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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:34:00 - [31]
 

As a former pirate, I'll point out that the barges are never safe. They are the easiest target, very quick to take down and drop great loot. I've attacked escorted mining ops solo in a crappy T1 fitted Stabber and gotten out alive after popping the barges. If the escort is smaller than a cruiser, they would just be popped too. Of course, ECM, damps, etc can change that, but then you bring some buddies.

Also, the reason that people won't "spread out" is because it pays to clump up. Jita is popular because despite the lag and the overcrowding, you can still buy everything you need in one stop. Or, you can sell your goods. I go to Jita if I need to sell something myself.

Insulting people isn't going to get them to like you. And, your suggestions on how to guard against pirates suggest you've never pirated or been attacked by a competent force. Sure, the 3 day old characters in T1 frigs can be warded off by a couple of guys in pretty much anything. They're not the problem, they could've been killed by drones from two barges, tbh. It's the guys who show up in HACs or AFs, who know what they're doing, who scout, and who have good skills. Barges are too fragile to mine in, and it's simply not profitable to mine in low-sec because of how vulnerable you are.

Finally, I'd like to please ask that you put some visual separation between the lines you quote and your responses. It hurts my eyes to try to read your posts.

Xaildaine
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:36:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:31:55
@ disco flint
i'm not saying it's totally full proof
I'm not saying it works all the time
i'm saying it can be done rather cheaply and by the end of the day you could be wealthy. i'm also saying there is risk vs this reward and you could just as easily leave down a few ships or be stuck in the station for a bit..
Many people have whinned and whinned saying it can't be done. i'm saying it can but there are risk. if you can't handle that enjoy your veldspare.

Just like mr veldspare up there it's risk vs reward. i'm not saying any of this is without risk. i'm saying for that risk there is very great reward waiting.
it's something each person must weigh but it can be done is all i'm trying to get across and the two of you have admitted as much.
Yes there is great risk. Yes there is great reward. and that's the whole point. it can be done and if the risk doesn't show up and pod you the reward is incredible.

@wolf

Highsec: Kernite/Jaspet and above @ 4mil an hour
Lowsec: Hegberdite/Hemorphite and above @ 8mil an hour
....yah twice the reward...if you don't think that's worth some risk enjoy your veldspar
thanks for doing that math for me . i knew there was alot more to be made but i didn't know it was double.


thats raw numbers and has nothing to do with actual money made.

What the use of mining somthing that will yeild 8 mill per hr if you can only mine it for 30 mins in that hr then loose you barge in the next?

Even you have to realize that the risk taken mining in lowsec is WAY more than x2 that of highsec.

have you even flown a covetor?

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:40:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:33:27
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:31:55
@ disco flint
i'm not saying it's totally full proof
I'm not saying it works all the time
i'm saying it can be done rather cheaply and by the end of the day you could be wealthy. i'm also saying there is risk vs this reward and you could just as easily leave down a few ships or be stuck in the station for a bit..
Many people have whinned and whinned saying it can't be done. i'm saying it can but there are risk. if you can't handle that enjoy your veldspare.

Just like mr veldspare up there it's risk vs reward. i'm not saying any of this is without risk. i'm saying for that risk there is very great reward waiting.
it's something each person must weigh but it can be done is all i'm trying to get across and the two of you have admitted as much.
Yes there is great risk. Yes there is great reward. and that's the whole point. it can be done and if the risk doesn't show up and pod you the reward is incredible.

@wolf

Highsec: Kernite/Jaspet and above @ 4mil an hour
Lowsec: Hegberdite/Hemorphite and above @ 8mil an hour
....yah twice the reward...if you don't think that's worth some risk enjoy your veldspar
thanks for doing that math for me . i knew there was alot more to be made but i didn't know it was double.

"Merch, you really need to learn to type.. or learn english."
When still up at 6 am you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm yess



Wolf? who the **** is wolf? reading ftw?
I did the calculations for you... you, however, appears to have a disability we like to call "selective reading". Its a condition where when you look at a post, lets say, your post, and quote you as saying:

"I'm... stuck... in... the... veldspar."

