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Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 09:00:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:02:19
low sec.
The reason there are so many pirates is because there is so much easy prey. fight back and the noobs will find something else to do if the easy money dries up.
1. dont go out mining alone. 2 noobs in frigs are enough to run off/escape most pirates
2. dont run around ratting with only one type of resist/dmg type.
There are so many ways to foil a pirate in low sec yet none of them are done. then you all come on the forums and whine about it. it's amazing.
Most of the pirates in low sec were gate camping noobs now most of the pirates in low sec have either given up or starting hunting people in missions but they are still noobs with a jammer. sure there may be a few big fish out there but i spend alot of time in low sec and i've only run into 1 big ship so far.

"if you don't wanna to get ****ed on move cha **** out tha way!" simple as that

to the people whining about it being empty: yep. you noobed all the fish to death. sure it's their own fault but our food supply has been hunted to non existance. after you get your feet on the ground move to .0 and stop being a *****.

The reason jita is so clogged is because it's the only place to get things.
you think i and many others enjoy running to jita all the time? you dont think we'd much rather pay more to get it all in one spot and not have to jump halfway across the universe? ffs spread it out youselves. one man in a frieghter could not only make a large fortune but also make a large dint in the jita problem. and that's just one person.
at the very least i have to make 8 jumps just to get a ship then i have to make 15 more running around gathering stuff up. if it was all in one place a few jumps away do you not think people would be willing to pay more for it? add that into how cheap things are in jita and you just got yourself a fortune.

Eve is all about the players. eve is what YOU not ccp makes of it. whinning and whinning for artificial controls to counter stupidity is not the way to do it. it's your sandbox make a footprint and change it yourself.
What makes eve eve is this freedom and the more people whine it out of existance the less of a soul it has.
If there is a counter no adjustment is needed. there are plenty of very simple counters. it's not ccps fault you wont do them.

Eve is one of the few places left on this earth where the laws of nature apply to humans. if whinners somehow destroy that be... well there aren't words.

Eve is a sandbox full of ants. you guys are like "wHAaaa the cookies is all in one place i do likes it!". sooo move the damn cookies yourself? when even ants are outsmarting you it's never a good sign

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 09:06:00 - [2]
 

Why do you open another thread to the same topic without any new insight?

Your assumptions are still flawed on all accounts.

Ishana
Minmatar
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 09:09:00 - [3]
 

Have you ever been a victim of a pirate? Because it sounds to me you never even have been out of high sec space tbh.

2 noobs in frigs enough to run off/escape most pirates? lol I'd like to see that. Most of the pirates i know are old veterans with 20+ mil skillpoints that are tired from the broken 0.0 parts of the game, and moved to low sec to have fun again. Even if we "noob" all the fish out of low sec, it will just be our own private little part of space, don't worry about us, really.
Moving to 0.0 like you suggest is excactly what most of us don't want, because 0.0 is broken and not fun, believe me I've been there. (lived there for over a year)

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 09:15:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 09:28:45
"Have you ever been a victim of a pirate? Because it sounds to me you never even have been out of high sec space tbh."

Sure hoss

"2 noobs in frigs enough to run off/escape most pirates? lol I'd like to see that."

Should of been there it was great to watch and if you arent an idiot it's very easy to do

"Most of the pirates i know are old veterans with 20+ mil skillpoints that are tired from the broken 0.0 parts of the game,"
lol once again sure hoss. i see so many of those while i'm out hunting.

"and moved to low sec to have fun again. Even if we "noob" all the fish out of low sec, it will just be our own private little part of space, don't worry about us, really.
Moving to 0.0 like you suggest is excactly what most of us don't want, because 0.0 is broken and not fun, believe me I've been there. (lived there for over a year)"

if you can assume i've never left high sec i can assume you went to .0 once and got podded over and over. thus decided it's broken.
If you actually did live out there i'll assume your little corp full of ***** got your asses handed to you over and over and you ran away screaming like little girls.

