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blankseplocked WCS - please reconsider
 
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Kai Jyokoroi
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:20:00 - [181]
 

Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Timmy Bettenson
its a great thing, stops combat ships using them


No, it dosn't.

It stops a lot of players from going into combat. There is a huge difference, and one which will dramatically slash the amount of PvP in the game.


To be honest, if the only people that are going to stop pvping or ever coming into lowsec are the people who always used to fit two stabs, good riddance to 'em.

I'm no pirate -I like to fight people who like to fight back, but even so, I think if this change means we never see people like the OP in low-sec again, that's fine with me. Cancel your subscription. If you've got a ~50 mil SP character and you're STILL not willing to do what this game was actually designed for, and just want to accrue vast amounts of stuff and be lovey-dovey to everyone, Final Fantasy XI is ----> way.

If you've got half a brain you can make billions of isk with a t2-fitted (no faction gear, or stabs) BS and some clever choke-point running (t2 fast hauler with OMG STABS) in 0.0. I certainly do. I also have an empire mission runner alt with political and military connections training to 5 atm, and that makes silly amounts of LP per mission. If all you want is to do that, high-sec is enough for you. You can make enough isk per week to pay the outrageously inflated prices for Core-X loot that real players are happy to spend 1 hour getting and shifting to idiots like Grey. I LOVE selling officer loot to carebears, so please, stay in Empire.

People who are never ever willing to risk anything should seriously just stay in high-sec where you can happily carebear away out of sight and away from our server nodes, or just quit the game. Simple as that. Rolling Eyes

Greenbolt
Minmatar
The Suicide Kings
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:24:00 - [182]
 


But my major point for posting..Most people say if you want a PVE only game..quit playing eve...I ask you this.

Eve mail me the name of a MMO that has a great corp alliance system uses space combat as a theme and has several thousand people to interact with on a constant basis.

Ive looked. Eve is not only the best MMO to date ive found ..its also the only Space based MMO that I can find presently running.

Maybe when Pirates of the burning sea comes out (which will be ship based pve/pvp but based on forum posting PVP is easily avoided wile experiencing the full pve/crafting side of thigns...) people will have an alternative.

But right now they dont. so blow it out your ear and live with the fact that people who dont like PVP at all play eve because there isnt much choice for the Scifi Spaceship type fan.


and related :
Ive never used stabs on non travel ships (Yeah I stab/nano my supply ships up. wish I could fly T2 industrials). I live in low sec and run L4s plus some pvp. While missioning I have yet to be attacked. The only risk is running the pipes in and out of mission zones - which travel wcs setups are for.

This could change in Kali depending on how easy it is to scan Mission runners..

and im on more kill mails than death mails at present...so im a carebear with teeth.

Majutsu
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:25:00 - [183]
 

What about running the missions themselves?

My only signifcant ship loss in my 10 or 12 weeks so far in Eve was my Brutix that got scrammed on an L3. Ouch. Since then when I do mission I fly with a WCS.

I'm all for encouraging more PvP, I try and do a little everything, I rat, I mine, I run missions, I try and PvP (note try Laughing) but this certainly will have an impact on even those mission runners who never leave high sec, there are certainly L3 and L4 missions with scramming NPC's.





Kai Jyokoroi
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2006.11.20 18:27:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Unfortunately, CCP seem to agree. I wonder if they've counted the number of mission runners in high sec lately, and then multiplied it by $9.95?


Aside from me flaming you in the last post (I get that way when talking about carebears, sorry YARRRR!!) I think you've nailed it on the head there. They obviously have, and they obviously know that after 6 months in Empire most people are godawful sick of it, and then start pirating or join a 0.0 corp. I'd guess around 80% of people do that.

They WANT more pvp. They WANT less people in Empire. They WANT pve in Empire to be much less worthwhile than in <0.4. They WANT to force people like you to take risks. All you have to do to confirm this is read the devblogs, and look at the way the game has developed.

It is only going to get worse for you. Now, sell your character to me for isks Laughing

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:36:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 20/11/2006 19:57:47
Originally by: Grey Area
At least make the penalty only apply to modules AFTER the first. the current penalty makes it simply impossible to fit any sort of WCS to anything other than a hauler...in fact, if you're going to do this, why not just make the modules hauler-only?

