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Aki Yamato
Posted - 2006.12.07 19:17:00 - [61]
 

Maybe Rokh will be nerfed some way, but still it will be ship designed for long range combat so it will still bow up sniping mega to pieces at long range...
So you still will have reason for whining ...
And guys dont forget about speed, mass, sig radius, capacitor, armor vs shield tanking ...

Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.12.07 20:00:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Sovereign533 on 07/12/2006 20:01:25
Originally by: NocturnalDeath
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Orin Fatch
/signed
I admit, give caldari pilots a nice fleet ship, but not one that can out range every other current one in game.



Mmmm... I think Moa can outrange every other cruiser in game, Ferox can outrange every other battlecruiser in game. What is your problem exactly?

Caldari is sniping race. They should have good sniper. None whines that Dominix has best drone bay and no other BS in game can match it. Why do you whine about Rokh?

Megathron is NOT a sniping boat. It's a blaster boat. You are using ship in not intended way and you are complaining it's not as good as ship DESIGNED as sniper?

Oh, no other than Rokh BS in game is designed as sniper. It's quite logical Rokh is a best sniper ingame than.


"Caldari is sniping race" oh and
Caldari is ECM race
Caldari is Missle boat race (used to mean more)
Caldari is shield tanking race

Gallente get Drones... The most bugged weapon system there ever was.
Gallente get Blasters... Sweet if I land on top of the guy I might actually win!

Minimatar get Alpha strike... oh wait not anymore, T2 ammo nerf
Minimatar get to train for dual weapon systems... Missiles and projectiles Confused
Minimatar get to train for shield AND armor tanking.. some ships do one, some the other Confused

Amarr get to train Caldari...



plz, all stop whining about the Rokh... it isn't overpowered... it has cr*p dps...
yeah, it has a great damage... and if you cannot hit it... you cannot kill it... but this goes for all sniping ships? if you whine about the Rokh, why don't you whine about the Eagle? cruiser with 196km optimal... CRUISER!!! a cruiser outranging a battleship...

it isn't the problem of the ships... the t2 ammo nerf is a mistake... well, the damage reduction... uhm... maybe... range reduction for sniping ammo... <- MISTAKE...

and don't you think that a ship specialised in something should be better at that then any other ship?

Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.08 03:49:00 - [63]
 

You don't need great DPS when you outrange the entire enemy fleet and have enough ships to kill another BS in 1-2 group volleys.

Rokh is quite overpowered.

The thing that bugs alot of people, however, is that the Caldari (already quite powerful in many respects) got a new role with their t3 BS and no other races did.

Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:56:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Baun
You don't need great DPS when you outrange the entire enemy fleet and have enough ships to kill another BS in 1-2 group volleys.

Rokh is quite overpowered.

The thing that bugs alot of people, however, is that the Caldari (already quite powerful in many respects) got a new role with their t3 BS and no other races did.


I can understand that people are angry or bugged that they didn't get some new shiny ship to fill a specefic role, but I really don't understand why they want to nerf the rokh, it's good at distances but try engaging below 150km and this ship will get severly outdamaged. And it is unable to get even close to the damage the others can dish out at close range. The one I think looks overpowered is the abaddon since it's so godly powerful at ranges up to 200km using aurora or extremely powerful closer using gleam.

I just hope that people would stop being so biased and thinking that ALL fighting in eve is at 200-250 km exactly, which is the only range the Rokh can outdamage anything.

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.12.08 18:18:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 08/12/2006 18:42:15
Originally by: Baun
The thing that bugs alot of people, however, is that the Caldari (already quite powerful in many respects) got a new role with their t3 BS and no other races did.
Yet some people seem to argue that the rokh is the only tier 3 battleship not treading on the role of another ship, whereas it's making all of the formerly viable long range BS redundant in this role. Not to mention the scorp being relegated to skirmishes due to the range limitations of EW, de facto useless against a fleet of rokh (and this alone is a good enough advantage to get all your pilots in such ships).
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
I just hope that people would stop being so biased and thinking that ALL fleet combats in eve won't happen at 200-250 km exactly, which is the only viable range you need to reach in fleet combat once a decent share of the playerbase involved in such combats has got access to a Rokh.
There, fixed it for you Confused

I'm tempted to write it down in caps to get the point clear but here it goes... The range of fleet engagements in Eve is not random, but majorly determined by the characteristics of ammo, modules, skills, and ships and only very marginally determined by the caprices of players.

