open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked jita/low sec: the solution to both
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:03:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 13:03:45
Originally by: Terdarius
Originally by: Merchantigus

you have no idea what so ever about what you are talking about...
eh....ok you know what just don't post again...4


You should really take you're own advice....


wow that was indeed a convincing bit of argument. i think i'll go kill myself now...

you may not think i know what i'm saying but i know what i'm talking about.. that guy knew neither Rolling Eyes

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:03:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Fuujin
Edited by: Fuujin on 04/12/2006 10:12:22
For one, for a group to put 2 people out of a mining op in low sec on cap duty defeats the whole purpose of mining in low sec. Profit. Putting those 2 people behind mining lasers mining scordite will yield you more money then the alternative, much less risk in the process too.


2 counts of complete and utter nonsense in here:
1) Even in high sec it's a good idea to have pilots flying as a cap in case of Ore Thieves. That said, see below for just how much more lucrative mining in lowsec is.
2) In Lowsec you can make tons more income mining. Find hedbergite (which has zydrine in it) and you will net 4-5 times the value of scordite and you can mine it very easily with just standard strip miners or miner II's. You don't even need specific crystals for it (though they do make it faster). Matter of fact it's more profitable to just find a few belts with hedbergite ore and mine JUST the hedbergite than to strip an entire system in high sec.

Quote:

Second there's the issue of them being able to defend such an endeavor WITHOUT taking losses. More often then not lowsec pirates fly around in groups. Even when they're alone they're usually more then well fitted for quickly dispaching an enemy and getting out of there if need be to come back and pick off another. Even for experienced people with low sec this can sometimes be an issue.



Utter nonsense. Any corp worth a damn can fly plenty of miners and a combat ship group flying cover. You'd only need maybe 10 pilots to pull something like this off with maybe 3 or 4 of them flying cover. Though more of EVERYTHING is better it is NOT necessary.

Quote:

I've seen a single pilgrim pilot take out several ships in a mining party, even with cap. It's not a rare occurence what so ever.



Then both your miners and your cap pilots are morons. Sorry but true. I've been in NUMEROUS 0.0 and Lowsec mining ops and we've NEVER taken a loss during one. As long as everyone stays aligned and folks bolt when a pirate is spotted it's not an issue. Key is to have EWAR pilots in the cap group.

Quote:

It's not worth the payout, it's as simple as that and it doesn't work nearly as easily as you put it.


Yes it is, by far. And yes it does. Easily. As I said. I've been in dozens of these types of ops and never seen a loss yet. Not just in TSA either. Just because you haven't SEEN it done doesn't mean it can't be done. If it couldn't then how do you explain how other corps manage to do it?


DarkFenix
Caldari
Lords 0f Ruin
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:05:00 - [63]
 

Merch you really are clueless aren't you. You spout a load of ill-informed c**p about low sec mining. Pretty much everyone else in this thread has pointed out that you're wrong. Does it not occur to you that these people probably know better than you?

Low sec mining isn't worth the risk, unless you can find yourself some kind of backwater system in the middle of nowhere, which means you spend ages hauling the damned stuff. In my experience, just mine empire or 0.0, nothing else is worth it.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:05:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Taram Caldar
Originally by: Fuujin
Edited by: Fuujin on 04/12/2006 10:12:22
For one, for a group to put 2 people out of a mining op in low sec on cap duty defeats the whole purpose of mining in low sec. Profit. Putting those 2 people behind mining lasers mining scordite will yield you more money then the alternative, much less risk in the process too.


2 counts of complete and utter nonsense in here:
1) Even in high sec it's a good idea to have pilots flying as a cap in case of Ore Thieves. That said, see below for just how much more lucrative mining in lowsec is.
2) In Lowsec you can make tons more income mining. Find hedbergite (which has zydrine in it) and you will net 4-5 times the value of scordite and you can mine it very easily with just standard strip miners or miner II's. You don't even need specific crystals for it (though they do make it faster). Matter of fact it's more profitable to just find a few belts with hedbergite ore and mine JUST the hedbergite than to strip an entire system in high sec.

Quote:

Second there's the issue of them being able to defend such an endeavor WITHOUT taking losses. More often then not lowsec pirates fly around in groups. Even when they're alone they're usually more then well fitted for quickly dispaching an enemy and getting out of there if need be to come back and pick off another. Even for experienced people with low sec this can sometimes be an issue.