And if you already admit you cant type at 6AM, maybe you shouldnt be trolling the forums... Its also 6AM here, and i dont think i'm having such atrocious typing issues... seriously, go back to school and learn some more english. It'll help in places other than EVE.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:42:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:47:51
@pirate dude
Yes there is a risk that they run into someone that knows what he's doing. this is to balance out the reward of more money to be made. not every "pirate" knows what he's doing and the ones that do make up a very small number. also

When still up at 6 am you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm yess

i think that's going to be my quote from now on.

@wolf again(or whatever the **** your name is)

"thats raw numbers and has nothing to do with actual money made."

except that's the actual money to be made if things go well.

"What the use of mining somthing that will yeild 8 mill per hr if you can only mine it for 30 mins in that hr then loose you barge in the next?"

Whats the point of only making 4 mill per hour when you could take some risk and make double that?

Some people take risk for the money, some people take risk for the excitement, some people mine veldspar for their natural lives

"And if you already admit you cant type at 6AM, maybe you shouldnt be trolling the forums..."

this isn't a troll this is my opinion if i was trying to troll i would of done a much better job. what i have done is stated my opinion that happens to be the minority and invited the internet to come prove me wrong.

"Its also 6AM here, and i dont think i'm having such atrocious typing issues... seriously, go back to school and learn some more english. It'll help in places other than EVE."

wow did you think that up all by yourself?
Also you aren't "having a discussion" with 4 people at once.

Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:46:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:43:13
@pirate dude
Yes there is a risk that they run into someone that knows what he's doing. this is to balance out the reward of more money to be made. not every "pirate" knows what he's doing and the ones that do make up a very small number. also

When still up at 6 am you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm yess

i think that's going to be my quote from now on.



Yeah, see, that's the problem... It DOESN'T balance out the risk. At the moment, low-sec is not profitable. Not unles you've got protection. If you want people in low-sec that aren't there to PVP, give them a reason to be there. Just telling them "oh, you can bring some newbs in frigs to guard you" is not a solution to the problem, and anyone who's smart enough to be doing production will quite easily figure out that it's not worth their time. So, lots of people just mine in high sec.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:51:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:54:58
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:53:00
"Yeah, see, that's the problem... It DOESN'T balance out the risk. At the moment, low-sec is not profitable. Not unles you've got protection. If you want people in low-sec that aren't there to PVP, give them a reason to be there. Just telling them "oh, you can bring some newbs in frigs to guard you" is not a solution to the problem, and anyone who's smart enough to be doing production will quite easily figure out that it's not worth their time. So, lots of people just mine in high sec."

Funny from what's been posted it can be twice as profitable. if you are doing production you arent just a miner anymore and therefore fit in with the jita guys i bowed to earlier.

it can be done there is alot of money to be made just need light protection there is risk there is a crapload of reward waiting if you are willing to take that risk and it pays off. good day sir.

The problem is
a. morons who go out there as easy prey and spawn more noob pirates. solo miners mission runners without guns or armor ect ect. dumb people with expensive stuff breed pirates
b. people who don't want to take risk. this is fine. if you enjoy veldspar and risk isn't your thing so be it but the money is out there you just have to go and get it.

There are some real pirates.
they will wtfpnwn you in the face ect ect.
they are the minority.
Ignorance breeds pirates which make low sec less secure which raises the risk and not the reward but there wouldn't be so many goddamn pirates if people went out better prepared.

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:54:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:43:13
@pirate dude
Yes there is a risk that they run into someone that knows what he's doing. this is to balance out the reward of more money to be made. not every "pirate" knows what he's doing and the ones that do make up a very small number. also

When still up at 6 am you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm yess

i think that's going to be my quote from now on.

@wolf again(or whatever the **** your name is)

"thats raw numbers and has nothing to do with actual money made."

except that's the actual money to be made if things go well.

What the use of mining somthing that will yeild 8 mill per hr if you can only mine it for 30 mins in that hr then loose you barge in the next?

Whats the point of only making 4 mill per hour when you could take some risk and make double that?

Some people take risk for the money, some people take risk for the excitement, some people mine veldspar for their natural lives


Wow! i already pointed out to you that you messed up my name... and you do it again! that's AWSOME! You, truely can read.

