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blankseplocked Wrecks - loot or salvage, not both.
 
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chernobly
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:18:00 - [121]
 

if i recall correctly, salvaging was supposed to be a mini-profession, meaning that you should have someone in your corp who you can pass on a bookmark to, & they'd go off & loot/salvage for you after an engagement. you could charge them for whatever goodies they turn up, or they could pass them back to you & charge you for the service.

chernobly
Gallente
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:22:00 - [122]
 

in any case, it makes perfect sense to require salvaging skill for regular lootng, although this will probably not be considered, as it would put newer players at quite a severe disadvantage

Rafein
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:44:00 - [123]
 

What i would like to see done to salvaging.

1. Either greatly increase base chance, or make it always work. Nothing sucks more than running 6-7 cycles on a wreck, then still not getting anything. Personally, i would prefer it always works, and your skills determine your yield.

2. Make ships sizes matter for riggings. Frigs should give out, say, Frigs 0-2, Destroyers 0-3, Cruisers 0-4, BC 1-5, BS 1-6 salvagable units, respecivly.

3. Like everyone else says, a way to tell between empty and full wrecks. Makes looting faster.

Drek Grapper
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.11.30 11:49:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Kittsy
I'm really disliking the wrecks myself.. utter pain to go through and loot everything, and half the time there's nothing to loot anyways. So you spend ten minutes bouncing between wrecks for absolutely no reason and blow a bunch of time. Meh... I "do" rather like the idea of wrecks and cans though. If it has loot, boom out pops the classic loot can as the ship explodes and leaves a wreck beside it, if not, everything is lost and just the wreck is left behind, would simplify things so much for those who have no urge to mess around with salvage themselves. :)


I second this. Cans for loot...wrecks for salvage. Easy peasy, problem solved.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.30 12:10:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Rafein
What i would like to see done to salvaging.

1. Either greatly increase base chance, or make it always work. Nothing sucks more than running 6-7 cycles on a wreck, then still not getting anything. Personally, i would prefer it always works, and your skills determine your yield.

2. Make ships sizes matter for riggings. Frigs should give out, say, Frigs 0-2, Destroyers 0-3, Cruisers 0-4, BC 1-5, BS 1-6 salvagable units, respecivly.

3. Like everyone else says, a way to tell between empty and full wrecks. Makes looting faster.


I'm fine with the speed as it is, IF there is a good enough price on the items to make it worth while. Currently it's impossible to tell (the normal crowd of idiots have their 1 ISK buy orders out) but the collection procedure takes at LEAST an hour.

Regarding paying for salvaging rights...sure, I'd pay to salvage someone's mission...but no more than 1,000 ISK. I mean think about it

1. There'd be plenty of chancers giving out blank bookmarks and just keeping the ISK

2. Even if it's genuine, there's no guarantee as to what you will actually find

3. It takes as long to salvage the mission as it did to run it in the first place (longer than salvaging your own, since you can't tractor other people's wrecks - any chance you could allow this CCP?)

4. What does the mission runner lose by NOT giving you the bookmark? It's not as if they are going to go back and salvage it themselves, or they wouldn't be offering the bookmark in the first place, would they?

Necrosmith
Gallente
Chunder Corp
Posted - 2006.11.30 12:11:00 - [126]
 

Changing color of a looted wreck is a good idea, but not good enough.

You really need to be able to filter out looted wrecks from the overview too.

Kra Martel
Caldari
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2006.11.30 12:29:00 - [127]
 

I agree, Wrecks with loot should have a different icon (and/or colour too maybe, but mind the people with colour blindness) to wrecks without.

The overview filter is a must too. People might still want to loot during a fight, but I doubt anyone would be interested in salvaging... Let the people who want to salvage come back in a salvage ship with a salvage overview.

JeanPierre
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:00:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 30/11/2006 00:40:38
Originally by: Mister Poopypants
My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?
Hard to tell right now...what I can tell you is what I've done...

Level 4 Vengeance (Guristas)...took 3 and a half hours to loot and salvage fully
Level 4 Worlds Collide (Guristas/Serpentis)...took 3 and a half hours to loot and salvage fully.

If you want to see what I salvaged, go here, but I have no idea what it is worth as yet.


Neat.

I'm looking @ salvaging like I look at deep core mining. Not for everybody, and if you don't do it, you still don't really lose anything (since you're still getting your regular loot "cans" albeit now a part of the wreckage itself). The materials from this aren't really useable in a whole lot of areas, excepting the obvious (rig production coming immediately to mind). So for us uber-industry type characters, it's worth the time investment and hassle, for you combat types, it's probably not. Really, why everybody thinks it has to pay off for everybody evenly is beyond me. It's a mini-professional skill of sorts, nothing more. Not everybody can deep core mine either, yet they can mine normally, yet I don't see any complaints about being "cheated of my share of the spoils" or whatever from miners.