Utter nonsense. Any corp worth a damn can fly plenty of miners and a combat ship group flying cover. You'd only need maybe 10 pilots to pull something like this off with maybe 3 or 4 of them flying cover. Though more of EVERYTHING is better it is NOT necessary.

Quote:

I've seen a single pilgrim pilot take out several ships in a mining party, even with cap. It's not a rare occurence what so ever.



Then both your miners and your cap pilots are morons. Sorry but true. I've been in NUMEROUS 0.0 and Lowsec mining ops and we've NEVER taken a loss during one. As long as everyone stays aligned and folks bolt when a pirate is spotted it's not an issue. Key is to have EWAR pilots in the cap group.

Quote:

It's not worth the payout, it's as simple as that and it doesn't work nearly as easily as you put it.


Yes it is, by far. And yes it does. Easily. As I said. I've been in dozens of these types of ops and never seen a loss yet. Not just in TSA either. Just because you haven't SEEN it done doesn't mean it can't be done. If it couldn't then how do you explain how other corps manage to do it?




thank you jesus that's two people so far that aren't clueless.

*hugs leg* Very Happy

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:07:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
[...]you are part of the forge that makes up the core of eves economy and have no use for taking risk since you make make insane amounts of money. you don't need to take risk to make great reward but not everyone is like that.


What keeps you from buying a frigate BPO or BPC and doing the same?
All you need for that is a handful days of skill training and a couple Isk for high end minerals. You can easily mine the lowend minerals in HiSec. Okay, you have to move out of Minmatar space for a certain type, but the basics are the same. Training and skilling up for an industrial is a no brainer once you get your shipyard running so you can transport the cheaper ores and minerals from a few systems away. Please do not buy justany BP and check the market first. Burst is not a ship many pilots buy repeatedly.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:07:00 - [66]
 

"Merch you really are clueless aren't you. You spout a load of ill-informed c**p about low sec mining. Pretty much everyone else in this thread has pointed out that you're wrong. Does it not occur to you that these people probably know better than you?"

except for the few people that are bright enough to know and do exactly what i'm talking about....

"Low sec mining isn't worth the risk, unless you can find yourself some kind of backwater system in the middle of nowhere, which means you spend ages hauling the damned stuff. In my experience, just mine empire or 0.0, nothing else is worth it."

1 .0 makes more money no ****
2 low sec can either make more or less than high sec..thus it's in the middle wow imagine that.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:09:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 13:17:17
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 13:15:28
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Merchantigus
[...]you are part of the forge that makes up the core of eves economy and have no use for taking risk since you make make insane amounts of money. you don't need to take risk to make great reward but not everyone is like that.


What keeps you from buying a frigate BPO or BPC and doing the same?
All you need for that is a handful days of skill training and a couple Isk for high end minerals. You can easily mine the lowend minerals in HiSec. Okay, you have to move out of Minmatar space for a certain type, but the basics are the same. Training and skilling up for an industrial is a no brainer once you get your shipyard running so you can transport the cheaper ores and minerals from a few systems away. Please do not buy justany BP and check the market first. Burst is not a ship many pilots buy repeatedly.


yes there is ****loads of money to be made in production but that isn't what this post is about. i admit i know nothing about making ships and would never argue with a shipwright about it. you are right.
however shiprights aren't miners. once again they are the production people and not who/what this post is about.

and what keeps me from doing it is what keeps people from taking risk or pvping. it's just not my thing.

i'm not saying becoming part of the forge is a bad thing.


i'm not saying NOT taking risk is a bad thing.

i'm not saying everyone needs to take these risk.

i'm saying there is alot money to be made i'm low sec but there are some risk...

btw shipwrights and forge people. you make my ships and guns and i nearly worhsip you :)

rules of eve:
trust no one
dont fly what you cant afford to lose
NEVER **** off the forge guilds lol

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:22:00 - [68]
 

Well, I did my share of mining. That's how I started.
I have a couple of barges and other mining ships sitting all over the place, from HiSec to NulSec.

If my production runs low on minerals I still go mine on occasion when I disagree with the local mineral market. But mining in LowSec isn't worth it. It wasn't last week, it isn't this week, and I do not see it being worth the risk next week.

