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Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:06:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 06/12/2006 01:52:34
I was not paying attention and there could have been a warning, but I didn’t notice it. (Insert yawns and bleary eyes here.Smile) I went through and did the Amarr and Caldari starter missions yesterday to get that little extra boost to faction standing. The Amarr one wasn’t too bad, I got 3x 0.2708% for the starter missions and 0.7721% and 1.2% for the two storylines. OK not bad. (The Caldari one also had significantly better loot and pay, go figure.)

I go up to the Caldari ones, note my standing of 7.83 (7.42) and get their 3x 0.2708% boosts, and finish their two storyline missions for 1.2% and 0.6075% and check my standings which are now 7.77 (7.35)!!! (After the 5 increases!)

There was a –0.8% Ship Kill from the 2 of 2 storyline that gives 1.2% boost! I don’t recall there being a warning that completing one of the Caldari starter missions ruins your Caldari standing. What sense is there to that? The Amarr mission had me kill Khanid ships, and I did get a ship kill loss there for Khanid Kingdom, but that one didn’t hurt too much. (It’s still stupid, they're allies after all.) Thank God the starter missions didn’t kill my precious shiny Amarr standing.

Why do the starter missions ruin your standing with the faction you are running the missions for? Why doesn’t it have you fight their enemies? Sure when you have no standing the ship kill doesn’t hurt so much, but when you have higher standing it kills you. Oh and did I mention how completely stupid it is, these are beginner missions after all.

Oh and the Data Centers are beyond useless. I hope some of those new missions coming tomorrow are for those agents.

-lighty edited to accommodate a low-salt dietSmile

Miss Overlord
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:14:00 - [2]
 

yawn it happens

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:20:00 - [3]
 

I think this is related to a current bug in the agent standings. I destroyed a bunch of caldari ships in one mission, and the transactions only show one 0.8% loss.

Verus Potestas
Caldari
SP4RTANS
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:26:00 - [4]
 

There is a warning. In fact, the mission description specifically states that you will lose caldari faction for completing it.

Bet you'll read the description next time Laughing

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.04 21:51:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Verus Potestas
There is a warning. In fact, the mission description specifically states that you will lose caldari faction for completing it.

Bet you'll read the description next time Laughing


Good, that's what I was wondering. It was late and I was starting to just skim over the descriptions (you tend to do that after the thousandth mission). I was surprised when those ships dropped Caldari tags.

Perseus D'Solos
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:22:00 - [6]
 

I accidentally lost 1.2 standing out of 5.6ish to the Minnie Republic a few months ago. Was also because of one of the starter missions. And the description said nothing about standing losses. Damn I was upset, hehe. Oh well.

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.12.05 08:26:00 - [7]
 

I agree this is really stupid. I lost a bit of standing due to this as well and never saw the warning...

The whole point of the mission is to get newbs faction... so why is there a faction hit as part of the mission? The caldari mission sends you to kill caldari pilots... seems really stupid to me.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2006.12.05 09:24:00 - [8]
 

The mission you are referring is the one give by Kikko something, right?
It is better than before. the original version gave a standing loss for the mission.
The best choiche was to fail it intentionally.
Unless it is changed it is a sideline shortstoryline (2 episodes) so you are not breaking something not doing it.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2006.12.05 09:26:00 - [9]
 

maybe it's done for this very reason - to prevent old players from doing those missions, as they have already received some standings from pre-kali tutorial missions...

CCP Zrakor

Posted - 2006.12.05 13:06:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Zrakor on 05/12/2006 13:08:50

It says in the mission description that you will lose standing with the Caldari State for completing it. It is also not required to finish the sequence, only the first mission for Kikko is required.

I'll consider taking out the faction hits for destroying those Caldari ships, but you'll have to learn sometime down the line to watch out which missions you do if you are concerned about standing. I consider it more of a feature than anything else that you can sometimes stumble upon an agent that gives you some standing loss towards his faction (rogue agents and criminals who belong to a certain faction are not unrealistic after all).

The main problem here is that the standing loss tends to be too severe from killing stuff in dungeons/complexes. I'll have a chat about that with some people in game design and see if we can come up with a solution.

(Also these are not actually tutorial missions, they are mission sequences which you can receieve after the tutorial. The tutorial missions consist of 2 very basic missions which you receive at the very first newbie station).

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.06 02:32:00 - [11]
 

It just struck me as odd that the mission goes: Caldari State – you bastard, you killed our ships!, -0.8%, then; Caldari State – hey thanks for killing our ships, +1.2%. The Amarr one was more palatable since you were only losing standing to a side faction. (Which after doing the Amarr one first was what I was thinking, a boost to Caldari and a loss to a side faction.) Wouldn’t fighting Mordu’s, Khanid or Ammatar be a little better?