Pirates are going to have a field day...I think you've over-reacted to their whining AGAIN...I accept they were being abused...but a penalty for more than one would address that just as well - I'd even be happy with a 75% penalty for each module AFTER the first. At least give the victims SOME chance to get away...

This nerf makes the WCS almost redundant, and by the same reasoning, the two point warp scrambler pretty much redundant. Please reconsider.




WCS were only ever intended to be used for TRAVEL not combat
If you want to fight then fit to fight. If you want to travel relatively safely then fit to travel.

I swear people... grow a pair.

1) Watch local: It'll now show standings. Just make sure you have any known pirates set to - standings. If you see a - show up in local then be prepared to bail on a moment's notice.

2) Fight ALIGNED in lowsec... this is NOT a tough concept.

3) Fight AWAY from the warp-in point. Don't sit right on top of it. Duh... even if they warp in you will still have time to warp away before they can scramble you. And as a bonus you have warp to 0 now. So be aligned to a jump gate or station or safe spot or even an asteroid belt.

There is no need for stabs in a mission in lowsec. The only time I fit stabs on a ship is when I'm moving a new ship out to 0.0 (or back from there) or carrying valuable cargo. That's the ONLY time you NEED a stab. Especially now.

Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2006.11.20 19:40:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 20/11/2006 19:54:01
Originally by: Angus McLean
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 15/11/2006 19:31:06
You'll certainly see a LOT less mission runners in low sec. I thought CCP wanted exactly the opposite? In fact, it's going to worsen the lag problem in Empire...people will move away from agents who even MIGHT send them below 0.5...bye bye Vuorassi...hello Motsu.


Exactly. Pirates whined and wanted WCS's removed so they could pirate easier. Now they just wont see anything in 0.0 and whine again. Thus bring us back to the WCS idea.

My idea?

Take all of Empire out of the game except say 30 systems that everyone starts in. AKA to have a fun game that way, expand.

The Repricussions?

Some alliance takes over all the 0.0 surrounding empire thus blocking nubs in.


No, the reprecussion would be 75% of the player base quitting.

don't believe me? Take a look at the population of empire vs. the population of lowsec and 0.0 COMBINED sometime....

I'm all for the WCS nerf but you folk who insist on begging CCP to remove Level 3's and 4's from highsec are crazy. Put the 5's in lowsec/0.0 and have done with it and quit trying to get empire space nerfed. It serves a valuable purpose both for carebears AND for PVP players. So hush already.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:48:00 - [187]
 

Originally by: Taram Caldar
3) Fight AWAY from the warp-in point. Don't sit right on top of it. Duh... even if they warp in you will still have time to warp away before they can scramble you.
Well I'll just "Duh" right back at you...go fly a mission called "Enemies Abound part 1 of 5"...let me know how far you get from the warp in point in say...10 minutes (which by all accounts is how long it will take a pirate to find you under the new scanning rules)

Since I know you won't bother...five support frigates immediately target you and web you down to about 0.1 m/s. Until you have killed them (which takes a while due to combination of low sig radius and high resists) you'll be lucky to move more than 1km from the warp in point.

And to those saying EVE may not be the game for me. I can't argue that if we are talking about the EVE of the future - but the EVE of the past has made plenty of allowances for "carebear content"...I mean, what's the point of writing all those missions if they don't want anyone to fly them?

I doubt I'll quit...I'll adapt. I'll stay out of low sec space, and, if they remove level 4 missions to low sec space only, I probably WILL drop down a ship class and do level 3's. but either way, there's nothing CCP have done that will tempt me out into 0.0 space. Since that is their avowed intent, and looking at this thread I am not ENTIRELY alone...I'm just suggesting they rethink is all.

Taking stabs away makes carebears feel less safe. If they feel less safe, they are less likely to travel. Everyone has said that a single warp stab won't really make any difference...but it makes us FEEL safer. More of us will risk teh trip to 0.0, which means more of us for the pirates to shoot at.

I guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

LUKEC
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:55:00 - [188]
 

This whining thread still going?

WCS needed nerf badly and I'm certain 99% people who live in something else than hi-sec actually love this change.

Grey Area KALdarI is coming for you... we are ready. Are you?

Inowen
Posted - 2006.11.22 21:43:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
No, I'd disagree. A pirate who fits one warp scrambler should have the upper hand against a victim who decides to fitt all cargo expanders, or all damage mods, thus ignoring all "safety" options. BUT, said safety options SHOULD remain viable, and yes, EVEN FOR A SHIP THAT HAS SOME INTENTION TO FIGHT. What should be RIGHTLY nerfed is intending to fight with 4 or 5 (or even 8, on some BS's) warp core stabs fitted without much penalty to effectiveness.