"Why do you open another thread to the same topic without any new insight?"

because this is my thread stating my views about the topics that keep popping up in every single post people make? atleast now people can fight about it all in one place and stop hijaking every other post. and as i've not put all this together before i'd have to say it's new insight

Your assumptions are still flawed on all accounts"

Good to know. personally i think your assumptions are flawed as well. thus the post.

another fine reason for this post. the ops ideas in most of the others are so horrid it makes my brain bleed. Atleast if they read this op they wont lose any brain cells in the process

Ishana
Minmatar
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 09:31:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Ishana on 04/12/2006 09:31:32
Well I invite you to the Mito constelation then, don't worry about the trip back, you'll be in your cloing station soon enough.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 09:53:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:05:35
someone anyone? Logical reasons this can't be done?
Jita or low sec take your pic.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:03:00 - [7]
 

Has the op even been out of high sec?

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:05:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Fuujin
Has the op even been out of high sec?

would you care to post some logical reasons this can't be done? the door is wide open

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:11:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Fuujin on 04/12/2006 10:12:22
For one, for a group to put 2 people out of a mining op in low sec on cap duty defeats the whole purpose of mining in low sec. Profit. Putting those 2 people behind mining lasers mining scordite will yield you more money then the alternative, much less risk in the process too.

Second there's the issue of them being able to defend such an endeavor WITHOUT taking losses. More often then not lowsec pirates fly around in groups. Even when they're alone they're usually more then well fitted for quickly dispaching an enemy and getting out of there if need be to come back and pick off another. Even for experienced people with low sec this can sometimes be an issue.

I've seen a single pilgrim pilot take out several ships in a mining party, even with cap. It's not a rare occurence what so ever.

It's not worth the payout, it's as simple as that and it doesn't work nearly as easily as you put it.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:16:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:18:46
"For one, for a group to put 2 people out of a mining op in low sec on cap duty defeats the whole purpose of mining in low sec. Profit. Putting those 2 people behind mining lasers mining scordite will yield you more money then the alternative, much less risk in the process too."

so bring your two miners and hire 2 noobs in griffons? i'm not sure where you live but last time i checked noobs were cheap.
And if you are trying to tell me there is simply more money to be made mining veldspar you are plain wrong.

"Second there's the issue of them being able to defend such an endeavor WITHOUT taking losses. More often then not lowsec pirates fly around in groups. Even when they're alone they're usually more then well fitted for quickly dispaching an enemy and getting out of there if need be to come back and pick off another. Even for experienced people with low sec this can sometimes be an issue."

2 frigs with ecm or dampers = sol pirate. if you are aligned correctly you will be out of there before they can fire a shot. If more than one pirate comes up and you just sit there that's what you get for not watching local. 5 pirates show up? dock and log 10 mins should be enough time for them to move on.

"It's not worth the payout, it's as simple as that and it doesn't work nearly as easily as you put it."
If you do it wrong no it's not...and with half a brain it will work exactly as i put it.

Fuujin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:18:00 - [11]
 

Yeah, now i'm convinced you probably haven't even stepped out of Kisogo. Thanks but conversation over.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Fuujin
Yeah, now i'm convinced you probably haven't even stepped out of Kisogo. Thanks but conversation over.


gj next?

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:20:00 - [13]
 

heck.. i'm trading my butt off already and it's only possible due to some friendly producers - those, that have not (yet) moved to jita in order to stash _all_ the money. warp-to-zero has made the entire business of spreading the modules a lot easier.. if there were enough to distro: 10% for bringing the stuff around, taking all the risks, paying tax, paying the broker, undercutting other ones just like you etc is not the idea of heaven as you describe it.
also, having 20bil in items waiting weeks to be sold in order to make 50mil/day, reduces the amount of possible price balancers drastically.
now, with all that, we're between a rock and a hard place already. if it weren't for patch days combined with some more or less lucky speculations, there's no reason to even start trying - with and especially without alt.chars for undercutting and logistics.
not trying to shift the blame for high prices 'cause there's nothing to actually shift. however, cursing the resellers for inhabiting this rough environment and demanding them to do more is just ridiculous.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:26:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:03:15
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
heck.. i'm trading my butt off already and it's only possible due to some friendly producers - those, that have not (yet) moved to jita in order to stash _all_ the money. warp-to-zero has made the entire business of spreading the modules a lot easier.. if there were enough to distro: 10% for bringing the stuff around, taking all the risks, paying tax, paying the broker, undercutting other ones just like you etc is not the idea of heaven as you describe it.
also, having 20bil in items waiting weeks to be sold in order to make 50mil/day, reduces the amount of possible price balancers drastically.
now, with all that, we're between a rock and a hard place already. if it weren't for patch days combined with some more or less lucky speculations, there's no reason to even start trying - with and especially without alt.chars for undercutting and logistics.
not trying to shift the blame for high prices 'cause there's nothing to actually shift. however, cursing the resellers for inhabiting this rough environment and demanding them to do more is just ridiculous.


