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blankseplocked Wrecks - loot or salvage, not both.
 
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FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2006.11.29 18:40:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: FeralShadow on 29/11/2006 18:40:30
well here's a few easy ways to keep track of the wrecks that are yours:

1. after you pop a rat, immediately fly over to the wreck that appeared. That way after each pop, you will know which wreck is yours to loot. Just watch the rat get popped in space, click on the wreck, and click approach.

2. If doing #1 isn't possible, after popping a wreck, simply rename it. Then, after all rats are popped, you know which wrecks are yours by a simple refresh of the overview.

These options really take maybe 5 seconds of time, especially if you rename your wrecks, and using that method, you dont have to stop attacking the enemies, nor do you have to sort through all the numerous wrecks in space.

SolarWindWalker
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:04:00 - [62]
 

Gee silver spoons and platters. Embarassed
A battle field full of useless splatters.
Oh My, Oh My, where has all my loot gone?
To some pendantic scavanger slug YARRRR!!
That took the time to do what I should have done.ugh
My oh My what is EVE coming to ?
I want it Wham bam thank You mam!Shocked
Crying or Very sad

Rubelicon
Caldari
Slug Storm Squadron
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:09:00 - [63]
 

As of last night you could not rename. When chosing the rename option it would tell you that you cannot rename this object. I have read that if your in a gang you can tag it but if not there is nothing you can do.

Treelox
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:21:00 - [64]
 

i miss the way the "can" window would close after I looted from it. I would be very much in favor of cans for loot and wrecks for salavaging.

Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:43:00 - [65]
 

So far, I like the wrecks. They're interesting, and they add another dimension to my game. However, I've not had the time to run any missions yet, or the joy of flying into a field of the things. With that in mind, both by myself looking forward, and to anyone reading:

1. I'm already in love with the suggestion to make looted wrecks a separate overview item. The change in icon should predicate this -- if it looks different, it should be different. This has advantages for both groups involved in wreck manipulation: Those people who are creating the wrecks no longer have to worry about the ones they've looted; those people who are removing the wrecks no longer have to worry about the ones which haven't been looted. The different icons is a good start to this, but let's face it: Most of us navigate via the overview, and we want as little clutter on it as possible. If given the magical ability to remotely determine if there's loot via one part of the HUD, then the other should be just as competent.

2. I saw that wrecks are no longer going to be perma-anchored. It'd be nice if impacting a wreck should have a noticeable, but not overwhelming, impact on the ship's momentum. Bumping into a wreck should throw you off course some, but not send you flying off at 90 or 180 degrees. Is this the case? Or is bumping a wreck going to stop us in our tracks? Because warping out of a scrap yard should be harder, but not impossible, and flying straight through them shouldn't be like trying to find the Minotaur. In other words, a field of wrecks should (in my mind -- a place which often doesn't reflect reality) be a bumpy road, not a prison cell.

These two things when combined, I feel, would make the introduction of salvaging as a new mini-profession much more seamless. First and foremost, it pretty much spells out to people complaining that it's more difficult for them to reap the bounty of their labours (i.e. combat pilots and mission runners) that wrecks aren't a free buff to their pocket books. Extra effort is to be expended to receive extra loot, as noted by the fact that looted wrecks no longer appear in their overview.

Secondly, it severely reduces the impact on those people who create the wrecks. Lowering this impact reduces or removes the feeling of entitlement, since creating wrecks doesn't impede their ability to create new ones. If you destroy 20 ships, and have to take extra time to figure out what you've looted, and then how to get around the empty rotting husks once you're done, you income-per-time shoots down. You are doing extra work for no reward then, and have backdoor-nerfed combat missions.

Manus Ghostface
Caldari
Oberon Incorporated
Prime Orbital Systems
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:43:00 - [66]
 

Easy way to make it visually noticeable which wreck has been looted.


Flames or heat spots on the wrecks that go out when they are looted.

Hot wreck, check, cold wreck ignore.


