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keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.12.07 10:25:00 - [151]
 

Heretic only has 200 calibration

As if it didn't suck hard enough already Laughing

AngryMusheen
Minmatar
Can We Haz Your Stuff
Shadow Cartel
Posted - 2006.12.07 10:28:00 - [152]
 

welp, my gf and I are one of those quiet, carebear PvE'ers that stick to ourselves and do not venture into anything lower than .4 (and that is rare, we stick to high-sec).

95% of our game is missions. 5% is building and selling.

I dig the whole salvage thing, but like everyone else, I want my loot cans back because I don't plan on doing any salvage. Just continuing with missions and loot. My gf plans to stick to the same things also.

We've been playing this time for over a year, and twice previous for a year and for 8 months. So on our third trip through Eve, we are used to the patching and the nightmares for 2-4 weeks after a major upgrade like this.

We do what we always do...play another game for a while, or go outside and enjoy something other than sitting in front of the computer.


I don't want to be griefed by jerks in high-sec. That's basically asking me to stop paying for two monthly accounts.

I stick to high sec knowing there's a very very very very small chance that some radical dude might just open fire on me outside a station or out in a belt etc. That's reality.

I stick to high sec knowing that some griefer can't just come and make my game experience miserable in all the ways that have been described on the last page or two...so please make sure that our game experience stays positive in this manner.

I got nothing against PvP'ers. You have a zillion systems to fight over and wage war, alliance war, whatever war against each other. Even pirates and bounty hunters have their place out there.

I don't want it in "my city" basically. Imagine it like real life. In real life, if the cops (Concord?) allows jerks to grief (rob/steal/pillage/****/kill) me and my gf, we simply move to a safer neighborhood with less crime (ie: high sec). If the cops still can't control the crime and we get griefed, we then have to move to a safer city (ie: stop paying for this game and start paying for a game that doesn't allow that sort of thing to happen).

I know other MMO's have pvp and pve separated servers. No chance of that in Eve, and personally I don't want it. I want that tiny bit of thrill and huge amount of fear on those few times I have to cruise through a .2 and three .3's and a couple .4's just to go get some super special item like an insanely expensive gun or hard-to-find bpo. I want that rare action where some moron has attacked my corp members and there's about 40 of us hanging around the station or outside the station so I too can get a little whipping in where I normally would avoid like the plague such pvp neanderthalism ;).


I pays my money, and I takes my chances...but there's a pretty fine line there as to what is no longer fun (like griefers in high sec that have almost free-reign as well as the whole wreck and oh gee whiz there's 30 of them, which have loot? thing that is being addressed).

Three tours of Duty through Eve so it must still be one of the best games we've ever played. I'm sure the devs will take care of it. As I said, always takes 2-4 weeks to sort out all the nightmares after major upgrade (and your diety of choice knows how many major upgrades, major patches, minor patches, emergency patches, etc we've had to wait out patiently in the years we all been playing heh)

ok that's my bits. I'm gonna play some Neverwinter Nights 2 for another week until this is all sorted!

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.07 10:47:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Cyclops43
Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 10:04:17
Originally by: kieron
*Adjustments to the scan system so that:
-griefing mission runners in deadspace complexes is more difficult

....

The problem is not as such whether mission runners are easy/hard to track down. The problem is what a griefer is able to do when he gets to the mission space.
...
So, what can a griefer do?
  • 1. Steal loot. Perfectly all right in my opinion. ...

  • 2. Salvage wrecks. Perfectly all right in my opinion. ...

  • 3. Steal kills. Perfectly all right in my opinion. It even helps the mission runner since he earns LP faster. NOTE: This is provided that my 5th point doesn't come into play!

  • 4. Steal mission item. This one is a bad one, since it ruins the mission and causes the mission runner to suffer a large standings loss. This should in no way be possible to do.

  • 5. Aggro room and warp out. This can cause two things. Either the mission runner dies, or he has to warp out. Both of them very bad since the mission runner had NO possibility of preventing it. He can't shoot back, all he can do is either see his ship explode if he's so unlucky to be scrambled, or warp out and have to enter the mission again, which possibly (worst case) can include 200+km of crawling across empty mission rooms to reach gates (in a non-AB Raven, this takes almost 25 minutes)!

