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Robet Katrix
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.11.30 05:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Robet Katrix on 30/11/2006 05:57:42
Edited by: Robet Katrix on 30/11/2006 05:52:52
Edited by: Robet Katrix on 30/11/2006 05:51:00
Edited by: Robet Katrix on 30/11/2006 05:49:28
hello,

I am a mission runner, (my dirty little secret) and I have a problem, cause I can no longer make an income doing so.

Let me first start by making several points for the flamers that will inevitably come into this thread,
#1 I am a PVPer, I ran missions as an easy source on income when i had half an hour.
#2 I run missions in low-sec. The rewards are better, and if your smart(which i consider myself to be) you can avoid most risk. Plz note i have lost 3 Ravens in 3 months in low-sec. 1 to lag, 2 to gate camps.
#3 I have no issue being at risk in low-sec. I dont mind being a target, as long as i CAN run before im caught.
#4 I have access to 0.0 which is less risky that low-sec BEFORE revelations


Saying this i did some tests, I initiated a mission in Otsasai, where I and many other people run missions. I loaded a raven up with stabs and warped to the mission. ( a mission where you go through a gateway before seeing hostiles)

I then waited at the entrance and scanned non-stop for probes. It took seven minutes for probes to go down within range. I promptly warped out.

I did so again and it took ten minutes. I warped out.

So, your saying, so what big deal you warped out. well, here is the thing, it IS a big deal, because it takes me on average 20-30 minutes to complete a mission and there is no human way i can check the scanner every minute. I currently check it every 2-3 and that alone is very consumming. when you enter a mission you also loose the ability to warp out most times as npc's like to scramble.

So I cant run missions, because the pirate prober can now do what might have taken twenty minutes for A SKILLED prober can be done in 5 by anyone.

I dont see any way to fix it and I can't understand why anyone would continue to try and run missions in low-sec anymore.

So I'm a tad annoyed, cause i have a whole lot of junk mission gear now, and no use for it.

The way this is going is this. No more targets = unhappy pirates, it may be the mission runners *****ing now, but its going to be the pirates soon.

Im not going to move to high-sec because it jsut feels like too much of a step down, and in comparison to 0.0 it doesn't compare well enough.

I know I'm not the only one who recognizes this as a problem, but what can we do?

Draconia Blackheart
Disciples of the Underverse
Posted - 2006.11.30 06:06:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 30/11/2006 06:07:40
Originally by: Robet Katrix

I know I'm not the only one who recognizes this as a problem, but what can we do?


What can we do? Say goodbye to low-sec and listen to the pirates complain there are no more targets. Of course, they will 'Adapt' and find a way to 'have thier fun' in high sec without risk.

Some have stated to use scanner to find people in dead space...will concord do anything in dead space? other to find people in low sec missions and kill them during a mission..Real fun aye?

or CCP will force everyone into low sec by stripping the benefits of high-sec bare (and lose a good deal of the population)

I feel your pain..Have fun (while it lasts)

And Flamers, ovibously you have mistaken me for someone that gives a ****


Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.30 06:30:00 - [3]
 

hey hey

yes 100% agree. I never liked to run missions in low sec pre revelations cause (as i see it) low sec is consensual PvP and blah blah yes low sec has pie potential etc.

now they release new and mighty probes . . . kiss goodbye low sec altogether. Probes seem to be designed specificly to hunt out a mission runner. "targets" are way more intelegent (hopefully) to manages to get themselves probed out. the New Probe system certainly seems to be Very Very Anti Mission Runner.

Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2006.11.30 06:46:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Robet Katrix

Im not going to move to high-sec because it jsut feels like too much of a step down, and in comparison to 0.0 it doesn't compare well enough.

I know I'm not the only one who recognizes this as a problem, but what can we do?


I feel your pain bro, because I am in the exact same boat. I enjoyed low sec missions because they were a viable vacation from the constant stream of PvP in 0.0.

It's all good though as I will probably migrate back out to 0.0 for my income soon.