The chance to lose the mining ship and the industrial within 2 hours is about 90% in my experience. Unless you dock or log out as soon as anyone enters the system. But then the possible gain drops drastically. Mining in an area without production or market doesn't cut it as you have to transport your goods and that takes your time again.

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:25:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 04/12/2006 13:27:00
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 04/12/2006 13:25:30
Originally by: DarkFenix
Merch you really are clueless aren't you. You spout a load of ill-informed c**p about low sec mining. Pretty much everyone else in this thread has pointed out that you're wrong. Does it not occur to you that these people probably know better than you?

Low sec mining isn't worth the risk, unless you can find yourself some kind of backwater system in the middle of nowhere, which means you spend ages hauling the damned stuff. In my experience, just mine empire or 0.0, nothing else is worth it.


While I agree he presents his arguement badly he's not clueless nor wrong.

I've been in many corps in my career in EVE. Some big (ASCN) others smaller. In each and every one we have done mining ops in lowsec and/or 0.0. In every situation if you have a competent group of pilots flying cover a mining op is relatively safe and is far more profitable than high sec mining. If it weren't nobody would do it. . Period.

You can make a much higher profit mining in lowsec/0.0. It takes a bit of planning, a lot of coordination and good communication (Voice comms FTW). But it can and is done, daily. I understand that you may or may not wish to take the risk but telling him he's wrong when there is oodles of proof that he is not is just ludicrous.

I will agree, however, that thinking a couple frigs can fly cover is pretty short-sighted. You need a GOOD cap group, preferably with a couple EWAR pilots.

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:27:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus

*snipped for clarity's sake*

that last bit was so messed up i'm just going to plop down what i get from all of it

a.you only mine in high sec but have only once done it and you are ashamed.


My 'I only mined once in high-sec' was just a witty remark concerning the 'Mr. Veldspar is all there is in highsec'. I'm not ashamed of it, it was just stupid to do since pretty much anything is more profitable than mining veld in a badger.

Originally by: Merchantigus

b. there is no risk but there is alot of risk it's imposible but if you watch local it's not.
c. once again you mine in high sec all day
d. you could make double but it's lousy risk vs reward


... what? Low-Sec = double reward for infinitely higher risk. Do the math. About c.) I could make all kinds of hilarious, sarcastic, self-ironic jokes. But for the sake of my own sanity I wont.

Originally by: Merchantigus

i'm not goig any farther this is hurting my mind...
before you bother me again.
1. figure out if you mine in high sec or not


I don't.

Originally by: Merchantigus

2. leave high sec for once. i say this because you mention mining in high sec more often than you deny it


I can't even fly a frikkin barge.

Originally by: Merchantigus

3. eh....ok you know what just don't post again...


Ok, I'll try. Whoops.

Originally by: Merchantigus

...from what i can figure out of all that
1. if you watch local(and perhaps bring a frig or two it can be done(but at the same time it's impossible)


It can be done if you safespot as soon as someone enters local. And at exactly this point you start losing income, which in turn makes your low-sec mining op not valuable.

Originally by: Merchantigus

2. there is twice the money to be made(atleast he got that right)


In a theoretical system where you a safe from ebil people, yes.

Originally by: Merchantigus

3. you have no idea what so ever about what you are talking about...once you figure out what you are trying to say come back and tell my why what i'm saying is wrong(or right? that made so little sense i'm abit confused)


Ok. Here goes again. YOU CAN'T PROTECT BARGES IN LOWSEC. NO ESCORT IN THE WORLD CAN STOP THE BAD GUY FROM WARPING IN ON YOU AND POPPING YOUR MINING OP.

There. I typed that with shift by the way, no need to tell me "CAPS zomg!". I hope I'm clearer this time.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:37:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 13:39:00
"My 'I only mined once in high-sec' was just a witty remark concerning the 'Mr. Veldspar is all there is in highsec'. I'm not ashamed of it, it was just stupid to do since pretty much anything is more profitable than mining veld in a badger."

...k

"... what? Low-Sec = double reward for infinitely higher risk. Do the math. About c.) I could make all kinds of hilarious, sarcastic, self-ironic jokes. But for the sake of my own sanity I wont."

Nanu Nanu!(google if you aren't old enough)

"I can't even fly a frikkin barge."

who the **** said anything about a barge? and if i did mention one somewhere what does it have to do with anything?