Of the 5 actions above, I personally would only consider #4and #5 griefing. The mission runner has NO possibility of preventing them, and it ruins the mission for him. Have that happen to you a few times, and missions will rapidly loose your interest.

Some people (in other threads) have suggested that anyone entering a mission area not in gang/corp with the mission runner gets an automatic aggro. This'll not be a viable solution, but will instead help griefers. Why? It'll then attract the griefers who in addition to the above wants to kill the mission runner. One ship warps into the mission area that looks managable for the mission runner, he shoots at it, the rest of the guys corp jump in and kill the mission runner.

My suggestion to what CCP should do about this is:
...
  • 2. Put a solution in place that prevents #4 and #5 above from being possible.

  • ...



    I have suggested this in other threads but fear it will be lost in the "noise" of the countless post on the argument.

    The mission should be accessible, but not so easily.

    Currently the hunter scan for a ship, an easy target when we are speaking of a mission ship (not a covops), even when the ship is in a mission site or in one of the hidden exploration pockets.
    So with a low strength and fast probe he can find a site that is in theory hard to find (a deadspace area, a cosmic signature) only because a player ship is there (notice itis not possible to scan for NPC ships).

    So my suggested solution is to make the deadspace areas and cosmic signatures and all that those areas contains, hard to find like a cosmic signature, so requiring the high strength probes and the extended time.
    While a dedicated hunter can then scan for a target and follow him, the tipical griefer will find the longer time and work to get "gratification" sufficent to dissuade him.

    To add a system to make harder stealing the critical loot should be found.
    It could be a locked container for the target item, requiring a code given with the mission to open or hacking if the persons trying to open it isn't the mission runner that has got the mission.

    This option will even reduce the power play done for increasing the standing of some alt, where other players run the mission for the alt.

    Cyclops43
    Posted - 2006.12.07 11:01:00 - [154]
     

    Originally by: Venkul Mul
    ...
    The mission should be accessible, but not so easily.

    Currently the hunter scan for a ship, an easy target when we are speaking of a mission ship (not a covops), even when the ship is in a mission site or in one of the hidden exploration pockets.
    So with a low strength and fast probe he can find a site that is in theory hard to find (a deadspace area, a cosmic signature) only because a player ship is there (notice itis not possible to scan for NPC ships).

    So my suggested solution is to make the deadspace areas and cosmic signatures and all that those areas contains, hard to find like a cosmic signature, so requiring the high strength probes and the extended time.
    While a dedicated hunter can then scan for a target and follow him, the tipical griefer will find the longer time and work to get "gratification" sufficent to dissuade him.

    To add a system to make harder stealing the critical loot should be found.
    It could be a locked container for the target item, requiring a code given with the mission to open or hacking if the persons trying to open it isn't the mission runner that has got the mission.

    Decent suggestion, but I really don't think it'll work that well. Unfortunately, I think you underestimate the nastiness of a griefer. He's doesn't get his kicks from stealing your stuff, neither from gaining ISK. What makes his little miserable self happy is to ruin other peoples gaming experience. If the game mechanics allow it, he'll go to any length to do it, even throwing gazilions of expensive slow scan probes at it.

    The possibility of seriously griefing a mission runner should not be reduced, it should be removed completely.

    If the two serious mission grief points are adressed (i.e. stealing mission critical loot, and causing the whole room to aggro the mission runner), I don't see it that big a problem that people can access mission space (though it should probably be a little harder than today). Loot stealing (with the crappy loot for missions these days) is really not that big a problem.

    Yoshi Takeda
    Caldari
    Active Fusion
    Posted - 2006.12.07 11:11:00 - [155]
     

    add blowing up mission critical loot to the list - thats what those guys like to do as well

    But I still stick to not allowing it to happen at all or maybe restrict it to missions in lowsec space.

    There your adjustment would suit fine.



    OneSock
    Crown Industries
    Posted - 2006.12.07 11:46:00 - [156]
     

    Ok so how about the deadspace warp gate locks when the npc rats agro. "Serpentis forces have enabled Security lockdown on this gate."

    Nobody except the mission runner and those who warp in with him can enter the deadspace.

    Kedrich
    Posted - 2006.12.07 11:56:00 - [157]
     

    Edited by: Kedrich on 07/12/2006 11:57:46
    Edited by: Kedrich on 07/12/2006 11:57:08
    Well, I would like to remind global things which have to be fixed before any particulars (missions, wreaks, scanning, etc.)

