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Jurushy
SteelVipers
YouWhat
Posted - 2006.11.25 12:31:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jurushy on 25/11/2006 12:32:32
well patchnots are out and the only thing that is change for the minmatar capships is *Hel's volume has been increased to 51,000,000m3*

TUX this suck!

over 8 Month u promise to take a look at this matter but nothing happen


now in 3 day´s Revelation hit TQ and ally carrier will become fleetships (for fights) becouse of the nice HP change
now we have
amarr and caldary which are the best tanks
gallente which deal whit the most damage
and minmatar which can boost in 3,75 secound another ship (after locking it 12 secound the cap of this ship will be killed fast enought that it can be easy killed by enemys. becouse it hase the worse cap of all carrier and one remote modul is able to kill the cap that could run a dual caprep tank forever)


Tuxford i know that you have many things todo but we wait for a long time and you show us that you are able to boost/nerfe ships during a few days (drake, abaddon, myrmidon, herrican)
and on the otherhand u have also enought time to boost rar/unique ships like silver astate?
ships that are only used by a cople of players?
that will be not used in fights


i slowly get the opinion that you dont want to make the minmatar carrier usefull
or you have no idee how to do that

if you have no idee why you dont ask the minmatar carrier pilots?
they have dozents of idee´s how to improfe it to bring it in line whit the other


we wait long and we were really pationt in this matter

Sioluk
Minmatar
Oser's Shipping and Manufacturing Inc.
DEFI4NT
Posted - 2006.11.25 12:45:00 - [2]
 

try not to feel too bad mate, it seems to me alot of the changes push minmatar further and further to the backburner in my eyes. tempted to auction off one of my characters because of many changes in kali makes it useless for me to own 3 accounts.

caldari and gallente will rule the universe.

Jurushy
SteelVipers
YouWhat
Posted - 2006.11.25 12:52:00 - [3]
 

If the only way to force TUX to do somethin is to whine at this ****ing forum i will do it Exclamation

We all was really patient over the last 8 months after TUX PROMISED TO TAKE A LOOCK AT THE CARRIER

but he don NOTHING!

yes i am angry

Vader Crane
Minmatar
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.25 13:05:00 - [4]
 

cmon tuxford you have to man

TheFirstInquisitor
Posted - 2006.11.25 14:05:00 - [5]
 

Note for all, criticising devs in anyway means that the chances of anything happening are even worse than they were before. I remember seing Tux loose it and start leaving "****" as when it was suggested that perhaps the drake wasnt much better than the ferox for missiles.
Hey, i want the Minmatar boosted aswell, hell, the Caldari and the Gallenete seem to be getting most of the action whilst minmatar and Ammarr shake their heads from the sidelines...

Jurushy
SteelVipers
YouWhat
Posted - 2006.11.25 14:17:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Jurushy on 25/11/2006 14:19:32


Originally by: TheFirstInquisitor
Note for all, criticising devs in anyway means that the chances of anything happening are even worse than they were before. I remember seing Tux loose it and start leaving "****" as when it was suggested that perhaps the drake wasnt much better than the ferox for missiles.
Hey, i want the Minmatar boosted aswell, hell, the Caldari and the Gallenete seem to be getting most of the action whilst minmatar and Ammarr shake their heads from the sidelines...


i am not criticising TUX
he is doing a great work and i know that he has a load of work
but this isue is not acquainted since yesterday
we wait 8 month and was allways polite and patient and belive that TUX will do this well

but now i am frustrated Sad

Breed Love
DOUBLE IDENTITY
Posted - 2006.11.25 14:46:00 - [7]
 

/signed, minnie carrier and motherfu... er..ship need to be looked at.

Vader Crane
Minmatar
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.25 15:57:00 - [8]
 

pageing tuxford Cool

CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2006.11.25 16:10:00 - [9]
 

Yes we did want to do a whole overhaul on the carriers as a class. In fact we wanted to review the whole capital ship line. Sadly there was just too much work and this was one of the things that were pushed back. To be honest these ships in whole need something more to get them in the front lines.

Oveur mentioned this a bit in his speach at the fanfest, but the focus, for us nerfbat brothers at least, after revelations is going to be warfare. That means larger scale combat, you know capital ships, starbases, big badaboom and stuff. We have a plan now, its beutiful and its premature to talk about it.

