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Myrtle Jones
Posted - 2006.12.02 07:55:00 - [1]


I'm pretty new to Eve - been playing for about 3 weeks now. I've just had my cruiser totalled by a frigate in 0.4 space for the second time. The first time I was a complete noob idiot (I didn't even realise I was being attacked by a player).

This time however I saw him on the scanner the second he arrived, and I would like to know how the hell he was able to do what he did. He started 34km away, but within a matter of seconds he was 2-3km range. I was warp jammed of course but had far more armour/shields (I had a Moa, he had a Rifter) so thought I'd probably be able to take him. I had 3 mobs on me but even with all their attention and the player (and my med shield booster on) I clearly had some time. So I put all my weapons on him (2 heavy widowmake missiles, 2 med rail guns (which I know wouldn't hit him at that range but might as well use them) and 2 small rail guns with the max damage/shortest range ammo.

I hardly touched him.

I lasted a good minute or more and at the point I was destroyed he had at least half his shieleds left. I used to have a rifter and even if nothing but my 2 rail guns with the max damage ammo were hitting him they should have done more damage than that.

I can only assume that he had equipment I don't know about.

So if anyone could enlighten me as to how he not just defeated me, but absoluted crushed my cruiser with his frigate I would very much appreciate it. Not sure how much longer I'm going to play the game if I can't step out of 0.5-1 space without losing my ship. PvP is the most important part of a game for me, but I need help in understanding the equipment I need to use.

Thank you for any help you can throw my way

Myrtle Jones

G-Force Enterprises
Posted - 2006.12.02 08:00:00 - [2]

He approached you because he more than likely had a MWD. It is a microwarp drive. It increases your velocity AT LEATS five-fold. However, it lowers your cap by 25% and increases your sig by five-fold as well. Still, it is very useful.

You could use a webber or two on him to slow him down to a crawl at which point your medium weapons would have had an easier time hitting him.

Generally, the bigger the missile, the less damage it will do to smaller targets. So a heavy missile may not do as much damage as a standard missile (depends on missile and skill and other factors as well).

He may have had 3 x AC, 1 x rocket in hi. Web, scram, MWD in mid. And lo either armor tank or speed tank or gank... or a mix of the three.

Best bet is to try to find practice with a person so you can get used to your cruiser versus other players. I do not fly Moa's so I would not know where to start in giving advice. I do fly a rifter however and I tend to gank / speed tank it.

Posted - 2006.12.02 08:04:00 - [3]

Micro Warp Drive for the speed, and I assume that he maintained transversal velocity high enough that you could not hit him. The short of it is this...if you are in a cruiser & flying solo in low sec, always fit a stasis webifier.

Mercurialis Inc.
Posted - 2006.12.02 08:16:00 - [4]

You need to join a corporation with some veteran players that can help you learn PVP as soon as possible.

Check out the recruitment section of these forums and see if you can find a suitable candidate.

Phelan Lore
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.12.02 08:23:00 - [5]

An AC rifter likely does more damage than your Moa. Very Happy

Tyler Lowe
Brotherhood of the Spider
Posted - 2006.12.02 08:28:00 - [6]

He used a microwarp drive to get in on top of you fast, where he knew your guns would not be able to hit him. Missiles make two checks against a target to determine how much damage they do. they check their explosion velocity against the target's speed, and they check their explosion radius against the target's signature. If the target is smaller than the explosion radius or the target is moving faster than your missile's explsion velocity then the damage is reduced. Depending on how large the difference is, you could end up doing only a couple of points of damage to him.

As a genral observation, when you saw a hostile frigate entering system, if you did not have a stasis webifier, warp disruptor/scrambler, and (preferably) nos equiped, there really was no chance for you to "take him". The best you could hope for in such a situation, was to force him to withdraw and hope he did not return with friends. Without these standard PvP mods equiped, you were doomed to fail from the get go. Also, if you intended to fight him (assuming he would not simply run away if he started to lose), the dps from the npc's was another nail in the coffin. When you made the choice to fight, you should have selected a better location for it. Warp away from the spawn you were working, and force him to breal your tank on his own.