Cadman Weyland
Irn Bru Crew
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:56:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Zartmann



Yes ! I'm a dedicated professional mission runner - that's what is fun for me in EVE
Yes ! I'm a Carebear Pilot ! So What ?
Yes ! Revelations totaly ruined my EVE experience (Can't loot no more it's a total mess)
Yes ! I'm totaliy pis***d with this TIME CONSUMING way of working, I can make my normal ISK income because in Revelations my lvl 4 missions takes 5 times more to complete the way a think it's correct (collecting all my desearved loot !)
Yes ! I'll quit EVE (several accounts) because it's absolutly NO FUN to spend my limited PLAY=FUN time searching and entangled with dozen stupids empty wrecks that I don't have skills or interest in salvage !
And, finaly NO - ABOSOLUTLY NOT - YOU CAN NOT HAVE MAY STUFF !
rable rable rable rable!!!
Please CCP, Get a grip on this situation TODAY !!!!Twisted Evil



omg thats so sad

Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.29 19:56:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Oveur
We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.


That sound really nice.

Got a question about it though, will all the wrecks be assigned 'unlooted' before you have opened them, even if wreck contains no loot? Or will only wreck 'with' loot be assigned some color code, and empty wreck be left blank??

Sheha
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:14:00 - [69]
 

Okay - so a blown up ship casually deploying a pristine can of loot was slightly preposterous - but at least it was simple and it worked and the cans neatly popped into nothing when you'd grabbed your booty.

NOW - We have wrecks. Okay, they're more realistic... BUT!!!

Please tell me just how you are to identify WHICH wreck you've looted? Yes there's a RANT coming...

I just did part one of an L3 mission and was surrounded by 20plus wrecks... so I start checking for loot. Grab the odd mod here and there and then ended up totally baffled as to which Wreck still had stuff in and which didn't. The ONLY solution to this is to shoot every wrecks while they're still right by your ship - otherwise you have no way of knowing which you have been to already.

The Wrecks should at LEAST be TAGGABLE - or Change COLOUR when looted.
At the moment you cannot even 'set name' to identify which you have looked at.

The Wrecks are there for credibility (as opposed to cans), for Invention (?) materials and for Salvage... BUT again... What about people who don't want to train Salvage? It's not compulsory. What if some folks are happy just to loot the mods and take mission rewards and move on?
Not everyone will want to use a Rig slot and/or a High Slot for Salvage equipment on their Uber-Fitted Mission Ships but even if they don't they will still be surrounded by 20-30 wrecks with no way of identifying which they've looted.

IMHO Wrecks have not been thought out properly and cannot have been play tested or a solution to this problem would have been released as part of their deployment in Revelations. It looks like to test Wreck, the devs/alpha testers gave themselves the skills, fitted Salvage mods and salvaged every wreck... if they tested this feature in its entirety at all. Of course THAT would work fine because the IDEAL is being tested... not the REALITY. Certainly No-one has considered the interim (REAL) period between deploying Wrecks and people having trained the skills to Salvage them (thus removing them from the deadspace/system and resolving the problem).

I am amazed that this didn't appear as an issue on SISI already, but Wrecks seem also to have exposed a flaw in the SISI method of testing deployments... Simply put - everyone who tests on SISI grabs the best rigs/mods for the job they want to test... so problems like tagging wrecks simply do not surface until deployed on TQ because players have salvaged a couple and seen it work okay or they have looted a few and left the area. Either way... the problem of tagging a wreck wouldn't surface.

That in itself suggests that the testing is largely being left to SISI players alone and that new content isn't being dev-tested in all possible permutations, including 'idiot-proofing', before SISI deployment. And THAT really isn't the way it should be.

I love new content. Revelations appears to be a real rocker... but as with most things Human there's been a daft oversight that kicks it right in the n*ts - again My Own Humble Opinion... but hell!

Okay RANT over... but I hope I've made a clear point. I hope Wrecks are not a symptom of new and uncharacteristic haste from CCP. And I hope someone goes back over what should have been done already and fixes some kind of tagging mechanism for what ought to have been a flawless knock-em-dead feature.

Noveron
Caldari
Aitnaru
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:20:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Ginger.
Personally I just like their being a huge battle and then you get a ton of wreckage left behind afterwards, if nothing else it looks alot more cool than cans :). I dont think it will be long before we see dedicated salvage crews skirting around. Also, people might have to hold the battlefield so they can send in their salvage teams?

