open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Against Warp O
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (10)

Author Topic

Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:29:00 - [91]
 

*sighs*

because, 'dictors at gates are used to catch people coming through a gate not going through. When you jump through a gate you arrive outside of the 15km radius of the gate. Ergo, not in the 15km bubble. Therefore you need a 'dictor.

Locke DieDrake
The Arrow Project
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:33:00 - [92]
 

FIX BUBBLES AND THIS PROBLEM GOES AWAY!!!

I'm not sure how much more clearly I can say it.

If bubbles work as they should have from the start, WTZ means nothing but reasonable travel times. It's not safety, because gates would no longer be the primary scene of battles (or ganks).

Bubbles, that work correctly have these features
ArrowIf you get hit by the bubble, you get sucked into the center of it.
ArrowThe bubble should HALT all warping, when a ship passes into the bubble. Meaning, you can't warp thru a bubble, period. Which also means
ArrowBubbles pull you out of midwarp.
ArrowAnd bubbles need to work even if they went up after the warp was started, specificly dictor bubbles.

Now, I don't pretend to know what coding needs to be done. But along with all this, you need to make bubbles alot bigger. (at least some bubbles)


Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:41:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
*sighs*

because, 'dictors at gates are used to catch people coming through a gate not going through. When you jump through a gate you arrive outside of the 15km radius of the gate. Ergo, not in the 15km bubble. Therefore you need a 'dictor.


Wait a minute, so you're saying that 2 months of training and a dictor is all so you can catch shuttles and small frigates that you couldn't catch with insta lockers? Sorry that won't fly with people. Most combat happens on the other side of a gate, I'll give you that, but bubbles were used to stop people on instas as well. If a Battleship goes through a gate into your gate camp, he'll get locked down and tackled easily without the use of a bubble. Also, if he has to slow boat 15km to the gate in the first place, just have a tackler or two there to lock him down and have your whole fleet jump in from the other side. Same affect, and no need for an interdictor.


Hussain
Gallente
Azure Horizon Federate Militia
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:47:00 - [94]
 

Well this attracted a lot more of attention that I thought it would, thats good at least I put somepeople thinking about the problem.

In summary my position is this:

There was a feature (bookmarks) that probabbly were not used as intended (the vast number of them at least), it made people's life easier (mine included) so the devs having a problem (too much bookmarks) decided to officialize the effect the said bookmarks were having (I really dont believe that it was intended for bookmarks to create WTZ).

The problem in my humble view is EVE stands out becouse its hard and unforgiving (compared to all the other MMORPGs I know, and thats a lot) and this is a step towards the easier, more popular, more quieter way, my only problem is that maybe someday people will only shoot at you if you agree... and the savage frontier felling of EVE will be lost.

To end I never pirated and some of the best times playing EVE involved the 15km run.

Saying that I will use WTZ becouse its easier special for a newb like me.

Thanks,


Mistica
Cirrius Technologies
O X I D E
Posted - 2006.11.30 20:03:00 - [95]
 

Well i found out that you always have to manually warp to 0, if you travel by autopilot say, afkish, you ll warpout at 15 km :)

Grisly Ivan
Posted - 2006.11.30 20:50:00 - [96]
 

BM's and WTZ are equally silly. The people that are for WTZ stand on the platform that every one had BM's - well they were dumb too. I agree with the orginal post that this game is the most fun when you have the most to lose. I'm not seeing how WTZ adds anything expect making this game easier. Easier isn't better. I played WOW for along time - I was happy to get here and exercise my mind a little, at least tactically. I just think the easier is the wrong direction. I'd much rather be part of game were risk feels more real just my 2cents.

Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.30 21:22:00 - [97]
 

Wahh waah waah.

Am I the only one who's noticed all the people complaining are the 15m+ sp characters who probably have full galaxy G2G bm sets.

The bm copying nerf was patently unfair on new characters who couldnt aquire sanely the 1000's of bookmarks that all the old characters had. And this fixes it.