Seriously, you just can't seem to decide whether it's not overpowered or rightly overpowered. And I bet I can fly the ship better than you already, it's not like I'm jealous or something.

NB.

Aki Yamato
Posted - 2006.12.08 20:42:00 - [66]
 

OMG Galente o Matar BS can fly 2000-4000m per second and nobody is whining about it. And it almost double of maximum speed witch will ever caldari BS fly.

Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2006.12.08 22:10:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Aki Yamato
OMG Galente o Matar BS can fly 2000-4000m per second and nobody is whining about it. And it almost double of maximum speed witch will ever caldari BS fly.

Laughing I almost shot ice tea from my nose.

Aki Yamato
Posted - 2006.12.08 22:31:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: Aki Yamato
OMG Galente o Matar BS can fly 2000-4000m per second and nobody is whining about it. And it almost double of maximum speed witch will ever caldari BS fly.

Laughing I almost shot ice tea from my nose.

You are a whale ?
And dont tell me you never heard about interceptor battleship till now ...

Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.12.09 01:58:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Aki Yamato
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: Aki Yamato
OMG Galente o Matar BS can fly 2000-4000m per second and nobody is whining about it. And it almost double of maximum speed witch will ever caldari BS fly.

Laughing I almost shot ice tea from my nose.

You are a whale ?
And dont tell me you never heard about interceptor battleship till now ...


Mach, nanophoon, i bet the Gallente also have one (or 2)... not even my AF can keep up with them...

Jap theBlind
Minmatar
The Wanderers
Posted - 2006.12.09 03:17:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: NocturnalDeath
I have a 30 man mixed fleet raiding the home system of an enemy, my covops jumps into the system and reports 10 Rokhs and 5 assorted ships sitting off the gate. My covops then maneuvers himself behind the Rokhs so my assorted fleet can jump towards them at their optimal.

My fleet jumps in..

"Whats that destroyer doing rushing at the gate? ITS AN INTERDICTOR DROPPING A BUBBLE!"

So my assorted fleet gets wtfbbq'd by the rokh's that we can't hit, AND we can't warp to our covops cuz we're in the bubbble. :/


This argument is so silly I had to read it twice to see if it was not a joke Shocked

Can you explain how a fleet of Rokhs jumping into an enemy fleet with dictor can reach their optimal while the pathetic Amarr, Gallente and Matari ships tear them apart doing way more damage than any Rokh pilot could ever dream of?

Or are you suggesting Caldari ships are a camper's wet dream?
If so, I'll agree with you that the Rokh needs to lose it's optimal bonus for a damage bonus (Caldari used to have a rail damage bonus on their BS, btw...).
But hey, that would go against the 'range' philosphy of Caldari and would make the Rokh another mega (without the tracking bonus, which makes difference the shield bonus dosn't compensate, not even mentioning the drone bay).

If, ever, we see Rokh fleets, it won't be much different than when Caldari were training Amarr BS, when the megapulses were ruling the world.
Then the nerf will come and another cycle of nerfs/boosts will begin.

Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2006.12.09 05:24:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Sovereign533
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Originally by: Tribunal
Originally by: Aki Yamato
OMG Galente o Matar BS can fly 2000-4000m per second and nobody is whining about it. And it almost double of maximum speed witch will ever caldari BS fly.

Laughing I almost shot ice tea from my nose.

You are a whale ?
And dont tell me you never heard about interceptor battleship till now ...


Mach, nanophoon, i bet the Gallente also have one (or 2)... not even my AF can keep up with them...