You did some things right (watching local, fighting with everything you had once it was on), but if another such situation were to arise, I would suggest getting into a safespot until he gets bored and moves on, or simply safe up and log. Unless you are fitted to actually take someone on PvP, there is little point to doing anything else.

Dryxonedes Sae
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.12.02 08:48:00 - [7]

Moa is a long range cruiser, realistically won't operate inside of 30k's. As someone else pointed out, he was likely hitting more dps than you were. Having even frigate rails fitted (which IMO is a very bad idea, if your grid suffers on 250's, throw 200's on) you won't hit a frigate orbiting in scramble range anyway (a webber will get you hits occasionally, but even then rarely).

Notch it down to experience at the end of the day, 2 cruisers in 3 weeks isn't a horrible attrition rate for someone who's only just begun playing. Frustrating though i do admit. I'd have to say i'm happy to see your not loosing battleships at this early point :).

Advice i would offer for the future would be this, keep up the smart work (monitoring local), when someone suspicious enters the system, ensure you are aligned. Being aligned gives you essentially god mode (outside a lag bomb). if they drop into your belt, take a quick judgement on their intentions. Are they -5 or lower sec status, bail fast, are they within 30k's, bail fast, are they outside 30k, but approaching, bail. Some folks advocate leaving the belt immediately when someone enters, but given not every man and his dog are pirates, I feel that much "caution" is unnecessary.

There always comes the opportunity to fight, but i'd never try to advise someone on that, you will know yourself when that time comes. Long rave over, I think your question has already been answered by others, being you were attacked by a close range fitted frigate, while flying a mid-long range cruiser, recipe for disaster.

Myrtle Jones
Posted - 2006.12.02 10:10:00 - [8]

Thank you all for the speedy response - lots of good info. I know about all of the equipment people mentioned except Tyler mentioned "nos". Can anyone tell me what that's short for/what it does?

Thanks again

Myrtle Jones

Ragnar forumwarrior
Posted - 2006.12.02 10:13:00 - [9]

Nosferatu. It drains cap from the target and add it to your own

Wild Rho
Silent Core
Posted - 2006.12.02 10:15:00 - [10]

Just remember, in Eve bigger is not better but rather, use the right tools for the job.

United Systems of the Allegiance
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2006.12.02 11:06:00 - [11]

Originally by: Wild Rho
Just remember, in Eve bigger is not better but rather, use the right tools for the job.

Ironically, this applies to just about every situation except for what the poster above you mentioned: NOS.

Art of War
Cult of War
Posted - 2006.12.02 11:26:00 - [12]

Yeah, NOS is more or less i-win-button atm. Use it, as frequently as possible.

Also, you will find that in the early stages, missiles are much easier to use and operate effectivelly than hybrids. If u insist on flying a cruiser, buy a Caracal, equip with maybe a mixture of light/heavy missiles using them on frigs/cruisers respectivelly. Also pack 2 small drones.

If u're into pvp you'll find a web helps alot, specially against small targets, a nos as said is god mode Very Happy, and and of course u need a scram, else you target will just leave if he's loosing.

Emperor D'Hoffryn
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2006.12.02 11:32:00 - [13]

moa has a drone bay, with room for 3 lights. these alone could have driven away a tech1 frig. So look up drones.

Next, moa can be fitted with blasters. blaster moa with web, at least 1 medium nos, and some drones can make quick work of any frig that comes into range, including close range interceptors.

I killed an omen in a merlin. few days later, i came across an omen while i was in a harpy, and the omen won. If you know what you are doing, alot can change.

Mazare Mircea
Posted - 2006.12.02 11:39:00 - [14]

Edited by: Mazare Mircea on 02/12/2006 11:41:15
When i was 5 days old in EVE i took my 60% insured Celestis in Onne, a 0.4 to do ratting. I had 1 stab, but got jumped by a rifter with a scrambler - another piece of advice is never to stay near the jump-in point. The pilot was -9.9 and was 1+ months old.
I had 2 assault launchers, armor tank, and medium rails - no webber or nos and had no ideea how to use the drone bay. Obviously he chewed me to pieces but in the end he let me go ... :)

Take the advice you were given so far, like fitting a webber - the 86.5% one is 500k, a medium nos if possible and use a Caracal.
Also, if you rat Serpentis in that ship, you can do it quite effectively in a frig, this way you can learn how that guy did what he did.