Use some skill folks. You could catch folks using instas, and you can catch folks using wtz. After this long in the game SURELY its not that hard right? right?

ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:30:00 - [98]
 

As an advocate of the anti warp to zero campaign I will continue to use insta's aswell as the new types of tactical insta.

This is not about combat there is going to be an economic knock on effect that will take a while to manifest... if ccp was seriously concerned about the issue of bookmarks on the database they would have deleted them regardless before now. There were a multitude of alternative ways of dealing with the lag without resorting to such a drastic action of this, I can't help but feel that warp to zero has been whined into existance, after all what other things in kali are prominent whine topics of the past.... limited T2 bp's and expensive markets. Warp Core Stab's been uber... infact the more and more I look at this patch it feels like a whiners patch.

As for the people that go well u have warp bubbles now... well yes they've been seeded but you can't use them in empire and you can't pull people out of mid warp which they should be able to do.

They are apparently going to be allowed in empire come the next patch.... but I wonder why ccp has decided to hold that back when its probably just a simple attribute alteration.

I can't help but feel that EVE is sneakily developing jedi syndrome.... and frankly I don't want eve to go down like that man it would be a waste of such a good game to give in like that ccp stick true to your core don't listen to the whiners. Build the game like your original vision.

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:35:00 - [99]
 

dunno... warp to 0 is not that abd... still can kill lots of stuff at gates :P solo i might add (not sniping )

adapt and you can too :)

Nanobotter Mk2
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:05:00 - [100]
 

To the OP if you played EVE since beta you would know that warp to 15km WAS NOT THE DEFAULT distance, so save the arguement that somehow 15km was a good spot and chosen by design.


Secondly you can still warp to 15km if you want to and you liked doing so, so please save the BS about warp to 0km changing YOUR GAMEPLAY.

3rd people who wanted to warp to 0km in the past did so anyways with BM's those put immense stress ont eh server and was growing worse each passing day, so again stow the entire WTZ has changed EVE gameplay when it really I mean REALLY has not changed jack beyond making what is essentially insta BM's accessible to all.


For you ishquar teh saint....

"why do you think it's a "good idea in the first place to walk across the entire map"?

the "oh ... i can buy this 30jumps away for 10% cheaper" mentality sucks.

btw - the argument "because BMs caused lag and people had to copy them" is not only applicable to WTZ, it's also applicable to WT10 in addition with a forced deletion of BMs and stopping the creation of new ones. ... the "success" of WTZ is based on the hope and the assumption that people will delete their instas themselves."


Since when does warp to zero allow you to walk across the entire map lol, it does nothing like that, and people with bookmarks already did it... also part of the strategy with the controlling of bookmarks is partly not just that people will delete but it will also SLOW the creation of bookmarks, which was a huge burden ongoing each day.

Look until you can provide an arguement showing how WTZ changed anything but accessibilty of BM's for eve there is nothing to discuss, because nothing has changed beyond that. Maybe they should have limited it to gates and stations who knows but the reality is WTZ does nothing that players were not already able to do with playermade BM's anyways so get over it.

Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Merciless.
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:14:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2

"why do you think it's a "good idea in the first place to walk across the entire map"?

the "oh ... i can buy this 30jumps away for 10% cheaper" mentality sucks.

btw - the argument "because BMs caused lag and people had to copy them" is not only applicable to WTZ, it's also applicable to WT10 in addition with a forced deletion of BMs and stopping the creation of new ones. ... the "success" of WTZ is based on the hope and the assumption that people will delete their instas themselves."


Since when does warp to zero allow you to walk across the entire map lol, it does nothing like that, and people with bookmarks already did it... also part of the strategy with the controlling of bookmarks is partly not just that people will delete but it will also SLOW the creation of bookmarks, which was a huge burden ongoing each day.

Look until you can provide an arguement showing how WTZ changed anything but accessibilty of BM's for eve there is nothing to discuss, because nothing has changed beyond that. Maybe they should have limited it to gates and stations who knows but the reality is WTZ does nothing that players were not already able to do with playermade BM's anyways so get over it.


read the quote i was answering to ...