    1) camera zoom on your ship resets after jumping/undocking
    2) white flash on jumps
    3) removing "neutrals" in overview will remove "bad" and "horrible"

    First two are noted in "known issues" already, so it's just a reminder.
    Last one isn't. CCP, please add it to the "to do first list".

    Thanks.

    Leandro Salazar
    Quam Singulari
    Posted - 2006.12.07 11:57:00 - [158]
     

    Maybe lock the gate, but make it hackable, and have that process take 5 minutes (-10% per level of hacking skill) during which time the pirate may not cloak either. So ambushing a missioner would still be possible if he is careless, but would also be dangerous to the pirate in case the missioner is careful, scans the pirate and warps out and/or gets a gang to decend onto the hacker.

    Audrea
    Evolution
    IT Alliance
    Posted - 2006.12.07 12:38:00 - [159]
     

    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

    CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears Neutral

    Cyclops43
    Posted - 2006.12.07 12:55:00 - [160]
     

    Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 13:11:07
    Originally by: Audrea
    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

    CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears Neutral

    I wondered how long it would be before the first PvP fanatic post came up.

    So you're basically saying that "Nobody should be allowed to play this game unless they do it my way!"
    What would you say if someone told you that you could only play EVE by doing missions and mine? I bet you wouldn't like that much, but it would be exactly the same as what you say, except from the other side of the fence.

    The PvP fanatic point of view is a VERY egotistical way of looking at things. There are lots of different player types in EVE, and not all of them want PvP all day long. Some don't want it at all.
    Believe it or not, these people pay just the same as you in subscription, and they're just as entitled to continue playing EVE in their way as you are in yours. Up until now, mission runners have been reasonably sure not to be bothered. They weren't 'safe', but reasonably so.

    This character is my mission character. I have 0.0 alliance characters too. I understand both points of view, and I understand that having non-PvP ing 'carebears' is just as important to EVE as having PvP'ers. Them being in empire and mining/missioning/whatever doesn't bother me the slightest. Why the h*** should it bother me (or any PvP'er)?

    The exception is of.c. the few (like you) who simply can't stand other people having fun in their own way. It's either your way or the highway, right?

    Oh, and don't give me the old 'EVE is a PvP game!" excuse. EVE stopped being a pure PvP game when high-sec got introduced. After that, EVE became a 'PvP & PvE' game.

    Chruker
    Posted - 2006.12.07 13:13:00 - [161]
     

    Back to topic.

    I've noticed that the 'Current attributes' on the Player Creation screen, doesn't include the attribute points gained from skills like 'Analytic Mind'.

    Leandro Salazar
    Quam Singulari
    Posted - 2006.12.07 13:18:00 - [162]
     

    Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 13:19:26
    Originally by: Audrea
    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

    CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears Neutral


    And I don't understand wtf gankbears always have to post their biased antics while obviously having zero clue.

    Or can you explain to me how I am supposed to do all these things simultaneously:

    - Being aligned and and warp speed towards a station
    - Advancing towards the next deadspace gate
    - Manoevering so I don't aggro additional spawns
    - Killing 50 NPCs
    - Managing my tank
    - Scrolling through the overview to see if maybe a pirate has slipped in
    - Scanning for probes every 20 seconds

    And even better, how to extend my scanner range so I can pick up spooks and observators on it, which also can give pinpoint results now?

    Now please get a clue about mission running before posting your BS.

    Exogene
    Posted - 2006.12.07 13:28:00 - [163]
     

    Edited by: Exogene on 07/12/2006 13:30:05
    I don't understand the whinage about wrecks. They are basically the same as loot cans, just that they can be salvaged. Now, if you don't want to salvage, then don't, it is pretty self explanetory. And if you think people will track your mission area down by scanning wreck, well then destroy your wreck. This must be the most ridiculous whine i have ever heard to be honest. Wreck are great and they should stay. (cept for the color thing, maybe make empty wrecks a bit of a different color as to not get confused, i.e. white and grey is silly)

    p.s. and to whom did this "griefing" of killing mission specific loot and aggroing the whole mission happen? Do you realize you are just giving ideas to griefers?

    trollface2
    Caldari
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Posted - 2006.12.07 13:43:00 - [164]
     

    Hello. Did we get an answer on gang skills maybe getting changed so they work properly? Someone says they are being updated/modified but i cant find anything about it, heres a link to the thread im talking about.... they really badly need fixed ty.

    http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=436387

    Cyclops43
    Posted - 2006.12.07 13:48:00 - [165]
     

    Originally by: Exogene
    I don't understand the whinage about wrecks.