I'm not suggesting the poor souls that form the backbone of our economy start drudging around the univesrse. the guy growing the "stuff" in the congo isn't the guy on the street pushing it.
there is money to be made and while making it a problem can be solved. if i had a frieghter and the isk i'd be in jita filling it at this very moment. i'm not suggesting the trade base move from jita i'm suggesting people move the product from the base to the consumers.
The people i see doing this wouldn't be the guys with bpos to high heavens or the hard core traders but less fortunate people that are drawn by the money.
eve works alot like rl. this is just another example. supply is high in jita demand is therefore low. supply is low at the rims and therefore demand is high.
Bring the supply where the demand is and make some money. do this enough and outer trade hubs start to flourish and take the pessure off jita because there are other places to find stuff.
Before this wouldn't work so well because of the freggen gate campers and travel times. with wtz though it's just sitting there waiting.

Miyoko Sanae
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:30:00 - [15]
 

You figure demand is low in Jita? Have you taken a look at the mineral market there since the patch?

Ishana
Minmatar
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:30:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
so bring your two miners and hire 2 noobs in griffons? i'm not sure where you live but last time i checked noobs were cheap.
And if you are trying to tell me there is simply more money to be made mining veldspar you are plain wrong.


If you could mine continuasly then you're right low sec would be better. But you would be docked for hours on end or be shot to bits, eitehr way he's right mining veldspar in high sec is better.

Originally by: Merchantigus
2 frigs with ecm or dampers = sol pirate. if you are aligned correctly you will be out of there before they can fire a shot. If more than one pirate comes up and you just sit there that's what you get for not watching local. 5 pirates show up? dock and log 10 mins should be enough time for them to move on.


Ok let's forget that you can't mine while you're at speed and have to be sitting still, and forget the fact that the pirates have drones/fofs ecm/damps of their own, let's forget that 2 frigs will never break a pirates tank, and lets also forget about sniper pirates that 1 shot your mining barge from 200km or pirates in recon ships. Do you really think it's better to flee time and time again then to mine continuasly in high sec? Because I can tell you you will be docked most of the time if you manage to avoid the pirates.

Originally by: Merchantigus
If you do it wrong no it's not...and with half a brain it will work exactly as i put it.

The funny thing is that anyone with 10% of a brain can see it's not worth it in this version of eve. Seems you live in fantasy eve, good luck with that.

Sinder Ohm
Demonic Corp
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:31:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ishana
Most of the pirates i know are old veterans with 20+ mil skillpoints that are tired from the broken 0.0 parts of the game, and moved to low sec to have fun again. Even if we "noob" all the fish out of low sec, it will just be our own private little part of space, don't worry about us, really.
Moving to 0.0 like you suggest is excactly what most of us don't want, because 0.0 is broken and not fun, believe me I've been there. (lived there for over a year)


I live in 0.0 aswell granted only 3 months sofar but im interested to find out why you say 0.0 is broken ?
Since I find it way better than rotting with the other carebears in empire.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:31:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:41:33
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:36:10
Originally by: Miyoko Sanae
You figure demand is low in Jita? Have you taken a look at the mineral market there since the patch?


Do people out in the outland buy minerals? no. they buy mods/ships/ammo/drones/anything but ore.

the ore goes to jita because that's where the demand is. the demand areas for ore are usually about oposite of the demand areas for ships and mods.

ore- outlands -----> jita
stuff- outlands<-----jita
the second part of this equation is currently broken and the cause of the problems.
It became like this because of gatecamps and incredibly long travel times. wtz now opens the path for it to go the other way and i belive it's part of why they implimented it.
"but i might get ganked even with wtz!"
send a shuttle through first? use the map to look for and avoid hot spots? or even better do both to have complete safety?