But to nerf even ONE so harshly, is too much.


In all your ramblings you have obviously failed to even approach the point. It does NOT matter what you are doing in low sec space, you are at some point going to die. No one is 100% safe in this game ever, anywhere. But by choosing to go into low sec you choose to have your ship attacked and destroyed at some point. You should not be able to make yourself virtually immune to any and all attacks in low sec space by fitting stabs. Stay out of low sec, run missions in .5 and above and never worry about mission runner ganks, or go into low sec and risk being destroyed.

Keep your WCS I used to be a mission runner/miner and I think this WCS nerf is the best thing ever. Try to see the point that when you enter .4 and below you are subject to pvp no matter how much you want the iskies and to be safe in low sec.


Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.22 22:31:00 - [190]
 

A lot of people here tell me that one WCS does not make you safe. Then they tell me that they reject my request because I shouldn't be safe. I wish you'd all make up your minds.

Earthan
Gallente
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2006.11.22 22:35:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
At least make the penalty only apply to modules AFTER the first. the current penalty makes it simply impossible to fit any sort of WCS to anything other than a hauler...in fact, if you're going to do this, why not just make the modules hauler-only?

Pirates are going to have a field day...I think you've over-reacted to their whining AGAIN...I accept they were being abused...but a penalty for more than one would address that just as well - I'd even be happy with a 75% penalty for each module AFTER the first. At least give the victims SOME chance to get away...

This nerf makes the WCS almost redundant, and by the same reasoning, the two point warp scrambler pretty much redundant. Please reconsider.




Well from wha ti have heard its 50 % penalty to targetting speed and range.I guess you can also kill npc with such a penalty , just a bit slower or fit sensor booster?

Colonel Drego
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.22 22:41:00 - [192]
 

Having a single WCS on my ship has saved my ass many times DURING MISSIONS from MISSION NPCs. Yes, they do scramble and no, you cannot tell which is doing it. Currently I am trying to aquire a jump clone in empire, so I have to do these missions. This little nugget of info has been mentioned time and time again in this topic, but has been glossed over every single time. Sometimes, whne no one is around to help you, you just plain have to warp out. Now, you won't be able to if the support frigate swarm found in most higher level missions gets anywhere near you.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.22 22:41:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: Earthan
Well from wha ti have heard its 50 % penalty to targetting speed and range.I guess you can also kill npc with such a penalty , just a bit slower or fit sensor booster?
On some missions yes...but in Kali being "a bit slower" will lead to more pirates finding you, due to new scanning methods...

Also, certain missions will simply be IMPOSSIBLE with a 50% increased lock time and reduced range.

Mephistos
Viper-Squad
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2006.11.23 01:02:00 - [194]
 

First off to Drego, turn your effects on, and look for the one with the little blue things coming out of it, that's the one that's scrambling you.

WCS NEEDED to be nerfed. With 2 of them on a combat ship and some semi intelligent piloting I can be nearly invincible, and that's not even mentioning the things like stabbed up vagabonds that have enough dps to kill a couple enemies, mwd out of some range and still warp with a few points on them.

For the people that want to fly in low sec running missions with 1 stab, just throw a sensor booster in the mid, it might hurt your tank a little bit, but it will counter act the penalties for the most part, and the missions are easy enough as is, that one missing mid isn't going to gimp you too much.

This nerf is NOT for the low sec mission runners, it's for all the people that have to deal with stabbed up combat ships constantly fleeing us, or the NPC'ers in their ravens with 3+ stabs that just wander around with impunity not having to risk anything to be out in 0.0 space.

Jacob Cerathi
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.23 02:21:00 - [195]
 

It's more than slightly hypocritical.

Activating a Warp Scrambler should not be a guarantee that your target cannot get away. If it is, then you put scrams on the list of things that have no counter. Things that have no counters = bad. Unfortunately, the howling, whining mob can't see past the "If I want you to fight, you should have to fight!" mentality, and apparently CCP is catering to them.

Sad.

LUKEC
Destructive Influence
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.23 08:08:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: Jacob Cerathi
It's more than slightly hypocritical.