    People don't mind wrecks. People mind a mission creating 50 wrecks, of which 5 contain loot. You have to visit all 50 to find the loot. Before, that mission would drop 5 cans.
    Originally by: Exogene
    p.s. and to whom did this "griefing" of killing mission specific loot and aggroing the whole mission happen? Do you realize you are just giving ideas to griefers?

    Too late. The griefing started when the new scan methods was introduced with Revelations, and accelerated exponentially when the recon probe launchers were released a week later in the first patch (when scan time went from 10 to 2 minutes.

    Menkaure
    Amarr
    LEM0N
    Posted - 2006.12.07 14:18:00 - [166]
     

    I might be missing something somewhere, but where the hell is the info on the RND agents being reseeded? Hammer was supposed to give a blog about it this week sometime (hell, didn't Oveur say they'd be seeded by last Tuesday?) and there's been squat information.


    Audrea
    Evolution
    IT Alliance
    Posted - 2006.12.07 14:43:00 - [167]
     

    Originally by: Cyclops43
    Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 13:11:07
    Originally by: Audrea
    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

    CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears Neutral

    I wondered how long it would be before the first PvP fanatic post came up.

    So you're basically saying that "Nobody should be allowed to play this game unless they do it my way!"
    What would you say if someone told you that you could only play EVE by doing missions and mine? I bet you wouldn't like that much, but it would be exactly the same as what you say, except from the other side of the fence.

    The PvP fanatic point of view is a VERY egotistical way of looking at things. There are lots of different player types in EVE, and not all of them want PvP all day long. Some don't want it at all.
    Believe it or not, these people pay just the same as you in subscription, and they're just as entitled to continue playing EVE in their way as you are in yours. Up until now, mission runners have been reasonably sure not to be bothered. They weren't 'safe', but reasonably so.

    This character is my mission character. I have 0.0 alliance characters too. I understand both points of view, and I understand that having non-PvP ing 'carebears' is just as important to EVE as having PvP'ers. Them being in empire and mining/missioning/whatever doesn't bother me the slightest. Why the h*** should it bother me (or any PvP'er)?

    The exception is of.c. the few (like you) who simply can't stand other people having fun in their own way. It's either your way or the highway, right?

    Oh, and don't give me the old 'EVE is a PvP game!" excuse. EVE stopped being a pure PvP game when high-sec got introduced. After that, EVE became a 'PvP & PvE' game.



    On the contrary, I do understand. I have a carebear alt as well.

    However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications.
    Risk vs Reward anyone? Wink

    Audrea
    Evolution
    IT Alliance
    Posted - 2006.12.07 14:46:00 - [168]
     

    Edited by: Audrea on 07/12/2006 14:46:56
    Originally by: Leandro Salazar
    Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 13:19:26
    Originally by: Audrea
    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

    CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears Neutral


    And I don't understand wtf gankbears always have to post their biased antics while obviously having zero clue.

    Or can you explain to me how I am supposed to do all these things simultaneously:

    - Being aligned and and warp speed towards a station
    - Advancing towards the next deadspace gate
    Do it AFTER the spawn is becoming manageable.
    - Manoevering so I don't aggro additional spawns
    Piloting skills? :P
    - Killing 50 NPCs
    Ingame skills, proper fitting?
    - Managing my tank
    Ingame and outgame skills, proper fitting?
    - Scrolling through the overview to see if maybe a pirate has slipped in
    No need to, use directional scanner, make overview setting not showing NPCs. if you still cant figure it out, go learn to pvp a bit
    - Scanning for probes every 20 seconds
    see above, probes by themself arent threat, its the players who get into the plex, thats all you need to scan for

    And even better, how to extend my scanner range so I can pick up spooks and observators on it, which also can give pinpoint results now?

    Now please get a clue about mission running before posting your BS.

