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blankseplocked [Trinity] The Complete Miner's Guide - version 2.2 [PDF, 64 pages]
 
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Mattif2k3
Gallente
Pretty Good Piracy
Posted - 2007.02.20 10:58:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Tolomea
Your ice mining gang boost calculations are somewhat misleading.

You claim that the gang bonuses increase you from 11 cycles an hour to 15, a bonus of 4 cycles. Which appears to be a bonus of 36%

In reality it goes from 11.35 to 14.64 an increase of 3.29 Which is a fair bit closer to 3 than 4 and is exactly 29% the same as with ore mining.
both are "correct". he just look at he cycles / hour ratio and you looked at the exact numbers.
probably halada will take the exact numbers for the next version, once he will work on thi sguide again Sad

Chen Chura
Posted - 2007.02.21 07:52:00 - [122]
 

With Regards to the Mining Foreman Mindlink:
Arrowthe Highwall HX-2 and Michi Excavations each give a net bonus of 5% to mining.

ArrowThe mind link gives a 50% bonus on the mining foreman skill which is 10% at level 5... so the mining foreman modifier increases from 1.1 to 1.15 which is only a net gain of 4.545% to your mining yeild.. this is of course not taking any mindlink moduals into account since thoese can only be equiped on BC's and Command/Capital ships.

IdeaIf you have a choice between the Highwall HX-2 and the Mining Foreman Mindlink you should go for the Highwall's consistant 5% bonus vs the situational 4.545% bonus from the mindlink, assuming you are already normally getting the 10% mining foreman bonuse from being squadron commander.Idea

Alexoin
Posted - 2007.02.21 21:32:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Gnord
Ok, I've searched your guide, the forums, the web in general, and I still cannot find any significant calculation, hypothesis, or explanation on how the volatility on crystals works.

If it's out there, I've searched and searched for it, and I just can't find it.

SO,

Let's start with a veldspar mining crystal.

Volatility: 0.1%
Volatility Damage: 0.025
Crystals Damage: 1

I'm trying to figure out how long a particular crystal will last. Nobody I've talked to has a real definite answer, and certainly no kind of formula or calculation. Your guide has much more information on crystals than I've seen anywhere else, but of course it still lacks this one detail.

Further explanation on this would be great, thanks.

G'nord


I think this is how it works:)

The volatility means that the crystal has a 0.1% chance that it will take damage (ie 1 in 1000). This is tested at the start of a cycle.
The volatility damage of 0.025 is the amount of damage the crystal takes whenever it takes damage (due to volatility)
If you look at a crystal that is equipped you can see how much damage it has taken. When the damage reaches 1.0 the crystal will explode at the end of the cycle.

Note I am not sure that the volatility is right though, from experience it seems that it is more like 1 in 10 (0.1 or 10%) that the crystal takes damage.

Shitaki Intaki
Posted - 2007.02.22 18:59:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: ****aki Intaki on 22/02/2007 19:43:50
Tech 1
Volitility 0.1
Volitility damage 0.025
Crystal damage 1.0

Using an approximatly binomial distribution:
Assuming the crystal has a 0.1 chance (10%) of taking damage each cycle
And that the crystal is destroyed after taking damage 40 times

Then, where n = lifetime of crystal in cycles
Mode ………………………........ 399
Median ……………….……....... 405
Mean…………………….…........ 409
Standard Deviation……….... 60.75
Variance ………………….......3690

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tech 2
Volitility 0.2
Volitility damage 0.05
Crystal damage 1.0

Using an approximatly binomial distribution:
Assuming the crystal has a 0.2 chance (20%) of taking damage each cycle
And that the crystal is destroyed after taking damage 20 times

Then, where n = lifetime of crystal in cycles
Mode ………………………........... 99.5
Median ……………….……........ 102
Mean…………………….…......... 104
Standard Deviation………..... 20.49
Variance …………………......... 420

ferite
Posted - 2007.02.24 21:54:00 - [125]
 

Lots of work thanks

Sexorella hotz
SexyCor
Posted - 2007.02.24 23:13:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Rumbaar
Still a great guide.

I just wanted to point out in section 4 you don't really compare apples with apple in regards to how low the Retriever truly is compared to a Battleship for yield and protection.

With the battleships you use the skill levels Mining 4 and Astro 4 but for the Retriever you use Mining 5 and Astro 5 (which is around a 19D+ skill to get too) for the yield, also you use Barge 4 instead of 3 for the calculations.