Sylper Illysten
Caldari
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
Posted - 2006.11.30 06:59:00 - [5]
 

I for one won't even be running missions in 1.0 space until CCP fix missions such as The Blockade to at least make them doable without level 5 skills and a pimped out ship. But then again I get the feeling that CCP really couldn't care less about teh casual player/mission runner.

spiderbaby
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.30 07:38:00 - [6]
 

Yeah Otsasai is a joke. Idiots like GURIS and DSOTM have cut their own throats by making it too dangerous for mission running any more.

Do what 95% of lvl 4 Caldari mission runners have done and move to Motsu. Then you've only got to be aware that Lofty operates there and never, ever, ever join any gangs with anyone except your own alts. Oh and ofc welcome to the lag-fest from Hell.

If (when) CCP remove lvl 4 agents from high-sec then prepare to see EVE's subscriber base fall by 50%, but hey, when you've got a serial and self-confessed griefer like TomB running the show after the decent devs moved to the (failing) China cluster what do you expect?

LC Sulla
Caldari
House Mekarae
Posted - 2006.11.30 09:00:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: LC Sulla on 30/11/2006 09:00:25
Know where you are coming from...

Like Robet and Tribunal, I am also from a 0.0 alliance and come back to low-sec for a little mission running from time to time. It does seem to be much more dangerous now with the new probes. Once the overview is full of mission rats you just can't see who is around and it's just a pain to constantly flick between overview settings to check for probes.

But here is the real gripe. It's risk vs. reward and 0.0 is more rewarding and much less risky. On a good day we can make about 20Mill ISK / hour belt ratting in deep 0.0. Add top named loot to the mix like eutetic caps and arbi launchers and you can get 30-40M / hour (on a good day). Haven't really calculated but I don't think you get as much running lvl4 high quality agents in low sec. Thing is deep 0.0 is so much more safe than low-sec because most of the time there are only 1 or 2 pilots in local.

Seems an imbalance to me.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2006.11.30 10:54:00 - [8]
 

not really..
see, those 30 m/h you and another pilot in your system are making is made per whole system, so if you had 2 times more pilots, rewards would be 2 times less for each of you etc. as for the missions, their rewards are divided between much more ppl and now shared with pirates as well :)
I guess soon only pirates will ever run missions in low sec, as they will have nothing to do anymore due to the lack of targets :)

Kirja
R.U.S.H
Red Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:35:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Kirja on 30/11/2006 11:37:46
Originally by: Robet Katrix

and if your smart(which i consider myself to be) you can avoid most risk.


If you are smart (which you consider yourself to be) then you adapt. You change your playing stuff, find other things to do or organize locals to defend your place.

You saying there is a lot of people missioning? Well, create the common channel for ppl you trust. Once pirates show on send a SOS, gang your mates, some warp to you, others block the gates and somebody scans for their safe spots, then just eradicate the pirates. Make it so that the pirates do not even dare to enter your system. Or if you unable to do that move on. Find another activity which will bring you more iskies. But thats only if you are smart.

But smart people don come here with *I quit* posts.

LC Sulla
Caldari
House Mekarae
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe
not really..
see, those 30 m/h you and another pilot in your system are making is made per whole system, so if you had 2 times more pilots, rewards would be 2 times less for each of you etc.

No no no... The respawn rates seem to be effected by the number of people in the system and traffic in general. So this is not divided at all. This is how much we earn regardless of the number of people in the system (unless it's a stupid amount of people - very rare). So it's really independent of the number of people in a system. If anything I get more when more people are also ratting because better spawns appear. When I am the only one in system it's often when I earn the least.

Tadis
Gallente
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:46:00 - [11]
 

I raised this concern with my corp mates pre-patch.

We're lucky enough to have some superb probers in corp, but now their toned skills are wasted, because of the simplicity of probing.

And people like mission runners are now the victim of some very easy ganking heh.

So pirates might say "we loose out because of warp to 0" but oh, they gain so much more with the probing.

Draem
VexX.
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:55:00 - [12]
 

Boycott lowsec missions?

Arnt
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:57:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Arnt on 30/11/2006 11:58:11
I'm out of low sec missions.

