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ProphetGuru
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:47:00 - [121]
 

attitude>sp

Those deluding themselves into believing BoB has no low sp char's are looking for yet another excuse for poor performance.


Lag Fest
Minmatar
Order of Anarchy
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:47:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: travelingsales
Edited by: travelingsales on 30/11/2006 14:28:07
Originally by: Lag Fest

I couldn't agree more with u, being member of BoB for more than a year i had the chance experience the bobs inner workings. And i really got to say that Band of Brothers isn't just some cool name or something it really means what it says, simply a Band of Brothers having fun playing EvE. There are no "me-ppl" in BoB, "me-ppl" very often leave by themselfs or are shown the door, everyone see themselfs as part of something bigger, kinda as a part of very well operational machine.

But regarding BoBs recruitment tactics. You mention that they only recruit the best, doesn't that make sence, you said yourself that the case in ASCN is that you guys recruit alot of new and unexperienced players, but bob doesn't have the need to recruit unexperienced ppl, they have room for the well experienced and "we" kind of ppl.



I can't actually speak for ASCN recruiting on the whole, and if you read my post again I did not mean to do so. I don't really know anything about the recruiting practices of ASCN to be honest.

My point was not specific to ASCN in any case. The majority of corps/alliances in the game MUST recruit less experienced players if they want to grow. There are only so many experienced players in the game at any given time, and of those, the ones you really want on your side don't change corps/alliances that often. So if you are trying to build a corp/alliance to take on BoB, you have a couple of choices:

1) Recruit nubs/medium skill players and hope they blossom with time, and further hope they stick with you once they've blossomed.

2) Compete with established alliances and freelance corps for experienced players looking for new corps. BoB being the big one of course, but others have their own draw too: MC, Est, Burn Eden, ASCN, -A-, all have a certain "brand" if you will that lets them attract a certain kind of player.

3) buy lots of high-sp alts on the auction forum.

My point was that BoB right now has a fairly self-selecting group of recruits and probably wins the competition in option #2 more than their share of the time, especially where PVP centered characters are concerned. (ASCN probably wins it for mining-centered players Razz) I think this is due to BoB having a good structure for PVP success, not to mention telling everyone about it all the time.

Thus, anyone who wants to fight BoB has to take their recruiting "wins" in option #2 when they can, and take their chances with option #1 the rest of the time. To tie this back in with the current conflict, I suspect the portion of characters in ASCN who "grew up" in their current ASCN corp is probably higher than the percentage of BoB players who "grew up" in BoB, although I have no actual numbers to back this up.

In the long term, the facts above lead to it being much harder to build an entity able to take on BoB than it is to simply give in and join BoB. You are pulling from a wider pool of players than your opponent, many of whom will not be up to the task, and if you falter at any point, some of the players you've been grooming become potential BoB recruits.

This is where the "BoB is Easy Mode" line of argument comes from, and I submit that anyone who is looking for the biggest challenge in Eve should fight against BoB rather than joining them. This is not to say that BoB never faces a challenge, or never fights at a disadvantage. But based on everything I know about the game, I can't get past the notion that in general players in BoB face fewer challenges and difficulties than players outside it.


that is true and agree with you on most things but there are far more challanges than being the best at PvP. Also Its quite a challange being the #1 as well. But i assume its up to everyone what and how they wanna play this game. 0.0 is rutheless and theres only room for dedicated groups.

Xianthar
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:49:00 - [123]
 

less talk more pew pew Very Happy

-xian

Dianabolic
Gallente
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.30 17:56:00 - [124]
 

Hellraiza join IRC please.

Crellion
Gallente
Parental Control
Merciless.
Posted - 2006.11.30 18:06:00 - [125]
 

I think BoB will remain dominant so log as they can convincingly claim they are the best.

See the problem with a succesful alliance is that some always see themselves (often rightly so) as the driving force behind the success with other people being the dead weight.

Now I am sure BoB also has more active and less active players, better and worse pvpers. People who pown and people who sometimes lose ships in an embarassing way.

Usually this makes those that see themselves as l33t to demand an increasing recognition. Eventually this leads to break ups inside the alliance / emopire whatever.

BoB however seem to have an increasing dynamic and they seem to be a lot less saturated than one would expect after so much success. The reasons?

IMO:
1) They strive for absolute excellence so that even their best can never feel embarassed about being identified as "a BoB".

2) They use as much as possible their economy of scale and politics of scale. Their leaders go for acheivements that would seem inconceivable without the full might of the BoB machine so the best of the less happy BoBits are painfully aware that despite being better than average, if they leave the fold they cant hope to reproduce success at that level.

3) They have a leadership that appears to be involved and active in a stable way over the years. LD couldnt take more than 1 1/2 years of -v- while all of BoBs leaders (not DICE oc) have been there eve since I have been playing the game.

4) They excel at a propaganda machine that enpowers numbers 1 and 2 above.