"It can be done if you safespot as soon as someone enters local. And at exactly this point you start losing income, which in turn makes your low-sec mining op not valuable."

tell that to the guy above you and the other guy...

"Ok. Here goes again. YOU CAN'T PROTECT BARGES IN LOWSEC. NO ESCORT IN THE WORLD CAN STOP THE BAD GUY FROM WARPING IN ON YOU AND POPPING YOUR MINING OP.

There. I typed that with shift by the way, no need to tell me "CAPS zomg!". I hope I'm clearer this time."

Yes you finally posted something coherent..btw the other two guys mine and do well in low sec... if we can do it and you can't think you might be missing something?

Ishana
Minmatar
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:43:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Ishana on 04/12/2006 13:43:22
You know what, you are right. Ignore all these people who say it can't be done.

Low sec mining is completely worth it, please everyone come and mine in low sec.
I recommend the Mito constelation I hear there is really good ore there.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:45:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Ishana
Edited by: Ishana on 04/12/2006 13:43:22
You know what, you are right. Ignore all these people who say it can't be done.

Low sec mining is completely worth it, please everyone come and mine in low sec.
I recommend the Mito constelation I hear there is really good ore there.


*chuckle*
stop by the regions outlaying syndicate as well Twisted Evil

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:51:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Disco Flint on 04/12/2006 13:52:35
Originally by: Merchantigus
"It can be done if you safespot as soon as someone enters local. And at exactly this point you start losing income, which in turn makes your low-sec mining op not valuable."

tell that to the guy above you and the other guy...

"Ok. Here goes again. YOU CAN'T PROTECT BARGES IN LOWSEC. NO ESCORT IN THE WORLD CAN STOP THE BAD GUY FROM WARPING IN ON YOU AND POPPING YOUR MINING OP.

There. I typed that with shift by the way, no need to tell me "CAPS zomg!". I hope I'm clearer this time."

Yes you finally posted something coherent..btw the other two guys mine and do well in low sec... if we can do it and you can't think you might be missing something?



Yessem, the guy above me and perhaps the 'other guy', too were talking about big coordinated mining ops, with a lot of fire support available. Not your previously mentioned 5 miner, 2 escort frig mining op.

Originally by: Merchantigus

"I can't even fly a frikkin barge."

who the **** said anything about a barge? and if i did mention one somewhere what does it have to do with anything?

Oh, that's style, huh? Quoting someone out of context without showing why that person actually said that.

Anyway...
To clarify and correct myself once more: I am talking about the five to ten person mining op, presumably unexperienced players doing it for money (Not building anything, just selling the minerals). I am not talking about high skilled and veteran alliance players doing it for minerals needed for their own mods and ships.

Again I'm very sorry for any brain damage caused by my posts.

edited for speeling

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:57:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 14:21:53
"Oh, that's style, huh? Quoting someone out of context without showing why that person actually said that."

That wasn't out of context that's all you said. i coppied your words in their entirety. dont make post that make no sense what so ever and perhaps they wont be taken out of context? or maybe if they are it will somehow come off making more sense in the end...i think i just hurt myself..or was it you? who the **** knows anymore.

"To clarify and correct myself once more: I am talking about the five to ten person mining op, presumably unexperienced players doing it for money (Not building anything, just selling the minerals). I am not talking about high skilled and veteran alliance players doing it for minerals needed for their own mods and ships."

so are the rest of us. mr acsn up there said he had done both. the other guy does it alone.
and i did both the first time i played and hauled for both types(told you my skills were all over the place)

DarkFenix
Caldari
Lords 0f Ruin
Posted - 2006.12.04 14:40:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
"Merch you really are clueless aren't you. You spout a load of ill-informed c**p about low sec mining. Pretty much everyone else in this thread has pointed out that you're wrong. Does it not occur to you that these people probably know better than you?"

except for the few people that are bright enough to know and do exactly what i'm talking about....

"Low sec mining isn't worth the risk, unless you can find yourself some kind of backwater system in the middle of nowhere, which means you spend ages hauling the damned stuff. In my experience, just mine empire or 0.0, nothing else is worth it."

1 .0 makes more money no ****
2 low sec can either make more or less than high sec..thus it's in the middle wow imagine that.