Activating a Warp Scrambler should not be a guarantee that your target cannot get away. If it is, then you put scrams on the list of things that have no counter. Things that have no counters = bad. Unfortunately, the howling, whining mob can't see past the "If I want you to fight, you should have to fight!" mentality, and apparently CCP is catering to them.

Sad.


It does not, there's quite a lot of things you can do:
a. kill the scrambler
b. drain him
c. make him lose lock
d. fly out of range



Earthan
Gallente
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2006.11.23 08:31:00 - [197]
 

I will share you my little secret, prototype cloak can save your butt alot of time when you jump into smal camps, and you sacrifice only on high slot.

Cloak at once , allign for warp out point,decloak when enemy is not in warp scrmbling range ( they will be going around trying to decloak you) and warp.It will be almost instantenous if have alligned when cloaked.

Not sure if for bs would work, they are really slow , but for industrials it worked pretty good should also for hac.Prolly even for bs.

Laboratus
Gallente
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2006.11.23 09:13:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Laboratus on 23/11/2006 09:15:32
Edited by: Laboratus on 23/11/2006 09:14:11
Edited by: Laboratus on 23/11/2006 09:13:48
Originally by: LUKEC


It does not, there's quite a lot of things you can do:
a. kill the scrambler
b. drain him
c. make him lose lock
d. fly out of range





Well, true. But every time someone does one of these things someone starts to scream nerf on the forums.
a. Inties are too easy to kill
b. nerf nos.
c. nerf ecm.
d. nerf snakes/vaga/whadever.

Oh and the best part is. Everyone of these is gonna get nerfed come kali.
The WCS as they are/were were just another sub game of wheter the target is fitting 0/1/2/3 poinst of strength so should I how many points of scram should I bring to hold him down 1/2/3/4.
Some ppl lose the game and whine on the forums.
Unfortunately due to the whiners being bad losers and good forum warriors we lose an aspect of the game.

Edit: Typos etc

Drusus Rensus
Gallente
Viper Intel Squad
Pure.
Posted - 2006.11.23 16:13:00 - [199]
 

A few things here I'd like to comment on.

My understanding is that this nerf was put in place in response to anti-pirate whining as much as pirate whining. It's aimed at the long-range ganker who uses them to ensure that he can get away if you get the upper hand. The idea is that if you start something, you're going to have to stick around to finish it. Thumbs up.

As for mission running, it's just a matter of risk/reward, which, as far as I can tell, is the mechanic that makes all of Eve "work". If you want better rewards, you're going to have to take higher risks, which includes becoming a PvP target for those who are hunting you while you're hunting something else. Running a high-level mission SOLO in low-sec is a high-risk activity that rewards richly. Want to lower the risk? Take some friends and fit your ships so that they'll also work for PvP instead of fitting your boat as a solo mission pwnmobile. Lower risk, lower reward.

You're seeing this nerf, I'm sure, because CCP saw the risk/reward equation being broken by both solo mission runners and pirating gate-campers. Both activities reward richly, and they weren't risky enough as it stood. Playing a game like this (especially a PvP game) should entail risk. Lots of risk. Lots of sweaty palms, edge of your seat risk. If it doesn't, how does it not get boring? CCP keeping it that way as much as they can is the right move IMO.

The last thing that I'd like to say is that the most valuable mod you can have in Eve isn't a WCS. Its called a friend. If your favorite mission running ground is infested with pirates take some time out from your mission grinding, equip your friends, and go turn up the risk on their favorite activity until they decide that the rewards they get aren't worth it, and go elsewhere. Ironically, when you do this, they won't be able to depend on their WCS to run away like they used to. It will come down to a battle of wills between you, and them, which is how it should have been all along. All is right with the world. No?

Derak
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.11.23 16:28:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
OK...let it die...even before I posted here I knew this would be the reaction. Enjoy yourself at your gatecamps, those of you who ARE pirates (and apologies to those who I may have unintentionally maligned). I just think you might find things are a bit quieter after the patch.


i hope they lock this...just wanted to stop in and say only people with brain damage will get killed at gate camps post cali as you can just warp to 0 away...and being able to warp out all the time is ghey :)

jerrard iceni
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.23 18:43:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: Drusus Rensus
A few things here I'd like to comment on.

My understanding is that this nerf was put in place in response to anti-pirate whining as much as pirate whining. It's aimed at the long-range ganker who uses them to ensure that he can get away if you get the upper hand. The idea is that if you start something, you're going to have to stick around to finish it. Thumbs up.