Aaaand, let me answer the questions you posed for you! Why mine @ 4 mil an hour? because you get to keep 4 mil! Why not mine @ 8 mil and hour and lose your ship in the next 30 minutes? because you've made 4 mil in that 30 minutes, and you just lost 28 mil in ships and fittings! WOAH! A grand total of 24 mil lost! I LOVE THAT! :D

Here, how about a real life example for you? Would you: Get paid $40 for... lets say, working for an hour.
OR
Getting paid $80 for working an hour, BUT with the additional condition that there's a... lets say 50% chance every hour that you'll be charged $280.

Sure, if you take the chance, you can come out ahead and make more money, but the probability of that happening is... well... quite low.

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:55:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:53:00
"Yeah, see, that's the problem... It DOESN'T balance out the risk. At the moment, low-sec is not profitable. Not unles you've got protection. If you want people in low-sec that aren't there to PVP, give them a reason to be there. Just telling them "oh, you can bring some newbs in frigs to guard you" is not a solution to the problem, and anyone who's smart enough to be doing production will quite easily figure out that it's not worth their time. So, lots of people just mine in high sec."

Funny from what's been posted it can be twice as profitable. if you are doing production you arent just a miner anymore and therefore fit in with the jita guys i bowed to earlier.

it can be done there is alot of money to be made just need light protection there is risk there is a crapload of reward waiting if you are willing to take that risk and it pays off. good day sir.

The problem is
a. morons who go out there as easy prey and spawn more noob pirates. solo miners mission runners without guns or armor ect ect. dumb people with expensive stuff breed pirates
b. people who don't want to take risk. this is fine. if you enjoy veldspar and risk isn't your thing so be it but the money is out there you just have to go and get it.


Where has anyone EVER mentioned mining veld?
Just because veld is in empire doesnt mean anything. Hell, veld is in 0.0 too... maybe all those 0.0 guys are only mining veld! :D

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:00:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:02:35
"Aaaand, let me answer the questions you posed for you! Why mine @ 4 mil an hour? because you get to keep 4 mil! Why not mine @ 8 mil and hour and lose your ship in the next 30 minutes? because you've made 4 mil in that 30 minutes, and you just lost 28 mil in ships and fittings! WOAH! A grand total of 24 mil lost! I LOVE THAT! :D

Here, how about a real life example for you? Would you: Get paid $40 for... lets say, working for an hour.
OR
Getting paid $80 for working an hour, BUT with the additional condition that there's a... lets say 50% chance every hour that you'll be charged $280.

Sure, if you take the chance, you can come out ahead and make more money, but the probability of that happening is... well... quite low."

more like private security forces in iraq. learn to analogy ktnx.
the probability of them getting blown to hell is very high. the reward is around twice the money they would make doing something else.
they take the risk
some of them get blown to hell
some of them go home with a fat sack of gold

and your analogy in this context they would have a 50% chance to randomly explode every hour. the time between chances to explode aren't as often but it's the exact same thing and people still do it.

Risk is not for everyone
risk is obviously not for you
but the money is out there despite what you may tell yourself :)

op = ishana
"If you could mine continuasly then you're right low sec would be better. But you would be docked for hours on end or be shot to bits, eitehr way he's right mining veldspar in high sec is better."

now who can't read?

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:01:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Loads of useless bits.


You have no experience pirating or defending against pirates.
You have no experience in LowSec.
You have no experience about mining in LowSec.
Your knowledge about how hubs develop themselves is none-existant.
Your math is weak.
Your logic is even weaker.
You got a very strong selective-reading and ignoring-pointers skill.

You'd probably make a fantastic journalist, lawyer or politician.


For avoiding the '@wolf' issue, you could just open the thread in another browser window. Adressing people with a wrong name multiple times doesn't help your credibility.

(I don't care for any language skills as long as I can read and understand what is being posted. English isn't my first language. Attacking people for grammer or typos doesn't get a discussion to any end without a lock from a mod.)