Quote:

And if you think people would stay with Eve if they had to slowboat to every gate in 0.0 and low sec... think again. It would be like if WoW didnt have mounts, and you would have to walk across the entire map to get somewhere. You think that would be fun for players? No you dont. :)



instas are allready a "child" of this "oh ... i can buy this 30jumps away for 10% cheaper" mentality ...

if were talking about the imbalance between older and younger players caused by BMs - well WTZ evens the playfield the same as WT10. it's only more convenient.

and regarding the creation of BMs ... i bet the BM sellers are allready working on the new "300km above the gate scoutspot" sets

Mark Foley
Funny Men In Funny Hats
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:30:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Wahh waah waah.

Am I the only one who's noticed all the people complaining are the 15m+ sp characters who probably have full galaxy G2G bm sets.

The bm copying nerf was patently unfair on new characters who couldnt aquire sanely the 1000's of bookmarks that all the old characters had. And this fixes it.

Use some skill folks. You could catch folks using instas, and you can catch folks using wtz. After this long in the game SURELY its not that hard right? right?


WRONG!, and if one more person makes tht stupid assumption again ... i don't even know what i'm going to do. Also thanks to frig's/dessie's and anything else with a tiny sig stupidly long lock times it is rediculously hard to catch them or kill them any where in anything tht can take the sentry heat.YARRRR!!

Also, i hate the wt0 thing for numerous other reasons probabley already stated in here. bring em bac, but make it a legitamate part of the game rather a few shadey char's selling off escrow, nmake people WORK for their right to fast travel.


Mistica
Cirrius Technologies
O X I D E
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:36:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
....


Secondly you can still warp to 15km if you want to and you liked doing so, so please save the BS about warp to 0km changing YOUR GAMEPLAY.
......


Well they removed the warp to 15 option i thought, now you have 10 20 30 etc km. I used an insta and overshot it :)

bobzink north
Posted - 2006.12.01 00:02:00 - [104]
 

3 days and all THIS?? Blah Blah Blah - everybody shut up and play the game.

If you like it Great!!

If you don't like it Leave! (your just adding to my lag anyway)

maybe people will be encouraged to venture out of the core systems now = reducing lag.
also giving those pie-wats more targets in lowsec/nosec

Too darn many people huddling in the middle, clinging to each other anyway.

See you in Jita


NOT!!


Shagrath Xarra
Posted - 2006.12.01 00:07:00 - [105]
 

Regardless of the OPs intent or views on the topic, Gate camping and Pirating ARE issues regarding WTZ so people are going to bring them up and they ARE relevent. People trying to push these issues aside in this thread are either being narrow minded or refusing to look at the big picture because they do in fact gatecamp and pirate and are mad because WTZ was put in but are hiding that behind the "economy and speed of slow ships factors."

The truth is the playerbase had months to think up ideas to replace the BM problem which caused monumental lag but nobody came up with a viable solution or at least one that the devs thought would work better than WTZ. Many people cried about the lag and server strain. They fixed it and now you want to cry about this?...lol

Whatever your issues are with WTZ, ill just say what the board trolls are fond of saying:

"it is Darwinism, adapt or quit."




BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
Posted - 2006.12.01 00:14:00 - [106]
 

Here is another point of view - - -

I dont see it as about pirates and gatecampers. To me its about time. Finally I can enjoy moving between empire and 0.0 and do it quickly, get more gameplay in and have more fun for the game i am paying for.

Now I dont need to WASTE time between warp and jumping. Last night i got more done in 3 hours than I have in the past MONTH.

Taaketa Frist
Minmatar
Galactic Defence Consortium
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2006.12.01 00:19:00 - [107]
 

Warp to Zero has not changed my style of play. I still get other people to do the leg work for me.