Personally I love it, but then again I might be a little biased.


The idea is great, but dont be discouraged, just dont forget people like to complain about everything :)

hitech redneck
Digital Mind Crimes
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:23:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Oveur
We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.


I sure hope the change is withinh a day or 2 not months. Its too hard to tell what has been looted and or not. Also you can not change the names on them like you could the old cans. I was going to name them looted.

Kichae Chandramani
Quasar Consortium
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:26:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Sheha
Please tell me just how you are to identify WHICH wreck you've looted?


Apparently coming.

Quote:
I just did part one of an L3 mission and was surrounded by 20plus wrecks... so I start checking for loot. Grab the odd mod here and there and then ended up totally baffled as to which Wreck still had stuff in and which didn't. The ONLY solution to this is to shoot every wrecks while they're still right by your ship - otherwise you have no way of knowing which you have been to already.

Or you could bring along a dedicated salvager. I brought this up in another thread: A dedicated salvager would mean you don't have to worry about the wrecks at all. Work out a deal with someone, and let them worry about drops.

Quote:
What if some folks are happy just to loot the mods and take mission rewards and move on?

With a changing icon coming, this should be possible in the near future.

Quote:
Not everyone will want to use a Rig slot and/or a High Slot for Salvage equipment on their Uber-Fitted Mission Ships but even if they don't they will still be surrounded by 20-30 wrecks with no way of identifying which they've looted.

Hire/befriend a looter. Pay them for their services, or let them keep the salvage while they give you the loot.

Quote:
IMHO Wrecks have not been thought out properly and cannot have been play tested or a solution to this problem would have been released as part of their deployment in Revelations.

I'm of the opinion that people with this opinion haven't thought out their opinion. Wrecks aren't there to buff mission payouts, just as I've argued above they shouldn't nerf them. The easy and obvious solution is to hire a salvage team. That's what the wrecks are there for: To introduce salvage teams to the game.


Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:47:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur

- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)



Neutral

Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!




Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something... Sad

Kylania
Gallente
Phoenix Industries
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:49:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Amira Silvermist
Originally by: Anatolius
Originally by: Oveur

- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)



Neutral

Come on, I'll have Survey trained to V by then!




Yes, its not nice to kick people in the bean bag because they were willing to invest skill training time for salvaging. If the prerequisites would would at least give a bonus or something... Sad


Yup, only had 2 days left for Survey V, guess I'll switch to some other skills for now.

lpha centurion
Confrerie des ombres
Sylph Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:50:00 - [75]
 

Removing wrecks is not the solution.
I think that you should be able to see if there are mods or not in these wrecks.

For example, the wreck icon is yellow when there are items in it or it stays white when it is empty.

What do you think of this ?

Vaedon
Part-timers Association
Posted - 2006.11.29 20:59:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Hexman
How about looter drones?


Oh hell yes. Please please please.

And while you're at it, devise some salvager drones too.

Jim McGregor
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:00:00 - [77]
 


People in my npc corp are also asking why wrecks have more hp than the ships they came from.... its a good question. Very Happy

Arondos
Minmatar
Old Timers Guild
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:06:00 - [78]
 

Oh and can I please be able to attack wrecks with my drones? I'd like to be able to get the ones I have looted off my screen without having to waste ammo. If I can blwo them up with guns why can't my drones guns blow them up?

Forge Pricechecker
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:29:00 - [79]
 

With 1 high slot for a tractor beam, and 1 for salvage, I'm loving this new system.

A second account in an exeq with 2 tractors and 2 salvage mods wouldn't suck, but using 2 slots on your main mission running setup works pretty well.

Amira Silvermist
The Aegis Militia
Aegis Militia
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:37:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Jim McGregor

People in my npc corp are also asking why wrecks have more hp than the ships they came from.... its a good question. Very Happy


Thats an easy one:
How much effort is needed to break a car so its no longer functional and how much effort is needed to actually pulverise it. Razz

Ra Tzu
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:37:00 - [81]
 

I have a specific question related to how it currently works.

I keep hearing to 'just shoot the can..er wreck', because we can't drone it!

I tried to shoot wrecks with heavy missiles and it didn't do anything.