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:04:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus

"Aaaand, let me answer the questions you posed for you! Why mine @ 4 mil an hour? because you get to keep 4 mil! Why not mine @ 8 mil and hour and lose your ship in the next 30 minutes? because you've made 4 mil in that 30 minutes, and you just lost 28 mil in ships and fittings! WOAH! A grand total of 24 mil lost! I LOVE THAT! :D

Here, how about a real life example for you? Would you: Get paid $40 for... lets say, working for an hour.
OR
Getting paid $80 for working an hour, BUT with the additional condition that there's a... lets say 50% chance every hour that you'll be charged $280.

Sure, if you take the chance, you can come out ahead and make more money, but the probability of that happening is... well... quite low."

more like private security forces in iraq. learn to analogy ktnx.
the probability of them getting blown to hell is very high. the reward is around twice the money they would make doing something else.
they take the risk
some of them get blown to hell
some of them go home with a fat sack of gold

and your analogy in this context they would have a 50% chance to randomly explode every hour. the time between chances to explode aren't as often but it's the exact same thing and people still do it.

Risk is not for everyone
risk is obviously not for you
but the money is out there despite what you may tell yourself :)


Haha ok, lets use more concrete examples. Iraq private security forces... sure, high rewards.
Total US troops in iraq... lets say, 100,000.
Total US troop death... lets say 5000.
Chance for death: 5%

If the chance is only 5%, sure its worth it.

Now, tell me that low sec mining is...
O hell... go mine in low sec yourself (with an alt maybe?)... organize it however you like... and tell me again that there's only 5% chance of getting jumped by pirates?

Plib
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:04:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Plib on 04/12/2006 12:06:12
Edited by: Plib on 04/12/2006 12:05:02
Originally by: Merchantigus

The reason there are so many pirates is because there is so much easy prey. fight back and the noobs will find something else to do if the easy money dries up.
I've been playing for nearly three years and I've only ever met one pirate. He tried to ransom a can of Kernite and I told him to go suck on it. He blew it up. I waited for him to leave. He never came back. The moral here is to mine where it's quiet instead of next door to Jita.

Quote:
1. dont go out mining alone. 2 noobs in frigs are enough to run off/escape most pirates
What are you trying to say here? I agree that a competent frig pilot should be able to run from a pirate but a competent frig pilot can't mine enough to make it worthwhile mining. Tell me how a barge can easily escape a pirate.

Quote:
2. dont run around ratting with only one type of resist/dmg type.
There are so many ways to foil a pirate in low sec yet none of them are done. then you all come on the forums and whine about it. it's amazing.
Sort of good advice.

Quote:
Most of the pirates in low sec were gate camping noobs now most of the pirates in low sec have either given up or starting hunting people in missions but they are still noobs with a jammer. sure there may be a few big fish out there but i spend alot of time in low sec and i've only run into 1 big ship so far.
I have no experience of pirating so I can't comment.

Quote:
The reason jita is so clogged is because it's the only place to get things.
Completely untrue.

Quote:
<pointless rant>
..and the horse you rode in on.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:08:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:11:42
It's your math

"Sell 10 ships at 200k profit each in LowSec. Lose 2 ships to pirates in average.
Sell 40 ships at 80k profit each in HiSec. Pay 10% more for your minerals."

"You have no experience pirating or defending against pirates."

you're a self proclaimed trade runner i'm sure you're an expert

"You have no experience in LowSec."
Sure hoss

"You have no experience about mining in LowSec."
Sure hoss

"Your knowledge about how hubs develop themselves is none-existant."

it would take far to many words to even bother

"Your logic is even weaker."

you just made fun of your own math i wouldn't be talking

"You got a very strong selective-reading and ignoring-pointers skill."

I break the post up just like i did this one and reply to it. your words are still the exact same i just cut them into idea sized chunks to reply to them to make it nice and simple for everyone.

Haha ok, lets use more concrete examples. Iraq private security forces... sure, high rewards.
Total US troops in iraq... lets say, 100,000.
Total US troop death... lets say 5000.
Chance for death: 5%

If the chance is only 5%, sure its worth it.

nice invinted numbers ...
there are no goddamn us troops in space...
from what i've read/seen most of them die..out of a 10 man security corp 2 were left when they were forced to shut down due to lack of mercs. my numbers come from something where did you find yours?

