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blankseplocked [Trinity] The Complete Miner's Guide - version 2.2 [PDF, 64 pages]
 
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Ikkajo
Minmatar
Illudium Space Products
Posted - 2006.12.22 07:50:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Dagle

MDCM2's are for mining mercoxit. They aren't useful for veld or any common minerals you will find in empire.


Actually, they're about 50% better than a standard Miner II if you fit a T2 crystal to them.


The only other general comment is that at the bottom of page 5 you state that Ice cannot be found in high-sec. This is wrong. There's at least 4 fields within 3 jumps of Pator that are all in 0.7 or higher - Add another field for Emolganlan, which is 0.5.

Xy Kintar
Posted - 2006.12.25 04:52:00 - [62]
 

Halada, whats your take on the current mineral market situation?

Damor Tahr
Posted - 2006.12.26 11:14:00 - [63]
 

I just want to say that your guide is very good. I'm a bit new to mining but after looking at your guide it makes me want to invest in mining now. Thanks again Halada.

Alha Qmar
Caldari
Xenon Logistics
Posted - 2006.12.26 18:11:00 - [64]
 

Very nice guide, keep up the good work.

FuzzBuzz
Caldari
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2006.12.29 17:17:00 - [65]
 

ive used quickfit to see what i can get in a rokh and i can get 8 miners 3 mining laser upgrades and 3 large extender 2s and have about 17 cpu left

can some get full rack of mining upgrades in bottom?

i can get 4 in with a co-pro2 nothing in mids except survey scanner :)

Lars Intarestum
Posted - 2006.12.30 01:38:00 - [66]
 

Quote:
I'm in need of someone good with the numbers to help me. I currently have mining foreman 5, mining director 5, warfare link specialist 3, and wing command 1. I also have the mining foreman mindlink plugged in. When mining I use a hulk fitted with tech 2 strip miners and 5 tech 2 mining drones.

My question is this, how many barges/exhumers would be needed to justify me not mining with a group in the hulk and using a bc with the mining foreman link?

I'd really be greatfull if someone could help me with this.


...Alot? I would like to know the answer to this as well. However, that command ship can be your Anti-Rat protection, mobile repair station and still mine with those 5 drones.Very Happy

Malibu Stacey
Gallente
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2006.12.30 02:46:00 - [67]
 

Hi,
my mining expertise only extends to hauling for my corpmates & using an Osprey to mine the Omber in missions like Human Cattle 5 of 5. I've recently moved up to level 3 & 4 missions so I'm seeing more free Ore just lying around & have been considering training for a barge to cut down on the time it will take me to clear the 'roids in a mission spawn out.
Having read your guide (good work btw) I think something is very wrong with your Retriever fittings.
A Retriever has 125 CPU/156.25 with Electronics 5.
Strip Miner I's need 60 CPU (12000-99.5%), with a Mining Upgrade I they go up to 66 CPU (I think, not sure how this is calculated so could be wrong).
Mining Upgrade I needs 30 CPU.
So 2 Strip Miner I's & a Mining Upgrade I need a total of 162 CPU if my calculations are correct. This is a little bit more than you can get out of a Retriever even with Electronics 5 and would therefore have to use the other low slot for a Co-Processor I to give a total of 167.1875 CPU (156.25+7% again not sure if this is how it is calculated so could be wrong). Funnily enough this would leave you just enough to fit a Survey Scanner I in your mid slot.

Now I'm not exactly sure how higher levels of Mining Upgrades affects the CPU increase but fitting just the low & mid slots on the recommended setup (Survey Scanner, Mining Upgrade I & PDU 2) would take 50 CPU assuming you have Energy Grid Upgrades at level 5. Therefore you'd have to make your Strip Miner I's use less CPU than they do without a Mining Upgrade I as this would leave you only 106.25 CPU to fit them both which to me doesn't make much sense.

I think you should add a section on mining in missions to your guide as there is some very nice easy ore to be had if one decides to go down that route.

Ky Vatta
Majority 12
Posted - 2007.01.01 01:15:00 - [68]
 

CoolNot sure how up to date this is, but it may help the Ice-miners out there:

Ice Fields Locations

As you can see, there are fields in Hi-sec tooVery Happy

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.03 19:22:00 - [69]
 

Okay, just for ****s and giggles, here's the actual numbers of a dedicated mining carrier with t2 mining drones:
25 ore units times 14 mining drones
plus: (drone link)
(drone command link = 2%) * (mining dir V = 5) * (warfare link spec V = 1.5) * (mining foreman mindlink = 1.5) == 122.5%
plus: (skills)
(mining drone operation V = 1.25) * (drone interfacing V = 2) == 250%
plus: (rigs)
(mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor I = 1.1) == 145.475%

25 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 111.379296875
That's 6 units of highend/cycle, or 84 for all 14 drones. Using your number for Crok, that's 55,144,555.20 isk/hr. And, obviously, you have a built-in tank.