Ok since your mental capacity is insufficient to think along anything but the rigid lines you've laid, I'll go right back to your original post.

You blather on in your original post about how easy it is to scare off low sec pirates. News flash, it isn't. If a bunch of pirates want to destroy your mining op, they're going to do it no matter what measures you put in place to stop them. On pvp ops I happily step into a t1 cruiser with the utter certainty I'm coming back to empire via my clone. I'll gladly warp into a large mining op with a heavy escort and make a suicide run on a couple of barges. That is precisely why low sec mining isn't any good, and the reason you're not going to scare off pirates with a few puny escort ships. If you have enough escort ships to sufficiently protect your op, you're making extremely inefficient use of time and would be better off mining veldspar in a 1.0.

The bottom line is mining ops are easy meat for pirates whatever you do. There is no way to stop them without compromising your profitability.

The only way to scare them off? Be a pvp corp. Wardec them. Lots of skill points they may have, but they're not the brightest or most skillful bunch, and they don't like it when real pvpers come after them. They probably get soft from all the veldspar fumes from the miners they pop.

Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.12.04 15:10:00 - [77]
 

I'll agree that it is totally possible to mine in low-sec safely if you have 5-7 ships flying cover and are well organized. That being said, if you've got that all set up, you might as well have everyone mine in high-sec, or keep the same ratio of escorts to miners and mine in 0.0. That's really the problem, when you're good enough for low-sec, you're good enough for 0.0.

Oh, and not all 0.0 is shut off by alliances.

Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
Posted - 2006.12.04 15:10:00 - [78]
 

I got it! No really your love this one! Tommorrow during down time. Every player logged out in Jita is transported 45 jumps from Jita, in a random direction. Then those that survive the return to jita will know how unsafe staying there 24-7 really is!!

Would be a hoot!!
Too bad its December and not April, heh?



Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:09:00 - [79]
 

Where do you guys mine?

I'll be happy to bring 2 friends and show you wrong. This is how it goes:

* Covert Ops alt scouts out operation. Makes perfect warp-in.
* Pirate ships jump in and are in warp to operation before they even have the system loaded (using portrait trick).
* Mining operation goes 'omfg help pirates run run".
* Pirates enter belt, lock barge, kill it and catch hauler who was in warp when all of this happens as well. Pirates loot strip miners and expanders and run out while being jammed (if that) by escort ships. Otherwise they kill escort ships.
* Pirates leave system. Covert Ops stays behind.
* 30 minutes later, mining operation resumes in a different belt. Covert Ops scouts out operation.

Rinse and repeat.

I used to be in a bear corp and I actually did mine (or actually, protect) lowsec mining ops. What we would do is find a system with only two gates and sit on the gates to watch incoming traffic instead of relying on local. In my 8-heavy drone Platerax I felt comfortable enough to engage a Battleship with the sentries on my side. It was craptacular isk/hour cos we ended up having to warp off all the time because some tards in Scorpions would ruin our day. Of course this was all before hedbergite gave Zydrine, but this was also in the most quiet part of Eve-Space when we had 10k PCU on busy sundays.

Short version: anyone claiming mining in lowsec is profitable is a liar. Sure, it's fun for the challenge but it's FAR from profitable.

I a pirate. Mine in a system less than 5 jumps away from me and you're guaranteed the loss of a few ships and cancellation of your operation. Well, unless you have a carrier run escort duty in which case you'll STILL lose the barge and I'll just lose whatever insurable t1 cruiser I was killing your barge with.

Dra0cht
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:26:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Ishana


it's not 0.0 that is broken actually it's more the whole pos/sov/capital thing that is no were near balanced atm. It's boring as hell and after months of pos warfare it's anything but fun. When a game starts feeling like a job, you should realy evaluate what you're doing, and that's what allot of us did.




Yup, most definately, 100% QFT.
For me 1 word sums up 0.0

BORING

Same old same old, todo PvP there is all about gang up and numbers, no real skill in it at all any more, just get the numbers, and gank.

And then there's the whole holding territory thing, my gawd, all about POS numbers, and eventually it gets to the point where its like a bloomin job, I mean what is that all about?

Nope, low sec is where lots of ex-o.o dwellers are living, where you can actually 'play' a game, and not have to obcess about EVE like its a part or even full-time profession.