If for the the risk is to high for the reward fine. but there is high reward to go with that risk no matter what else you blather on about.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:17:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:23:45
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:18:06
"I've been playing for nearly three years and I've only ever met one pirate. He tried to ransom a can of Kernite and I told him to go suck on it. He blew it up. I waited for him to leave. He never came back. The moral here is to mine where it's quiet instead of next door to Jita."

I never see many at all and i've only seen 1 real pirate with a decent ship. there are quiet places out there indeed but lets take jita for example. out of that high pirate population area a good majority of them aren't the best around. the reason for half of the op is people whinning about there being to many pirates in low sec and therefore the reward isn't high enough to be worth it. i dont personally agree but whatever.
Yes there is "stuff" but you have to go to high sec hubs to get it and once there hop around for hours picking it all up.

"What are you trying to say here? I agree that a competent frig pilot should be able to run from a pirate but a competent frig pilot can't mine enough to make it worthwhile mining. Tell me how a barge can easily escape a pirate."

I'm saying bring the frig pilot with you so he can jam said pirate while the barge warps off?

i'm obviously not saying you can find nothing at all outside of jita. i'm saying except for a few hubs many jumps from .0 and low sec there isn't much out there. and people are willing to pay higher prices to save them the trouble.

I'm saying
1. there is alot of reward wating for you but you have to take some risk
2. it can and is done
3. if you aren't wise and chose to take this risk where pirates are known to be many bring a bit of protection(more or less depnding on how much risk you are willing to take)

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:18:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:10:54
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:08:59
It's your math

"Sell 10 ships at 200k profit each in LowSec. Lose 2 ships to pirates in average.
Sell 40 ships at 80k profit each in HiSec. Pay 10% more for your minerals."

"You have no experience pirating or defending against pirates."

you're a self proclaimed trade runner i'm sure you're an expert

"You have no experience in LowSec."
Sure hoss

"You have no experience about mining in LowSec."
Sure hoss

"Your knowledge about how hubs develop themselves is none-existant."

it would take far to many words to even bother

"Your logic is even weaker."

you just made fun of your own math i wouldn't be talking

"You got a very strong selective-reading and ignoring-pointers skill."

I break the post up just like i did this one and reply to it. your words are still the exact same i just cut them into idea sized chunks to reply to them to make it nice and simple for everyone.

Haha ok, lets use more concrete examples. Iraq private security forces... sure, high rewards.
Total US troops in iraq... lets say, 100,000.
Total US troop death... lets say 5000.
Chance for death: 5%

If the chance is only 5%, sure its worth it.

nice invinted numbers ...
there are no goddamn us troops in space...
from what i've read/seen most of them die..out of a 10 man security corp 2 were left when they were forced to shut down due to lack of mercs. my numbers come from something where did you find yours?



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat.htm : 150,000 US troops in iraq

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/
almost 3000 US troop death in iraq.

percent chance: 2%

Now where did you get YOUR numbers? and besides, it was you who brought up the troops topic in the first place. I just gave an vague example.

Originally by: Merchantigus

more like private security forces in iraq. learn to analogy ktnx.
the probability of them getting blown to hell is very high. the reward is around twice the money they would make doing something else.
they take the risk
some of them get blown to hell
some of them go home with a fat sack of gold



see?

And, if we use the numbers you provided (sans source)... 2/10 come home alive... i think 8/10 ppl just got screwed on the deal... and kinda reflects current low sec pretty well.. 8/10 ppl get killed by pirates and never come back, while 2/10 stay in low sec... and you're still wondering why there are not more ppl in low sec?

Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:25:00 - [46]
 

In short: 90% of all pirates are nubs with a jammer, lowsec is uber for mining rewards and especially missions are good if you use your Gist Raven.

I know a good agent in Otsasai and some very very nice belts in Nalvula. Everyone should come there.

Btw, if you're so experienced: where's your portrait?


Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:31:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:32:36
@roxix

.....there are no us troops in low sec.
not as many people in low sec want to kill you.
there are no numbers for this...
your bickering over an analogy...
If you must continue to bicker
subtract the us troops leaving just the mercs
subtract from the amount of people that want to kill you.
come up with some nice sounding number and try to fight with me over it?

