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Kharich
Posted - 2007.01.23 16:53:00 - [91]
 

I'm pretty sure the mining formula is wrong... that or I'm interpreting it wrong, because I calculated it with all 3 skills at lv5 and it never even reaches 76% (assuming station equipment is at 75%)

I did:
75 + (0.375 x (1 + [5 x 0.02]) x (1 + [5 x 0.04]) x (1 + [5 x 0.05]))
= 75,61875 %

and it gives even less (obviously) if it's
75 + (0.375 x ([1 + 5]x 0.02) x ([1 + 5] x 0.04) x ([1 + 5] x 0.05))

I bring this up because I'm in the market for a PoS refinery and was researching weather the yeild was better or not than a station's, and the document came up during a search.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.01.23 18:47:00 - [92]
 

the equation is accurate only for stations, a POS gives a MAX refining yield of 75%

Gnord
Posted - 2007.01.23 23:37:00 - [93]
 

Ok, I've searched your guide, the forums, the web in general, and I still cannot find any significant calculation, hypothesis, or explanation on how the volatility on crystals works.

If it's out there, I've searched and searched for it, and I just can't find it.

SO,

Let's start with a veldspar mining crystal.

Volatility: 0.1%
Volatility Damage: 0.025
Crystals Damage: 1

I'm trying to figure out how long a particular crystal will last. Nobody I've talked to has a real definite answer, and certainly no kind of formula or calculation. Your guide has much more information on crystals than I've seen anywhere else, but of course it still lacks this one detail.

Further explanation on this would be great, thanks.

G'nord

Taaketa Frist
Minmatar
Galactic Defence Consortium
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.01.24 12:58:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Gnord
...


Theres no real way to tell the Crystal could explode on your first cycle or on your 1000th cycle because it is chance based.

Granted theres a gradual increase on the chance of it blowing up the more you use the crystal but the figure I get most of the time for my crystals (When I use them occasionally, I prefere strip Is) is anywhere between 23-30 hours worth of mining.

Orestes Umnon
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.01.24 22:17:00 - [95]
 

Something that caught my eye and hasn't been mentioned yet (I think), was chapter 9.2:
"Since neither [the Hulk nor the Covetor] have any sort of bonus for ice mining, the only advantage of the Hulk over the Covetor is its ability to fit one extra IHU, which means a mere 5% extra reduction in cycle time over the Covetor."

Yet last time I checked, the Hulk received a 3% ice harvester duration reduction from the Exhumers skill. Am I missing something or are you? Smile

Traderin
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.01.24 23:36:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Traderin on 24/01/2007 23:32:56
Huh?

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.01.24 23:38:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Orestes Umnon
Something that caught my eye and hasn't been mentioned yet (I think), was chapter 9.2:
"Since neither [the Hulk nor the Covetor] have any sort of bonus for ice mining, the only advantage of the Hulk over the Covetor is its ability to fit one extra IHU, which means a mere 5% extra reduction in cycle time over the Covetor."

Yet last time I checked, the Hulk received a 3% ice harvester duration reduction from the Exhumers skill. Am I missing something or are you? Smile


Ohhh WTF? This was recently and silently changed because prior to writing the guide I checked and there were no mention of ice harvesters. This was added out of the blues.

Again something that went unnotice because no one thought about writing it in patch notes Rolling Eyes

Alexi Johns
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2007.01.25 02:15:00 - [98]
 

ok i typed up a nice post neat and structured and the eve forums eat it grr.. so pleasse excuse this post

Halada,

If you do another revision can you include the following.

1. A macro/formula to update the data in your figures with current market prices and to deal with market fluctuations. Including ore ice and gas.

2. More detail about ore volumes and how this relates to yield and isk vs time ... for those people who insist Mecoxit is the best thing to mine.

3. A Chapter on Gas harvesting

Thanks in advance and for the great guide

Eewec Ourbyni
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.25 20:53:00 - [99]
 

AS this seems to be the place to talk about all things mining...

Anyone had any info on this little conundrum?

