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blankseplocked "warp to 0" much worse than BM's, almost lost ship!
 
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Moe deLawn
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.12.03 15:56:00 - [1]
 

Much to my dismay, warp to 0 does not actually warp to 0, and I almost lost a ship. I suspect others may soon too.

What happened was I hit warp to 0 to a station, but was left about 1800m away. Which is NOT good if you're in a hauler! In the time it took to turn and start flying in to dock, I was locked, and thankfully NOT webbed, or else I would have been hosed by that guy tanking the station guns :(. I think he already had another target he was killing.

With my old bookmarks, which are about to vanish, I could always warp right in and dock. So this is dangerous, and kind of ticks me off.

My two cents worth.

And while I'm complaining, I hope they finally fix the market details graph to show the Y-axis properly when the prices are over 10M!!! (crosses fingers)

Fred Lowe
Posted - 2006.12.03 17:07:00 - [2]
 

If you select dock instead of warp to 0, it warps you to 500m or so, which is close enough to insta-dock

Darkcraft
Caldari
KIA Corp
Posted - 2006.12.03 18:18:00 - [3]
 

Not all warp to 0 bring you spot on, on a few warps i've been 1.8km off or just over jump range from a gate which then coasted into range. But then i've had instas that were the same too..

Oleg K77
Posted - 2006.12.03 18:21:00 - [4]
 

No matter you select warp to 0 or dock, in any case you will warp from 0 to 3k from station.

mallina
Caldari
SUNDERING
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2006.12.03 22:20:00 - [5]
 

oh noes, a tiny tiny weeny bit of risk, nerf it immediately

Deikan Frost
Amarr
Posted - 2006.12.03 22:38:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: mallina
oh noes, a tiny tiny weeny bit of risk, nerf it immediately
That's not the point, they made people delete their instas, and some stations are bugged and will not warp you to 0km at all indeed (not all of them though). It's not about nerfing anything now, it's about making it work the way it's supposed to work.

Rule2k
Annihilative Intention.
Red Republic
Posted - 2006.12.03 23:26:00 - [7]
 

but even when u warped to the bookmark u had before kali/revelations. It still didnt put u bang on 15k from the bookmark, whereever it was.

so just take it and Exclamation

Hon Kovell
Gallente
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.12.03 23:32:00 - [8]
 

If there's a station or gate that gives you problems, then make a bookmark at the middle of it and warp to that. Just don't let Valar know there's a new breed of instas or he may cry.

Vor
Posted - 2006.12.04 00:02:00 - [9]
 

Yes, I have faced this problem, and it is far more threatening then not getting to the station to dock. In 0 sectors there are a lot of gates where you fall out away from the gated over 1.8km, on some instances as far as 4km. Some said not a big deal, well it is a big deal if you are in a fight, or running through camp with out bubbles, or when you have inters and recons on your six. It takes a few seconds for ship to come out to stop and then accelerate and move 1km to make a jump. This 1-4 seconds are actually fatal!!!!!!

Any active gang on gates has “instalockers” with sole purpose to capture, tackle, and kill close ranges extremely fast. For them all it takes is 1 second after lock to kill inters, assaults and cruisers, anything slower will not even get a chance to speed up as it will end webbed and die.

Some one said to make back the book marks for faulty gates. Then what is the purpose in eliminating them at all in the first place? If we are to reduce lag, then gates jumps to 0m have to be fixed or people will start making books again, sure not in such great quantities but still, it will be felt.

Moe deLawn
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2006.12.04 01:14:00 - [10]
 

Sigh. Yet another reason (in my big lists of reasons) that I don't want to leave empire space... <sigh>. Imagine trying to get out of 0.0 with a hauler, and you can't insta anymore? Good luck!

Just why are they making it continuously less appealing to do anything? Are there too many peeps in low/zero sec??






Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2006.12.04 01:16:00 - [11]
 

Instas have always been considered abuse anyway. At least that was my impression of it. I'm glad they're gone. I've never used them cause I'm a game designer and a purist. ;)

Tunajuice
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2006.12.04 05:41:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel
Instas have always been considered abuse anyway. At least that was my impression of it. I'm glad they're gone. I've never used them cause I'm a game designer and a purist. ;)


Where do you haul again?

mallina
Caldari
SUNDERING
Zenith Affinity
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:38:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Moe deLawn
Sigh. Yet another reason (in my big lists of reasons) that I don't want to leave empire space... <sigh>. Imagine trying to get out of 0.0 with a hauler, and you can't insta anymore? Good luck!

Just why are they making it continuously less appealing to do anything? Are there too many peeps in low/zero sec?



