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blankseplocked [Trinity] The Complete Miner's Guide - version 2.2 [PDF, 64 pages]
 
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Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2006.12.07 22:15:00 - [31]
 

Ive extensively tested the Hulks with dozens of setup, no passive setups will be good enought to tank 0.0 rats alone if this is what you are after.


Dai007
Caldari
Novatech Armada
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2006.12.08 00:08:00 - [32]
 

Going to test out a hulk setup soon enough once i buy the modules / raise the cash :).

Gistii A Type Small Shield Booster
2 x Dread Guritas Kinetic Deflection Field

Aint testing it yet tho :)

Beatrice Belleza
Rymden Varvet
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.08 01:09:00 - [33]
 

So Halada would you like to look at my drones table? Its quite detailed telling how much ore a T2 drone will mine at 15km,10km,5km, ect per hour with max mining skills and drone nav 5.

Also shows same info for harvesters, you can change the info I give you if you want to put it in your guide.

Rustayne Talrus
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:28:00 - [34]
 

Is it just me or did they take out the mining implants? I can't seem to locate them anywhere. I looked in contracts, and on the market, searched in the market, and nothing. It tells me they don't exist. Where they removed?

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2006.12.08 10:37:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Beatrice Belleza
So Halada would you like to look at my drones table? Its quite detailed telling how much ore a T2 drone will mine at 15km,10km,5km, ect per hour with max mining skills and drone nav 5.

Also shows same info for harvesters, you can change the info I give you if you want to put it in your guide.


It is possible the Harvesters will in fact mine slightly more than T2 mining drones, but the margin will be I am sure incredibly small. Drones are very vulnerable, any CTD and the rats will **** your drones, and seeing as Harvesters prices only keep rising for some reason, they are now approaching the 20mil per drone mark and this is scary to think they cost as much as a carrier fighter !

Compared to the 500k retail price of T2 Mining drones, I would not suggest using harvesters ever. Drone naviguation will also affect T2 Mining drones, so the only factor which can be reduced is distance. Post a link to your excel sheet here, hopefully users can have a look at it and when I update my guide I will consider putting it int he guide for the sake of completing the information, I still stand behind my POV that risking 100mil of drones for the very small benefit you get out of them vs T2 Mining drones is not worth it.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2006.12.08 10:38:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Rustayne Talrus
Is it just me or did they take out the mining implants? I can't seem to locate them anywhere. I looked in contracts, and on the market, searched in the market, and nothing. It tells me they don't exist. Where they removed?


They weren't, I've seen them a few times. Keep looking or browse the sell orders forum, I've seen dozens of michi implants auctions.

Cynoslaver
Posted - 2006.12.08 17:28:00 - [37]
 

2 quick things

1: Harvester drones are up to 20 mil because they are a vanishing item. (can't seem to find the right word useage) What I mean is you can't 'get them' new any more. the only one's that exist are theones currently in game. So every time 1 dies, that's 1 lest in circulation.

Given all the math and details and nav skill and bla bla bla though, they're a complete waste of money, and generally people are buying them that aren't doing their homework.

2. As far as hulk tanks. Actually, you can tank just fine with the passive setup I suggested. With the copmensation skills you do end u pwith slightly less resist on your specific resist types but you don't have to go out and tank triple bs spawns.

What I'm generally doing is (on the rare occasion I want to tank with hulk which i normally don't) is just going out, finding medium to small spawns and those tank ok. I wouldn't attempt a triple bs with passives, though not having the extra cap drain from the 2 dread gurrista actives (using dread gurrista passives) you don't have to get your cap skills to 5 with this.

bla, wordy tonight, in short, it'll tank fine, I just wouldn't recommend the 1 mil plus spawns. This is really useful if yer doing the t2 crystal route and staggering, and cutting it real close.

Beatrice Belleza
Rymden Varvet
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.12.08 20:31:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Halada
Originally by: Beatrice Belleza
So Halada would you like to look at my drones table? Its quite detailed telling how much ore a T2 drone will mine at 15km,10km,5km, ect per hour with max mining skills and drone nav 5.

Also shows same info for harvesters, you can change the info I give you if you want to put it in your guide.


It is possible the Harvesters will in fact mine slightly more than T2 mining drones, but the margin will be I am sure incredibly small. Drones are very vulnerable, any CTD and the rats will **** your drones, and seeing as Harvesters prices only keep rising for some reason, they are now approaching the 20mil per drone mark and this is scary to think they cost as much as a carrier fighter !