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:31:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
In short: 90% of all pirates are nubs with a jammer, lowsec is uber for mining rewards and especially missions are good if you use your Gist Raven.

I know a good agent in Otsasai and some very very nice belts in Nalvula. Everyone should come there.

Btw, if you're so experienced: where's your portrait?




Well summarized! I think i'm done here :)

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:35:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:35:52
"In short: 90% of all pirates are nubs with a jammer, lowsec is uber for mining rewards and especially missions are good if you use your Gist Raven."

sure money+risk sounds about right.

I know a good agent in Otsasai and some very very nice belts in Nalvula. Everyone should come there.
Not for long :p

Btw, if you're so experienced: where's your portrait?

I deleted my main because his skills were all over the place and running armor tanks while looking at the shield skills going to waste or using drones and blasters while looking at all the missles kills going to waste was driving me mad. Then i'd notice how far along i could of been had i focused and not split my sp between everything that could be done and couldn't take it anymore.
He was spread out to much and since kali i just nuked him and made a more focused alt.

d026
temp holding
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:36:00 - [50]
 

the pirates i encountered usualy use hacs, recons and bss. you wont stand a chance if you only have 2 frigs at hand:) better also bring 1-2 hacs some bss and tII frigates and if applicable some logistic cruisers.

Miri Tirzan
Caldari
Clan Korval
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:36:00 - [51]
 

No one is going to waste time with low sec. Jita not broken. Keep saying that till you sinks in.

Low sec is broken. The risk far out ways the reward and has for years. If you want to get players into low sec then a few things need to be done, and not the crap you like to spew.

Add Fog of war back into the map.

Number of pilots in space should only show near real time for the systems that are controlled. Basically, if you dont control a system, then you cannot see what is in there. A skill at launching probes though stargates would be nice or some kinda deployable sensor platform to feed information back to the owner who is a jump or two away. But for low-sec, the empire that owns the systems knows who is where but for everyone else, you don't.

Add risk to Low sec

Low sec is not NO SEC so there should be a random chance that agression is going to get a response by the owning empire. Camping for hours style gate camping should be impossible in low sec. An Empire owns that space and should takes steps to remove the camp after the first few kills. Any kill should have chance of the owning empire sending a police force in, based on the security level, to address the agression. Since there is more agression in low sec then the chance that the police are off dealing with a different issue is high but you could get unlucky.

Scanners and Probes

Scanners and probes with Kali are too easy. Before it was too hard but now it is just too easy. CCP needs to dial it back to a mid point. This is already driving the mission runners out of low sec.

New Item

CCP needs to introduce a moble bubble. It should make targeting anything inside of it impossible. It should be mounted on a ship that cannot be inside of the bubble. The idea behind this is to let there actually be a way to defend with a combat force and force the raiders priates to kill the defensive units before they can just pop the easy targets. This would suppost mining in high risk areas but not stop the pirates but does add the ability to defend.

As to Jita

Jita was made by the players. Anything done to hurt Jita will just cause another one to appear, why, because it is the easies way to sell stuff. You may not like Jita, but your fellow players have and they like it. I would suggest that a bypass system be added to allow though traffic a way with out adding to the crowding.

Basically,

I see no worth while suggestions in this thred from you or in the last one where you spewwed the same crap. If you want to get people into low sec, then offer a suggestion that makes the risk vs reward acceptible not your standard "You are wimps for not wanting to come out and be a target"



Acama
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:37:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
mOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo


I have already made all my points to you, repeatedly, in the other thread.

All I have to add is, in an amicable and in-character way, I think you're an idiot.

DarkFenix
Caldari
Lords 0f Ruin
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:39:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: DarkFenix on 04/12/2006 12:41:40
Edited by: DarkFenix on 04/12/2006 12:39:33
I really don't think Merchantigus has ever left high sec.

Low sec pirates
Firstly, an escort ship is a waste of money in low sec, there just isn't the profit available. Secondly, aside from the occasional noob in a frigate who fancies himself a bit of pvp action, low sec pirates tend to fly well fitted powerful ships. They have to, due to these things we call sentry guns. This means they will probably be able to toast an escort ship in pretty short order, and even if they can't they can toast the miners before you can so much as blink. I did it recently.