I've been found and slaugthered before, and I was ok with that. But now it's just pointless.

Oh and 'adapt etc carebears etc...' replys only bring in my mind a nice STFU for their authors as they should get a clue of what the situation has become.

CCP has just put a nice 'OH YEAH **** ME IN THE ***!' sign on low sec mission runners.

Have a nice day.

Robet Katrix
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2006.11.30 12:10:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Robet Katrix on 30/11/2006 12:10:37
Originally by: Kirja
Edited by: Kirja on 30/11/2006 11:37:46
Originally by: Robet Katrix

and if your smart(which i consider myself to be) you can avoid most risk.


If you are smart (which you consider yourself to be) then you adapt. You change your playing stuff, find other things to do or organize locals to defend your place.

You saying there is a lot of people missioning? Well, create the common channel for ppl you trust. Once pirates show on send a SOS, gang your mates, some warp to you, others block the gates and somebody scans for their safe spots, then just eradicate the pirates. Make it so that the pirates do not even dare to enter your system.


I'm already saying im changing, did you READ the post?

As to trying to fight pirates in a mission hub, get a reality check. There are two if not three pirate CORPS based out of that system, and maybe 20-50 mission runners total. And to be honest, any intel channel you create will be infiltrated within a day, and you'll soon find those your ganging are the ones killing you. Obviously you dont run many missions in low-sec.


Quote:
Find another activity which will bring you more iskies. But thats only if you are smart.

But smart people don come here with *I quit* posts.


not reading the whole post ftl mate.

Squire Valiant
Posted - 2006.11.30 12:17:00 - [15]
 

It appears that within eve there are so many different factors to consider that mission running will never be as it was in low sec. pirates are everywhere and more than ever out number any anti pirate alliances, and cover vastly more space than the anti pirate corps too, the fact of the matter is that there's never going to be an adequate balance between mission runners and pirates. The only way to combat it in my own opinion is to balance out pvp and pve equipment on your ship, checking bonuses so that they provide an adequate boost for both pve and pvp items. This isn't an ideal situation for mission runners but may be the only way for them to continue in low sec; become smarter than the pirates.

Larsson7
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.30 12:24:00 - [16]
 

Even though a corp mate of mine has started this post - I have to say that I can see both sides to this problem.

Black Rabbits are a role playing corp with the aim of defening the Gurista Pirates. Within this role they will have obvious targets of mission runners who ply their trade with the Caldari State. These guys are just playing the game with a twist and trying to invent something for themselves. Sure, they will pop mission runners, however, they will also attack other pirates (like DSOTM) and just use the Mito area as their area of operations.

DSOTM and Momentum are pirate corps and this is what they pay their subscription to do in much the same way that mission runners pay their sub to PvE. They are not doing anything wrong. At the end of the day its a question of balance - and its finding that balance that is important.

I do feel though that Robet (and several others) have got one thing right - scanning people down now is just way too fast. Like a lot of new released features this may well be revisited by CCP and adjusted as most people can scan out any mission spot in under 5 mins. Most times this is done by a cov-ops in a starter corp. Once your mission spot is busted you find a group of fast movers in damps, scrams, webs just get on top of you before you can say "Boo"

Despite this it is still possible to avoid getting killed unnecessarily. For instance - those players with 2 accounts can leave an alt at the deadspace entrance in a shuttle. Once the spot is busted you gain that extra time to get aligned and get out.

Keep your scanner opened at all times. Even on a minimum setting just keep hitting it as often as possible. Doing this is nothing short of essential in low sec now.

The real fear for the game is that pirates want low sec populated, however, with the new scanning that has been introduced this may mean low sec becoming more abandoned than ever.

Nikla Uthaan
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.30 13:07:00 - [17]
 

Well, I've been a long-term mission runner, and although i acknowledge the threat of scan probes etc,, alot of people have said they fell victim pre-revelations very often. I've actually never had an encounter yet,, maybe i'm lucky, but i'll spend 3 hours on Guristas extravaganza and not see a single pirate, with 50 in local.