As for mission running, it's just a matter of risk/reward, which, as far as I can tell, is the mechanic that makes all of Eve "work". If you want better rewards, you're going to have to take higher risks, which includes becoming a PvP target for those who are hunting you while you're hunting something else. Running a high-level mission SOLO in low-sec is a high-risk activity that rewards richly. Want to lower the risk? Take some friends and fit your ships so that they'll also work for PvP instead of fitting your boat as a solo mission pwnmobile. Lower risk, lower reward.

You're seeing this nerf, I'm sure, because CCP saw the risk/reward equation being broken by both solo mission runners and pirating gate-campers. Both activities reward richly, and they weren't risky enough as it stood. Playing a game like this (especially a PvP game) should entail risk. Lots of risk. Lots of sweaty palms, edge of your seat risk. If it doesn't, how does it not get boring? CCP keeping it that way as much as they can is the right move IMO.

The last thing that I'd like to say is that the most valuable mod you can have in Eve isn't a WCS. Its called a friend. If your favorite mission running ground is infested with pirates take some time out from your mission grinding, equip your friends, and go turn up the risk on their favorite activity until they decide that the rewards they get aren't worth it, and go elsewhere. Ironically, when you do this, they won't be able to depend on their WCS to run away like they used to. It will come down to a battle of wills between you, and them, which is how it should have been all along. All is right with the world. No?


/signed - this sums it up just right for me.

i cant help but think the mission runners are over reacting slightly. lets be honest, pirates arnt really that much of a threat to mission runners and will be even less so after kali with the hp increase and the warp to 0 option. plus, most pirates fly solo or in small gangs of 2/3 peeps. and how many of those gangs have a probe ship with them? very, very few. personally, i know of very few mission runners that have lost their ships to pirates and those who did where ganked at gates/stations. hell! i even used to do lvl 1,2 and 3 missions in low sec (and only in low sec) and i only ever lost one ship (to Save Our Souls - the ebil swine).
i can understand how u feel that the wcs nerf will make u more vulnerable to the npcs, but then has been said already - fit a sensor booster. afterall u have already weakened ur tank by fitting a wcs.
carebears seem to have alot of common misconceptions about life in low sec. yes, u could die sometime. thats life, it happens and could still easily happen in high sec (afterall u dont have the protection of concord in deadspace, i think, and ur probaley even less aware of whose around you) but surviving in low sec is surprisingly easy. wcs might make u feel safe but it also encourages lazy piloting.
plus if u change the nerf on wcs so that the penalty only effects wcs fitted after the first then ccp might as well not bother nerfing wcs at all. all the problems of wcs in the 1st place will still be there

Constantine Arcanum
Bad Company DBD
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2006.11.23 18:50:00 - [202]
 

if you have a problem with pirates, shoot them.

if you don't want to pvp that seems strange as EVE is a PVP centric game...

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.23 19:25:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: jerrard iceni
i cant help but think the mission runners are over reacting slightly. lets be honest, pirates arnt really that much of a threat to mission runners and will be even less so after kali with the hp increase and the warp to 0 option.
Warp to 0km doesn't affect in any way priates warping to you on your mission. HP increase doesn't affect it either, as the mission runner will be ECM'd to death and slaughtered like a pig. And in Kali they will be able to find you a LOT easier.

Originally by: jerrard iceni
plus, most pirates fly solo or in small gangs of 2/3 peeps. and how many of those gangs have a probe ship with them? very, very few. personally, i know of very few mission runners that have lost their ships to pirates and those who did where ganked at gates/stations.
I know PLENTY of mission runners who were ganked ON THEIR MISSION...this is NOT about gate camps!

Originally by: jerrard iceni
fit a sensor booster. afterall u have already weakened ur tank by fitting a wcs.
1. As I've already said, I ALREADY have a sensor booster on my ship...a second one will stack and so will NOT undo the range nerf. 2. how does fitting a different low slot item reduce my SHIELD tank?