Yes, because these are effective fleet ships Rolling Eyes. I can make a Raven go ~2500 m/s with full nanos and a micro warpdrive tech 2, but who the hell cares? There is a reason you do not see fleets of nano-X battleships flying around, I will leave you on your own to figure out why.

Commander Stringer
Caldari
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.12.09 12:15:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Lucian Corvinus
I don't really know what this is about. Are you comparing this ship with the megathrons range??

Afaik caldari have always been about range, and that is why they don't have a single high damage uber closerange weapon. Atleast thats what I hear from every gallente blaster ship user, "caldari has range and lower damage, gallente have closerange and uberwtfbbq damage".

Agreed, about time Caldari had a range bird when before hand we were getting our asses handed to us by T2 Howie fitted tempests. If u get up close on a Rohk its dead, got my ass handed to me several times by gallente brutix class wtfbbqpwnedmasterblaster command ship thingies. Get a nos on a rohk and its tank dies but i did have an interesting experience on SiSi with a guy fitting 4 T2 heavy nos and 3 blasters to a rohk tanking it heavily then pwning mine in no time at all.
Or did I miss the pointRazz

AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
Druuge Crimson Corporation
Posted - 2006.12.09 12:58:00 - [73]
 

So people are figureing out out DPS isn't the end-all-be-all now? Or did someone run into a few AXE nubs flying Rokhs?

As things stand now the Rokh is the only fleet BS that can both have an optimal well beyond 200km and be fitted in such a way that it can survive a Avatar's DD blast before touching rigs. Quite sexy.

Aramis Wyler
Caldari
The Praxis Initiative
FREGE Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.12 18:14:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Aramis Wyler on 12/12/2006 18:14:42
Originally by: Jap theBlind
Originally by: NocturnalDeath
I have a 30 man mixed fleet raiding the home system of an enemy, my covops jumps into the system and reports 10 Rokhs and 5 assorted ships sitting off the gate. My covops then maneuvers himself behind the Rokhs so my assorted fleet can jump towards them at their optimal.

My fleet jumps in..




This argument is so silly I had to read it twice to see if it was not a joke Shocked

Can you explain how a fleet of Rokhs jumping into an enemy fleet with dictor can reach their optimal while the pathetic Amarr, Gallente and Matari ships tear them apart doing way more damage than any Rokh pilot could ever dream of?


It's a shame you didn't read it a third time... some of it might have actually sunken in. He clearly specified his group jumping into a group of pre-positioned rokhs defending their own home system.

B00merang
Posted - 2006.12.12 18:59:00 - [75]
 

I'm gallente with kick ass rail skills.

This is no problem for me. Wink
In about 14 days I got Caldari BS V, because I started training Caldari ships
when I say the insane imballance here.

Give me 1 reason *not* to train Caldari BS when they got the best
rail ship out there and I already got tons of rail skills.
Also, like 75% of the Caldari pilots I know has dropped missile training and
jumped on the rail skills. Probably because the Rohk is a useless ship. Rolling Eyes

Now, what am I going to do with that crap load of drone-skills which used
to be a threat in any engagement ugh


Ciara Daag
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2006.12.13 01:38:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Morris Falter
This is a ridiculous thing to have in the game.

Outranging T2 high-SP pilots with T1 guns and nubie characters is leaving a number of people clueless as to what CCP are thinking with this item in game. What is the reason for having this? I don't see how the game benefits, and can see a lot of ways it detracts.

To those who say, range is unimportant, "why cant you have theoretical Covops warp you in close range", "your tactics are useless", "its dps is low", "why dont you just train caldari" and all the other gloating from the k3w1 1n3z - get a clue. Fleet battles are a dirty business. Asking your enemy to sit still while you get in position during skirmishes does not ever happen. If you have already spent months on training BS5, Large Specialisations 5 etc etc retraining is a joke. This penalises high-SP characters who have to use expensive and hard to find mods to achieve less, based on a change we knew nothing about when starting on a racial specialisation.