With the increased hitpoints, and the boost to capital ship logistic modules its a bit more incentive to take it into the combat. Is it enough? I don't think it is, and like I said they need something more, and we weren't going to spend too much time on something that wouldn't really fix the issue anyway.

I understand you are frustrated but I ask you yet again to show a bit more patience.

Sivona
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.11.25 16:55:00 - [10]
 

The time is cut in half as is the rep ammount so the net effect is the same but it stops a ship being alpha striked out in the 10 seconds between repping.

The effect of the bonus is still the same for the minmatar carrier, you will still (at level 5) get 25% more repped.

So that effect has changed, however these changes act as a huge bonus for the minmatar carrier, previously they did an excellent remote rep job but they did not have the cap to maintain it. Now with these changes, and the inclusion of rigs, they are far far more sustainable allowing the minmatar carrier to actually utilize its bonus fully.
I cannot understand why you are complaining about these changes.

St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:07:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we did want to do a whole overhaul on the carriers as a class. In fact we wanted to review the whole capital ship line. Sadly there was just too much work and this was one of the things that were pushed back. To be honest these ships in whole need something more to get them in the front lines.

Oveur mentioned this a bit in his speach at the fanfest, but the focus, for us nerfbat brothers at least, after revelations is going to be warfare. That means larger scale combat, you know capital ships, starbases, big badaboom and stuff. We have a plan now, its beutiful and its premature to talk about it.

With the increased hitpoints, and the boost to capital ship logistic modules its a bit more incentive to take it into the combat. Is it enough? I don't think it is, and like I said they need something more, and we weren't going to spend too much time on something that wouldn't really fix the issue anyway.

I understand you are frustrated but I ask you yet again to show a bit more patience.


I bet it has something to do with HEAT and SUBSYSTEMS.

Jurushy
SteelVipers
YouWhat
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sivona
The time is cut in half as is the rep ammount so the net effect is the same but it stops a ship being alpha striked out in the 10 seconds between repping.

The effect of the bonus is still the same for the minmatar carrier, you will still (at level 5) get 25% more repped.

So that effect has changed, however these changes act as a huge bonus for the minmatar carrier, previously they did an excellent remote rep job but they did not have the cap to maintain it. Now with these changes, and the inclusion of rigs, they are far far more sustainable allowing the minmatar carrier to actually utilize its bonus fully.
I cannot understand why you are complaining about these changes.


becouse till u lock the boosted ship it will be killed
and if you have enought time to lock it so the 1 (1,25) secound more of other carrier booste will no more effect this bonus

that why it is useless

the other point is you cannot use more then 2 of such modules and only if u dont tank your own ship

point 3 ofcoure this modules are boostet a bit but the capuse also increased
so pre Revelation the carrier has problems whit that and post revelation this problems are a little increase

i do a lot of testing whit this
during a fleet (stresstest on SiSi) i try to save some of the enemy shiips
most of them i was not able to lock and the one which i could lock blow up till the moduls start (i have fittet cap schild and armor rep) becouse of modullag
the other point of this if i manage to boost someone this moduls drain my cap in a minute (i fit all meds whit caprecharger 2 and i ca run the dual armor tank forever)

i like the rolle of a suport ship but atm the system does not allow this and the bonus of the minmatar carrier also dont support this rolle it only kill the cap

@Tuxford
thx for your anwer we try to be patient but ples dont let us wait another 8 month
my minmatar carrier level 5 skill is finished in 26 days

VortiK
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:25:00 - [13]
 

Would be nice if carriers/motherships could lock more targets than a Battleship. They fill the role of fleet support like Logistics ships which make use of the multitasking skill. Crying or Very sad


CCP Tuxford

Posted - 2006.11.25 17:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: VortiK
Would be nice if carriers/motherships could lock more targets than a Battleship. They fill the role of fleet support like Logistics ships which make use of the multitasking skill. Crying or Very sad



We've been wanting to make it so you don't need a target lock to remote rep your team mates. With the spiffy new gang system it should be more intuitive to design.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:40:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: VortiK
Would be nice if carriers/motherships could lock more targets than a Battleship. They fill the role of fleet support like Logistics ships which make use of the multitasking skill. Crying or Very sad



We've been wanting to make it so you don't need a target lock to remote rep your team mates. With the spiffy new gang system it should be more intuitive to design.