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0701/soyeahumm.JPG?

Taaketa Frist
Minmatar
Galactic Defence Consortium
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.01.26 11:10:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Eewec Ourbyni
...


No idea. But as you are there you may be first to test out the skill and see if it works or not on those mods :p

Mr Xofar
Plus One Noob
Posted - 2007.01.26 13:46:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Mr Xofar on 27/01/2007 08:51:17
Okay, Halada, awesome guide. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why folks insist they need to nuke the refining formula, and ignore the station's Net Yield. It's not as bogus, as people are being led to believe.

why do all this...

[Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05)

When all you need is this...
efficiency = (station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100

If the result is greater than 1, then use 1; for 100% yield.

The station_net_yield already takes into account your Refining and Refining Efficiency skills. The only thing it is missing is the processing skill.


The whole thing...(tax not indcluded) Razz
efficiency = [(station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100] where result [<=1]

refined = base_mineral_yield * efficiency

received = refined - (refined * comission / 100)

EDIT: It should also be pointed out that [Station Equipment] should be represented as [Station Equipment/100] if you're going to use that formula. Then the entire result needs to be multiplied by 100, or just use [Station Equipment] + 37.5...etc. Then divide the result by 100 and the multiply the base mineral amount by that to get your yield. Either way, it's more work that you need to do to get an accurate refining efficiency for that station.




0raven0
Burning Sky Labs
MARS WARFARE CENTRE
Posted - 2007.01.28 01:21:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Mr Xofar
Edited by: Mr Xofar on 27/01/2007 08:51:17
Okay, Halada, awesome guide. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why folks insist they need to nuke the refining formula, and ignore the station's Net Yield. It's not as bogus, as people are being led to believe.

why do all this...

[Station Equipment] + 0.375x(1+[Refining Skill]x0.02)x(1+[Refinery Efficiency Skill]x0.04)x(1+[Ore Processing Skill]x0.05)

When all you need is this...
efficiency = (station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100

If the result is greater than 1, then use 1; for 100% yield.

The station_net_yield already takes into account your Refining and Refining Efficiency skills. The only thing it is missing is the processing skill.


The whole thing...(tax not indcluded) Razz
efficiency = [(station_net_yield + processing_skill * 5) / 100] where result [<=1]

refined = base_mineral_yield * efficiency

received = refined - (refined * comission / 100)

EDIT: It should also be pointed out that [Station Equipment] should be represented as [Station Equipment/100] if you're going to use that formula. Then the entire result needs to be multiplied by 100, or just use [Station Equipment] + 37.5...etc. Then divide the result by 100 and the multiply the base mineral amount by that to get your yield. Either way, it's more work that you need to do to get an accurate refining efficiency for that station.




I think part of the reason he shows that formula is for people that have low or no refining skills and want to see what they will get when the have a certain level of a skill. That way they can just fill in the blanks with whatever they want.

Internet Engineer
Posted - 2007.01.28 10:41:00 - [103]
 

Very nice, thanks Halada

Mike Yagon
Minmatar
The Nest
Posted - 2007.01.29 00:32:00 - [104]
 

Very nice guide, however, the prices really need to be adjusted to the current market again. Crokite used to be at 10k/unit, but now it's closer to 6k/unit. Is it even still possible to reach the fabled 100m/h nowadays? Is it me, or did the opening of the new regions really eat into the miners profits?

Mercoxit also plummeted badly, Morphite went from 15k to 5k basically. Mercoxit mining doesn't seem worth the hassle anymore. Although Ice Mining seems to have stayed roughly the same, some price fluctuations have occured there too. Dark Glitter is worth about 50% more. Strontium is at 5k now, and LO can go for 500 easily.

Given that you don't update the sheet anymore, you could perhaps appoint someone to take it over to keep it up to date? (Not me, I'm only a part time miner! Wink)

Marcus Tedric
Gallente
Tedric Enterprises
Crimson Steel Empire
Posted - 2007.01.29 10:57:00 - [105]
 

An excellent guide, many thanks from many pilots.