Also use the drone bay, both the Moa and the caracal have one.
If you still want to use the Moa, learn about how to minimize transversal - webb him and then move away from him which is called kitting, so you're guns can deal more damage. Using dual 150's instead of 250's is also a solution.

Thor Ba'aleron
First Flying Wing Inc
Posted - 2006.12.02 18:01:00 - [15]

Welcome to Eve. I'm a caldari pilot as well, and had the same types of questions when I started back in 2004. Here's a few tips that might help you in the future.

1) Ditch the Moa. It's really a bad ship for new players, given that you need both missile and gun skills to fit it out. It's also not an especially good ratting ship, as missiles are far superior in all PVE situations. For PVP, the Moa is a sniper, and will generally have trouble with frigs and such. If you can fly a Moa, you are pretty damn close to the Ferox and Drake, at least skill-wise. The Drake is more expensive, and better, but the old missile-Ferox fits will work just fine for you at under 2mil SPs.

2) Drones. Drones are your friends, and the Ferox's 4 heavies are more than enough to own any tech 1 frig. I believe the Drake fits 5 lights, which is just as good against a small target like a rifter. Get to drones 4/5 ASAP, you will need them for frig killing in PVE as well.

3) If you want to PVP, go PVP. If you want money, run missions. It's almost impossible to get PK'd running missions, even in 0.1 space. I wouldn't bother fitting PVP gear on agent running ships, I'd just get a blackbird and use that for your PVP. If a pirate enters local, dock and either refit or grab a pvp ship. Then head into a belt and wait for him to attack.

Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
Posted - 2006.12.02 18:52:00 - [16]

Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron
3) If you want to PVP, go PVP. If you want money, run missions. It's almost impossible to get PK'd running missions, even in 0.1 space.

Not anymore, sorry. You can now scan down...

Posted - 2006.12.02 19:40:00 - [17]

I remember when that happened to me once as well when i was a noob - i just got my first cruiser, think it was a Celestis or Moa. I was engaged by a frigate too, and of course i got ****d. I was stunned and amazed how my big mean cruiser could get such a beating from a little tiny frigate, i thought that biggest ship = win. It turned out though that this ship was an AF and not a standard one, and maybe that was what happened to you aswell. I didnt really check his info so what for me looked like a merlin was really the AF-version of it.

Breed Love
Posted - 2006.12.02 21:50:00 - [18]

There are no mobs in eve..

Symb Everway
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.12.02 21:55:00 - [19]

Originally by: Breed Love
There are no mobs in eve..

What the, uh, "gentleman" means here is that in Eve we call them "rats," which is short for "pirates." But note that pirates and rats generally don't mean the same thing. Pirates in Eve are real people, like the guy that killed you. :)

Kelgen Thann
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.02 22:24:00 - [20]

One thing you will find is named Medium Noses cost a lot! I also find that when fighting a Frig I use 1 Medium Unstable Energy Neutralizer. Way cheaper, bit higher fitting reqs, but hurts frigs a lot more.

This uses your cap but will kill his faster as the frig has a smaller capacitor, and a MWD decreases it again. If you suck his cap completely dry his tank fails and his mwd shuts off, his webber shuts off, so does his warp disruptor.

You can then run, or keep the neut on him, make him run or have your weapons hit him due to his low speed. You still will do poor DPS in close range but you will probably make him warp off.

Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2006.12.02 22:25:00 - [21]

Very Happyat Raxxans post and I was kinda wondering the same thing, when I was like two weeks old ina Rifter I was looking for a fight and jumped in on what looked to my newb brain to be an atron, thought it'd be a fun fight, turns out it was an Ares and i got pwnd. Lesson learned. the guy was nice enough to help a newb out and explain what was goin on, but i was kinda wondering if your rifter might not have been like a Wolf.