DefJam101
Gallente
Monolithic.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:11:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:02:19
low sec.
The reason there are so many pirates is because there is so much easy prey. fight back and the noobs will find something else to do if the easy money dries up.
1. dont go out mining alone. 2 noobs in frigs are enough to run off/escape most pirates
2. dont run around ratting with only one type of resist/dmg type.
There are so many ways to foil a pirate in low sec yet none of them are done. then you all come on the forums and whine about it. it's amazing.
Most of the pirates in low sec were gate camping noobs now most of the pirates in low sec have either given up or starting hunting people in missions but they are still noobs with a jammer. sure there may be a few big fish out there but i spend alot of time in low sec and i've only run into 1 big ship so far.

"if you don't wanna to get ****ed on move cha **** out tha way!" simple as that

to the people whining about it being empty: yep. you noobed all the fish to death. sure it's their own fault but our food supply has been hunted to non existance. after you get your feet on the ground move to .0 and stop being a *****.

The reason jita is so clogged is because it's the only place to get things.
you think i and many others enjoy running to jita all the time? you dont think we'd much rather pay more to get it all in one spot and not have to jump halfway across the universe? ffs spread it out youselves. one man in a frieghter could not only make a large fortune but also make a large dint in the jita problem. and that's just one person.
at the very least i have to make 8 jumps just to get a ship then i have to make 15 more running around gathering stuff up. if it was all in one place a few jumps away do you not think people would be willing to pay more for it? add that into how cheap things are in jita and you just got yourself a fortune.

Eve is all about the players. eve is what YOU not ccp makes of it. whinning and whinning for artificial controls to counter stupidity is not the way to do it. it's your sandbox make a footprint and change it yourself.
What makes eve eve is this freedom and the more people whine it out of existance the less of a soul it has.
If there is a counter no adjustment is needed. there are plenty of very simple counters. it's not ccps fault you wont do them.

Eve is one of the few places left on this earth where the laws of nature apply to humans. if whinners somehow destroy that be... well there aren't words.

Eve is a sandbox full of ants. you guys are like "wHAaaa the cookies is all in one place i do likes it!". sooo move the damn cookies yourself? when even ants are outsmarting you it's never a good sign


Your an idiot.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:49:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 17:54:39
Life fuel boosters selling for 20k near jita selling for 300k on the fringes

Ogre I selling for 39k in jita area selling for 70k on the frignes.

just two examples i gabbed while i was passing through.

20k--->300k
If you dont see the money in this you just ended up below the sub ant people.

there is a huge void out here waiting to be filled and if people started to fill it alot of pressure would come off of jita.

I'm just assuming the name calling was on behalf of the jita part. if it was on behalf of the low sec part read the thread and see where it went.

Also i just went to forge and back without even seeing a pirate. i could of flown through the entrance with 30 pod kills but i looked at something called "the map" and simply went around it.
It's that simple..

since so many of you think i'm a total "idiot" for noticing this so be it. i've sold off all i had to start to profit off of it. the more "wonderfull people" that don't get it the better for me now and judging from the responces buisness should be good for a while.

enjoy high sec :)

DarkFenix
Caldari
Lords 0f Ruin
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:55:00 - [83]
 

It's simple competition, the merchants all compete in Jita and that drives prices down, similarly Jita is in competition with the fringe worlds for customers, and beats them all hands down. Merchants know dead cert that they can sell their stuff in Jita, and people pay a lot of money for reliability and convenience.

Dolly Parton
Amarr
5punkorp
Betrayal Under Mayhem
Posted - 2006.12.04 17:56:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:02:19
low sec.
The reason there are so many pirates is because there is so much easy prey. fight back and the noobs will find something else to do if the easy money dries up.
1. dont go out mining alone. 2 noobs in frigs are enough to run off/escape most pirates
2. dont run around ratting with only one type of resist/dmg type.
There are so many ways to foil a pirate in low sec yet none of them are done. then you all come on the forums and whine about it. it's amazing.
Most of the pirates in low sec were gate camping noobs now most of the pirates in low sec have either given up or starting hunting people in missions but they are still noobs with a jammer. sure there may be a few big fish out there but i spend alot of time in low sec and i've only run into 1 big ship so far.

"if you don't wanna to get ****ed on move cha **** out tha way!" simple as that

to the people whining about it being empty: yep. you noobed all the fish to death. sure it's their own fault but our food supply has been hunted to non existance. after you get your feet on the ground move to .0 and stop being a *****.