Ishana
Minmatar
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Sinder Ohm
Originally by: Ishana
Most of the pirates i know are old veterans with 20+ mil skillpoints that are tired from the broken 0.0 parts of the game, and moved to low sec to have fun again. Even if we "noob" all the fish out of low sec, it will just be our own private little part of space, don't worry about us, really.
Moving to 0.0 like you suggest is excactly what most of us don't want, because 0.0 is broken and not fun, believe me I've been there. (lived there for over a year)


I live in 0.0 aswell granted only 3 months sofar but im interested to find out why you say 0.0 is broken ?
Since I find it way better than rotting with the other carebears in empire.


it's not 0.0 that is broken actually it's more the whole pos/sov/capital thing that is no were near balanced atm. It's boring as hell and after months of pos warfare it's anything but fun. When a game starts feeling like a job, you should realy evaluate what you're doing, and that's what allot of us did.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:38:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:38:24
Originally by: Ishana
Originally by: Sinder Ohm
Originally by: Ishana
Most of the pirates i know are old veterans with 20+ mil skillpoints that are tired from the broken 0.0 parts of the game, and moved to low sec to have fun again. Even if we "noob" all the fish out of low sec, it will just be our own private little part of space, don't worry about us, really.
Moving to 0.0 like you suggest is excactly what most of us don't want, because 0.0 is broken and not fun, believe me I've been there. (lived there for over a year)


I live in 0.0 aswell granted only 3 months sofar but im interested to find out why you say 0.0 is broken ?
Since I find it way better than rotting with the other carebears in empire.


it's not 0.0 that is broken actually it's more the whole pos/sov/capital thing that is no were near balanced atm. It's boring as hell and after months of pos warfare it's anything but fun. When a game starts feeling like a job, you should realy evaluate what you're doing, and that's what allot of us did.


i'll let someone else say it....and wtf does this have to do with either of the topics? go somewhere else to whine?

Miyoko Sanae
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:41:00 - [21]
 

WTZ was implemented to reduce server lag due to bookmarks. The centralized market that is jita won't change that easily simply because nobody wants to travel through several regions to find the best prices on an item. There are regionalized markets, jita is just the biggest and most well known one in the game. Even if resources were spread out more we'd still have a huge amount of traffic there unless they suddenly stuck it on the complete opposite end of the map behind 20 jumps through 0.0. You won't make enough catering to small groups of customers with what your suggesting considering the time investement.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 10:49:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:59:40
"WTZ was implemented to reduce server lag due to bookmarks."
Thats "the" reason but from watching these guys over the years they often see a very big picture and do things for more reasons than they let on.

"The centralized market that is jita won't change that easily simply because nobody wants to travel through several
regions to find the best prices on an item."

This is how it is in low/no sec but the opposite. no one wants to travel through several regions to find the cheapest item and often will spend much more just to save a few jumps. Figure out what the people of the region buy alot of or wish they could find. buy alot of it cheap in jita drop it out near where the people live? Are you not seeing this?


"There are regionalized markets, jita is just the biggest and most well known one in the game. Even if resources were spread out more we'd still have a huge amount of traffic there
unless they suddenly stuck it on the complete opposite end of the map behind 20 jumps through 0.0."

There will always be major hubs but this would atleast take a good bit of pressure off. if people could find things near lowsec/.0 they would spend a pretty penny more just to save wasted time. you can't gouge through the roof but you can turn a hefty profit even if you buy from the hubs and not directly from jita.

"You won't make enough catering to small groups of customers with what your suggesting considering the time investement."

My entire region is mostly devoid of items. even being right on the edge i still have to make 8 jumps in many directions to gather all the new parts each and every time i lose a ship. and this is after i travel out of .0 and low sec and back into green land because outside of that there is nothing.
there are alot of people out there in the outlands and there are alot of lost ships. people would pay a good bit more compared to the "hubs" and in jita things are even cheaper.
+ there are ALOT more ships blown up out there. pirates/corp wars/i dont like you *pop* compared to "oops i lost a ship to rats lolz". fighting people is alot harder than fighting rats and therefore they go through stuff alot faster.
There may be fewer people than in empire but they go through a hell of alot more ships. and if you could set up a post near a war zone the money would be beyond comprehension.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:09:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:19:12
"If you could mine continuasly then you're right low sec would be better. But you would be docked for hours on end or be shot to bits, eitehr way he's right mining veldspar in high sec is better."
your welcome to the veldspare but you admit the money is there.