The actual implementation of it is a bit borked, but reading through the thread it appears that it's going to be addressed, so really, that's not a big deal at this point, just a minor inconvenience. Really, looks like a lot of fun, I've already purchased quite a few rigging BPO's in anticipation of getting out there and salvaging. :)

corvalar maltoff
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:15:00 - [129]
 

based on the replies:
we should have salvage and loot.
loot = cans
salvage = wrecks
also maybe scrap metal drones.
once a wreck has been completely stripped of salvage you can send your drones out, drop a container and let them fill it up. just an idea.

Phrixus Zephyr
MEK Enterprises
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:29:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur

- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)



Neutral

Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!




Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something... Sad


So i've already trained Survey 5 for what?

JeanPierre
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:40:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr
Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur

- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)



Neutral

Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!




Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something... Sad


So i've already trained Survey 5 for what?


The highest end survey probes. It has another use, that skill. Look into it. It rocks.

Pantheon Lea
Farmer Boyz
Posted - 2006.11.30 14:55:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Mister Poopypants
My question would be this: If I run a lvl 4 mission that drops maybe 30 cans, would I get enough from salvaging the wrecks to justify the time invested, or would I be better off simply looting (I have a dedicated hauler character) and then completing the mission in order to quickly move on to the next?


You will always be make more ISK farming missions the quickest way possible, that includes no looting and only doing those few missions that gives the best ISK/hour ratio.

However, ISK is not what i define as rich gameplay, when you round 10 billion ISK in the wallet and investments are covering your daily ISK needs, nothing seems to matter anymore and you will find yourself addicted to a very dull and monotone way of playing the game.

I have been there, suffered and finally worked it out, but a lot of my friends did not make it, and are no longer around, only trace of them is the fat wallets they left behind, the ISK did not come to any use at all....

Oneye Zheng
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2006.11.30 15:01:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Oneye Zheng on 30/11/2006 15:25:59
Wrecks and salvaging sound like a great addition to the game and add more depth and stuff for folks to like industry to play with.

This openís up some fun with belt Ratting, Mining, Salvaging gangs or just salvagers flying around doing their thing. Which sounds great.

Also there is the mission player that would like to enjoy the opportunity to salvage some of the wrecks he created on his mission as well, and this is where it gets a bit rough for him/her time wise if nothing else.

For instance, If you are in a Battleship you already want to fit a tractor beam because trying to loot a mission without it is pretty rough.
Now fitting a Salvaging unit in another high slot is going to slow you down a bit further taking away DPS or any other useful high slot mod you could fit there.

What if you are running missionís in a ship with less high slots and you want to salvage your wrecks? Ships that didnít need to give up a high slot before ex. Frigates because they can maneuver to the cans well, now would need to for a salvaging unit.
Personally I, like many others donít enjoy flying back with a fast Frig to pick up loot in any mission, so on my Battleship I fit a tractor. I can concede that the faster time I can complete a mission with a Frig would balance out the time going back with a salvager if I had to.

Now, I am not saying I have perfect solutions here for any of these possible scenarios, I am just requesting that the Devís take a deeper look at this new content and how to mesh it with current game play.

However some ideaís that come to my mind are:
Battleship sized combo tractor beams/salvaging units
Salvaging Drones
Tow Cable Rig for Frigs to drag wrecks (Makes flying back with a slower salvager less of a timesink)

Just some thought from a few month old newbie.
-1i

Minarleth
Posted - 2006.11.30 15:09:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Minarleth on 30/11/2006 15:09:50
I say you make wrecks scannable.
Either with a standard Ship scanner or create a new Wreck Scanner and the skills that come with it.

You know where to put your efforts when looting and theres less flying from wrecks to wrecks. Kinda makes the Tractor useless tough, or at the least not as usefull.

Karo Kezo
Posted - 2006.11.30 15:41:00 - [135]
 

I hope that all that mineral won't be wasted around the wrecks. we can realy recycle those a lot®!

Jason Marshall
Gallente
Mad Bombers
Guns and Alcohol
Posted - 2006.11.30 15:49:00 - [136]
 

can someone point me to the place where the devs say they are lowering the skill reqs....cause ive spent the last 3 days training survey.....and this it think is going to **** me off =\.

Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:04:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Slevin Kalebra
Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. But tt would also make sense if you could choose to 'self' destruct a wreck once you had taken as much from it as you wanted. On the other hand, leaving wrecks in belts for scavengers to come along and pick over is kinda cool too... although it would be even better if there was a timer on the wreck that allowed anyone to loot it without getting flagged as a can thief.



You can always just shoot the wrecks...

JeanPierre
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:08:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Jason Marshall
can someone point me to the place where the devs say they are lowering the skill reqs....cause ive spent the last 3 days training survey.....and this it think is going to **** me off =\.


