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Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:11:00 - [31]
 

Mal...explain how that helps?

Mal Hondo
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:13:00 - [32]
 

for a deadspace mission in lowsec, offline your stabs when you reach the gate - then, hey, no penalties for having stabs! (except the wasted lowslots).


Phenom Fighter
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:15:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
It's not TRAVELLING I'm worried about...it's actually being ganked ON THE MISSION...so at that point there's little point having an OFFLINE WCS that I can't ONLINE again because I don't have 95% cap



Well, you'll have to work for your isk... just like those pirates will now have to work hard for there kills... Plus, to catch you in a mission they will need a good prober on their side.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:15:00 - [34]
 

OK...I offline at the gate and go through...then 10 minutes later the pirate gank squad scan me and come through the gate...I'm a little busy with the missions, so DON'T have 95% cap to put the WCS back online...what was the point of fitting it again?

Mal Hondo
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:16:00 - [35]
 

for travelling.


Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:19:00 - [36]
 

Pirates work hard for their kills? yeah, sure...

I don't BLAME you guys for not being able to see my point of view. I mean your whole playing style is based on forcing what YOU want upon someone else who DOESN'T want it. EVE used to cater a little bit (more than any other game) for those who DIDN'T want it, but now they are reversing that...CCP have become the gate gankers, forcing their idea of playstyle on everyone else. I just hope they have thought it through is all.

Mal Hondo
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:20:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Mal Hondo
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Mal Hondo
no offense mate, but your opinion of stabs is not the majorities.
Just 'cos they shout louderst doesn't make them the majority. I accept they were abused. I'm not asking to go back to how things were. ONE stab, without a penalty. Hell, for all I care ONE stab, and then the SECOND stab gives a 100% penalty to range and lock time.

I know you poor pirates have had it SO hard for a long time...but these new rules on WCS are going to allow you to go on a gankfest an you know it...plus the new scanning will allow you to find mission runners in a fraction of the time...and then when you get there, unless they are VERY dumb they won't have a WCS fitted (I don't think ANY of you appreciate what a 50% increase in lock time woudl DO to the average mission), so your one scrambler will be enough to guarantee you the easy kill you crave.

The suggestion I'm making isn't exactly groundbreaking. you should be supporting it as it will irritate the 12 year old who just goes out ganking...those of you who count yourself "professional" are hardly going to struggle to overcome ONE warp scrambler...or are you REALLY that pathetic?


i am no pirate mate.


Mal Hondo
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:21:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Pirates work hard for their kills? yeah, sure...

I don't BLAME you guys for not being able to see my point of view. I mean your whole playing style is based on forcing what YOU want upon someone else who DOESN'T want it. EVE used to cater a little bit (more than any other game) for those who DIDN'T want it, but now they are reversing that...CCP have become the gate gankers, forcing their idea of playstyle on everyone else. I just hope they have thought it through is all.


lol - tux - plz read this.

Phenom Fighter
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:22:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Pirates work hard for their kills? yeah, sure...

I don't BLAME you guys for not being able to see my point of view. I mean your whole playing style is based on forcing what YOU want upon someone else who DOESN'T want it. EVE used to cater a little bit (more than any other game) for those who DIDN'T want it, but now they are reversing that...CCP have become the gate gankers, forcing their idea of playstyle on everyone else. I just hope they have thought it through is all.


Lol dont patronise me carebear. Im trying to help out like every1 else in this thread. Petition to CCP with your problem before crying to eve's members

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:28:00 - [40]
 

Attitude above kind of proves my point. And just 'cos I'm a carebear in EVE, don't go thinking I'm quaking in my boots at your strong words. This is an open forum for carebears and psycho's alike. I'll post where the hell I want.

Phenom Fighter
State Protectorate
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:31:00 - [41]
 

Sure thing, just dont expect anybody to help you now, this is flame-bait

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:32:00 - [42]
 

LOL. Sorry I must have glossed over all the offers of help and support that were in the START of this thread...

BlackMoon Thrawn
Stimulus
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:34:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Pirates work hard for their kills? yeah, sure...