Roddic
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.12.01 00:27:00 - [108]
 

im wondering if those that complain the most are also those that made a good game income from selling region BM's. or if the complainers are those that just paid a fortune for them. delete all your old gate to gate and ... to station bm's there cluttering up the server. the whole reason warp to 0 was intraduced was there where alot of people asking for it, and they gave alot of valid reasons why it would be good. how come you didn't put in a reason then.

the gate is open, the horse has bolted.......

Spiderweb
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.01 00:57:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Hussain
Hi,

I play EVE since the last days of BETA, but I consider myself a newb becouse I dont play a lot and there are months in which I dont even log, anyway here goes my opinion about the "Warp to 0" ability.

I know that many people have an allergy to shoot (I am assuming that everyone is allergic to be shot at...), that it is very easy and time effective to use Warp 0 and that everybody (not quite so) used tons of Instanjumps bookmarks. Look at my case I am a casual EVE player I never had more tham half a dozen Instanjumps bookmarks (no patience/time) my life is a lot easy on EVE now. So why the fuzz ?

I did some PVP and I do recall as some of the most enjoyable experiences in EVE 3 things : blockade running in low sec systems while keeping an eye for any pirate (even if it only an imagined threat), trying to block someone/being blocked in a system and run to a gate/starbase with someone hot on my tail or persuing someone.

Well in my opinion this is another case of "everybody does it/likes it so lets make it official" as I play a lot of MMORPGs I know this is a common thing to happen, problem is sometimes the game looses edge (adreneline rushes...whatever) with that kind of changes, like game in wich death is not heavialy penalized.

About the lag, etc caused by the Intanjumps bookmarks, why not simple deleting them from say 30km arround starbases and gates and not letting make new ones ? That would keep the rush and kill that lag problem.

I was never a pirate in EVE (but lost more tham a ship to them) and dont intent on becoming one but anyway tell a newb how can a Honest Pirate this days catch his Fat Merchant ? :)

Thanks,



Warp to 0 is the best thing that happened to EVE ever. It eases and improves and adds so much that I just cba to write them all now.


I love CCP for finally giving their Game a much more polished gameplay and easily surpassing other games in the Market.

Chimaera7
Posted - 2006.12.01 01:30:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Chimaera7 on 01/12/2006 01:35:27
Edited by: Chimaera7 on 01/12/2006 01:34:12
Edited by: Chimaera7 on 01/12/2006 01:31:35
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Originally by: Paladineguru

its already in and the devs have better things to do than listen to a SMALL minority whine because they cant figure out how to camp the other side of a gate.


i can assure you - i won't have a problem to figure out how to camp the other side of the gate.

but i have a problem if "camping the other side of the gate (or better: camping a gate at all)" is the only way to enforce non-consensual PvP.

i'm not playing EVE for camping gates, i'm playing EVE for the chase and the hunt. Wink


I don't believe it, someone who actually gets the point. It IS about the chase, warp to 0 at stations, and gates means NO point chasing. Only options in empire is gate camp (BORING) or hope that the dice rolls in your favour and when you get into the next system with the guy you are chasing he is within your warp scramble range. Otherwise continual jumping to no avail. NOT everyone had bms for every gate and station so yes... this removes the thrill of the hunt.

This also affects 0.0 hunting.... but hold on I hear people crying... "Use a bubble".... yawn... another gate camp. Ooooh can't wait.

Well done to this guy for getting the point we are trying to make.

Pooka
Caldari
United Space Aillance USA
Posted - 2006.12.01 01:34:00 - [111]
 

Confused
I've played since EnB shut down. I think wrap to 0 is win / win for everyone.

Keeep it CCP <3

Skraelingz
Gallente
Caldari Bank
Interstellar Corporate Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.01 02:16:00 - [112]
 

the gates and gate camping dynamics are a lame pvp anyway. almost like spawn camping.

SKurj
Navy of Xoc
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2006.12.01 02:48:00 - [113]
 

Personally... I am on the fence for WTZ.

I love it for travelling (in the middle of moving my operation 20 jumps), even went into 0.0 for the first time. WTZ had no impact as there were no gatecamps on the way.