"Ok let's forget that you can't mine while you're at speed and have to be sitting still, and forget the fact that the pirates have drones/fofs ecm/damps of their own, let's forget that 2 frigs will never break a pirates tank"

The idea isn't to kill the pirates the idea is to scamble them untill your barge is away

"and lets also forget about sniper pirates that 1 shot your mining barge from 200km or pirates in recon ships."

Once again this light setup isn't ment to counter EVERY pirate. there are a few big fish in the pond but most are minnows. if someone shows up in the "deathanator 3k" yes he'll still get you but as you are bringing a low cost setup of two em frigs you are taking more risk for more reward. welcome the the concept behind eve.

"Do you really think it's better to flee time and time again then to mine continuasly in high sec? Because I can tell you you will be docked most of the time if you manage to avoid the pirates."
Risk V reward. it's up to each person to answere this question for himself.
you could make a fortune in hours or you could spend hours camped by pirates. once again welcome to eve.




"The funny thing is that anyone with 10% of a brain can see it's not worth it in this version of eve."
i think you got the 10% of a brain right...

"Seems you live in fantasy eve, good luck with that."
No i live in an eve where i decide to take higher risk for the chance of greater rewards.
you live in an eve hiding in high sec mining veldspar...
The thing about eve is it can be both. my post pleads to those willing to take a risk to come back with a fat sack of gold.

Back when i was in a mining corp we did this. somedays we spent docked hiding from pirates. somedays we spent bringing in isk by the truckload. there was risk but there was sooo much yummy reward. After a while replaced the frigs with battleships and moved into .o which is the exact same thing but bigger ships and more people aka more risk and therefore more reward.

Low sec is the midpoint between .0 and high sec.
i have no respect for the corps/players that stay in high sec.
i have no respect for the corps/players that stay in low sec.
the people i have respect for start off in high sec move to low sec and then eventually move father out to bring in wealth that would boggle the mind. this is how the game was ment to be played.
sadly some just dont get it.
Some pvpers hide in low sec and refuse to move on when it's time
Some pvers hide in high sec and refuse to move on when it's time
this is what the devs mean by "everyone should move to .0" it's their goal to drive you there because there you find the heart of eve.
Highsec--->lowsec---->.0 you can come back and argue untill you are blue in the face that this just isn't so but i was there in the begening when they first started their vision.
i was there in the begening when the lag was so bad you couldn't leave the station
i was there are they tossed the idea of high/low sec around in their heads and decided there needed to be buffer areas for new people.
and now i'm here to watch people that just dont get it from all sides try to snuff out the soul of the game.

Kagashi
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:12:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Kagashi on 04/12/2006 11:18:09
Well im not going to comment on the OP because it was mostly just rubbish he couldnt sell in another thread. He obviouly thought it was so great it was worth another shot..

Ahh well....

However. I have been thinking about the Jita issue for some time and i think i have a solution to solve the problem.
Think of a crowd of people at a concert.. the more people the crazyer the crowd gets .. the more uncontrollable.

What if for ever 50 people in a system the sec droped by 0.1 just with regard to concord.

So you get 250 people in a sysetm thats a 0.5 drop in sec

I garentee you would have less people in jita

EDIT.. fixed my maths

Disco Flint
The Flaming Sideburn's
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:18:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 10:18:46
"For one, for a group to put 2 people out of a mining op in low sec on cap duty defeats the whole purpose of mining in low sec. Profit. Putting those 2 people behind mining lasers mining scordite will yield you more money then the alternative, much less risk in the process too."

so bring your two miners and hire 2 noobs in griffons? i'm not sure where you live but last time i checked noobs were cheap.
And if you are trying to tell me there is simply more money to be made mining veldspar you are plain wrong.