I don't BLAME you guys for not being able to see my point of view. I mean your whole playing style is based on forcing what YOU want upon someone else who DOESN'T want it. EVE used to cater a little bit (more than any other game) for those who DIDN'T want it, but now they are reversing that...CCP have become the gate gankers, forcing their idea of playstyle on everyone else. I just hope they have thought it through is all.


Quit saying "you", like everyone here is a pirate. It's you who cant see anyone elses point of view besides yours and pirates. I have never pirated a day in my eve life, but I want wcs nerfed because you shouldnt have to get 5 points on someone to keep them from warping off when things get to hot. Hell you shouldnt have to put 2 points on them. 7.5k scrams are useless on just about anything but an inty or dedicated tackleing frig.

You say that missions dont pay enough to take others along? Perhaps your asumptions are based on how much you can make on level 4's in highsec and the risk for doing them in lowsec. The high sec missions are what are out of balance but thats another thread.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:36:00 - [44]
 

Blackmoon...WHERE did I suggest allowing FIVE WCS on a ship again? ONE. that's all I'm asking. Why is that so hard?

MyOwnSling
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:37:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: MyOwnSling on 15/11/2006 20:36:51
Originally by: BlackMoon Thrawn
Originally by: Grey Area
Pirates work hard for their kills? yeah, sure...

I don't BLAME you guys for not being able to see my point of view. I mean your whole playing style is based on forcing what YOU want upon someone else who DOESN'T want it. EVE used to cater a little bit (more than any other game) for those who DIDN'T want it, but now they are reversing that...CCP have become the gate gankers, forcing their idea of playstyle on everyone else. I just hope they have thought it through is all.


Quit saying "you", like everyone here is a pirate. It's you who cant see anyone elses point of view besides yours and pirates. I have never pirated a day in my eve life, but I want wcs nerfed because you shouldnt have to get 5 points on someone to keep them from warping off when things get to hot. Hell you shouldnt have to put 2 points on them. 7.5k scrams are useless on just about anything but an inty or dedicated tackleing frig.

You say that missions dont pay enough to take others along? Perhaps your asumptions are based on how much you can make on level 4's in highsec and the risk for doing them in lowsec. The high sec missions are what are out of balance but thats another thread.

I have to agree here. I am also not a pirate and I think the stab nerf is a good idea. I do run missions in low sec, all you have to do is pay a little attention and keep on your toes and you will be fine.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:38:00 - [46]
 

OK...let it die...even before I posted here I knew this would be the reaction. Enjoy yourself at your gatecamps, those of you who ARE pirates (and apologies to those who I may have unintentionally maligned). I just think you might find things are a bit quieter after the patch.

The Armin
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:46:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: The Armin on 15/11/2006 20:52:55
Better ideas:

- Move all lvl3 and lvl4 missions to lowsec
- Increase mish payment (0.0 mish too pls) risk vs reward y'know
- Release Single Player Eve for ppl like the OP. (Means less server lag for us who actually play, 10 000 carebears spawning 60 ships every 2 minutes probably hurts poor TQ.)


This would mean that mission runners actually would have to gang up together and start fighting evil pirates, and other mission corps for the better mission agents. :D

Or they could play singleplayer, no loss :)

Oh 'n here's another suggestion for you:

Usually it's just the gates to empire and chokepoints that gets camped. Get Raven, fit 6 stabs, or 6 of the new nano stabs, all good, warp to 0, warp to 0, warp to 0. Pirate campers ain't gonna follow you and can't catch you on the other side. Now find Station, buy Interceptor, haul mods, do mish as a perfectly happy carebear untill someone decide to spoil your fun.

All it required was 2 min of thinkin' Rolling Eyes

BlackMoon Thrawn
Stimulus
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:56:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Grey Area
Blackmoon...WHERE did I suggest allowing FIVE WCS on a ship again? ONE. that's all I'm asking. Why is that so hard?