Compared to the 500k retail price of T2 Mining drones, I would not suggest using harvesters ever. Drone naviguation will also affect T2 Mining drones, so the only factor which can be reduced is distance. Post a link to your excel sheet here, hopefully users can have a look at it and when I update my guide I will consider putting it int he guide for the sake of completing the information, I still stand behind my POV that risking 100mil of drones for the very small benefit you get out of them vs T2 Mining drones is not worth it.
Yes I agree after doing my research, not only would you have to be within a few Kms of the roid for the benefit to be big enough with harvys, but they also cost a ton. In my opinion its not worth it, and thats why my file lists how much m3 you will mine(and cycles) per hour for T2 mining drones and Harvys, you can simply disregard harvys if you want.

Right click save Drone Mining (microsoftword)

Karodnotos
Caldari
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.09 01:07:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Rustayne Talrus
Is it just me or did they take out the mining implants? I can't seem to locate them anywhere. I looked in contracts, and on the market, searched in the market, and nothing. It tells me they don't exist. Where they removed?
Ist a bug.
Look here: Linkage

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2006.12.10 22:30:00 - [40]
 

Harvesters have been long gone as loots, they were steady at 9mil for many months, they are really rocketing now, can't understand why really.

What I meant with passive resists won't tank I mean the biggest spawns. I'm quite sure it'll tank the smaller ones, but the active ones will tank any spawn you come across, which is quite reassuring !


Aira Phlux
Perkone
Posted - 2006.12.11 10:43:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Aira Phlux on 11/12/2006 10:45:14
Rokh setup ...

I see a lot of people talking about fitting 4 mining laser upgrades AND a tank. I'm stuggling to see how that is possible (refering to CPU). I have Electronics 5 and Mining upgrades 2 however I can only manage a passive resistance tank with 3 MLU and 2 Co-Pro I. If I fit a 4th MLU I can't have anything in the midslots except a Survey Scanner.

I suppose I will be advised to fit a Co-Pro II and train Mining Upgrades to lvl 4 or 5 but I'm not convinced that will allow me an extra 200(ish) CPU for a tank.

Is there anyone out there in the same boat, or who has cra.cked this puzzle?

EDIT: Can't believe cra.ck is banned Rolling Eyes

clawz 2
Posted - 2006.12.12 15:56:00 - [42]
 

WARNING nOOb question ; i havent seen anything on Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs , If they are equiped with the correct crystals for the ores that i am mining for , ex = veldspare crystals, will the Miner IIs still outmine it?

all my mining is done in Empire

Calieron
Posted - 2006.12.12 20:31:00 - [43]
 

Halada,

You, sir, are definately the master miner Wink. I just wanted to leave my "Thank You" for this wonderful guide. You have definitely put me into a position of getting effective as a miner too. Thanks for the wonderful work and... keep it up !

Hadon Arelus
Posted - 2006.12.12 22:29:00 - [44]
 

WOW - very nice - so much in depth knowledge - very appreciated. =)

I do have one question for you - on the DOMI setup with 5 MLU's and 2 PDU II's
this creates such a yield where my cargo is not enough room to hold
110x6=660+ and with the domi only 600m3 cargo.

Do you stagger your miners and empty every 30 secs?

Xorena Blastaphart
Caldari
Signum Malus
Posted - 2006.12.13 08:02:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Xorena Blastaphart on 13/12/2006 08:04:13


Concerning T2 Mining Crystals, even with my Hulk and more or less max'ed out skills I don't see the payback on investment based upon current mineral prices in comparison to the cost of crystals, crystal volatility and damage etc.

Based upon my current skills I'm only harvesting about 300 (total) ore units per cycle, and based upon current mineral prices prices its just about breakeven, if that, when the cost of the crystals are taken into account.

Am I overlooking something, or is the only benefit a savings on time alone ?

I'm sticking to building my own T1 crystals .. unless, as I said, I'm missing something obvious.

Great guide BTW, I've kept referring back to it time and time again as my mining skills have progressed.


Atherus Shadowstorm
Caldari
Ace Adventure Corp
Blood and Steel
Posted - 2006.12.13 13:05:00 - [46]
 

Thought Id my thanks and you rule to the others

been using this guide since i first started in the game 4 months ago, and its a grat help especially for the new player.