    MrTripps
    Gallente
    Hedonistic Squirrels
    Posted - 2006.12.07 14:55:00 - [169]
     

    Originally by: Audrea
    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    We already have a monster thread about this issue. 18 pages in one day. We should keep it there to save room for other whines here.

    Cyclops43
    Posted - 2006.12.07 15:07:00 - [170]
     

    Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 15:22:13
    Originally by: Audrea
    However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications. Risk vs Reward anyone? Wink

    Even if that was so (some people actually enjoy PvE without PvP, no matter the ISK), why is it that it is YOU who decides how other people are to play???

    Who appointed you as having a monopoly on deciding how to play EVE?

    Mission runners are not bothering you. They don't shoot you, they don't steal from you, they don't grief you. They're not even in your space. Extending the same courtesy to them would make you a decent person.

    There IS Risk vs. Reward. You get 5k LP in empire, you get 10k in low-sec, you get 15k in 0.0 for essentially the same mission. There are mission runners blown up in missions in safe empire every day, so it is not without risk.

    You're not really interested in that though, are you? What you really is interested in is destroying other peoples EVE experience, right?

    Let other people play EVE in their way, don't try to force then to play it your way. They'll just leave, and EVE will be a poorer place.

    Nikita Ivanova
    Amarr
    EVE University
    Ivy League
    Posted - 2006.12.07 15:07:00 - [171]
     

    Originally by: kieron

    *Changes to the wreck icons so non-Salvagers can identify wrecks containing lootable modules, and
    *Adjustments to the salvage contained in a wreck, thus resulting in better and/or more frequent salvage drops.



    This is terrific news. If possible, please pass on a request to add some extra filters to the overview that'll allow us to distinguish opened wrecks from unopened wrecks, and full wrecks from empty wrecks. That would dramatically reduce the clutter in the overview. Thanks much!

    marioman
    Caldari
    Caldari Macrominer Waste Management
    United Corporations Against Macros
    Posted - 2006.12.07 15:18:00 - [172]
     

    Originally by: Audrea
    Recon probe launcher DOESNT fit on covert ops!! (At least tested on Buzzard, on 2 diffrent accounts, ships, places).

    Quote:

    To bring Recon Probe Launcher I online requires 220000.0 cpu units, but only 375.0 of the 375.0 units that your computer produces are still available.


    On test server that worked, why doesnt now?

    Why does it fit on Heron, and other T1 ships+Recon ships, but not on covert ops??

    If its not a bug, pls let us know...


    Thanks.


    I have one fitted just fine on my Buzzard.

    On another note there is a serious issue with my buzzard eating my probes!

    Not paying attention i tried to switch probes while cloaked, I had Spook probes loaded, went to switch to Snoop and it unloaded the Spook but didnt load the Snoop, when I checked my cargo I am missing 12 Spook probes! Completely gone, not anywhere to be found. Whatsoever.

    Leandro Salazar
    Quam Singulari
    Posted - 2006.12.07 16:16:00 - [173]
     

    Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 16:21:37
    Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 16:17:47
    Originally by: Audrea
    Edited by: Audrea on 07/12/2006 14:46:56
    Originally by: Leandro Salazar
    Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/12/2006 13:19:26
    Originally by: Audrea
    I dont understand WTF mission runners are whining about?!

    If you ever bothered to try the PVP side, you would know how to use directional scanner, to have proper alert about incoming ships into your deadspace area.. and having enough time to decide what to do.

    CCP dont listen to those chickens who want to farm all day without the slightest fears Neutral


    And I don't understand wtf gankbears always have to post their biased antics while obviously having zero clue.

    Or can you explain to me how I am supposed to do all these things simultaneously:

    - Being aligned and and warp speed towards a station
    - Advancing towards the next deadspace gate
    Do it AFTER the spawn is becoming manageable.
    - Manoevering so I don't aggro additional spawns
    Piloting skills? :P
    - Killing 50 NPCs
    Ingame skills, proper fitting?
    - Managing my tank
    Ingame and outgame skills, proper fitting?
    - Scrolling through the overview to see if maybe a pirate has slipped in
    No need to, use directional scanner, make overview setting not showing NPCs. if you still cant figure it out, go learn to pvp a bit
    - Scanning for probes every 20 seconds
    see above, probes by themself arent threat, its the players who get into the plex, thats all you need to scan for

    And even better, how to extend my scanner range so I can pick up spooks and observators on it, which also can give pinpoint results now?