Now let's try it with harvies, despite the fact that you say they're so useless:
30 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 133.65515625
That's 8 units of highend/cycle, or 112 for all 14 drones. Again, using Crok, that's 73,526,073.60 isk/hr. In other words, after 12 hours, you've more than paid off your harvester drones at 15m apiece.

As an aside, a mothership has room for 5 drone links plus the command link. With those equipped, a mommy with 25 Harvester drones mines 131,296,560 isk/hr.

Oh, and one last note--there's nothing quite like having a fleet of Hulks out, seeing an enemy enter Local, and by the time they've scanned down your Hulks and are warping to the belt, your Hulks have swapped out for the HACs they keep in your ship bay.

--P

Lar Min
Posted - 2007.01.05 15:51:00 - [70]
 

I believe I found another error in the guide. Under the Crystal section where required skills are for each type of crystal. It seems they split up the ores into three parts. High sec skills are correct but for Low sec you only need RE 4 and Metalurgy 3 for Dark Ocher, Gneiss, Hedbergite, and Spodumain. The 0.0 still require RE5 and Metalurgy 4.

Doffeh
Faerie Squadron
Posted - 2007.01.07 04:01:00 - [71]
 

Now I'm 4m SPs, having played eve for a tad, never thought much of mining, I felt that killing stuff was much fancier, then a little earlier today , I did some stupidity mining of kernite, which I sold completely unprocessed. I was flying a scythe with basic miner 1's... And still it seem very profitable. Not because of the ISKs, but because I can make profit without, paying too much attention (so I can play my bass while I play eve yay.)

Anyway, I've already decided to get an alt account, but after reading this great guide, I felt like using that alt for mining more than anything else! Especially with revelations giving you a kickstart now (and how my current character only got mining 1.)

Now the guide or the 18 pages of posts in the previous thread, may have answered my question already, but please don't blame me, it is late at night and it was a lot of reading.

I want my to be miner to also learn as effective as possible, and I know this is relevant for others as well, since many use dedicated alts to mine.

So when creating a character, what are the ideal atributes to go for? My mind tells me "INTELLIGENCE" all the way, but, I spoke to a few friends, and they told me that barges 5, was a far worse skill to train than astrology and such... So really, what is really, the ideal starting miner now? Or any suggestions as for what direction to go anyway?

Thanks in advance. Again, a great guide.

Manoxtra
Gallente
Aurora Polaris
The Babylon Consortium
Posted - 2007.01.07 11:48:00 - [72]
 

I would advice you to use this link, i used it too :))

Career of new chars

Graduran Anguirill
Swedish Px 77
strange tactical and research syndicate
Posted - 2007.01.07 14:54:00 - [73]
 

dang nice guide man, thanks a ton for taking the time and creating it and maintaining it.

Very Happy

Doffeh
Faerie Squadron
Posted - 2007.01.07 15:37:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Manoxtra
I would advice you to use this link, i used it too :))

Career of new chars


That helped a lot, thanks!

Strel Samodelkin
Caldari Nationalist Party
Posted - 2007.01.08 11:08:00 - [75]
 

Wow! You mentioned you're a medical student. If you put in this much effort to write a 48 page mining guide and analysis, I can only imagine what your doctrate will be like.

Petrothian Tong
Gallente
Posted - 2007.01.09 05:13:00 - [76]
 

*feels stupid*

is it possible for someone to post the guide as not a pdf file?

it keep saying its damaged when I downloaded it...

At'lana Tir'freven
Caldari
Black Serpent Technologies
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2007.01.09 23:57:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: At''lana Tir''freven on 09/01/2007 23:54:40
Three things that are a tad misrepresented.

One
Mining crystal's increased cap usage - for 0.0 mining with t2 crystals thats a whooping 40 more energy per laser per cycle. That in itself is a cap drainer in which the caldari (abit blessed with every other aspect of eve) ships have not alot of. Now that doesnt sound like much ... until you fit 8 of them ... and must tank as well.

