally by: Oveur
There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.


Whaa whoooo. Thx's Oveur.


Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here Laughing

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Don't worry, they'll be asking again in a few minutes LaughingLaughingLaughing

Di Jiensai
Gallente
Domination.
THE KLINGONS
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:06:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Pattern Clarc


From the point of view of a player, say, a couple of months in the game, it's going to take him a hell of a long time to compete, he may be curious, want to go into pirating or just general solo pvp, but because difference in performance and price of rigged ship setups and none rigged setups is so great, he'll be detered.




For a Player 3 months into the game, the best thig to do would be train Salvaging NOW and get insanely rich.
You should be easyly able to get 20M in less than an hour.


Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:09:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Asuo
Originally by: Oveur
There are improvements to Salvaging coming in the patch next week, which affects the commonality of Rigs.


Whaa whoooo. Thx's Oveur.


Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here Laughing

Now you know what I feel when I answered all those question about probing for cloaked ships... Very Happy

Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:10:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Amaron Ghant on 06/12/2006 11:10:01
Originally by: DarkFenix
Yes they are another rich man's toy, yes they will give an advantage to veteran players. So what? We've been playing the game for ages, we've been paying for the game for ages, we deserve some advantage.


As a veteran of nearly three years, I have to say that I totally disagree with you when it comes to rigs.

We already have advantages...lots of them. Rigs donīt need to be added to that list.


Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:18:00 - [23]
 

This thread is totally bollox. As a corp building exercise we decided to make a rig. Two hours of ratting later we had the bits needed. And Krond build a rig.

So if a small 4 person corp can build a rig with no real problems, I dunno what you mega corps a moaning about.

Tell me a fair price for a rig and I'll put it on the market.

Ridley Tree
Veto.
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:23:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: DarkFenix
Yes they are another rich man's toy, yes they will give an advantage to veteran players. So what? We've been playing the game for ages, we've been paying for the game for ages, we deserve some advantage.

Is this advantage unfair? No. Rigs, faction, all this stuff, they don't make your ship invincible, they make it an expensive target. In a one on one fight sure a guy with expensive gear will beat a newbie. That's why they call this an MMO. Gang up on bigger meaner players. A well led small gang of 1 week old newbies can easily take down a battleship flying beta player. Rigs or not.


There are two thing that are really kinda missing from that equation. First; Most noobs do not have a bunch of friends in game already so that they can co-ordinate that kind of attack on a veteran. Second; Most Veterans do have a large amount of friends/corp mates/alliance mates that are just itching for a fight and when a call goes out on vent "hey some noobs are ganking my Caldari Navy Raven complete with rigs" 10 HACs will show up to kill said newbs before they can get halfway done breaking the tank.

There really should not be a large amount of generic content in this game dedicated to those players who can afford to have big expensive targets. Have rigs, have really damn expensive TIII Uberomgpwnz Rigs that cost a lot of cash. But there should be a gradient from the ones a noob will fit on his T1 frigate to the ones Veterans will fit on their HACs and Faction Battle Ships. Sort of like how there is that gradient from T1 frigate to HACs, Faction and Titans...

Kazaam
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:29:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: KIAEddZ

No they won't, you are like many other people, speaking from ignorance. Go and actually try and make a rig, look at the effort involved, it is a huge lump of man hours, the prices may falle 10 even 25%, but that doesnt and isnt going to effect where rigs lie in the scheme of things. As it stands, they are for the rish, and as it stands, only the rich will buy them.
Stop talking utter ignorant sht. Thx.

What is needed is a dramatic change to the engine that surronds the Rifg making process, we shall see what the promises made by the Devs bring.

No one forces you to actually salvage rig needed items.
No one forces you to rush the stores to buy and fit your brand new overpriced rigs.

Lots of people to salvage them all,
craft them,
fit them,
and in teh blobz, lose them.

The point is, if you want cheaper rigs, wait until ebayers, rich arses, corps/alliances to get their hands onto those, then the market will go "too much supply for too few demand", then prices will drop.

This is a typical offer/market rule.

This lesson is over. The prices WILL drop.

You shouldn't call people ignorant when you obviously are, but you should consider taking some more Economics lessons.

Asuo
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:42:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Banana Torres
This thread is totally bollox. As a corp building exercise we decided to make a rig. Two hours of ratting later we had the bits needed. And Krond build a rig.

So if a small 4 person corp can build a rig with no real problems, I dunno what you mega corps a moaning about.

Tell me a fair price for a rig and I'll put it on the market.



A bit more info please, ie which rig. COs if it took 4 people 2 hours to make a simple rig then its gonna need to sell for a bit to cover the player time involved.

The prices will only drop when it becopmes easyer to collect the components. At the moment it's a little difficult to get the large amount of parts need for some of the items, which means fewer people may want to invest the time to build them, which means fewer on the market thus higher prices.


inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
Asomat Drive Yards
Posted - 2006.12.06 11:42:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kazaam
You shouldn't call people ignorant when you obviously are, but you should consider taking some more Economics lessons.
Is that the standard cop-out for when you can't be bothered to back anything up with figures? Laughing

Because, I'm not sure if you're aware of it, your response just called CCP ignorant. By your argument nothing should be changed with salvaging, and yet it is going to be changed. Wink

Kazaam
Posted - 2006.12.06 12:03:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Kazaam
By your argument nothing should be changed with salvaging, and yet it is going to be changed. Wink


I've never said nothing should be changed to it. I only argued on the fact there's no rush to get rigs.

The changes coming to the rigs will only hurry the process up to get the prices more decent.

Darkon Gatland
Amarr
The Alpha Company
The Alpha Company Protectorates
Posted - 2006.12.06 13:09:00 - [29]
 

Patience younglings!

Evil Basterd
AFK Mining
Posted - 2006.12.06 13:26:00 - [30]
 

Sorry if this question has been asked but have not seen it in anything I have read so far. Do all the wrecks drop everything that is salvagable or does each faction drop different stuff?

Thannks for your time


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