It was said on the Ships and Modules subforum, but I don't have a link, mostly because I'm lazy. But I did in fact see it, in print, from a Dev, on a public thread. It's happening.

Content Addition Vetrans know not to trust initial skill requirements or mod statistics the first few days after a release. Very Happy

Suck it up and move on. If you're close to Survey V already, finish it out, it's a great open door to using the highest level scan/survey probes.

ShaffGT
The Lost Legion
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:16:00 - [139]
 

CCP,
throw out wreckage or make loot=can, salvage=wreckage ,

use bit brain, why got wreckage if nothing drop/salvage ?

shaff,

JazmanKills
New Eden Combats Industries and Advanturers.
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:20:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Slevin Kalebra
Having wrecks remain for after looting the modules makes sense... the 'whole' mods are stripped first, then the damaged ones are stripped of useful components. But tt would also make sense if you could choose to 'self' destruct a wreck once you had taken as much from it as you wanted. On the other hand, leaving wrecks in belts for scavengers to come along and pick over is kinda cool too... although it would be even better if there was a timer on the wreck that allowed anyone to loot it without getting flagged as a can thief.



You can always just shoot the wrecks...


It was mentioned by Oveur on page 1 of this thread...
****************************************************************
Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:

- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted)
- Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable)
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
- No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)

Idami Raptor
Gallente
E.A.D Alliance
Omega Vector
Posted - 2006.11.30 16:55:00 - [141]
 

The part I dislike most, rather than the wrecks themselves, or even the fact that you can't tell which you've checked already(which is going to be fixed soon), is the stealth nerf to loot drop rates that went in Simultaneously. It completely shafts lowbies, especially with the absurdly high prereqs for salvagers... I cannot wait for those to come down next week.

Fact is though, running missions, I was making as much, or more, from the loot as I was from the missions or the bounties. So far today, My rate for actually getting any loot has been signifigantly less than 1 in 10. Previously, almost every pirate dropped a can which almost always contained something, even if it was just a civvie shield booster.

Going to be a lot harder to get anywhere with this loot rate nerf.

Megas Alkaia
Minmatar
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:19:00 - [142]
 

Are you sure drop rates were nerfed? I didn't notice this at all.

I have done a number of missions and the loot seems about the same. If anything officer spawns in missions seem more common so loot is slightly improved... but I don't really ahve enough data points to say if that is truly so or not.

Lucius Ventrue
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:23:00 - [143]
 

I have developed a fix for this, after loot, nuke it ;)

Unfortantly i now use 1 more torp or cruise per loot now, guess it can get expensive and break down my bottom line at the end of the day wasting that much more ammo, esp T2 ammo

Caliwyrm O'Libr
Token Ring Assembly
Posted - 2006.11.30 18:10:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Megas Alkaia
Are you sure drop rates were nerfed? I didn't notice this at all.

I have done a number of missions and the loot seems about the same. If anything officer spawns in missions seem more common so loot is slightly improved... but I don't really ahve enough data points to say if that is truly so or not.


I certainly think they have been. I ran about a dozen each of L2 and L3 missions in Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar space and, pre-patch, I would fill my hold on the different ____ Extravaganza missions. Not so post patch.. In fact on 1 L3 Angel Extravaganza I got an amazing *4* items from ships (however the Silo loot seemed to be untouched).

The other mission runners in my corp have all noticed incredidly lowered amounts of loot as well.

Mysticaa
Gallente
Fringe Roamers of Goa
Posted - 2006.11.30 18:14:00 - [145]
 

So if the requirements for salvaging are changing could a DEV come post what the new pre-reqs will be! Please Cool

Senmar
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:38:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: JeanPierre
Originally by: Jason Marshall
can someone point me to the place where the devs say they are lowering the skill reqs....cause ive spent the last 3 days training survey.....and this it think is going to **** me off =\.


It was said on the Ships and Modules subforum, but I don't have a link, mostly because I'm lazy...


You really need to read threads before you post to them. Oveur mentioned the changes IN THIS THREAD!


Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:26:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:

- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted)
- Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable)
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
- No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)




Please just make empty, salvaged wrecks vanish.

You guys might've helped the servers by killing instas, but you're going to just kill the server when there's millions of wrecks lying around.Wink

Artemis Aeneas
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:37:00 - [148]
 

There should be 2 different icons:

1 - Wrecks with loot.
2 - Wrecks without loot or already salvagable.

Ehranavaar
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:49:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: Oveur
We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.


Very Happy greatly appreciate that little improvement. makes belt ratting a pain if you cannot tell which of the assorted wrecks floating about are worth looking at.
thanks for kali btw.

Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:52:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Megas Alkaia
Are you sure drop rates were nerfed? I didn't notice this at all.


Out of 30 0.1sec roid rats I killed last night I got 4 with loot in the wreckage.


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