The reason jita is so clogged is because it's the only place to get things.
you think i and many others enjoy running to jita all the time? you dont think we'd much rather pay more to get it all in one spot and not have to jump halfway across the universe? ffs spread it out youselves. one man in a frieghter could not only make a large fortune but also make a large dint in the jita problem. and that's just one person.
at the very least i have to make 8 jumps just to get a ship then i have to make 15 more running around gathering stuff up. if it was all in one place a few jumps away do you not think people would be willing to pay more for it? add that into how cheap things are in jita and you just got yourself a fortune.

Eve is all about the players. eve is what YOU not ccp makes of it. whinning and whinning for artificial controls to counter stupidity is not the way to do it. it's your sandbox make a footprint and change it yourself.
What makes eve eve is this freedom and the more people whine it out of existance the less of a soul it has.
If there is a counter no adjustment is needed. there are plenty of very simple counters. it's not ccps fault you wont do them.

Eve is one of the few places left on this earth where the laws of nature apply to humans. if whinners somehow destroy that be... well there aren't words.

Eve is a sandbox full of ants. you guys are like "wHAaaa the cookies is all in one place i do likes it!". sooo move the damn cookies yourself? when even ants are outsmarting you it's never a good sign


ANYONE STARTING A THREAD, PRO OR CON AND CAN'T SHOW WHO THEIR MAIN CHARACTER IS DOES NOT DESERVE THE TIME TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.

Now go get a life or go play wow cause your ruining my forum thread reading with your senseless whining aka *****ing.

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.12.04 18:58:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 04/12/2006 18:58:14
Originally by: DarkFenix
It's simple competition, the merchants all compete in Jita and that drives prices down, similarly Jita is in competition with the fringe worlds for customers, and beats them all hands down. Merchants know dead cert that they can sell their stuff in Jita, and people pay a lot of money for reliability and convenience.



I love people that don't believe you can sell anywhere but Jita. Please keep going to jita to sell things. I'll continue to buy them relatively cheaply and selling them on the fringes at a nearly 100% markup. I don't do it often but it can be done. You have to leave things listed longer than you do in jita but you can make a much higher profit margin off it. I funded my first T2 fitted raven doing that.

Buy low, sell high... lovin' it.

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.12.04 19:02:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 04/12/2006 19:05:53
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Where do you guys mine?

I'll be happy to bring 2 friends and show you wrong. This is how it goes:

* Covert Ops alt scouts out operation. Makes perfect warp-in.
* Pirate ships jump in and are in warp to operation before they even have the system loaded (using portrait trick).
* Mining operation goes 'omfg help pirates run run".
* Pirates enter belt, lock barge, kill it and catch hauler who was in warp when all of this happens as well. Pirates loot strip miners and expanders and run out while being jammed (if that) by escort ships. Otherwise they kill escort ships.
* Pirates leave system. Covert Ops stays behind.
* 30 minutes later, mining operation resumes in a different belt. Covert Ops scouts out operation.

Rinse and repeat.

I used to be in a bear corp and I actually did mine (or actually, protect) lowsec mining ops. What we would do is find a system with only two gates and sit on the gates to watch incoming traffic instead of relying on local. In my 8-heavy drone Platerax I felt comfortable enough to engage a Battleship with the sentries on my side. It was craptacular isk/hour cos we ended up having to warp off all the time because some tards in Scorpions would ruin our day. Of course this was all before hedbergite gave Zydrine, but this was also in the most quiet part of Eve-Space when we had 10k PCU on busy sundays.

Short version: anyone claiming mining in lowsec is profitable is a liar. Sure, it's fun for the challenge but it's FAR from profitable.

I a pirate. Mine in a system less than 5 jumps away from me and you're guaranteed the loss of a few ships and cancellation of your operation. Well, unless you have a carrier run escort duty in which case you'll STILL lose the barge and I'll just lose whatever insurable t1 cruiser I was killing your barge with.


With the current condition of ECM this might be possible now. Previously any decent EWAR pilot would have those ships jammed the second they came out of warp. You do know that you can be seen warping in approximately 200km before you reach the group? When I flew cap in my blackbird I always watched overview and immediately selected anyone I saw warping in... then started spamming lock (with appropriate racial jammer active). We always had 2-3 blackbirds (or other EWAR ships) flying cover. And no, we didn't lose anything by doing that because they were pilots that wouldn't have been mining anyway. We got our money from the loot we got from popping rats that spawned in the area.