All BoB has is it's rep... take that away and it would be just another alliance rly Wink
Can somoene take that away though? While I dont care personally there are definately ways you could make them hurt a lot pshycologically (and that could well be enough to end the BoB domination).... However I d rather not list here because:
- I am just a n00b and dunno what I am talking about; or
- I dont think I should bring those ways out in the open nor do I have any reason to be "anti-BoB"... if anything I admire them a little Laughing

As for the ASCN war I think BoB (despite their success) are allready fed up with it and if the hobbits could think of a nice monumental moral victory they could offer BoB (dont ask me for the particulars... it just needs to invilve a lot of humility, a lot of moral servitude, economic offers and some good fights to top it off) the war would end tomorrow morning rly...

[man I must be rly bored... should probably look for a new job Shocked]


Evelyn Exe
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.11.30 18:07:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: ProphetGuru
attitude>sp

Those deluding themselves into believing BoB has no low sp char's are looking for yet another excuse for poor performance.


If you actually read my original post I said high SP characters that were experienced and dedicated players.

Take away the dedication and experience and high SP means nothing, I fully agree.

But an experienced and dedicated character with 25m+ SP is more use than the same person with less SP simply because they are less able to use T2 mods.

ProphetGuru
Gallente
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.30 18:20:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: ProphetGuru on 30/11/2006 18:21:00
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
But an experienced and dedicated character with 25m+ SP is more use than the same person with less SP simply because they are less able to use T2 mods.


This is where you fail.

Look, I certainly understand the logic of your argument, don't mis-interpet me. I just see it fundamentally different.

The point is, the mindset of applying usefullness to someone in your alliance based on anything other then the attitude and personality of said person is the difference between us and you. I place my isk on 1yr old BoB chars over a 3yr old xyz char, because they have killer instinct, and know that they already outclass xyz just by being BoB.

It's part of what makes us better then you.

It's a big part of the reason you are losing, and will continue to lose your space.


edit-format

DrDimeBar
Gallente
House of Negotiable Affection
Posted - 2006.11.30 18:47:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: DB Preacher
Edited by: DB Preacher on 29/11/2006 12:36:24

There are two main definitions of Phobos.

Primarily, from mythology, the following:

Quote:
Phobos is the personification of fear and horror in Greek mythology. He is the son of Ares and Aphrodite. He, his brother Deimos, and the goddess Enyo accompany Ares into battle, along with his father's attendants, Trembling, Panic and other abstractions.


After closing Paragon Soul down, BoB paused to breath for a week. We used our smaller ships and roaming gangs to cause phobos amongst the ASCN fleet.


sorry, I couldnt help but laugh at the opening statement :) do you realise that phobos was a person. this is like saying 'we used our smaller ships and roaming gangs to cause Gordon amongst the ASCN fleet' :)

DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:04:00 - [129]
 

Sir,

If you don't know what phobos is in relation to mythology, armies, astronomy and the greek language in general then please do not come on here and mock my post.

Because you are, quite simply, mistaken.

Thanks,
dbp

Asariasha
Caldari
DEFCON.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:50:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Asariasha on 30/11/2006 19:50:46
Hmm Phobos is a new type of chips...some kind of modified Nachos ? ^^


Stamm
Amarr
RHC
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.30 19:54:00 - [131]
 

Never been much of a fan of BoBs chestbeating and propaganda, but this thread, and certainly the original post have been very interesting. There's two sides to it though, and I don't believe ASCN are anywhere near as inept as DB Preacher is proclaiming them to be... but we'll see what happens in the south over time. I just hope this is the start of more informative, interesting and less pointless smack threads on the Bobbit/Hobbit war.

Shinjuro
Caldari
UA Industry
Red Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.30 20:03:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Dianabolic
Hellraiza join IRC please.


Comon invite me to IRC.. I don't wanna be excluded from this cyber..

Dr Einkeisel
Amarr
Red Eye .Inc.
Rare Faction
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:32:00 - [133]
 

Just like to add, I have 11million SP Very Happy

Would also like to add, I fly a intercepter still because my current skill set allows me to fly that like any 30million SP char could. Hint hint....

Muffin Menace
Amarr
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.30 22:39:00 - [134]
 

I joined BoB with 2.3mil sp so nerrrrrrrr Razz

Thou DPB moulded me into a lean mean fraggin machine, I still mine like a mofo thou Embarassed

Scarcus
Caldari
Stain of Mind
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:13:00 - [135]
 

hehe. Yeah, must have been your "attitude" that got you in. Right. :)

A 1-1 with HellRaiz666...lucky you. He always had 2 other dudes with him during my encounters. Got ganked like a fool but learn I did.