Joseph Polaski
Posted - 2006.12.02 22:41:00 - [22]

Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn
moa has a drone bay, with room for 3 lights. these alone could have driven away a tech1 frig. So look up drones.

Next, moa can be fitted with blasters. blaster moa with web, at least 1 medium nos, and some drones can make quick work of any frig that comes into range, including close range interceptors.

I killed an omen in a merlin. few days later, i came across an omen while i was in a harpy, and the omen won. If you know what you are doing, alot can change.

Was it my Omen that wrecked your harpy? I just beat one within the past week or 2.

Posted - 2006.12.03 00:10:00 - [23]

Fit a webber and a medium nosferatu (or 2).

You will neveer loose to frigate like this, 2 nos will drain them to the point they cant even use the warp jammer. Ther web makes them an easy target.

trust me, ive done a bit of frigate pirating in the past - thats the only thing that works 100% :)

Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.12.03 00:53:00 - [24]

and thats when he runs into a battleship p-rat lol

Posted - 2006.12.03 02:36:00 - [25]

No well fit cruiser should ever lose from a frig, T2 or not :D.

My maller can tank any Inty, frig or AF permanently, and it's web + small lasers will obliterate them.

My setup for PVP is:

High slots:

X2 deminishing medium NOS
X4 Small Tech II lasers

Med slots:

X1 web
X1 Scrambler
X1 Cap recharger (I don't believe in injectors outside of pure fleet sniping, i hate the cargo they require)

Low slots:

EANM +20% to all
Kin hardener II
Exp hardener II
Therm Hardener II
Medium Armor rep II
1600 plate

This setup can run the tank and lasers permanently, and with all armor comp skills at IV and cruiser at V all my resists are over 80. Even HACs have problems with this setup, unless they are maxed.

In fact, i honestly doubt even a 40m+ SP AF with all officer fittings could realisticly take this f*cker down. The NOS is just murderous, the web + small guns destroy frigs, the tank is enough to tank sentries for over 5 minutes.

Cruisers are some very skill dependant ships. At low SP, a cruiser is nothing more than a slow, more hp frigate.

Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.03 02:43:00 - [26]

Edited by: Hllaxiu on 03/12/2006 08:01:51
Originally by: Breed Love
There are no mobs in eve..

It would be more accurate to say that all "mobs" in eve are refered to as "rats". His usage of the word mob was just the first indication of how new he was to the game. Wink

To the OP: Use a Caracal - it'll be much more useful at ratting and missions.

Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.03 03:11:00 - [27]

Are you sure it wasn't a Jaguar or Wolf?

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.12.03 05:34:00 - [28]

Drop the Moa for a Caracal.

Fit 1-2 large extenders, assault missile launchers, and some hardeners.

Wait for rifter to come in range.

click F1-F5.

Wait a few seconds.

Loot Rifter's wreck.Wink

Carrying a web on your moa would help your bigger guns hit smaller ships better, however without missile skills like target precision/nav prediction at lvl 4 or 5, heavy missiles will be very sucky vs frigs, espeically minmatar frigs.

Myrtle Jones
Posted - 2006.12.03 09:30:00 - [29]

Wow - lots of help. Shame I didn't read about how unsuitable the Moa was for me before buying a new one :P. Oh, well, it's fully insured so maybe I'll just strip it and let a 'rat' (see, I'm learning) kill me. I've been spreading points over guns and missiles, maybe I'll just get a caracal and concentrate on missiles instead.

The nos sounds very useful - will have to look into that. I did have a webber fitted, but sadly due to my noob status it was hitting one of the rats for most of the fight.

Thanks again - love the community in this game :)

Myrtle Jones

Trinity Nova
Posted - 2006.12.03 12:12:00 - [30]

Remember also that just webbing him probably isnt enough. If you are still finding you are not hitting him (much), he is probably too close by. So fly your ship manually away from him, getting some range. This will allow your turrets to hit him better.


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