A few minor questions that arent really covered in the guide.

1. What would you Reccomend training first, A covetor or Tech 2 strips/crystals? Nb currently flying a retriever with tech 1 strips.


2. Considering how much tech 2 crystals cost right now are they really worth the extra cost for the amount extra they mine per cycle.

Verite Rendition
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2006.12.14 09:34:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Xorena Blastaphart
Edited by: Xorena Blastaphart on 13/12/2006 08:04:13


Concerning T2 Mining Crystals, even with my Hulk and more or less max'ed out skills I don't see the payback on investment based upon current mineral prices in comparison to the cost of crystals, crystal volatility and damage etc.

Based upon my current skills I'm only harvesting about 300 (total) ore units per cycle, and based upon current mineral prices prices its just about breakeven, if that, when the cost of the crystals are taken into account.

Am I overlooking something, or is the only benefit a savings on time alone ?

I'm sticking to building my own T1 crystals .. unless, as I said, I'm missing something obvious.

Great guide BTW, I've kept referring back to it time and time again as my mining skills have progressed.


What are you mining? Even T2 Crokite crystals as expensive as they are should offer a nice return.

Adaris
E X I U S
Posted - 2006.12.14 19:41:00 - [48]
 

I must say that of all the things I have read through while making expansive jumps through Empire afk, (72 today), this Guide, or should I say, 'Mining Bible', ranks so far above them all. This is in every way, the best, and most comprehensive Bible to Mining out there to date, Halada you are quite exceptional to have published it. My thanks for that. And the thanks for those who will also appreciate it as much as I do.

My favorite piece? Well it has to be this:
Quote:
I gotta say, now that I can make just around 100mil ISK per hour, I donít care so much when Iím called a carebear. Being a carebear rules, míokay? Much more so than the cool PvPers who do 20mil/hour ratting in 0.0 on a good dayÖ perspective is everything !


p.s. I've taken the liberty of adding you to my address book mate, and if I ever spot you in local you shall recieve a 'Heya' from me. :)

Keep it coming....

clawz 2
Posted - 2006.12.15 01:49:00 - [49]
 

WARNING nOOb question ; i havent seen anything on Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs , If they are equiped with the correct crystals for the ores that i am mining for , ex = veldspare crystals, will the Miner IIs still outmine it?

Elrinarie
Gallente
Scan This
Posted - 2006.12.15 06:26:00 - [50]
 

hey.. I was looking for just such a guide as I am building a calculator for my corp...

Thing is. I was testing some of this out and it seems I have one thing that appears to be different than the pdf.

the PDF states that EVE truncates the values when reprocessing, but in my testing I got a round up for anything above .5 and a round down for anything below.

in my test at least with just refining at rank 4. I had a 90.5% efficiency

refining 333 scrodite it should yeild

trit 833
pyer 416

833 * .905 = 753.865 and sure enough when I go to salvage only 79 ore is being taken away from my yield.

they might have changed this since writing the pdf.. just want to make sure I'm not the only one getting these results :)


Cyber Wolf
30O.
ROL.Citizens
Posted - 2006.12.16 15:29:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Cyber Wolf on 16/12/2006 15:32:18
I'm in need of someone good with the numbers to help me. I currently have mining foreman 5, mining director 5, warfare link specialist 3, and wing command 1. I also have the mining foreman mindlink plugged in. When mining I use a hulk fitted with tech 2 strip miners and 5 tech 2 mining drones.

My question is this, how many barges/exhumers would be needed to justify me not mining with a group in the hulk and using a bc with the mining foreman link?

I'd really be greatfull if someone could help me with this.

Dagle
Minmatar
Knights Of The Void
Posted - 2006.12.17 04:58:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: clawz 2
WARNING nOOb question ; i havent seen anything on Modulated Deep Core Miner IIs , If they are equiped with the correct crystals for the ores that i am mining for , ex = veldspare crystals, will the Miner IIs still outmine it?

all my mining is done in Empire


MDCM2's are for mining mercoxit. They aren't useful for veld or any common minerals you will find in empire.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2006.12.17 11:22:00 - [53]
 

MDCM2 can be used to mine everything, so with the proper crystals itll outmine the miner II of course. The math isnt hard to do.