Thanks guys.

I can understand what CCP were thinking with reducing the T2 ammo effects. T2 battleships are inbound - the changes in this context are clear.

However - rokhs are 100% unbalanced, and effectively laugh at people who have trained hard on tactics, skillpoints and technique to make a difference.


So now that I have your attention, what can be done? I have no idea. I'm still a bit stunned that this gigantic fubar made it past the reality check.

I'm a fan of the other changes - and congrats to CCP for the smooth deployment. I do like the game, honestly.. Cool but, guys, what the hell...



Ever fit out a sniping scorp with cruise missiles? I dont see a problem with a rohk.

Tasith
Posted - 2006.12.14 18:49:00 - [77]
 

I am getting fed up witrh idiot complaining it either OMG caldari suck or OMG caldari PWN ffs STOP MOANING LIKE BABIES

the rokh is a sniper its get at long range but absolouyte rubish with rails ast close range - the whole point in this games it not to complain till everything suti your style of fighting but to adapt why not use a group of stealth cruisers gte close to tghe rokh and pwn it

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.12.14 21:23:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 14/12/2006 21:24:40
Edit: nevermind.

NB.

Dixon
Caldari
Hells Donkeys
Posted - 2006.12.14 21:49:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Dixon on 14/12/2006 21:49:12
Originally by: DriveCrash
t2 fitted mega with loads of skills, 150km to do some damage.
t1 fitted rokh with **** skills, 200km doing wtf damage.

I got sniped at 240km like i was getting hit by a blaster boat. Why? because the $&# had lead loaded. I asked him about it.. He said "anything over lead puts my optimal further than i can target due to 250km target cap" .. nice.

why dont we just delete all non-caldari flying pilots now and get it over with?

To the devs: Please stop playing caldari.


Well one of you is lying. A maxed out rokh pilot using 3 tracking computers and lead charges isn't going to shoot much farther than 160km, and even then it does much less damage than a megathron. A maxed out megathron's optimal range is around 185km (w/spike and 3 tracking comps). A rokh will out-range a mega (w/spike) with tungsten charges but will be dealing less than 250dps, hardly "like getting hit by a blaster boat".

But aside from that I think the rokh needs to be looked at. But not because of the range, I couldn't care less about that. It has too many damn launchers, making it a very effective nos/tanking/missile-boat... a solo-pwnmobile.

The Armin
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.14 22:39:00 - [80]
 

1 Rokh doesn't matter much, it's when you get 10 of em doing hit and runs it starts getting annoying.

Warp in at cov op, shoot two bs, warp out
Warp in at cov op, shoot two more bs, warp out

blabla

can't u see that the only effective counter to a rokh is having more rokhs ? or u need to dampen em to hell and back wich i fear we'll see a lot more of :(

Naughty Boy
Chronics of ordinary hate
Posted - 2006.12.14 23:23:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Naughty Boy on 15/12/2006 00:02:32
Originally by: The Armin
or u need to dampen em to hell and back wich i fear we'll see a lot more of :(
Damps, as any other EW for that matter, do not work in any practical way past 200-220km. Arbitrator/Pilgrim/Curse/Celestis/Lachesis/Arazu do not have any damp/tracking disruptor range bonus, and even specialized ships with ECM range bonuses do not have an high enough range to be reliable counters.

NB.

Solant
Minmatar
C A P S U L E
Posted - 2006.12.15 03:40:00 - [82]
 

Morris: Could you cry some more? Or do you forget the mainstay of this entire game- evolve or die.

Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.12.15 10:01:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Solant
Morris: Could you cry some more? Or do you forget the mainstay of this entire game- evolve or die.


here, take a cookie... relax... and tell us something more constructive ^_^

Miss KillSome
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2006.12.15 11:02:00 - [84]
 

It is inline with caldari politics on range, but a little to much range was implemented.. i think that max range or their normal t2 fitted rokh should be maximum range that lets say megathron could achieve with maxed up skills and best t2/officier fittings..

they just gave caldari a best fleet ship, while they already have best PVE ship (raven and drake).