    Now please get a clue about mission running before posting your BS.



    Well thanks for proving that you are indeed totally clueless about professional mission running as well as reading posts. Just as a little hint, I asked how I can do all these things simultaneously, meaning all at the same time. How to do them individually or a few of them simultaneously is obvioiusly trivial. But all of them? Which is what would be required to be safe in a mission with that new scanning stuff.

    And how exactly does it help you to scan for a player ship near you when it will appear in your room at the latest about 30 seconds after he first becomes scannable? I say again, get a clue. Not like you will, prejudiced egomaniacs that you and your ilk are...

    Now don't get me wrong, I like PvP, actually probably more than missions which is why I am staying in lowsec for now (though mostly idling in station rather than doing something these days). But I don't like doing both at the same time. If CCP wants missions to be more dangerous, they gotta improve the NPCs. Not subject us to PvP at every turn. Or how would YOU like it if CCP decided to spice up PvP with PvE by introducing a chance for NPC spawns that are omgwtfbbqoverpowered whenever players shoot each other? Wouldn't that be great?

    Cyclops43
    Posted - 2006.12.07 16:20:00 - [174]
     

    Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 16:21:26
    Originally by: Leandro Salazar
    Or how would YOU like it if CCP decided to spice up PvP with PvE by introducing a chance for NPC spawns that are omgwtfbbqoverpowered whenever players shoot each other? Wouldn't that be great?

    I actually think that a better analogy would be if PvP were 'spiced up' with the occational 'roid appearing that the PvP'er had to mine out before they could continue their battle Razz

    This example, while funny, really exposes what it means to impose one play style on a player who prefers another.

    Simon Jax
    Gallente
    Battlestars
    GoonSwarm
    Posted - 2006.12.07 16:30:00 - [175]
     

    I think my post was lost in the page-transition. To summarize:

    Why the hell does scanning down a ship that is within a deadspace complex send the finder to the acceleration gate in the first place? This makes absolutely no sense from any gameplay mechanic. If you are ganged with a person, then it does make sense to wind up at the acceleration gate since ship-to-ship communication would account for the location fix on the gate. Hell, if you drop a bookmark in a deadspace, and try to warp to it, you get the “I can’t do that Dave” since it’s in the deadspace instead of warping to the gate! At the very least be consistent.

    The solution is to make people scan down the gate itself, any attempt to warp to a player who is within a deadspace should result in the same “you cannot warp there due to natural phenomenon” that your own bookmarks generate. Yes, people can still get there if they can scan down the gate. But that takes much higher skills but at the same time gives the would-be griefer something else to do with those skills with the Exploration system.

    I apologize for repeating myself.

    Lrrp
    Minmatar
    The Graduates
    Morsus Mihi
    Posted - 2006.12.07 16:39:00 - [176]
     

    One thing I have a problem with is my overview. Prior to patch all the items in overview would be in a fixed position with new items (such as a newspawned npc) showing up at the bottom. Now it is like a shell game. All of the overview items are constantly shifting around to the point I can no longer use it to select targets. Don't know if anyone else has similar problem.

    Matrix Aran
    Reikoku
    IT Alliance
    Posted - 2006.12.07 17:33:00 - [177]
     

    Originally by: Cyclops43
    Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 15:22:13
    Originally by: Audrea
    However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications. Risk vs Reward anyone? Wink

    Even if that was so (some people actually enjoy PvE without PvP, no matter the ISK), why is it that it is YOU who decides how other people are to play???

    Who appointed you as having a monopoly on deciding how to play EVE?

    Mission runners are not bothering you. They don't shoot you, they don't steal from you, they don't grief you. They're not even in your space. Extending the same courtesy to them would make you a decent person.

    There IS Risk vs. Reward. You get 5k LP in empire, you get 10k in low-sec, you get 15k in 0.0 for essentially the same mission. There are mission runners blown up in missions in safe empire every day, so it is not without risk.

    You're not really interested in that though, are you? What you really is interested in is destroying other peoples EVE experience, right?

    Let other people play EVE in their way, don't try to force then to play it your way. They'll just leave, and EVE will be a poorer place.