"Second there's the issue of them being able to defend such an endeavor WITHOUT taking losses. More often then not lowsec pirates fly around in groups. Even when they're alone they're usually more then well fitted for quickly dispaching an enemy and getting out of there if need be to come back and pick off another. Even for experienced people with low sec this can sometimes be an issue."

2 frigs with ecm or dampers = sol pirate. if you are aligned correctly you will be out of there before they can fire a shot. If more than one pirate comes up and you just sit there that's what you get for not watching local. 5 pirates show up? dock and log 10 mins should be enough time for them to move on.

"It's not worth the payout, it's as simple as that and it doesn't work nearly as easily as you put it."
If you do it wrong no it's not...and with half a brain it will work exactly as i put it.


- There's no way to protect the barges -
Even with someone flying escort, you can't kill them fast enough, force them to fire on the escort or anything. ECM, Sensor Damps etc will maybe help your miners get out 50% of the time if you're lucky. Even if it's a suicide run for the pirate in the end, he can have a cheap fitting, fully insured ship and close to zero loss while having quite some fun, while one or two barges down, not even mentioning the hauler, pretty much ruin your day.

- Watching local / Safespotting is NOT an option -
Even in the most quiet lowsec systems there will be traffic, people looking for juicy belt rats, people feeding their POS'es and ebil people looking for juicy prey.
Unless you safespot EVERY time as soon as someone appears in local that you do not know, you're ****ed. Even if aligned, barges require aeons to accelerate to warp.
So, now you safespot every time an unknown person comes into local; that's a massive loss you're taking there. Even when not ice-mining, where stopping the miners before the cycle time ends yields you crap all for 1-9 minutes work, even then you'll most likely spend 5-25 minutes at your safespot and then some more until you're in 'mining position' again.

- So you're hiring noobs to have some pawns you can sacrifice? -
Well uhm... you know, you can't see if they're alts, belonging to a corp filled with ebil griefers. Do you want to seriously risk your barges, hauler and time spent that evening to a pair of noobs who might just warpscramble you in the moment of emergency?
Yes, one has to be paranoid in EVE.

- Roll a D20 for initiative -
And lastly, THEY (the ebil bloodsucking pirates) have the initiative, they can decide wether they want to fight or not, they decide on the range of the engagement, they can make bookmarks all around your mining op with a cov ops alt (which, given you don't ss every time someone enters local, you wont be seeing unless you do a 360 every 30secs) and they can generally hold out long enough to BaF should, against all odds, things go seriously wrong for them.



So after all, you either have been EXTREMELY lucky with your time in lowsec, the people and pirates you encountered and the systems you were in... or you see lowsec through pink, sparkly 'High-Sec Issue' glasses.

On a totally unrelated side-note: **** you forum, **** you.

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:19:00 - [26]
 

Moving your goods to LowSec and NulSec isn't worth it until you have other business out there too. There aren't enough customers.

I did that for a while. Too much hassle for far less profit for my time. I went back to supply HiSec trade hubs even though I can sell my goods for only half the amount of cash.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Sell 10 ships at 200k profit each in LowSec. Lose 2 ships to pirates in average.
Sell 40 ships at 80k profit each in HiSec. Pay 10% more for your minerals.
Both can be done in the same time. You'd go path 1.

The #pirates in LowSec didn't change. At least not in the areas I visited over the weekend.

Sirial Soulfly
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:22:00 - [27]
 

One of the reasons why jita is clogged after the implementation of revelations is because of the removal of escrow, forcing more people to buy and sell their stuff in trade hubs.

If ever contracts are made to be usable globally it will take some pressure of the trade hubs.

Tachy
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:24:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Kagashi
Edited by: Kagashi on 04/12/2006 11:18:09
Well im not going to comment on the OP because it was mostly just rubbish he couldnt sell in another thread. He obviouly thought it was so great it was worth another shot..

Ahh well....

However. I have been thinking about the Jita issue for some time and i think i have a solution to solve the problem.
Think of a crowd of people at a concert.. the more people the crazyer the crowd gets .. the more uncontrollable.

What if for ever 50 people in a system the sec droped by 0.1 just with regard to concord.

So you get 250 people in a sysetm thats a 0.5 drop in sec

I garentee you would have less people in jita

EDIT.. fixed my maths


Nice idea, but it wont change anything.