Two
Apoc tanking setup - The absolute worst damage to tank is multispec damage mainly from NPC's that do both EM & Thermal. Having to tank 2 different types is a pain for any 0.0 miner. Now lets look at MY Apoc tanking setup. Hi slots are dedicated to my beatiful MDCM2's fitted in every hi slot. My mids are fitted with eclytic cap recharchers although even t1 cap rechargers work fine and are cheap as hell. For having amarr battleship 4 i get a 20% increased cap ( one thing amarr ships are perfect at ) My low slots are a bit different story from yours. I arm my apoc with 3x CPU II's (only way to fit 8 MDCM2's) a t2 large armor rep (fairly cheap) an active dark blood EM armor hardener, any passive named (n-type works best) thermal armor hardener, and my last slot is for my cap power relay which docks shield boosting (not like i care for shields anyway) but gives me 20% ro my cap recharge rate. As of this not i also fitted an EM and Therm armor rig to my ship. My EM and Thermal tank is over 80% (actual in game figures) and i barely need to run my t2 large armor rep much unless i am tanking a 3x 1m+ isk BS spawn plus cruisers. Also with 75m3 of drone space i can fit 10 warrior II drones and have 5 mining II drones. No interceptor or assault frigate will tangle with a tank that heavy regardless of teh spawn AND 10 warrior II's. In short fitted this way you get a tank that can tank damn near anything but officer spawns and is MUCH cheaper and readily produced in 0.0 space.

Three
Longer cycle vs Shorter cycle - It wasnt really hinted on as to WHY a longer cycle is better than a shorter one. Take the miner II vs a strip miner ... ASSUME NO FURTHER SKILLS OR MODS ... ie barge skills etc. your miner II will chew up rock at 60m3 per minute which in top end ore equals 3.75 and bless ccp that they dont give you 3/4 or a unit of ore or the market would become that much more complex. as a base 3 miner II's (assuming base ore mining rates) equals 1 strip miner (60m3 x 3 lasers x 3 cycles) equals what 1 strip miner mines in 3 minutes. Now look at the results ... 1 strip miner will mine 540 m3 of ore (33 units of top end ore) every 3 minutes whereas 3 miner II's only net 27. This is not based on skills this is based on the simple fact that larger cycles round 1 ore unit every cycle and shorter cycle lasers round more for the same elapsed time.

So in short ... Fit those MDCM2's that you always wanted ... snuggle in close to those MSM's that you sleep with at night ... because they will ... always ... net ... more. And more is better ... more Iskies ... more Kills ... more Corp ***** lovin.

PS: It is to note that you should never ... ever ... mine spodumain nor plagioclause ... there is always something more useful to mine that will make you more money ... Also do not go to 0.0 space to mine gniess or dark ocrhe ... you are in 0.0 space for a reason ... dont be a moron and gimp your profits.

Thank you that is all ...

Alaris Nightshadow
Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
On the Rocks
Posted - 2007.01.13 08:14:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Alaris Nightshadow on 20/01/2007 23:44:57
Originally by: Pilk
Okay, just for ****s and giggles, here's the actual numbers of a dedicated mining carrier with t2 mining drones:
25 ore units times 14 mining drones
plus: (drone link)
(drone command link = 2%) * (mining dir V = 5) * (warfare link spec V = 1.5) * (mining foreman mindlink = 1.5) == 122.5%
plus: (skills)
(mining drone operation V = 1.25) * (drone interfacing V = 2) == 250%
plus: (rigs)
(mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor II = 1.15) * (mining drone augmentor I = 1.1) == 145.475%

25 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 111.379296875
That's 6 units of highend/cycle, or 84 for all 14 drones. Using your number for Crok, that's 55,144,555.20 isk/hr. And, obviously, you have a built-in tank.

Now let's try it with harvies, despite the fact that you say they're so useless:
30 x 1.225 x 2.5 x 1.45475 = 133.65515625
That's 8 units of highend/cycle, or 112 for all 14 drones. Again, using Crok, that's 73,526,073.60 isk/hr. In other words, after 12 hours, you've more than paid off your harvester drones at 15m apiece.

As an aside, a mothership has room for 5 drone links plus the command link. With those equipped, a mommy with 25 Harvester drones mines 131,296,560 isk/hr.

Oh, and one last note--there's nothing quite like having a fleet of Hulks out, seeing an enemy enter Local, and by the time they've scanned down your Hulks and are warping to the belt, your Hulks have swapped out for the HACs they keep in your ship bay.

--P



You're forgetting that Harvester Drones travel only 250m/s vs 500m/s for T2 Drones, so unless you are right on top of the roids the T2 will haul in more per hour, even if the haul per cycle is better on a Harvester.

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.14 09:11:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
Your

You're.

Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
forgetting that Harvester Drones travel twice as slow

This has no mathematical meaning. "Half the speed," perhaps?

Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
as T2 drones, so unless you are right on top of the roids

And why wouldn't you be?

Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
the T2 will haul in more per hour, even if the haul per cycle is better on a Harvester.