I was part of a small gang of cruisers, t1 cruisers, t1 fitted, about 4 of us, . We warped into a small 0.0 mining op. 0.0 so these people will surely be vigilant won't they? In fact there was a 40 man fleet in local chasing us, their alliance chat must have been full of talk about the hostiles coming up towards them. But what happened? We warped to their belt, found a covetor and mackinor there. They were both scrambled and destroyed before anyone could do anything to help them. No, this wasn't low sec, but the point stands. Miners can be easily popped before escorts can respond effectively.

As for moving to 0.0, I'll agree with an earlier poster who said 0.0 is effectively broken. Sure, it's nice to shift out to 0.0 for a while to make some money, but living there is rather dull unless you're in a war (in which case you're not going to be making much profit, if any).

As for Jita

And to be perfectly honest, I don't mind Jita's lag. The queues are seldom as bad as they were immediately after Kali deployment, and it means I can buy and fit my ship from a single station, for a reasonable price at that. I don't try doing anything else in Jita, I just go there to shop, then I leave.

@ Acama: You think he's an idiot? That suggests you're in some doubt as to his idiocy.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:39:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Acama


I have already made all my points to you, repeatedly, in the other thread.

All I have to add is, in an amicable and in-character way, I think you're an idiot.


same to you buddy.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:40:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:40:51
"I've been playing for nearly three years and I've only ever met one pirate. He tried to ransom a can of Kernite and I told him to go suck on it. He blew it up. I waited for him to leave. He never came back. The moral here is to mine where it's quiet instead of next door to Jita."

See this man? he gets it and he's making alot of money for it.

I used to do the same thing as this man and i also made lots of money for it.

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:41:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Tachy on 04/12/2006 12:45:31
Your US troops gain anything pat their pay + combat bonus for being send into Iraq for the Bush family's oil and their friend's trade?

They come back home with bags full of gold?
So they're looters and thieves and if they're cought, they might end up being executed for conducting war crimes. Great fun.

You forgot the couple 10k soldiers who lost their health and most of their future options while being there in your equation. I know people who came back from war service wounded and/or with massive mental problems.

In my math I am still 1.2mil, two ships and probably some minor implants and 1-2 clones ahead for producing and selling in the trade hubs. Not to mention that I have to spend less time travelling and that I can run missions while you're still sucking in minerals in LowSec. Laughing

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:42:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:46:47
Your US troops gain anything pat their pay + combat bonus for being send into Iraq for the Bush family's oil and their friend's trade?

They come back home with bags full of gold?
So they're looters and thieves and if they're cought, they might end up being executed for conducting war crimes. Great fun.

not acual gold and i was talking about the indipendant mercs. learn to read.

You forgot the couple 10k soldiers who lost their health and most of their future options while being there in your equation. I know people who came back from war service wounded and/or with massive mental problems.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GODDAMN SOLDIERS

"In my math I am still 1.2bil, two ships and probably some minor implants and 1-2 clones ahead for producing and selling in the trade hubs. Not to mention that I have to spend less time travelling and that I can run missions while you're still sucking in minerals in LowSec."

good for you not everyone is where you are.
you are part of the forge that makes up the core of eves economy and have no use for taking risk since you make make insane amounts of money. you don't need to take risk to make great reward but not everyone is like that.

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:46:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:35:50
@ disco flint
i'm not saying it's totally full proof
I'm not saying it works all the time
i'm saying it can be done rather cheaply and by the end of the day you could be wealthy. i'm also saying there is risk vs this reward.
you COULD end up missing a few ships or be stuck in the station for a bit..or you could leave very well off.
Many people have whinned and whinned saying it can't be done. i'm saying it can but there are risk. if you can't handle that enjoy your veldspare.

Just like mr veldspare up there it's risk vs reward. i'm not saying any of this is without risk. i'm saying for that risk there is very great reward waiting.
it's something each person must weigh but it can be done is all i'm trying to get across and the two of you have admitted as much.
Yes there is great risk. Yes there is great reward. and that's the whole point. it can be done and if the risk doesn't show up and pod you the reward is incredible.

...*snipped*...