I am all gallente, but i started to train caldari BS, why waste those trained points in large railguns spec if i can use them better?

in fleets dmg is not so important then staying alive, range is best weapon for staying alive..

Sarf
Spacelane Logistics
Posted - 2006.12.15 18:01:00 - [85]
 

so are you saying a rohk with T2 weapons and ammo is less powerfull than a rohk with T1 weapons and ammo, don't see how that is possible..

Asariasha
Caldari
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.12.16 03:10:00 - [86]
 

It's still funny to read the myth of only-Rokh fleets ^^

1vs1:

Rokh will outrange other ships, just like a Merlin, Moa, Eagle, Ferox will do within it's ship class while the opponent will
always be able to warp out due to Rokhs low alpha
Rokh will be outdamaged when it comes to close-mid ranged fights.
In close-ranged combat the Rokh won't even be able to warp out
due to warpjamming while on medium-ranged fight it might warp
out.

----> well balanced

FleetBattles:

If there was a Rokh-only fleet it would be limited to only
extreme longrange combat meaning the fleet has to warp every
few minutes to another spot for not to be caught by a covert
which delivers a warp-in. Also the dmg on extreme long range
will be low so that attacked ships might be repaired by logistic
drones + remote reppers until you reach a critical amount of
Rokhs shooting on one target.

Because currently there are NO Rokh-only fleets and the fact
that an Amarr/Minmatar skilled pilot wont train up Hybrid +
Railgun skills/specs that fast, Rokh pilots WILL HAVE to align
to the majority of their fleet flying in Apoc, Geddon, Tempest, Megathron.

Complaining about the Rokhs opti-range bonus would be like
complaining about other races dmg bonus or the Drone bonus
on Domis.
Maybe some of you guys should just take a look onto the whole.

Greets
Asa

Doppler Shift
Posted - 2006.12.16 04:47:00 - [87]
 

OH FFS!!!

What did you expect???

Caldari is the RANGE RACE... They are the RAILGUNS race. They are SUPPOSED to have the BEST range in the game. Or did you want GALLENTE the Blaster masters to have the best range?

They Are Supposed To Outrange Everybody And Outrun Nobody.

What is the point of this thread???
Cry me a river. This ship should have been built earlier...
Nerf? Sure, whatever...
It should still be the absolutely best ranged platform because Caldari Are Snipers. All Their Railgun Ships Are The Best Ranged In Their Category.

Spelling it slowly so that yo can understand.

So, YES it is THE BEST FLEETSHIP. By far.

It is called a ROLE. See? such an easy word.

And for all those funny guys that first mention ECM and then Fleets.

What should we say then about sensor dampeners and fleet battles? That EACH DAMPENER FITTED IS A BATTLESHIP OUT OF THE PICTURE OMG WTF NERFNERF DAMPNERZZZ PLZZ????

Roles. It is just some people are so preoccupied whining that cannot see their own strengths. Sad. Of course, it just makes for easy kills for those that do.

Kind of reminds me of people crying about minmatar being the worst while the Vaga is the most sought-out ship in the game and Amarr are training autocannons. Sadder...

Get over it

Rezerwowy Pies
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.16 11:32:00 - [88]
 

Caldari always have best thing, and future will be the same :]

Kotori
Gallente
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2006.12.16 11:46:00 - [89]
 

Dont worry, someday it will go along the same route as my poor poor typhoon and lose its bonus for something else :(.
I know not many people agree with me, but i miss my 10% optimal on my typhoon :(. I loved being able to hit at well over locking range with tremor :(. Poor thing

TheFirstInquisitor
Posted - 2006.12.16 11:59:00 - [90]
 

/sighned

The Caldari do need a railship BS, but this is too far. Im glad I can fly the thing and beat those with higher SP, but wheres the fun in that? Perhaps if they give it a -20% static special bonus and +10 tracking speed or something as a static bonus?


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