When the haul per cycle is 33% better than t2 drones (8 ore units instead of 6), unless those Harvesters are spending 20 EXTRA seconds per cycle coming back from and going to the rock as compared to their t2 brethren, Harvies still win the day.

Originally by: Alaris Nightshadow
Harvesters suck, period.

How kind of you to blindly follow the dictates of the semi-informed guide writer rather than look at the math and realize you're wrong. That's okay; I'm sure you'd also tell me that Neutron blasters rock, even when you're fitting 2 damage mods and a reactor control, and I'm using Ions with 3 damage mods. Or any number of similarly cockamamie stances based, again, not on a careful review of the evidence but instead on some half-baked "gut feeling" or on an overblown, self-righteous, "thread-pwning!!11!!1!" mining guide writer.

If you'd like to dispute my math, dispute my math. But don't make stupid assertions without the intestinal fortitude or the intellectual capability to back them up.

--P

P.S. Preemptively, to the mods--"****amamie", n. Something ridiculous, incredible, or implausible. From the French "décalcomanie". Not circumventing the profanity filter, just using a proper word in the proper context that happens to contain those letters in that order.

Shojjin
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.14 17:20:00 - [80]
 

I despise smartasses...

The guide's writer is far from mis-informed or half-informed, when you come up with something better than I'll listen to you, until then, go waltz elsewhere.

The guide provides all the facts you need to realize harvesters suck, especially for their price, and in all my hours of mining, and the fact the Hulk is slow, I have rarely seen a session where I could always be right on top of a roid.

Add on that the numerous CTD that happen, the rats eat your 100mil in drones in about 1 minute. So you then need 1-3 hours of mining just to recup the cost.

You're a smartass just for having corrected his grammar, like you know so much better. Call CONCORD, z0mg, spelling mistakes were made! Shocked Shocked Shocked

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2007.01.14 18:18:00 - [81]
 

erm
It really isn't that hard to get on top of a roid.
0.0 belt, roids at 350km each way, just warp to one of them and then warp to the roid you wanna mine.

You'll land right on top of it, and harvies are ftw with no travel time :)

Shojjin
Caldari
Posted - 2007.01.14 18:33:00 - [82]
 

Even if you could always be right on top of a roid, all the extra managing aside, can you justify paying 40 times more per harvesters than a T2 costs versus the small reward ?

Plus if you lose them (which is more than likely, if you are jumped on by pirates or CTD), the small ammount of extra ISK you made using them will go into repaying for a new set.

They suck

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.01.14 19:30:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Shojjin
I despise smartasses...

I am one. I also despise them. Go figure, eh? Twisted Evil

Originally by: Shojjin
The guide's writer is far from mis-informed or half-informed, when you come up with something better than I'll listen to you, until then, go waltz elsewhere.

Go back and read some of his first drafts. He's actually startlingly misinformed, personally. It's just that he posted enough ridiculous assertions in an easy-to-read format that people who ACTUALLY knew what they were talking about went through and corrected all his mistakes. Thus the new thread for new versions of the guide--his goal is to appear infallible. "The best mining guide in the galaxy"....

I am not an industrialist by any stretch of the imagination; I have no interest in writing a better guide. But I take issue with assertions that it's stupid to mine in capitals and that harvesters are worthless, simply because those assertions are provably, mathematically, false.

Originally by: Shojjin
The guide provides all the facts you need to realize harvesters suck, especially for their price, and in all my hours of mining, and the fact the Hulk is slow, I have rarely seen a session where I could always be right on top of a roid.

I'm not in a Hulk. Read the post to which he originally replied. Obviously, you just saw "Harvesters" without "suck" next to it, and smashed keys until a sufficiently vitriolic, half-assed post had been completed to remedy this apparent oversight.

Originally by: Shojjin
Add on that the numerous CTD that happen, the rats eat your 100mil in drones in about 1 minute. So you then need 1-3 hours of mining just to recup the cost.

If you CTD every 1-3 hours, it's time to seriously re-examine your computer's setup.

Originally by: Shojjin
jumped on by pirate

Unlike being in a Hulk, when you're in a carrier, you wave to the pirates in Local and tell them which belt you're in. That way the Hulks you were tanking for--who just swapped out for their interceptors from your ship bay--don't even have to travel anywhere to tackle while you spit out and delegate fighters.

Originally by: Shojjin
You're a smartass just for having corrected his grammar, like you know so much better. Call CONCORD, z0mg, spelling mistakes were made! Shocked Shocked Shocked

It's quite simply because I believe that a foundation to a good written-word community (i.e. these forums) is--shocker!--the ability to communicate effectively using the written word. If your own skills aren't up to par, Microsoft Word and OpenOffice both have excellent spelling and grammar tools, and I believe there's an option in FireFox 2.0 to spell-check in <TEXTAREA> boxes.