The big minus for me... is that space is now empty... no more processions to gates, no chance to take a look at the other ppl wandering through space.. Well ok, in traffic jams ya get a glimpse..

I think WTZ has its good side, and its downside, eve is a little bit colder for it IMO

MMXMMX
Caldari
Bendebeukers
Green Rhino
Posted - 2006.12.01 02:55:00 - [114]
 



Adapt or die.

Cuddly Wuddly
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:33:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Cuddly Wuddly on 01/12/2006 03:39:45
It's funny how most of the people that are for WTZ are automatically equating WTZ with no gate camps. There's far more to drastically reducing travel times (freighters travel as fast as shuttles!) than "oh yay! no more gate camps!"

Only idiots, the lazy, or the very unlucky got caught in gate camps anyway. I thought EVE was supposed to be a game for smart people.

whats the point of using small ships now? My BS can travel as fast as any ship and if I stick a couple NOS on it, no smaller ship is going to have a chance. WTZ and the hp increase just undid Castor (which made EVE waaay more fun by actually giving anything < BS an actual and distinct role).

murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:43:00 - [116]
 

warp to 0km is crap. the carebears posting in this thread for warp to 0km need to take a hike. this thread is for people who don't like warp to 0km. you have your own thread. go whine elswhere.

i can't stand warp to 0km.

Edgard Clochard
Iron Shield Associates
Posted - 2006.12.01 04:52:00 - [117]
 

I've been zipping around lowsec all day in my brand new overly priced Myrmidion, spending most of that time in the home system of two corps that I'm at war with, without a care in the world, because I can't imagine losing it without doing something utterly stupid (not looking at local or scanning every so often for ships that have undocked). Kind of boring to be honest. Sad

Torze
Legion Of The Void
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:43:00 - [118]
 

Here is a suggestion for CCP. Make it so there is a 2-5 second gap between coming out of warp and being able to use the jump gate. Then make it so you can not jump through a gate if you are being warp scrambled. Would give skilled pirates and empire war players a chance to get their target.

Personally, I like warp to 0, as it just speeds up the game. Also, I'm hoping it will have an effect on the size of Jita, maybe some of that commerce will spread out a bit. I am a bit concerned with having warp to 0 for docking at stations since, in alot of ways it makes it safer and easier to just insta jump your barge/exhumer to the station to drop off ore rather than using an indy.

Thomas Maleficus
Caldari
Posted - 2006.12.01 07:08:00 - [119]
 

Quote:
im wondering if those that complain the most are also those that made a good game income from selling region BM's. or if the complainers are those that just paid a fortune for them. delete all your old gate to gate and ... to station bm's there cluttering up the server. the whole reason warp to 0 was intraduced was there where alot of people asking for it, and they gave alot of valid reasons why it would be good. how come you didn't put in a reason then.


Here here!! No more insta fortunes by selling insta sets for millions, no more nerfed insta copying causing said fortunes to increase due to sellers charging more for the lost afk copying. I think they did a good thing with wt0 and killed a rediculous source of very easy iskies that also was highly susceptible to scamming.
.

Varis
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.12.01 08:15:00 - [120]
 

I never gate camp - i never sold BM sets, and sometimes spend many many days making insta-routes. I operated in low sec and zero sec, going past and sometimes being stopped by gatecamps regularly. I also fly big slow ships like battleships when needed.

Currently, WTZ makes it easier for me to get my gear across the galaxy for the next base of operations etc.

I STILL hate wtz. IT IS NOT (just) ABOUT COMBAT.

I like my choices in setups to make a difference. Not i may as well always setup full combat settings, or max out cargo - i still get there just as fast 99% of the time as a specialised setup.

I like variety in the market - having local hubs - but now why would anyone bother when its easier to just travel an extra 10-20 jumps to a major trade hub and get everything - and increase lag.

please note - wtz and instas are the same in my book - they have similar game-mechanic effects and introducing wtz hasnt changed any of the game-mechanic problems inherent in instas.


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (10)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only