If I may add a couple of things not noted above already...

A couple of Mining Drone Augmentor Rigs in a High Sec Hulk setup (for all those who would like cheaper Trit!) are very good and, to add to the Guide - they work well and stackVery Happy (Section 8.1)

In section 9 - there's currently no mention of the Ice Mining Gang Module - plus the confirmed fact that there are still many High Sec Ice Fields out there...

But, still, an excellent piece of work.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.01.29 15:24:00 - [106]
 

The ice mining actually is covered. As for the high sec ice fields, they are suppose to disappear over time.

0raven0
Burning Sky Labs
MARS WARFARE CENTRE
Posted - 2007.02.01 07:06:00 - [107]
 

None of the links in the guide are working for the newest update. None of the "jump to" links from the table of contents nor the links to websites like the refining calculator are actually links. I mean they are obviously supposed to be links but they are just normal text.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.02.01 09:38:00 - [108]
 

Office 2007 flt. Ill try to fix it

Mattif2k3
Gallente
Pretty Good Piracy
Posted - 2007.02.01 13:40:00 - [109]
 

first of all, thx halada 4 the great guide.

since i started to play eve i was focusing on mining. thus your guide became my bible. i love the formulas and the good consideration of possibilities.
i got two chars. one miner (hulk) and one BC-foreman-donator and in 15 days both will hit the end of skilling in this direction. its real fun to mine. (even in empire ugh)

i'm looking foreward to see a new version including the rokh, hulk ice mining and gas mining (!)

greetz,
Mattif2k3 & Chromaticus

Kilgaard
Gallente
Posted - 2007.02.02 04:06:00 - [110]
 

I'm a n00b that has been looking at mining to help my manufacturing ambitions.

I've got a question regarding the merits of Miner II lasers. It seems to me that mining is a very CPU intensive operation, and the fitout you can get on many ships is limited by the CPU.

If you have a ship that has lots of turret mounts (like a humble Catalyst destroyer) then the best fit for this ship is something that maximises your yield per CPU.

Quick calcs:
Miner I: 40m3/60tf = .66
Miner II: 60m3/80tf = .75
XeCl Drilling Beam I: 47m3/48tf = .98

Miner IIs also require Mining Iv, and have an activation requirement of 90 compared to the 10 needed for XeCl.

Sure, if you have a ship that is turret limited, then the Miner IIs are better, but if you are CPU limited then the XeCls are significantly better.

Using XeCl lasers, I can fit 5 on my Catalyst giving me a raw yield of 235m3. Using Miner IIs (which I can't yet as I don't have Mining IV) I would only get 180m3.

This gives me a much better ship than a Bantom, and requires much less SPs than an Osprey. I will admit though that I'm having trouble working out the yield when you take into account the 20% bonus that the Osprey gets.

This is probably enough so that I will skip the Osprey entirely and go directly to a Domi.

Luka Intarestum
Posted - 2007.02.05 20:22:00 - [111]
 

Mining in a destroyer is a female dog. You will get carpal tunnel from the click n' drag.

Just a question for inclusion; For a pure mining fleet, correct me if I'm wrong, but four barges is the magic number before putting a command ship into the fleet. Until four barges, another barge would be more useful. If the effective yield bonus is 29% as you said, then...

M = Yield of a Miner.

4 Miner Fleet: 4M
vs.
3 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 3M * 1.29 = 3.87M

5 Miner Fleet: 5M
vs.
4 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 4M * 1.29 = 5.16M

This, of course, is assuming the command ship is providing no other function (rat tanking, anti-pirate, salvaging, etc.) to the fleet. So a five man fleet of four God-Hulks and a Battlecruiser with a maxed mining director flying it could potentially make 500mil an hour with ratting and salvage factored in.

Marcus Tedric
Gallente
Tedric Enterprises
Crimson Steel Empire
Posted - 2007.02.08 12:04:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Luka Intarestum
Mining in a destroyer is a female dog. You will get carpal tunnel from the click n' drag.