Erm. fit an AB? make some sacrifices so your ship dosent go so slowly? im sure you and many others would LOVE to travel through lowsec and 0.0 in t1, cargo expanded, unescorted, unscouted haulers with zero risk but theres another word for that, and its called Concensual PVP. EVE is not that and, hopefully, never will be.

algorythm
Minmatar
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.05 01:33:00 - [14]
 

Ok, if you use a hauler so ofthen then make a bookmark of that station so you get insta dock?

The main point on Kali warp to 0 feature imho is to get people to delete gate to gate bookmarks, witch are about 95% of all bookmarks people usually have. So, 5% of all in eve isnt covered, big deal!

Luxo
The Scope
Posted - 2006.12.06 15:14:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Luxo on 06/12/2006 15:15:48
Edited by: Luxo on 06/12/2006 15:15:31
Rolling Eyes

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2006.12.06 16:17:00 - [16]
 

There is a warp in jitter which I believe was put in to stop bumping originally. The jitter is quite small and should be less than jump range and docking range.

From a personal experience then I have for some reason made obscene amount of jumps in the last few days, reckon I've done more than 100 today. Might not seem much to some of you but I don't really travel that far away when I don't have to. Not once has it happened that I couldn't dock or jump immediatly. Not saying your lying or anything but of all the jumps I've made since Revelation was deployed it hasn't happened once which makes me thing its really really rare.

If it is happening then please tell us which gates/stations this is happening with.

SolarKnight
Gallente
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2006.12.06 16:40:00 - [17]
 

Any station using the trust partners model you can't get insta dock, especially with carriers.

Hoshi
Hedron Industries
Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
Posted - 2006.12.06 19:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
There is a warp in jitter which I believe was put in to stop bumping originally. The jitter is quite small and should be less than jump range and docking range.

From a personal experience then I have for some reason made obscene amount of jumps in the last few days, reckon I've done more than 100 today. Might not seem much to some of you but I don't really travel that far away when I don't have to. Not once has it happened that I couldn't dock or jump immediatly. Not saying your lying or anything but of all the jumps I've made since Revelation was deployed it hasn't happened once which makes me thing its really really rare.

If it is happening then please tell us which gates/stations this is happening with.

This is correct for gate jumping, the jitter is like 2.8km in a random direction so here is a very small chance to land outside the 2.5km jump range of a gate and eve if you do it's a very short distance to travel, you will probably slide the final distance from the speed you had out of the warp.

BUT on stations the docking range is not 2.5km but less than 0.5km which means you have close to 50% chance of landing outside it. Increase the docking range on stations to be the same as the jumping range on gates and you solve the problem.

Darthgonzo
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.12.06 20:31:00 - [19]
 

So why not changing the Dockingrange to the same range as Gates (2,5km) ?!
That would Remoce those problems and should not be that hard to change...

I also got some Stations where i have to Fly up to 1km until i could Dock.

Kirov VIII
Posted - 2006.12.06 22:33:00 - [20]
 

This problem happen ...

You can try to dock in somes station and warp to somes gates. Don't work really good.

Try to make Ashab - Jita on short way, there are one or two gate with this bug.

ChronoLynx
Caldari
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:44:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
There is a warp in jitter which I believe was put in to stop bumping originally. The jitter is quite small and should be less than jump range and docking range.

From a personal experience then I have for some reason made obscene amount of jumps in the last few days, reckon I've done more than 100 today. Might not seem much to some of you but I don't really travel that far away when I don't have to. Not once has it happened that I couldn't dock or jump immediatly. Not saying your lying or anything but of all the jumps I've made since Revelation was deployed it hasn't happened once which makes me thing its really really rare.

If it is happening then please tell us which gates/stations this is happening with.


This happens with most Gallente (0.0) Gates and most Gallente (0.0) Stations. If you have high Navigation skills with a Ceptor/Dictor/AnythingsmallerthenaBS it happens quit often. I almost got myself killed by 2 Huginns because of this bug but lucky me I could move the 500m to the gate before I got popped.

Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2006.12.07 03:49:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Darthgonzo
So why not changing the Dockingrange to the same range as Gates (2,5km) ?!
That would Remoce those problems and should not be that hard to change...

I also got some Stations where i have to Fly up to 1km until i could Dock.


Here is the solution, so no need for major testing.

Bam1
Gallente
Department of Defence
Posted - 2006.12.07 04:25:00 - [23]
 

Pretty sad that ccp makes it where we dont need insta's and you guys are still crying like little girls about it

Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.07 05:58:00 - [24]
 

Gallente and Caldari gates are pretty bad about this, as well as Caldari (2?) stations when approached from the "back". Amarr stargates work perfectly since they're basically spherical - and for some reason I haven't had any trouble with Minmatar gates, but I probably fly through an order of magnitude less Minmatar gates than the other three.