MDCSM2 are the ones used exclusively for Mercoxit

Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2006.12.19 12:42:00 - [54]
 

At the risk of getting scorched, one thing i really missed in the guide was an explanation why the Bantam is better than the Navitas (which as far as i can see have roughly the same stats), or an overview of how effective the Amarr and Gallente drone miner cruisers are compared to their turret mining counterparts and why the Vexxor is therefore a worse choice than an Osprey. I can understand why Minmatar ships are inferior in this regard as they just don't have the CPU of the Caldari ships so can fit fewer MLU's, but how does a ship with increased drone yield compare to one with increased mining laser yield?

I'd especially think a comparisson would be included as you'd have to learn Gallente cruisers to get to the Gallente battleship skill needed to use the Dominix.

Halada
Caldari
Lone Star Joint Venture
Posted - 2006.12.19 13:57:00 - [55]
 

There is no reason you should get scorched for asking a question or proposing an improvement :) Besides your argument is valid.

I guess I went with Bantam -> Osprey since they are really good ships, and the Badger is also a better industrial than the early Iterons imho, but if you want feel free to write a new section detailing the differences and I'll add it to the guide at the next version :)

clawz 2
Posted - 2006.12.20 00:52:00 - [56]
 

Quote:
The math isnt hard to do.


sure unless your 50 and computer challenged to start with Shocked

anyway Halada thaks for the time you have dediccated to this guide thing. i have used a DOmi for mining in 0.0 space to super success. I am now mining in empire using a apoc with 8 miner IIs and T2 mining drones. in all fairness i did try to figure the math thing out, ugh just aint sure if i was correct or not

again thanks for you work in this

D'kar
Minmatar
Dark Times Tech.
Posted - 2006.12.20 20:08:00 - [57]
 

Halada, I just want to say thank you for this fantastic guide to mining! You've definately put a great deal of thought into putting it together and it shows! It's also a great deal of fun to read, you're a funny guy... I almost fell out of my chair when I read the part about mining in a capital ship... ROFL!

YOU DA MAN!

Charok
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.20 22:08:00 - [58]
 

Has anyone thought of what rigs to put on a hulk... I really dont like any of the ones I have seen yet and I'm hoping someone finds a rare rig drop that helps mining ammount to put on the market.


Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2006.12.20 23:19:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Soulita on 21/12/2006 03:38:43

Halada, awesome guide!

One small but important piece of info left out in the rigs section (page 40) you say there: "You can always remove it(the rig),...,however you will loose it..."


Unfortunatly, the only way to get rid of a rig is repackaging the ship. (Theoretically reprocessing or blowing it up work as well of course Wink)

Original message you get when trying to pull a rig off your ship:

"You cannot unfit an upgrade. Once installed the ship can only be rid of them by being reprocessed or repackaged. Either of these actions which will result in the destruction of the upgrade."

This is important to know, since instead of 'just' loosing the rig you want to remove, you will also:

a) loose the insurance on your ship when repackaging (and you know platinum insurance can cost a lot of iskies depending on ship type).

b) loose all other rigs that you have fitted to the ship.


Again, awesome guide, and thanks for the work you put into this one.

Rumbaar
Solitary Forsaken
Posted - 2006.12.21 21:06:00 - [60]
 

Still a great guide.

I just wanted to point out in section 4 you don't really compare apples with apple in regards to how low the Retriever truly is compared to a Battleship for yield and protection.

With the battleships you use the skill levels Mining 4 and Astro 4 but for the Retriever you use Mining 5 and Astro 5 (which is around a 19D+ skill to get too) for the yield, also you use Barge 4 instead of 3 for the calculations.

So the true comparison for a person as about that level of training in mining would be Mining 4, Astro 4 and Barge 3.
540 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.09 * 1.05 = 889.96 m3/cycle
Omber 889.96/0.6 = 1483 to 59,320 (Barge 4 only give additional 1640 units) unit of Omber per hour which is way below the Dominix's 65,880 units per hour. So the Retriever is actually the least yield of the bunch in the section.

Or if you want to look at it another way and take the Dominix with the same stat as used for the Retriever in the guide it would gives you 71,640 Omber units per hour. Once again far above the Retriever.

The only benefit of a Retriever is it's price, and if needed Ice Harvesters. But it fall way behind the Dominix and Apoc for yield (in apples for apples comparison) and tankability.


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