Just a question for inclusion; For a pure mining fleet, correct me if I'm wrong, but four barges is the magic number before putting a command ship into the fleet. Until four barges, another barge would be more useful. If the effective yield bonus is 29% as you said, then...

M = Yield of a Miner.

4 Miner Fleet: 4M
vs.
3 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 3M * 1.29 = 3.87M

5 Miner Fleet: 5M
vs.
4 Miner/1 Command Fleet: 4M * 1.29 = 5.16M

This, of course, is assuming the command ship is providing no other function (rat tanking, anti-pirate, salvaging, etc.) to the fleet. So a five man fleet of four God-Hulks and a Battlecruiser with a maxed mining director flying it could potentially make 500mil an hour with ratting and salvage factored in.


I tend to do it anyway, even with a single barge available, because I have the Director skills and not the barge ones!Smile

The numbers, however, are also impacted if the Command ship carries the Tech II Mining Drones and 3 x rigs - that's an additional 415m3 per 'cycle' - and yes is fitted with tractor and salvager too.

Where oh where is that Mining Drone Gang Module!

Dai007
Caldari
Novatech Armada
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.02.08 22:06:00 - [113]
 

Quote:
Mining Laser Upgrades +5% to yield per MLU


Is that correct?.

Quote:
Skill at using mining upgrades. 5% reduction per skill level in CPU penalty of mining upgrade modules.


Ummm ?

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.02.08 22:31:00 - [114]
 

You just gave the description for the skill, not the module itself Rolling Eyes

Dai007
Caldari
Novatech Armada
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.02.08 22:34:00 - [115]
 

Quote:
Increases the yield on mining lasers, but causes them to use up more CPU.


Doesn't say that it increases X per level tho.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.02.08 23:47:00 - [116]
 

No, the skill decreases the cpu penalty, that's all.

The module increases yield by 5%, regardless what level you have for the skill.

What am I missing here?

Dai007
Caldari
Novatech Armada
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.02.08 23:54:00 - [117]
 

AH, just me being stupid again lol. Thought it was a skill listing rather than the actual item.

Forgive my stupid posts. Great guide :)

Fatalita
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2007.02.09 19:04:00 - [118]
 

This thing helped me out a lot. I don't post much, but thanks!

Dangermouse DM
Caldari
Black River Industries
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2007.02.14 03:26:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Halada
Edited by: Halada on 12/02/2007 20:07:13

FIGHT FOR MORALITY AND EQUALITY


As of today I will no longer support CCP by taking time out of my lives and promote their game. The way they have handled the recent scandal, and the over usage of moderation disgusts my very essence. CCP has forever lost my respect.

The guide will remain available as long as you deem it actual and good, perhaps one day I will keep doing it, for the players, but certainly not for a self-righteous company like CCP.

I wish you good luck with your EVE career.


I'm sorry to hear of your disillusionment with CCP and I have to say I agree with you one hundred percent but I'd also like to say that it was your guide that got me into the game. It was the first guide I looked at on anything, it got me started and introduced me to the depth and uniqueness of Eve. Thank you for that and please remember that ultimatly regardless of how it is run it is the participents that set the tone and morality of a mmorpg.

I think the game was set up from the start with a loose definition of honour and fair play (I'm not saying that is a bad thing, quite the opposite) and prehaps in striving for that goal the developers have lost a little of thier own morality. Regardless we need those that are outraged by this to not give up as I for one would hate to play this game with a bunch of people that didn't care.

Tolomea
Gallente
5th Front enterprises
New Eve Order
Posted - 2007.02.16 04:16:00 - [120]
 

Your ice mining gang boost calculations are somewhat misleading.

You claim that the gang bonuses increase you from 11 cycles an hour to 15, a bonus of 4 cycles. Which appears to be a bonus of 36%

In reality it goes from 11.35 to 14.64 an increase of 3.29 Which is a fair bit closer to 3 than 4 and is exactly 29% the same as with ore mining.


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