Originally by: jerrard iceni
carebears seem to have alot of common misconceptions about life in low sec. yes, u could die sometime. thats life, it happens and could still easily happen in high sec (afterall u dont have the protection of concord in deadspace, i think, and ur probaley even less aware of whose around you) but surviving in low sec is surprisingly easy. wcs might make u feel safe but it also encourages lazy piloting.
OK, so if it's not REALLY safe, what is the objection to reducing the nerf to allow ONE WCS to be fitted?
Originally by: jerrard iceni
plus if u change the nerf on wcs so that the penalty only effects wcs fitted after the first then ccp might as well not bother nerfing wcs at all. all the problems of wcs in the 1st place will still be there
That's a ridiculous statement. With the change I suggested you wouldn't see the multi-stabbed snipers and Vagabonds. but you might actually see the odd mission runner in 0.4's...without it...well...post here when you get lonely.

B0rN2KiLL
MicroFunks
Green Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.23 20:46:00 - [204]
 

Edited by: B0rn2KiLL on 23/11/2006 20:45:57
make all high sec low sec, make all low sec 0.0.

then slap me in a ninja spacesuit n give me a shotgun YARRRR!!


oh, and tbh, i personlly hope ccp reconsiders, give it a 100% penalty for fitting one, then starting with the second, your highslots start going offline, or taking off 1k grid.

Twisted Evil

Laboratus
Gallente
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
Posted - 2006.11.23 20:52:00 - [205]
 

Edited by: Laboratus on 23/11/2006 20:52:18
Edit: Never mind.

Scordite
Posted - 2006.11.24 18:28:00 - [206]
 

I figured out how to solve this problem by the way, it's quite simple.

Make pve (missions in particular) more similar to pvp. This way, if you set up for mission running, you will be able to fight back against pirates. Hell, running missions will even train you for how to do it as well.

This way mission runners will feel safer, and probably also have more fun running missions. Pirates will get more interesting fights, and more useful loot. More ships will be blown up, so miners and industrialists make more money. Everyone wins.

Well, that's the concept. I will leave it up to CCP to figure out how to do it Razz

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.24 18:59:00 - [207]
 

Scordite: a good idea. Basically, improve the fairly lamentable AI that the NPCs use. I'm not here saying level 4 missions are hard...they aren't "AFK" as some PVP'ers would have you believe, but it is true that once you've done a mission, next time it's easier...because they NEVER change. A little bit of randomization in missions would be no bad thing.

And yes, if it can be structured so that an NPC spawn works in the same way as a PVP spawn, then that might help...but at least ONE thing needs to be fixed before that, and that is the overpowered nature of ECM...if they give all the NPCs three multispectral ECM's each and a couple of sensor dampeners, missions would become impossible...in exactly the same way that it is IMPOSSIBLE to beat a pirate gang if they do manage to get the drop on you. Currently, the only counter to ECM, is more ECM...and that makes it a simple numbers game...bring more ships, and you win.


Scordite
Posted - 2006.11.24 19:13:00 - [208]
 

Better AI and variarions in each mission is only one step. It'd also have to be changed so that instead of missions pitting you against a veritable fleet of battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers and frigate support, you'd face the equivalent of small gangs, or hell, even single ships.. Of course, each ship in such a scenario would have to be a lot more of a threat than the puny npcs we know today.. With similar dps and tank to player flown ships of the same type.

This removes the focus on sustainable tank that current missions have, which means fitting more gankily (I don't care if it's not a word, you know what I mean) becomes an option, cap injectors become usable and so on.. Basically the only difference between an npc setup and a pirate setup would be the warp scrambler, unless the mission runner actually WANTED to kill the pirates instead of just fighting them off.

Admit it pirates, most of you would love more challenging, more willing to fight, more useful loot dropping missioners as well Smile

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.26 21:19:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Scordite
Admit it pirates, most of you would love more challenging, more willing to fight, more useful loot dropping missioners as well Smile
You're not encountering the same pirates as me. They want LESS challenging, LESS able to run away and...wel..yes of course they want better loot...

Ansuru Starlancer
UK1 Zero
Posted - 2006.11.26 22:53:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: SN3263827
With the introduction of Warp to 0, a reduction in the usefulness of WCS was absolutely necessary, otherwise mission runners etc would be nigh invincible.

People need to stop looking at individual changes in a vacuum and more how they interact with each other.


Blah. Warp to 0km is a nice little trick..."Look Mr Carebear, it's perfectly safe, us nasty pirates can't shoot you...come on in"

Of course, no one mentions what's going to happen on the OTHER side of the gate.



And in the middle of their warp, the bubble you'd been anchoring for the past minute or so activates, and they're sucked out of warp 50km from the gate!!! Brilliant!!


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