I seem to land outside of dock range 1/4 times, its usually within 1km of dock range though...

Selexim
BLIND VENGENCE
Posted - 2006.12.07 06:49:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Selexim on 07/12/2006 06:50:15
Meh, im mostly industry, but i dont mind. This will just mean that i will have to have escorts in Low Sec, and in the end, make it beter for pirates who were getting beat by instas.

Anyways, there should be some risk in going into low sec, and if the warp to 0 really did warp you directly to 0, then there wqould be very little risk (apart from interdictors(sp?))



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2006.12.07 12:20:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
There is a warp in jitter which I believe was put in to stop bumping originally. The jitter is quite small and should be less than jump range and docking range.

From a personal experience then I have for some reason made obscene amount of jumps in the last few days, reckon I've done more than 100 today. Might not seem much to some of you but I don't really travel that far away when I don't have to. Not once has it happened that I couldn't dock or jump immediatly. Not saying your lying or anything but of all the jumps I've made since Revelation was deployed it hasn't happened once which makes me thing its really really rare.

If it is happening then please tell us which gates/stations this is happening with.


Get into an industrial and fill it with cargo expanders I.
See how easily you start (occasionally, about 10% of jumps and docks on average) getting much farther away than gate activation or dock range.

Recluse Viramor
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.07 17:54:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Recluse Viramor on 07/12/2006 17:56:00
Tux, I'm not sure why you haven't encountered the issue but I myself have encountered being as little as 65 meters to nearly 1300 meters away from docking/jumping with warp to 0, more so with docking than on gates.

In each instance I was flying the rokh.

Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
Posted - 2006.12.07 23:11:00 - [28]
 

I like it not to always warp exactly to 0km. That makes the game fun.

Don't change it Devs, please Very Happy

PS: I already lost ships to this (i call it "feature") and as strange as it seems, im not complaining about these losses...

Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar
Ex Coelis
Posted - 2006.12.08 01:36:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
There is a warp in jitter which I believe was put in to stop bumping originally. The jitter is quite small and should be less than jump range and docking range.

From a personal experience then I have for some reason made obscene amount of jumps in the last few days, reckon I've done more than 100 today. Might not seem much to some of you but I don't really travel that far away when I don't have to. Not once has it happened that I couldn't dock or jump immediatly. Not saying your lying or anything but of all the jumps I've made since Revelation was deployed it hasn't happened once which makes me thing its really really rare.

If it is happening then please tell us which gates/stations this is happening with.


I have noticed that in a mammoth or mastodon I seem to have more issues with the warp to 0 for stations. Oddly enough, flying around in the freighter, there were even 1 or two gates where the freighter landed too far out to insta jump!

In the smaller ships there is not such a problem with gates though the stations do occasionally drop me a 1-2k out.

The odd thing with it is that it is not very consistent. For example a corpmate in a hoarder and me in a mammoth warped from one station to dock in another at exactly the same time (I could see her screen). Having the higher skills I got into and out of warp first. She insta-docked and I was left 2.5 kms out from the station and trundled in .

This seems to indicate that jitter is responsible.

On a final note, I like this phenomena as it adds a bit of realism and unpredictability to each trip. It does mean that pirates can camp stations and pick off the odd jitter victim and that seems like a natural thing. Like the way that lions eat the slow and weak from the heard. It is not like gate camping would be with no wapr to 0 and no insta. Where the lions killed everything expect other lions...

That to me is the primary issue of piracy in Eve. There is no subtle edge to it. It tends to be uber kill or no kill. In the real world piracy is often about chance encounters and the culling of the weak or foolish.

Maybe the introduction of an illegal but CONCORD indetectable interdiction sphere launcher with only a 1% (increasable to about 5-10% through skills, implants etc) chance of pulling a player out of warp might be an excellent tool. It would take skill and practice to use them and they might even have a way for limited high sec piracy to happen. Maybe in high sec it might take 3 minutes for CONCORD to scan down the pirates after a successful shot is fired.

Anyway, moving OT a bit.
Mik

Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
House of El
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:31:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ulair Memmet
I like it not to always warp exactly to 0km. That makes the game fun.

Don't change it Devs, please Very Happy

PS: I already lost ships to this (i call it "feature") and as strange as it seems, im not complaining about these losses...


Don't want to just say /Signed, but I really like this "feature". Please leave it in. Don't make the game 100% predictable. Smile


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