On a slightly related note: What’s the deal with the data centers? I went to the Ammatar one and could only do the grad cert agent and the bronze tag agent. None of the other agents would talk, even after I finished the bronze tag mission. I have 9.16 (9.00) with Ammatar, so they should be coughing up the goods. Are they in now with the latest patch?

CCP Zrakor

Posted - 2006.12.06 09:32:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Hockston Axe
It just struck me as odd that the mission goes: Caldari State – you bastard, you killed our ships!, -0.8%, then; Caldari State – hey thanks for killing our ships, +1.2%. The Amarr one was more palatable since you were only losing standing to a side faction. (Which after doing the Amarr one first was what I was thinking, a boost to Caldari and a loss to a side faction.) Wouldn’t fighting Mordu’s, Khanid or Ammatar be a little better?

On a slightly related note: What’s the deal with the data centers? I went to the Ammatar one and could only do the grad cert agent and the bronze tag agent. None of the other agents would talk, even after I finished the bronze tag mission. I have 9.16 (9.00) with Ammatar, so they should be coughing up the goods. Are they in now with the latest patch?



The + standing is a bug, but one that I don't mind so much as you are currently losing too much standing from destroying the ships.

As for the data centers, I assume you are referring to the Amarr data center, there are no Ammatar data centers as far as I know. They should be handing out the 'Keeping Crime In Check' mission for more types of tags, which require higher standing. Perhaps your Amarr standing is too low to accept all of them? I'll have someone from Q/A take a look just in case.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.06 09:47:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Zrakor
The main problem here is that the standing loss tends to be too severe from killing stuff in dungeons/complexes. I'll have a chat about that with some people in game design and see if we can come up with a solution.


Zrakor, the way that standing is calculated means that once you get to a high standing, ANY loss is too severe.

Example...

I'm at 9.9 and I gain 10% standing...(10-9.9) x 0.1 = 0.01 gain

I'm at 9.9 and I LOSE 10% standing...9.9 x 0.1 = 0.99 loss.

So...to put it into context...someone that Caldari State REALLY loves makes one tiny mistake and they have to do 99 missions to get back to where they were. Someone who the Caldari State has only just heard of goes on a rampage and kills lots of Caldari ships...and doesn't lose as much standing as the first loyal citizen.

I'm currently at 9.86, and YES, I want that Cosmos offer...but you seem to be putting all sorts of traps and pitfalls in my way. I don't play as much as some, so that 9,86 represents FOUR YEARS work...I don't want that blown away just because of one dodgy mission.

Hockston Axe
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.06 20:16:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Hockston Axe on 06/12/2006 20:37:07
Originally by: Zrakor
Originally by: Hockston Axe
It just struck me as odd that the mission goes: Caldari State – you bastard, you killed our ships!, -0.8%, then; Caldari State – hey thanks for killing our ships, +1.2%. The Amarr one was more palatable since you were only losing standing to a side faction. (Which after doing the Amarr one first was what I was thinking, a boost to Caldari and a loss to a side faction.) Wouldn’t fighting Mordu’s, Khanid or Ammatar be a little better?

On a slightly related note: What’s the deal with the data centers? I went to the Ammatar one and could only do the grad cert agent and the bronze tag agent. None of the other agents would talk, even after I finished the bronze tag mission. I have 9.16 (9.00) with Ammatar, so they should be coughing up the goods. Are they in now with the latest patch?



The + standing is a bug, but one that I don't mind so much as you are currently losing too much standing from destroying the ships.

As for the data centers, I assume you are referring to the Amarr data center, there are no Ammatar data centers as far as I know. They should be handing out the 'Keeping Crime In Check' mission for more types of tags, which require higher standing. Perhaps your Amarr standing is too low to accept all of them? I'll have someone from Q/A take a look just in case.


I was referring to the Data Center in Ferira. All of the agents are Ammatar, and when I completed the bronze tag 'Keeping Crime in Check' from agent Hazar Arjidsi (lvl 1 q 20) I got a direct boost to Ammatar (0.279%), and only a derived to Amarr (0.2009%), but I'm past derived mods making a difference there. My Amarr standing is 9.37 (9.25) so that shouldn't be the holdup. Do they require some corp standings in addition to faction like R&D agents do? Their agent descriptions just give the old 'to pilots who meet the requirements' line.

-edit for ‘speelin;’ and maybe they were just intimidated by my vicious Navy Slicer, being Ammatar it might bring back bad memories for them.Smile

Duncan Storne
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:23:00 - [15]
 

Where are standings changes recorded? I can look at standings on my character window before and after a mission, but some of the posts above imply there is a list of changes available somewhere.

Shugo Kazuma
Posted - 2006.12.07 07:53:00 - [16]
 

If you right click on one of the factions IIRC it says someting like Transaction Records and will bring up a window of all your recent standing adjustments with that faction/corp.


 

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