I'd sooooooooo love that. Not neccessarily for carriers, but for Logistics cruisers Razz

Sivona
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:44:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Jurushy
Originally by: Sivona
The time is cut in half as is the rep ammount so the net effect is the same but it stops a ship being alpha striked out in the 10 seconds between repping.

The effect of the bonus is still the same for the minmatar carrier, you will still (at level 5) get 25% more repped.

So that effect has changed, however these changes act as a huge bonus for the minmatar carrier, previously they did an excellent remote rep job but they did not have the cap to maintain it. Now with these changes, and the inclusion of rigs, they are far far more sustainable allowing the minmatar carrier to actually utilize its bonus fully.
I cannot understand why you are complaining about these changes.


becouse till u lock the boosted ship it will be killed
and if you have enought time to lock it so the 1 (1,25) secound more of other carrier booste will no more effect this bonus

that why it is useless

the other point is you cannot use more then 2 of such modules and only if u dont tank your own ship

point 3 ofcoure this modules are boostet a bit but the capuse also increased
so pre Revelation the carrier has problems whit that and post revelation this problems are a little increase

i do a lot of testing whit this
during a fleet (stresstest on SiSi) i try to save some of the enemy shiips
most of them i was not able to lock and the one which i could lock blow up till the moduls start (i have fittet cap schild and armor rep) becouse of modullag
the other point of this if i manage to boost someone this moduls drain my cap in a minute (i fit all meds whit caprecharger 2 and i ca run the dual armor tank forever)

i like the rolle of a suport ship but atm the system does not allow this and the bonus of the minmatar carrier also dont support this rolle it only kill the cap

@Tuxford
thx for your anwer we try to be patient but ples dont let us wait another 8 month
my minmatar carrier level 5 skill is finished in 26 days


Fit sensor boosters, its what we do.

Cap use should have decreased by about 40-60% depedning on exactly what changes went through

Vantick Iscod
Norton AntiBot
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:51:00 - [17]
 

If you fit sensor boosters the remote reps demolish your cap.

I haven't done the math on the new one, but I've heard they actually eat up MORE cap/sec...

Theres just no way a logistics bonus comes anywhere close to a damage or a tank bonus. The kick in the pants comes with the description For the Niddy/Hel. If they changed the description I'd just accept that we were designed to suck, otherwise a logistics bonus will never be a plus for us.

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.25 17:57:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Vantick Iscod
If you fit sensor boosters the remote reps demolish your cap.

I haven't done the math on the new one, but I've heard they actually eat up MORE cap/sec...

Theres just no way a logistics bonus comes anywhere close to a damage or a tank bonus. The kick in the pants comes with the description For the Niddy/Hel. If they changed the description I'd just accept that we were designed to suck, otherwise a logistics bonus will never be a plus for us.


Thats actually not true. The amount of Cap burned per HP repaired has been decreased, so its a buff. So has the amount of HP repaired over time. The only change is that the cycle is alot shorter, so the whole process is quicker- meaning Cap per second has gone up.

But seeing as Cap used per HP has gotten better, its an overall buff.

ragewind
Caldari
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
Posted - 2006.11.25 18:00:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
after revelations is going to be warfare. That means larger scale combat, you know capital ships, starbases, big badaboom and stuff. We have a plan now, its beutiful and its premature to talk about it.

With the increased hitpoints, and the boost to capital ship logistic modules its a bit more incentive to take it into the combat. Is it enough? I don't think it is


try watching stargate/stargate atlantus take a look at there capital space battels you know those flashy big badaboom things you see going between each capital ship they is weapons, big ones that dont bother with the fighters that there capitals (read this as cariers) launche.

just so that clear give them a form of weapon system that will work cap v cap and have some ability cap v battle ship.

Vantick Iscod
Norton AntiBot
Posted - 2006.11.25 19:22:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Patch86
Thats actually not true. The amount of Cap burned per HP repaired has been decreased, so its a buff. So has the amount of HP repaired over time. The only change is that the cycle is alot shorter, so the whole process is quicker- meaning Cap per second has gone up.