You would need 5 pionts of scram to hold someone with 4 wcs. Thats part of the issue you need one more point than stab and in amar, alotof minmitar and even caldari ships that gets hard to achieve real fast. on a ship with 3 mids or less the setup will be severely gimped fitting a couple scrams. EVE is not a solo game one needs other people for things but, a dedicated tackling ship should not be a neccesity every time you want to pvp.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:57:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 15/11/2006 21:04:22
Originally by: BlackMoon Thrawn
Originally by: Grey Area
Hell you shouldnt have to put 2 points on them. 7.5k scrams are useless on just about anything but an inty or dedicated tackleing frig.


Simple question:

Why SHOULDN'T scramblers be worthless on all but dedicated ships?

In almost every Sci-Fi genre that even has scramblers they are always mounted on dedicated ships that are specialized to do precisely that; scramble other ships. Here we have another imbalance in that all ships can mount a scrambler but no ship that even wants to defend itself can counter it.

Put heavy penalties on those ships that mount WCS, but also make it so that only dedicated scrambling ships (anyone ever here of an interdictor?) are required to actually scram. Then have counter-modules that your opponents' ECCM ships can use to counter the effects of your scramblers.

This way your gate camps are functional, your ability to "protect" your turf is unharmed but a single pirate has to fight for his prey and work at it just like those he is attacking. And a prey that does get scrambed also has an option; take out the ECM ship before its friends take out you. And while you are at it, make any scram considered hostile so that the agression timer is working.

As it is with the new rules its a win-win for those that are ganking....

BlackMoon Thrawn
Stimulus
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:00:00 - [50]
 

Quote:
- Release Single Player Eve for ppl like the OP.


No, eve is a pvp game in just about every facet. It wouldnt be eve if there was no risk.

BlackMoon Thrawn
Stimulus
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:04:00 - [51]
 

Quote:
Put heavy penalties on those ships that mount WCS, but also make it so that only dedicated scrambling ships (anyone ever here of an interdictor?) are required to actually scram. Then have counter-modules that your opponents' ECCM ships can use to counter the effects of your scramblers.



Shocked so you want interdictors in lowsec AND wcs to be as effective as eccm?

Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:06:00 - [52]
 

Oh goodness. The original poster, and people like him, make me want to drink bleach.

There are more than just "pirates" and "non-pirates." There are other types of combat and the WCS nerf is going to help there too.

Also, this WCS nerf is a nerf for pirates more than anyone. It's a nerf to low sec gate snipers who snipe all day long with impunity because nobody can ever catch them.

Lastly, I'm sorry, but involuntary PvP is not a bug, it's a part of the game. Live with it or play something else.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:07:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: BlackMoon Thrawn
Originally by: Grey Area
Blackmoon...WHERE did I suggest allowing FIVE WCS on a ship again? ONE. that's all I'm asking. Why is that so hard?


You would need 5 pionts of scram to hold someone with 4 wcs. Thats part of the issue you need one more point than stab and in amar, alotof minmitar and even caldari ships that gets hard to achieve real fast. on a ship with 3 mids or less the setup will be severely gimped fitting a couple scrams. EVE is not a solo game one needs other people for things but, a dedicated tackling ship should not be a neccesity every time you want to pvp.
I detect a little flaw here...you shouldn't need a friend every time you want to PVP...but you MUST take a friend if you want to mission in low sec.

I say again...a single point of warp core stab to be allowed on a ship without a penalty. Still giving up a module to fit it, and, as I have suggested, gimp the second and above WCS even harder if you must. Anything else makes it too easy for pirates. And whilst there are hardened low sec mission runners with balls of steel who fart fireballs and don't use WCS because they are for GIRLS, there is a whole load of namby pamby carebears who occasionally get a mission just over the border in a 0.4, who might want to try and do it. Without the (probably false) security of a single WCS, I think they will stop coming. I think that's the opposite of what the pirates would want. I may be wrong, only time will tell.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:08:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: BlackMoon Thrawn
Quote:
Put heavy penalties on those ships that mount WCS, but also make it so that only dedicated scrambling ships (anyone ever here of an interdictor?) are required to actually scram. Then have counter-modules that your opponents' ECCM ships can use to counter the effects of your scramblers.



Shocked so you want interdictors in lowsec AND wcs to be as effective as eccm?