Clonejump, WTZ, massive market where you can get all you need in one go.
Shop, install, warp out.
The more centralized escrow replacement doesn't help either. It could be used to support setup traders, but that wont happen as the pilot can grab their stuff in the same time or even much faster than it takes to search for a setup in contracts you like.

Rorix Whitecloud
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:27:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Merchantigus
Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:11:01
"If you could mine continuasly then you're right low sec would be better. But you would be docked for hours on end or be shot to bits, eitehr way he's right mining veldspar in high sec is better."
your welcome to the veldspare but you admit the money is there.

"Ok let's forget that you can't mine while you're at speed and have to be sitting still, and forget the fact that the pirates have drones/fofs ecm/damps of their own, let's forget that 2 frigs will never break a pirates tank"

The idea isn't to kill the pirates the idea is to scamble them untill your barge is away

"and lets also forget about sniper pirates that 1 shot your mining barge from 200km or pirates in recon ships."

Once again this light setup isn't ment to counter EVERY pirate. there are a few big fish in the pond but most are minnows. if someone shows up in the "deathanator 3k" yes he'll still get you but as you are bringing a low cost setup of two em frigs you are taking more risk for more reward. welcome the the concept behind eve.

"Do you really think it's better to flee time and time again then to mine continuasly in high sec? Because I can tell you you will be docked most of the time if you manage to avoid the pirates."
Risk V reward. it's up to each person to answere this question for himself.
you could make a fortune in hours or you could spend hours camped by pirates. once again welcome to eve.




"The funny thing is that anyone with 10% of a brain can see it's not worth it in this version of eve."
i think you got the 10% of a brain right...

"Seems you live in fantasy eve, good luck with that."
No i live in an eve where i decide to take higher risk for the chance of greater rewards.
you live in an eve hiding in high sec mining veldspar...
The thing about eve is it can be both. my post pleads to those willing to take a risk to come back with a fat sack of gold.


Merch, you really need to learn to type.. or learn english.

Now, lets look at what you can mine in high sec, and what you can mine in lowsec.

Highsec: Kernite/Jaspet and above @ 4mil an hour
Lowsec: Hegberdite/Hemorphite and above @ 8mil an hour

So, this means, if you can mine in low sec HALF the time you need to mine in high sec, you've made a profit, and this is assuming no ship-losses.

IF you got your newbies in their frigs guarding you, and you get away from pirates and whatnot, you just lost all the ores you've been mining in the can you've dropped. That's all the profit in the last hour gone.

Or, you can ninja mine and not use cans, which'll drop your profit to half of that, which would make low sec not worth it at all.

Or, if you're unlucky and see one of those experienced pirates, you've just lose 20+ mil worth of strip miners, in addition to the ore you've been mining in the past hour.

Either way, its a losing propsition to be mining in low sec right now, and it really doesnt matter how high you think the reward is in low sec.

Merchantigus
Minmatar
Riot Zone
Posted - 2006.12.04 11:30:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Merchantigus on 04/12/2006 11:35:50
@ disco flint
i'm not saying it's totally full proof
I'm not saying it works all the time
i'm saying it can be done rather cheaply and by the end of the day you could be wealthy. i'm also saying there is risk vs this reward.
you COULD end up missing a few ships or be stuck in the station for a bit..or you could leave very well off.
Many people have whinned and whinned saying it can't be done. i'm saying it can but there are risk. if you can't handle that enjoy your veldspare.

Just like mr veldspare up there it's risk vs reward. i'm not saying any of this is without risk. i'm saying for that risk there is very great reward waiting.
it's something each person must weigh but it can be done is all i'm trying to get across and the two of you have admitted as much.
Yes there is great risk. Yes there is great reward. and that's the whole point. it can be done and if the risk doesn't show up and pod you the reward is incredible.

@wolf

Highsec: Kernite/Jaspet and above @ 4mil an hour
Lowsec: Hegberdite/Hemorphite and above @ 8mil an hour
....yah twice the reward...if you don't think that's worth some risk enjoy your veldspar
thanks for doing that math for me . i knew there was alot more to be made but i didn't know it was double.

"Merch, you really need to learn to type.. or learn english."
When still up at 6 am you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm yess


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