Very Happy


Nukeitall
Gallente
Convergent
Firmus Ixion
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:38:00 - [136]
 

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

LinBadar
Minmatar
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.30 23:57:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: ProphetGuru
attitude>sp

Those deluding themselves into believing BoB has no low sp char's are looking for yet another excuse for poor performance.




qft

I can think of atleast 5 mains in evol alone, off the top of my head, (which is saying something as i don't go around asking every bob member how many SP they have) with under 10mil sp....lowest being around 5mil.

yet as also mentioned above i trust these people and their "usefulness" much more than i would some lazy 25mil+ char who is only concerned about their own interests.

to be useful - quite independent of SP.


laotse
Gallente
shangdi
Posted - 2006.12.01 01:39:00 - [138]
 

not posting of the dead,s of all your slave corp,s is a shame and there is a post here already making slave,s is bad imo

hezie99
Caldari
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2006.12.01 01:42:00 - [139]
 

i have great repsect for what bob achieve in this game having tried to join twice (im a corp hopper so nope) but why the constant forum posts let us know when the wars over thanxs bye

Keldon Pax
Minmatar
Honour Bound
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:07:00 - [140]
 

In the centre [of the Shield of Herakles] was Phobos<fear> worked in adamant, unspeakable, staring backwards with eyes that glowed with fire. His mouth was full of teeth in a white row, fearful and daunting, and upon his grim brow hovered frightful Eris (Strife) who arrays the throng of men ...
Upon the shield Proioxis (Pursuit) and Palioxis (Flight) were wrought, and Homados (Tumult), and Phobos (Panic), and Androktasie (Slaughter). Eris (Strife) also, and Kydoimos (Uproar) were hurrying about, and deadly Ker (Fate).
–Shield of Heracles 139f

Yes Phobos, I think the Romans called him <timor>
And thank the gods for Wikipediaugh

Liu Kaskakka
Caldari
PAK
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:13:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Dianabolic
Hellraiza join IRC please.


Damnit, stop censoring your members!! I forgot what he posted!! >_<

Omeega
Amarr
Ab Origines
White Noise.
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:36:00 - [142]
 

i have 1.4mil SP.

fo' shizzle.

Seleene
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:38:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Seleene on 01/12/2006 06:38:20
Originally by: Omeega
i have 1.4mil SP.

fo' shizzle.



All in Trade and Industry, right? I knew you were an alt. Razz

Milena Rage
Caldari
The Aftermath
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:44:00 - [144]
 

I like to pretend i'm in BoB fighting off the menacing ASCN.

who else is with me?

Evelyn Exe
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:57:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: ProphetGuru
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 30/11/2006 18:21:00
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
But an experienced and dedicated character with 25m+ SP is more use than the same person with less SP simply because they are less able to use T2 mods.


This is where you fail.

Look, I certainly understand the logic of your argument, don't mis-interpet me. I just see it fundamentally different.

The point is, the mindset of applying usefullness to someone in your alliance based on anything other then the attitude and personality of said person is the difference between us and you. I place my isk on 1yr old BoB chars over a 3yr old xyz char, because they have killer instinct, and know that they already outclass xyz just by being BoB.

It's part of what makes us better then you.

It's a big part of the reason you are losing, and will continue to lose your space.

edit-format


So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP? You would take the latter because they are more flexible and because the greater number of SP wuold tend to suggest that they would haev more experience of the game and be moer self reliant in terms of isk and isk generating ability.

That is pretty much what I said, it is you trying to mis-interpret me by trying to make this into an argument about attitude and SP.

As for the "better" bit, well OK, I admit that you are better at playing this specific video game than the average person. Neutral

Seleene
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:18:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Evelyn Exe
So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?


Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has? Smile

Weebear
Minmatar
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:21:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?


Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has? Smile




800K Wink

Leno
Caldari
Turbulent
Anarchy Empire
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:37:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Weebear
Originally by: Seleene
Originally by: Evelyn Exe
So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP?


Since you seem so hung up on this issue, how many skill points do you think Farjung, formerly MC and now in BoB, has? Smile




800K Wink


nah he isnt one of those new characters that get to start with loads more sp!

DB Preacher
Minmatar
Reikoku
KenZoku
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:46:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: DB Preacher on 01/12/2006 10:47:42
Originally by: Evelyn Exe

So which would you take, a "BoB" person with 5m SP or a "BoB" person with 30m SP? You would take the latter because they are more flexible and because the greater number of SP wuold tend to suggest that they would haev more experience of the game and be moer self reliant in terms of isk and isk generating ability.



No.

We would take the guy who fits in best with our ethos.

If we were only based on sp or looked to get the best sp players then we would miss out on some of the best players in the game.

I'm sorry but you are wrong, RKK have never based recruitment on how many sp a player has got.

If that were the case then we wouldn't have laughed off some of the peeps asking to join us just because they had 30m+ sp.

SP can be trained in this game over time but there as some human skills that are simply unique.

I don't know why you are arguing this point, perhaps you are looking for more excuses for you alliances failings.

You obviously have no clue about how we hire or how we play together as an alliance and are just saying stuff randomly based on your baised opinion of our alliance.

Either way, on this point, you are completely and utterly incorrect.

dbp

Shin Ra
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.12.01 11:16:00 - [150]
 

Just to reinforce this point.

I joined BE with 800k skillpoints, currently have 26 mil and still pwn Dr Caymus any day of the week.


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