Haven't tried it since they kicked ECM in the teeth though. Its probably a lot harder to lock folks down now. I've temporarily given up flying EWAR ships till ECM gets some kind of attention. EWAR specific ships (other than the rook) are barely better than pre-revelations standard ships were, even if you have full ECM mods in the lows and ECM mods in the rigs.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.04 22:24:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Dolly Parton


ANYONE STARTING A THREAD, PRO OR CON AND CAN'T SHOW WHO THEIR MAIN CHARACTER IS DOES NOT DESERVE THE TIME TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.



You do realize that there are entire threads of player who have been here more than a year and their mains still don't show their portraits? Not that the OP's arguements are valid or I don't agree with you....

To the OP:
I would like to know where I can find these nice safe systems to mine in where 2 frigates can protect your mining ops. It obviously isn't in our area of space. Every time I go into lowsec I have to run gate camps and station camps, snipers, etc. Its now just second nature to use my "Free once every 4 hour" decline mission skill.

We decided to try some lowsec mining. Small corp, mostly newer players. Most have been in game less than 6 months, with some fresh out of academy. Over one weekend and using our more experienced and equiped players we tried mining.

Result? We lost no miners. We lost no haulers. We DID lose 2 Ravyns, 3 cruisers and a BC. We were getting attacked by everything up to and including 2 BSs at a time. Not very profitable, we moved back to high sec and are happily providing minerals for those who need them.

It doesn't matter if the reward 2x higher in lowsec if the risk is 100x higher.

Plutoinum
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:11:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/12/2006 23:15:41
There are two strategies to stay alive:
1) be stronger than your opponent
2) be able to avoid an engagement

If you don't know your opponent(s) and are totally unsure, if you might be strong enough to deal with an attack or not, but want to stay alive, then you choose strategy two of course.

Most carebears get those two things right. They aren't stupid and mine with a barge in a crowded low sec. system. They rather stay in high sec.

Most low sec and 0.0 runners solve it differently. They team-up ( strategy 1 ) or choose quiet systems and proper intel as in ( strategy 2) or a combination of both.

It's a no-brainer and explains, why people play, how they play. I'd say those, who don't follow strategy one or two are the ones, who die a lot. Wink

/edit ok, missed the alternative 3) being able to escape in an engagement, if the odds are against you. Typical example the rmr-stabbabond. Wink

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:47:00 - [89]
 

The problem with 0.0 is that the established player corps are embedded and the new player corps aren't strong enough to break in. I'm not even going to mention alliances here.

Whole sectors of 0.0 lay bare because no new corps can get (in)to them.

Defense is too easy and attack too costly, especially if you had time to build up your defenses (POS spaming anyone?). With the introduction of more 'infrastructure', I believe this will only get worse in the future. So far, the only reason I've seen for an established corps to go belly-up is because they lose faith (got bored?).

It's not a risk-reward problem, reward in low sec/0.0 is skewed more than enough as it is. Rewarding 0.0 even more will not attract more people into it, it will just strengthen the base of the people already there. This is especially true with the localised and static availability of highly profitable resources (yeah, I'm talking about farming complexes etc.).

It is the problem that, without consent, or at least help from an 'uncle', it is not feasible to fight your way into 0.0. Never mind solo-ing it in 0.0, even dedicated small groups are forced into large corps and alliances. The stagnation and empire hugging are simply a result of this.

If CCP makes 0.0 doable/profitable for solo/small gang/small corps-affairs, then the real (re)population of 0.0 will begin. Until that time, 0.0 will remain the sandbox for the few (of whatever description you would like to give them). It should be clear by now that, if it is a question of join it or not go there at all, the majority of players are not interested in joining (hence the overcrowded empire space). For the somewhat dense out there: corps are not attractive enough as they are now (several reasons for this).

From the above, a remedie can be derived. I'll leave this as an exercise for the reader. Frankly, based on previous experience, I don't expect any.

All the whining and noob-calling (or ant-calling, of all things) of the OP; I couldn't care less about.


Pages: 1 2 [3]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only