Dasigin
Minmatar
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.11.30 13:32:00 - [18]
 

A good example i think would be fishing.

Pirates fish for prey.

As the old system worked, pirates could only use a single line, and generally only caught something on decent basis if they were a skilled fisherman.

As it stands now, anyone can drag-net low-sec of mission runners.

It's just too simple

Orion Shurtak
Amarr
Mission Runners United
Overtime Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:01:00 - [19]
 

A fix for peeps scanning out your deadspace area and showing up during your mission, would be to have the gate lock once you warp through. It will stay locked to anyone but the mission runner and anyone in gang with him/her.

It could work the same way for a complex. Once someone is inside it's locked to anyone else until that person warps out. Now I'm sure your thinking that someone could then sit in all day and just kill the rats as they spawn. CCP would need to set it up so there are no respawns until that player has left.

It's something that could be done, but probably wont.

Slevin Kalebra
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:36:00 - [20]
 

The new scanning system certainly puts the initiative into the hands of the pirate gank squads.... any worries about the 'warp to zero' issue are more than adequately compensated by this.

The only option I can think of right now (short of reducing the effectiveness of the scanning system) is to run missions as a group. Either have a 'close escort' in the mission area with you - sharing the rewards, or a dedicated 'high guard' unit serving as a rapid response force to a number of mission runners in the system (for a price). They can either move between a number of safespots or actively hunt down pirates in the system. Wheher you can trust the anti-pirate squad... well that's easier if you are in the same corp as them I guess, or maybe there are corps out there who have already built a reputation for being trustworthy guardians.

Butter Dog
Gallente
The Monocled Elite
Posted - 2006.11.30 15:00:00 - [21]
 

Lowsec is a rich honeypot for mission runners.

If you want those riches, you accept the risks that go with it.

This is not a solo game. Adapt. Or move back to empire. The choice, clearly, is yours.

Either way, cut out the whining. Lowsec mission runners have been invulnerable for far too long.

Larsson7
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.30 15:14:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Butter Dog
Lowsec is a rich honeypot for mission runners.

If you want those riches, you accept the risks that go with it.

This is not a solo game. Adapt. Or move back to empire. The choice, clearly, is yours.

Either way, cut out the whining. Lowsec mission runners have been invulnerable for far too long.


Well thats us all told Rolling Eyes

I love ill-informed, non-entities butting into a thread that they clearly have no clue about.

LC Sulla
Caldari
House Mekarae
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:07:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: LC Sulla on 30/11/2006 17:08:32
Originally by: Butter Dog
Lowsec is a rich honeypot for mission runners.

If you want those riches, you accept the risks that go with it.

This is not a solo game. Adapt. Or move back to empire. The choice, clearly, is yours.

Either way, cut out the whining. Lowsec mission runners have been invulnerable for far too long.

I think you soooo missed the point. Lowsec is NOT a rich honeypot at all. 0.0 is both much more lucrative (in terms of ratting - earn more than level 4 high quality agents) and considerably safer because there are only 1-2 people in the system. You can see them as they enter. Lowsec has too many people coming and going to keep track of, too many pirates and is FAR more dangerous than any deep 0.0 system. Any decent 0.0 alliance has intel channels and you know well in advance that a hostile is aproaching, often 5-6 system out. Plenty of time to get to safety or get your pvp ship. You're in ISS so you should know that.

It's risk vs. reward. Lowsec is average-good rewards for very high risk. 0.0 on the other hand is excellent reward in near perfect safety. I don't think this is what was intended and I don't think this will encourage people to make the big jump from high sec to low sec.

Arlen Warstadt
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:36:00 - [24]
 

How ironic that somehow no-sec space (effectively 0.0 and "lower") is now safer than low-sec space. As for me, I've run missions in low-sec for awhile now under the protection of an anti-piracy alliance (who I wish to thank graciously for their presence), but even with them around, I've been considering moving out of low-sec since the change to probes and scanning. The jury's still out on this one for me and I'll probably wait to see how this pans out for a week or two, but the move to high-sec may just be the only way to go since I have no access to no-sec. Sad really.


 

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