--P

P.S. Finally, one last note for those with mining drones of any type on a barge/exhumer--simply get on top of one roid, and mine it exclusively with drones. Then mine another roid, <15km away, with your lasers. Best of both worlds, and that way you maximize drone yield and minimize time spent travelling to another rock for your drones' sake.

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2007.01.15 01:26:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Shojjin
Even if you could always be right on top of a roid, all the extra managing aside, can you justify paying 40 times more per harvesters than a T2 costs versus the small reward ?

Plus if you lose them (which is more than likely, if you are jumped on by pirates or CTD), the small ammount of extra ISK you made using them will go into repaying for a new set.

They suck

Quite frankly, yes I can :)

Also, you can say the same thing to those buying Hulk's.

Amphetaminer
Grumpy Old Men
Posted - 2007.01.17 15:49:00 - [85]
 

hey thx for taking the time to write this guide. Ive started playing 2 days ago and think mining is a good way to start getting to know the game. The guide is pretty good the only thing i don't really get (and hope someone can answer) is do you use an alternate char on the same account for hauling the cans or do u just fly back to the nearest station and have your hauler there aswell and switch ships?? Since u can only learn 1 skill at the time it would take me quite sometime to get skills for the hauler ship and while im learning that i cant improve my gain from my main ship right (i hope u understand what i mean :P)

Dai007
Caldari
Novatech Armada
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.01.18 22:13:00 - [86]
 

Hey,

What rigs should i use on the hulk? i was thinking the anti-kinetic rigs to increase my resist to kinetic (guristas rats). Or maybe a cap recharge to keep the tank?

Any suggestions?

Firecrak
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2007.01.20 06:33:00 - [87]
 

Great guide. I am not a miner, but hell, its nice to read about all the diffrent prospects of making ISK in eve :)

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2007.01.21 18:28:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Halada on 21/01/2007 18:30:07
I have released version 2.0.1 of the guide. I've added some comments and info on heavily debated subjects, removed some inappropriate content and corrected some mistakes.

I've been following the thread and I really do not appreciate people who come here to moan or ***** just for the heck of it without offering constructive criticism. I consider to be the "owner" of this thread since it is the for a piece of work it took me a while to write. I would appreciate if all trolls (trolling is everything from insulting others up to trying to be a smartass by correcting other people's grammar) could stay away from this thread. I believe this thread should remain civilized and helpful since EVE gets new players every day, and I want them to seek guidance in a clean thread. I will not hesitate to contact the mods to have any harmful comments removed. If you feel the urge to show off your e-peen start another thread. Thank you !

MANY thanks for all the mail I have gotten, I was overwhelmed by the number of eve mails I received ! Thank you for showing you care, I'm VERY happy it could help you out. All this work didn't go for nothing Smile

I wish you all a happy new year 2007 by the way ! Very Happy

Dai007
Caldari
Novatech Armada
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.01.21 23:09:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Halada
Edited by: Halada on 21/01/2007 18:30:07
I have released version 2.0.1 of the guide. I've added some comments and info on heavily debated subjects, removed some inappropriate content and corrected some mistakes.

I've been following the thread and I really do not appreciate people who come here to moan or ***** just for the heck of it without offering constructive criticism. I consider to be the "owner" of this thread since it is the for a piece of work it took me a while to write. I would appreciate if all trolls (trolling is everything from insulting others up to trying to be a smartass by correcting other people's grammar) could stay away from this thread. I believe this thread should remain civilized and helpful since EVE gets new players every day, and I want them to seek guidance in a clean thread. I will not hesitate to contact the mods to have any harmful comments removed. If you feel the urge to show off your e-peen start another thread. Thank you !

MANY thanks for all the mail I have gotten, I was overwhelmed by the number of eve mails I received ! Thank you for showing you care, I'm VERY happy it could help you out. All this work didn't go for nothing Smile

I wish you all a happy new year 2007 by the way ! Very Happy


Exactly, this guide is THE BEST or THY BEST. All your work is greatly appreciated it helps alot. (No this isnt buttkissing)

Gonna check out the new guide :D. Good work keep it up.

Taaketa Frist
Minmatar
Galactic Defence Consortium
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2007.01.23 12:05:00 - [90]
 

I support this guide 100%.

If you have issues with it. I would argue it is because you are not going to be or are not a dedicated miner thus you should only take snippets from it and then reapply them to your style of play. This guide caters for "part time" miners but its emphasis is on dedicated "full time" miners.


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