So the true comparison for a person as about that level of training in mining would be Mining 4, Astro 4 and Barge 3.
540 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.09 * 1.05 = 889.96 m3/cycle
Omber 889.96/0.6 = 1483 to 59,320 (Barge 4 only give additional 1640 units) unit of Omber per hour which is way below the Dominix's 65,880 units per hour. So the Retriever is actually the least yield of the bunch in the section.

Or if you want to look at it another way and take the Dominix with the same stat as used for the Retriever in the guide it would gives you 71,640 Omber units per hour. Once again far above the Retriever.

The only benefit of a Retriever is it's price, and if needed Ice Harvesters. But it fall way behind the Dominix and Apoc for yield (in apples for apples comparison) and tankability.


But you have to clicky more!! That's not acceptable. Actually I think he's assuming that if you have a retriever your going to be training in the direction of the covetor, but yeah, if you werent then maybe you are correct and the domi is the better option. Not crunching the numbers myself, i leave that to halada:)

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.02.26 21:54:00 - [127]
 


Riley Craven
Caldari
Raata Invicti
Reckoning.
Posted - 2007.03.02 06:05:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Riley Craven on 02/03/2007 06:02:00
Originally by: Shreddy Krueger

For 0.0 of course the Rokh is the best choice as the Apoc cannot fit a tank when going on full mining setup.


Actually on this point you are dead wrong. Consider the following fit

highs
8x DCM II

Meds
4x Ecutic Cap charger

Lows
3x t2 cpu
1x MLU
1x Large Accom armor rep
1x DB Therm hardner
1x DB EM hardner

Granted its hvly tanked to deal with amar dmg dealing rats, but as you can see this is a tank and mining setup, will tank most bs spawns in fact. The rep and laser and hardners run forever and your cap is steady around around 30-40%.

Course at this point I should mention I have perfect fitand cap skills to make this setup work on cpu.

Saint Bubba
Minmatar
Asshats and Alcoholics
Minuit.
Posted - 2007.03.04 17:50:00 - [129]
 

Amazing guide, good job :D

Grimarm
Posted - 2007.03.05 05:40:00 - [130]
 

great guide

dsN Ninja
Caldari
Avatars of Might
Posted - 2007.03.07 07:11:00 - [131]
 

Absolutely Amazing. GEE GEE NO RE!

Okt
Posted - 2007.03.07 12:42:00 - [132]
 

Very nice guide, it helped me out a lot.

Thank you.

Garek Selwonk
Gallente
UK Corp
Rare Faction
Posted - 2007.03.27 20:58:00 - [133]
 

Just wanna say thanks for this amazin guide.
Thanks So Much!

Imuran
Zentor Industries
Posted - 2007.03.27 23:41:00 - [134]
 

Just to say good luck Halada and thanks for this guide

Chitah
Gallente
New European Regiment
Blade.
Posted - 2007.03.28 01:13:00 - [135]
 

great guide...Congrats for the job well done Very Happy

I have 1 question regarding the Dominix and Hyperion:
Dominix: "Special Ability: ...and 10% to hitpoints bonus and damage per skill level"

Does this damage stack at Mining drones? If yes then possibly with Gallente BS4 using T2 drones and DCM2 w/ crystals will outperform the Arma.

I haven't seen many talks about the hyperion which also has 8 turret slots. It has more base Capacity and a slightly better cap recharge then the rokh. Wouldn't the hyperion be better than the rokh?

Gnord
Posted - 2007.03.29 01:21:00 - [136]
 

The first post no longer has a file behind the link. I wanted to reference it for a particular detail but it is lost! Does anybody have another copy they'd upload and make available?

Tybr
Posted - 2007.03.30 21:16:00 - [137]
 

Thank you very much Halada!

The guide was excatly what a noob like myself needed.

Very Happy

Soet Flicka14
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2007.04.03 18:21:00 - [138]
 

Great guide!

I have one question though, anyone please feel free to answer. My skiff has a yield of 2470.7m3 / 40 = 61 Mercoxit every 3 minutes (without Mining Laser Upgrades, 2723.9m3 with). Now, according to this guide a maxed out Hulk pilot should use the following formula to calculate the Skiffs yield; 250*1.25*1.25*1.15*1.15*4*1.05*1.375*1.05^2 = 3289.17 m3/cycle, 3289.17/40 = 82 Mercoxit every 3 minutes. Could someone please interpret this forumla into skills? i.e fill in the blanks/question signs. 250(MDCSM2 Base Yield)*1.25(Mining lvl 5)*1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5)*1.15(?)*1.15(?)*4(?)*1.05(?)*1.375(?)*1.05^2(?) = 3289.17. Cause I see myself as a "maxed out hulk pilot" but apparently I'm not, so I want to know what I'm missing.