First: I never, ever mined in high-sec and I very rarely mine in lowsec, though I admit to having mined ~100m of whatever in my badger on my second day in EVE and I still feel dirty for it :(

Second: Even I know that veldspar isn't the only mineral found in high-sec systems. Generalizations concerning high-sec ores are bad mmkay

Third: The main problem for mining in low-sec is: There is no RISK of being attacked. Unless you safespot for everyone not known to you there is the CERTAINITY of being attacked. And as pointed out: you can't protect barges. 2-4 salvos from a cruiser will pop a barge. That's maybe 10 seconds he needs to lock and kill one. And one dead barge can very well be the total DAILY income of your mining op. Not very productive, a lousy risk vs reward ratio if you ask me.

And if you say: Well, then fit your barges cheap!
Then I say: Well, then there's almost as much profit if you mine in highsec with an expensive fitted barge!

As it stands now, you have about 2x the income from lowsec mining over highsec mining (8m vs 4m per hour), but you have infinitely more risk (certainity of being shot on sight vs if someone touches me CONCORD will break his fingers. And then continue to kick him in the nuts.).

Low-Sec mining, unless you got a few systems pretty much 'safe' and know the locals, is NOT valuable because barges can NOT be protected. Anyone who claims otherwise is just, plain and simply, wrong.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 12:57:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 13:01:23
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:59:59
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 12:58:37
"First: I never, ever mined in high-sec and I very rarely mine in lowsec, though I admit to having mined ~100m of whatever in my badger on my second day in EVE and I still feel dirty for it :("

...in the last post you mention mining in high sec because low sec has to much risk then you say.

"And if you say: Well, then fit your barges cheap!
Then I say: Well, then there's almost as much profit if you mine in highsec with an expensive fitted barge!"

before bothering me again you really need to figure out if you mine in high sec or not..

"Low-Sec mining, unless you got a few systems pretty much 'safe' and know the locals"

this is one of the points i keep trying to make. use your head the risk goes way down. thanks

"is NOT valuable because barges can NOT be protected. Anyone who claims otherwise is just, plain and simply, wrong."

unless you use the first part of that thought and tac on bring an ecm frig...

"Third: The main problem for mining in low-sec is: There is no RISK of being attacked. Unless you safespot for everyone not known to you there is the CERTAINITY of being attacked. And as pointed out: you can't protect barges. 2-4 salvos from a cruiser will pop a barge. That's maybe 10 seconds he needs to lock and kill one. And one dead barge can very well be the total DAILY income of your mining op. Not very productive, a lousy risk vs reward ratio if you ask me."

And if you say: Well, then fit your barges cheap!
Then I say: Well, then there's almost as much profit if you mine in highsec with an expensive fitted barge!

As it stands now, you have about 2x the income from lowsec mining over highsec mining (8m vs 4m per hour), but you have infinitely more risk (certainity of being shot on sight vs if someone touches me CONCORD will break his fingers. And then continue to kick him in the nuts.).

Low-Sec mining, unless you got a few systems pretty much 'safe' and know the locals, is NOT valuable because barges can NOT be protected. Anyone who claims otherwise is just, plain and simply, wrong.


that last bit was so messed up i'm just going to plop down what i get from all of it

a.you only mine in high sec but have only once done it and you are ashamed.
b. there is no risk but there is alot of risk it's imposible but if you watch local it's not.
c. once again you mine in high sec all day
d. you could make double but it's lousy risk vs reward

i'm not goig any farther this is hurting my mind...
before you bother me again.
1. figure out if you mine in high sec or not
2. leave high sec for once. i say this because you mention mining in high sec more often than you deny it
3. eh....ok you know what just don't post again...

...from what i can figure out of all that
1. if you watch local(and perhaps bring a frig or two it can be done(but at the same time it's impossible)
2. there is twice the money to be made(atleast he got that right)
3. you have no idea what so ever about what you are talking about...once you figure out what you are trying to say come back and tell my why what i'm saying is wrong(or right? that made so little sense i'm abit confused)

Terdarius
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:01:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus

you have no idea what so ever about what you are talking about...
eh....ok you know what just don't post again...4


You should really take you're own advice....


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