But seeing as Cap used per HP has gotten better, its an overall buff.


200 hp/s for 240 cap/s now.
300 hp/s for 300 cap/s in Rev I. (The Extra cap/s is 25% more, which is also inline with the Cap increase, so it equals out the length of time it can be run.)

Its a buff to remote repping, the Minny Carrier is still screwed though as even running only 2 remote reppers, it runs out of cap in under 90 seconds (Less then 30 reps combined) , even with a full rack of Cap Recharger 2's. If you start fitting Sensor Boosters to actually lock stuff, that number scales down RAPIDLY.

Drutort
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.25 21:55:00 - [21]
 

there really should have been modules that fit in mid/low slot one of them that boosted your remote rep ability a lot and made it more efficient at the cost of a slot... that is what it should really have been done... and if it was a mid slot then the minmatar carrier would have an adv over others, and the bonus might be worth something... they really need to give logistics some loving in general... remote armor/shield boosting modules, to increase efficiency or maybe hp boost and or increase optimal range and so on... each module should give you a primary of those 3 options... while having small % boost to other areas so you can mix and match

and no rigs are not the answer here, the fact that the carrier bonuses are imbalanced right now still stands and it’s a shame it could not have been tweaked and more thought put into rev 1 release.

Malthros Zenobia
Posted - 2006.11.25 22:00:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
Originally by: VortiK
Would be nice if carriers/motherships could lock more targets than a Battleship. They fill the role of fleet support like Logistics ships which make use of the multitasking skill. Crying or Very sad



We've been wanting to make it so you don't need a target lock to remote rep your team mates. With the spiffy new gang system it should be more intuitive to design.


Such a thing would make logstics ships kill SO MUCH ASS.Very Happy

G Dabak
Magellanic Itg
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.11.25 23:30:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Tuxford
Yes we did want to do a whole overhaul on the carriers as a class. In fact we wanted to review the whole capital ship line. Sadly there was just too much work and this was one of the things that were pushed back. To be honest these ships in whole need something more to get them in the front lines.


It sounds like there will be a lot of ship stuff being looked at after Rev I is stable. I hope some of it comes in a smaller patch and we don't have to wait for Rev II or III for everything.

Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2006.11.26 01:06:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Sivona
Originally by: Jurushy
Originally by: Sivona
The time is cut in half as is the rep ammount so the net effect is the same but it stops a ship being alpha striked out in the 10 seconds between repping.

The effect of the bonus is still the same for the minmatar carrier, you will still (at level 5) get 25% more repped.

So that effect has changed, however these changes act as a huge bonus for the minmatar carrier, previously they did an excellent remote rep job but they did not have the cap to maintain it. Now with these changes, and the inclusion of rigs, they are far far more sustainable allowing the minmatar carrier to actually utilize its bonus fully.
I cannot understand why you are complaining about these changes.


becouse till u lock the boosted ship it will be killed
and if you have enought time to lock it so the 1 (1,25) secound more of other carrier booste will no more effect this bonus

that why it is useless

the other point is you cannot use more then 2 of such modules and only if u dont tank your own ship

point 3 ofcoure this modules are boostet a bit but the capuse also increased
so pre Revelation the carrier has problems whit that and post revelation this problems are a little increase

i do a lot of testing whit this
during a fleet (stresstest on SiSi) i try to save some of the enemy shiips
most of them i was not able to lock and the one which i could lock blow up till the moduls start (i have fittet cap schild and armor rep) becouse of modullag
the other point of this if i manage to boost someone this moduls drain my cap in a minute (i fit all meds whit caprecharger 2 and i ca run the dual armor tank forever)

i like the rolle of a suport ship but atm the system does not allow this and the bonus of the minmatar carrier also dont support this rolle it only kill the cap

@Tuxford
thx for your anwer we try to be patient but ples dont let us wait another 8 month
my minmatar carrier level 5 skill is finished in 26 days


Fit sensor boosters, its what we do.

Cap use should have decreased by about 40-60% depedning on exactly what changes went through


You do realized that even with the 2 sensor boosters I have, that my lock time and lock range in combat still sucks when somone is using a remote sensor dampner? I'd like my 2nd bonus to not weigh in balance on the enemy NOT fielding one of the most common items in PVP.

Rolling Eyes


 

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