No, I want interdictors to do their job, stopping ships from warping. Leave the heavy penalties for ships that mount WCS like the new rules provide and impose heavy penalties for ships that mount scramblers that aren't designed to be Interdictors.

Then provide for anti-interdictor equipement that can be mounted on ECCM ships (and ONLY ECCM ships) to counter the Interdictors for fleet warfare.

As it is right now almost any ships is an Interdictor with adding one module. Make them use the ships designed for it.

Cold Gorilla
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:10:00 - [55]
 

I would change penalty from lock range to damage, same percentage, that way any one who fits them, wont be able to do much damage, yet u ll still be able to use em on EW ships, since they are dead coffins any ways.

Grey Area
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:11:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Alowishus
Oh goodness. The original poster, and people like him, make me want to drink bleach.
I was going to type something here, but it's probably against forum rules. Fill in the blanks yourself.

Originally by: Alowishus
There are more than just "pirates" and "non-pirates." There are other types of combat and the WCS nerf is going to help there too.
AGAIN, not asking to UNDO the nerf, just to modify it...I don't see ONE WCS being the end of the world for ANY sort of combat team to overcome.

Originally by: Alowishus
Also, this WCS nerf is a nerf for pirates more than anyone. It's a nerf to low sec gate snipers who snipe all day long with impunity because nobody can ever catch them.
Again...ONE WCS without penalty wouldn't exactly make them bullet proof.

Originally by: Alowishus
Lastly, I'm sorry, but involuntary PvP is not a bug, it's a part of the game. Live with it or play something else.
If all the people who did NOT want involuntary PVP took your last three words of advice...how many subscribers do you think would be left?

Audri Fisher
Caldari
Burning Bush Enterprises
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:14:00 - [57]
 

Just my experience, but the extra rewards in low sec do not justify having to run and hide every 2 missions becuase of pirates.
Why I confine myself to empire or 0.0

Pirates in Low sec get first srtike capabilities. Can I kill the pirate if he was in 0.0? usually yes, becuase I can dictate the engagement terms, use my faster lock time, ect. can I kill him with gate guns on me? no. Basicaly a pirate has first shot advantage, which in a Battleship vs anything smaller is is almost I win. Yea, It's fun starting out a fight with 1/3 your cap in a cruiser. Rolling Eyes

Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:17:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Alowishus on 15/11/2006 21:19:13
Originally by: Grey Area
If all the people who did NOT want involuntary PVP took your last three words of advice...how many subscribers do you think would be left?


Many. Not that it matters. The game is not intended to be for people who do not want involuntary pvp. It says right on the ****ing box. The only sad part about you people leaving would be losing the satisfaction of getting hate mail after a kill. But mostly I engage in PvP with others who want to engage in PvP and who already live in 0.0. If all the whiney losers left the game I probably wouldn't even notice.

If you don't want the risk then don't engage in risky behavior. It's a consious choice to do anything in low sec. If you don't want risk, don't go. You don't have to. Nobody is forcing you. Stay in high sec where the risk is lower but so is the reward. If you want more reward you have to accept more risk. It's like ****ing a hooker without a condom and getting mad at God for not nerfing AIDS.

Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:18:00 - [59]
 

this change is one of the highlights in kali, i just love it.

now ppl like grey get hit by darwin - UH I NOW HAVE TO B CAREFUL IN LOWSEC TO NOT GET GANKED,
and not just fit a module and b totally safe.

there are so many ways to stay safe,
but u, grey, are just too lazy or dumb to use em.


but dont worry, therell b some1 else to rescue the damsel when u quit.

Mortuus
Minmatar
Divine Power.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:21:00 - [60]
 

The key here seems to be, learn to actually pay attention to the game, and not just the mindless NPCs.

Also, most of the people that want WCS removed are not pirates, they are 0.0 alliance members, and its mainly to prevent 0.0 pirates and other alliance gank squads from fitting a ton of stabs on ships like a Vaga or Raven, or from stabbing out the extra lows on their snipers.

What is the effect on low sec gameplay? You might actually have to think before jumping through that gate into 0.4 space.

God will it be nice not to have to put 3+ points on NPCing enemy ravens though.


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