Again, great guide Halada, thanks! and I would be very grateful if someone could give an answer to this post.

Bowlance
Posted - 2007.04.03 19:22:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Riley Craven
Edited by: Riley Craven on 02/03/2007 06:02:00
Originally by: Shreddy Krueger

For 0.0 of course the Rokh is the best choice as the Apoc cannot fit a tank when going on full mining setup.


Actually on this point you are dead wrong. Consider the following fit

highs
8x DCM II

Meds
4x Ecutic Cap charger

Lows
3x t2 cpu
1x MLU
1x Large Accom armor rep
1x DB Therm hardner
1x DB EM hardner

Granted its hvly tanked to deal with amar dmg dealing rats, but as you can see this is a tank and mining setup, will tank most bs spawns in fact. The rep and laser and hardners run forever and your cap is steady around around 30-40%.

Course at this point I should mention I have perfect fitand cap skills to make this setup work on cpu.
Uh.. my rokh fitted with;

8x dcm II's
2x t2 hardeners, 1x cap recharger, 3x t2 large shield extenders
2x mining laser upgrades, 1x named cargo expander, 2x co-processor II's

Is way better than your apoc. And I could fit even more mining lasers upgrades with better skills, or rigs. I can tank 2x BS spawns in 0.0 with ~80% shields, and around 70% energy cap.

Colm McCulloch
Posted - 2007.04.06 21:59:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Soet Flicka14
Great guide!

I have one question though, anyone please feel free to answer. My skiff has a yield of 2470.7m3 / 40 = 61 Mercoxit every 3 minutes (without Mining Laser Upgrades, 2723.9m3 with). Now, according to this guide a maxed out Hulk pilot should use the following formula to calculate the Skiffs yield; 250*1.25*1.25*1.15*1.15*4*1.05*1.375*1.05^2 = 3289.17 m3/cycle, 3289.17/40 = 82 Mercoxit every 3 minutes. Could someone please interpret this forumla into skills? i.e fill in the blanks/question signs. 250(MDCSM2 Base Yield)*1.25(Mining lvl 5)*1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5)*1.15(?)*1.15(?)*4(?)*1.05(?)*1.375(?)*1.05^2(?) = 3289.17. Cause I see myself as a "maxed out hulk pilot" but apparently I'm not, so I want to know what I'm missing.

Again, great guide Halada, thanks! and I would be very grateful if someone could give an answer to this post.


I think there is a slight error in that calculation:

250(MDCSM2 Base Yield) *1.25(Mining lvl 5) *1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5) *1.15(Mining Barge V) *1.15(Mining Forman V w/ help from Mindlink?) *1.05(HX-2 Highwall) *1.75(T2 Mining Crystal) *3(Exhumer V bonus for Skiff[.6*5]) *1.05^2(MLUx2) = 3,139.66 m3 /40 = 78 units per cycle

Without implants and MLU this should be:
250(MDCSM2 Base Yield) *1.25(Mining lvl 5) *1.25(Astrogeology lvl 5) *1.15(Mining Barge V) *1.10(Mining Forman V *1.75(T2 Mining Crystal) *3(Exhumer V bonus for Skiff[.6*5])= 2,594.24 m3 /40 = 64 units per cycle


Elliesium Al'kar
Posted - 2007.04.08 10:13:00 - [141]
 

My 0.0 Rokh (anti gurista flavor)
----------
8 Miner IIs -always on

2x Ballistic Deflection Field II (active kinetic shield)-always on
1x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I (passive kinetic shield)
1x Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I (passive thermal shield)
1x 'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier (named shield boost amp)
1x Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster (74.1 shield for 12.22 energy? Heck yes!)
(booster is left always on)

3x Mining Laser Upgrade I
2x CPU Upgrades

3 Capacitor Control Circuit Rigs (The KEY to keeping perma cap)

Need electronics 5 to fit the 3 mlus - with electronics 4 you can fit 2 mlus and a pdu.