    The original post you quoted was refering to people getting killed in low sec I take it? In that case i aprove of people getting ganked in missions in low sec. There should always be considerable risk in moving and operating in low sec, even to mission runners. Mission runner who know what they are doing (and there are alot of them, look at all the CNRs floating about) don't die to the NPCs, so with instajumps, and now warp to 0.0 they're pretty much 99% safe. So now that scan probes have been fixed to scan in 3D the mission runners are now at risk, and all is well with Eve. What I do believe is lame though are the people running into missions in high sec to ransom off mission loot.

    Audrea
    Evolution
    IT Alliance
    Posted - 2006.12.07 18:23:00 - [178]
     

    Originally by: Cyclops43
    Edited by: Cyclops43 on 07/12/2006 15:22:13
    Originally by: Audrea
    However what you mission runners types want, is easy ISK makers, without any risk of being cought, or complications. Risk vs Reward anyone? Wink

    Even if that was so (some people actually enjoy PvE without PvP, no matter the ISK), why is it that it is YOU who decides how other people are to play???

    Who appointed you as having a monopoly on deciding how to play EVE?

    Mission runners are not bothering you. They don't shoot you, they don't steal from you, they don't grief you. They're not even in your space. Extending the same courtesy to them would make you a decent person.

    There IS Risk vs. Reward. You get 5k LP in empire, you get 10k in low-sec, you get 15k in 0.0 for essentially the same mission. There are mission runners blown up in missions in safe empire every day, so it is not without risk.

    You're not really interested in that though, are you? What you really is interested in is destroying other peoples EVE experience, right?

    Let other people play EVE in their way, don't try to force then to play it your way. They'll just leave, and EVE will be a poorer place.



    You dont understand the philosophy this game is founded on.
    Non-consentual PVP is CORE part of the game!!
    Its not WoW or sims or whatever, where you can only gain, and never loose.
    Maybe you right, maybe its a bit too harsh for the empire mission runners (by empire I mean high sec, low sec really deserves higher risk).

    So you see, its not me who imposes certain playstyle on PVE runners (god who even invented such thing for eve! Laughing)
    Whoever plays EVE, must accept this reality, that he cant avoid PVP if someone wants to force it upon him.

    EVE Was not a poor place three years ago, and it wont be a poor place when all 'PVErs' leave.
    Just less lag for fleet battles Twisted Evil

    Quote:

    Well thanks for proving that you are indeed totally clueless about professional mission running as well as reading posts. Just as a little hint, I asked how I can do all these things simultaneously, meaning all at the same time. How to do them individually or a few of them simultaneously is obvioiusly trivial. But all of them? Which is what would be required to be safe in a mission with that new scanning stuff.



    I did couple Lvl 4 with a Deimos (not even a faction BS, mind you). So its possible, all you need is to focus, and all those things are attainable.

    The only problem is, some people (like yourself perhaps?) want to warp in, start approaching gate, aggro certain spawn with their Navy Raven, and press F1, F2... F7 :P
    Rinse and repeat, without too much thought process or anything. simply farm them without too much effort on their part.

    Xelios
    Minmatar
    Broski Enterprises
    -Mostly Harmless-
    Posted - 2006.12.07 18:52:00 - [179]
     

    In the name of all that's holy please try to adjust the map so it doesn't reposition itself every time you open it or change systems. It's incredibly disorienting.

    Leandro Salazar
    Quam Singulari
    Posted - 2006.12.07 19:03:00 - [180]
     

    Originally by: Audrea
    Rinse and repeat, without too much thought process or anything. simply farm them without too much effort on their part.


    That is actually what YOU want to do with mission runners :P
    I just want missions to be fun, not work. Which doing all the safeguards would be. Not to mention that some of the things I mentioned are technically impossible to do (like at the same time being aligned and approaching the next gate). And of course all the warpouts when a potential pirate shows up in local totally destroy the isk/time ratio.

    I would love CCP making missions more challenging with better and less predictable PvE content. I do not want them to be a fish-barrel for gankbears. That will just depopulate lowsec, and, if the highsec ganking is not curbed somehow, make a boatload of players leave. I know that will make you happy in the pants since those people actually have the gall to enjoy playing without ruining someone elses day, but I doubt those players and CCP share your joy.


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