So if I'm a missile/drone missioner, am I SOL untill a better system is implemented?

(I do like the tag suggestion)

Peter McGregor
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:45:00 - [82]
 

Can someone please tell me if EVERY destroyed ship leaves a wreck?
If so, I don't like it. After all, the power plant of a ship must have some pretty potent stuff in it. Add all other factors like ammo and fuel onboard and you get a really big bang... Sometimes ships should simply get vaporised, no wreck, no lootcan, just some dust ;)

Argus Greymoore
Gallente
Something for Nothing
Posted - 2006.11.29 21:50:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Argus Greymoore on 29/11/2006 21:51:12
Originally by: FeralShadow
Edited by: FeralShadow on 29/11/2006 18:40:30
well here's a few easy ways to keep track of the wrecks that are yours:

(snip)

2. If doing #1 isn't possible, after popping a wreck, simply rename it. Then, after all rats are popped, you know which wrecks are yours by a simple refresh of the overview.

Wrecks can't be renamed at this time.

Originally by: Ra Tzu
I have a specific question related to how it currently works.

I keep hearing to 'just shoot the can..er wreck', because we can't drone it!I tried to shoot wrecks with heavy missiles and it didn't do anything.So if I'm a missile/drone missioner, am I SOL untill a better system is implemented?(I do like the tag suggestion)

I was destroying them left and right with my T1 blasters last night. Only took a couple of shots.

Lady Trade
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:06:00 - [84]
 

Could you please implement that the "can" window closes after you lootet from it? Would realy LOVE this!

d026
temp holding
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:10:00 - [85]
 

Quote:
Got a question about it though, will all the wrecks be assigned 'unlooted' before you have opened them, even if wreck contains no loot? Or will only wreck 'with' loot be assigned some color code, and empty wreck be left blank??lly nice.


i'd be interested in this aswell. I think the most simple solution would just be to dropp loot in cans as always not having anything to do with the wrecks. For me this whole salvaging crap is just a huge anoyance -.-

JazmanKills
New Eden Combats Industries and Advanturers.
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:12:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: JazmanKills on 29/11/2006 22:13:26
Originally by: Oveur
Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:

- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted)
- Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable)
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
- No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)




Great, freaking great. Most of us that were interested in Salvaging said, OK, that's the pre-reqs and went about training Survey 5. So the few days I've been training Survey, just for this skill are now out the freaking window. Thanks again guys.

And as we continue to pay to beta test your software...

Rolling Eyes

Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:17:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Oveur
We'll make it more visible if it has been looted but we're not removing the wrecks if it's been looted. We have some other improvements lined up for wrecks too.

Scrapheap Challenge™?

You've already added rigs, I mean.

Madcat Adams
Amarr
Romulan Technologies Limited
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:29:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Oveur
Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:

- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted)
- Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable)
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
- No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)




Sounds very good, what will the new skill requirements be? Will have Survey 5 by Tuesday, and if it's pointless, I'd rather just stop at 3 where I'm at now to focus on rig skills, then get back to finishing Medium energy 5. Shiny new turrets II's for a shiny new Harbinger. Wink

Sokudo
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:34:00 - [89]
 

Changing the skill requirements?

So the time I spent training Survey 5 on two characters is to be wasted? Could we have Survey have some benefit then for those of us who took the time to train up ahead of the release?

As for the rest and for the patch in general... great job guys (although any chance you can possibly patch pre-weekend since my cov-ops is kinda useless until I can get a recon launcher on it)?

Phoenix Lonestar
Clockwork Orange Ltd
Posted - 2006.11.29 22:41:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Phoenix Lonestar on 29/11/2006 22:43:44
Looter drones would be spectacular. But so would skill queuing... both will never happen.

I liked having cans drop if there was loot, and having the enemy ship just pop if there wasn't. Having useless space junk out there is pretty, but the funtionality is crap. Maybe find a way of a wreck showing up after something is destroyed if it is salvageable, a loot can if it's just loot, and nothing if there is nothing. Not the best idea, but it keeps most of us happy, me thinks.

As an alternative... maybe scrap salvaging until it gets thought all the way through. Wrecks take the place of loot cans for the time being. I know that would **** people off.. but not so many. And the skills would still come into play later.


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