This baby can perma tank 3x 1.8m BS spawns without even taking red on the shields.
You can run all lasers with no cap worries.
Makes a great tank for my Hulk alt.
Due to cost, aligning to the POS is recommended :)

I also want to point out one little factoid to BS miners - You may need to skill up several +5%gains with skills or modules to see a difference in high end ore gathering, due to the fact that bistot, for example, is 16m3. similar to the drone yield calculations. When you do see an increase, its huge. Say you were getting 6 ore from each laser, for 48 ore/minute. When you cross the next 16m3 threshold you get 7 ore per laser for 56 ore/minute. Thats a 14.28572% gain.


Celciuz
Posted - 2007.04.10 13:07:00 - [142]
 

Pardon me, but what type of Caldari do I need in order to take full advantage of the guide? Like which to pump to and which race to choose?

Yulada
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2007.04.11 09:22:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Yulada on 11/04/2007 09:18:08
This is the original Halada.

My character Halada is now under new ownership since I have officially taken my leave of EVE. Perhaps not forever, time will tell.

I have received a couple of e-mail to congratulate me on my nomination for ''Best Guide of all EVE'' in EON #7. Thank you for the bottom of my heart, it was a a pleasure writing this and getting the response I got.

Keep living the carebear dream !

Regards,

Halada

Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2007.04.11 15:12:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Elliesium Al'kar
My 0.0 Rokh (anti gurista flavor)
----------
8 Miner IIs -always on

2x Ballistic Deflection Field II (active kinetic shield)-always on
1x Kinetic Deflection Amplifier I (passive kinetic shield)
1x Additional Thermal Barrier Emitter I (passive thermal shield)
1x 'Stalwart' I Particle Field Magnifier (named shield boost amp)
1x Gistii A-Type Small Shield Booster (74.1 shield for 12.22 energy? Heck yes!)
(booster is left always on)

3x Mining Laser Upgrade I
2x CPU Upgrades

3 Capacitor Control Circuit Rigs (The KEY to keeping perma cap)

Need electronics 5 to fit the 3 mlus - with electronics 4 you can fit 2 mlus and a pdu.

This baby can perma tank 3x 1.8m BS spawns without even taking red on the shields.
You can run all lasers with no cap worries.
Makes a great tank for my Hulk alt.
Due to cost, aligning to the POS is recommended :)

I also want to point out one little factoid to BS miners - You may need to skill up several +5%gains with skills or modules to see a difference in high end ore gathering, due to the fact that bistot, for example, is 16m3. similar to the drone yield calculations. When you do see an increase, its huge. Say you were getting 6 ore from each laser, for 48 ore/minute. When you cross the next 16m3 threshold you get 7 ore per laser for 56 ore/minute. Thats a 14.28572% gain.




This is a nice little build,

Are all your cap skills maxed out? I'm surprised that you need 3 cap control circuits to keep that running. Could you maybe fit a pithii A-type and swap the boost amplifier for a cap battery?

BogdanZero
Posted - 2007.04.17 23:31:00 - [145]
 

I want to thank you very much halada , great job with the guide.

Visionsz
Caldari
The Kelly Gang
Posted - 2007.04.28 17:13:00 - [146]
 

Nice guide Halada :)

Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2007.04.29 13:42:00 - [147]
 

There is small mistake in the Arkonor numbers.

The number of units to refine says 200 in the Item Database, not 250, as in the guide.

Areo


Dramaan
Posted - 2007.05.04 10:37:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Dramaan on 04/05/2007 11:11:54
I was wondering why he wrote that hulk don't have any bonus to ice
Exhumers Skill Bonus: 3% better yield for Strip Miners per level and 5% reduction in Ice Harvester duration any one that knows why i havent chaged that?

Yulada
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2007.05.04 17:27:00 - [149]
 

Because the bonus was only added in Rev and I CBA to change it now

Mira Ryzondus
Minmatar
Sten Industries
Posted - 2007.05.13 06:51:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Gnord
The first post no longer has a file behind the link. I wanted to reference it for a particular detail but it is lost! Does anybody have another copy they'd upload and make available?

I can download them, but Acrobat says the file is incomplete or corrupt.

On an note unrelated to the file, I'm definitely interested in mining and this thread is phenomenally helpful. I have what is more or less an odd question:

I really like the (visual) design of Minmatar ships - with the obvious exception of the ORE ships, am I going to be significantly handicapped by taking, say, the Scythe over the Osprey or the Wreathe over the Badger?

At least, early in my mining career?


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