open All Channels
seplocked Out of Pod Experience
blankseplocked "I'm just role-playing..."
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:00:00 - [1]
 

I find this topic interesting and would like a discusion on it. I post it here mainly to avoid hurting personal feelings and starting a flamewar in someone else's topic.

I would like to discuss the implications and relations between a person's online character and their real-life. First of all I want to make it clear that I am not qualified to make psychiatric assessments of any kind so what follows is purely the opinion of a layman.

Many people will use a game such as this to behave in a way that is generally arrogant, aloof, condescending and derogatory to others. Often a response to this kind of behaviour is that the person must have a sad 'real-life.' However these people will respond by saying you don't know about my real life I am succesful and happy, I am just role-playing, it's a game blahblahblah etc.

Personally I do not believe a distinction can be made in this case. If you must use the medium of a game to beat your own chest or behave like an ass, I believe it very much reflects upon your 'real life'. Playing a game after all is part of your life, and the character you project is part of you operating in a different set of social rules and circumstances.

I believe that if you feel the need to be rude and disrespectful to someone in a game, it is your life outside the game that is the prime mover in this type of behaviour. People will always deny this, but to be frank, I do not believe them. The chest-beating type is never going to turn around and admit he lives a sad existence, from which the only escape they can find is to be some kind of online tough guy.

This doesnt mean a person who plays a pirate has a bad life, it means someone who plays a pirate and then, unprovoked, is derogatory to his victims, has a bad life at least in their own minds.

If you want people to think you are happy, you should behave as if you are happy. People that are secure in themselves, do not need to knock down other people, even in the context of a game.

So what do people think? Delusional ramblings, or making sense?

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:08:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Nev Clavain
I find this topic interesting and would like a discusion on it. I post it here mainly to avoid hurting personal feelings and starting a flamewar in someone else's topic.

I would like to discuss the implications and relations between a person's online character and their real-life. First of all I want to make it clear that I am not qualified to make psychiatric assessments of any kind so what follows is purely the opinion of a layman.

Many people will use a game such as this to behave in a way that is generally arrogant, aloof, condescending and derogatory to others. Often a response to this kind of behaviour is that the person must have a sad 'real-life.' However these people will respond by saying you don't know about my real life I am succesful and happy, I am just role-playing, it's a game blahblahblah etc.

Personally I do not believe a distinction can be made in this case. If you must use the medium of a game to beat your own chest or behave like an ass, I believe it very much reflects upon your 'real life'. Playing a game after all is part of your life, and the character you project is part of you operating in a different set of social rules and circumstances.

I believe that if you feel the need to be rude and disrespectful to someone in a game, it is your life outside the game that is the prime mover in this type of behaviour. People will always deny this, but to be frank, I do not believe them. The chest-beating type is never going to turn around and admit he lives a sad existence, from which the only escape they can find is to be some kind of online tough guy.

This doesnt mean a person who plays a pirate has a bad life, it means someone who plays a pirate and then, unprovoked, is derogatory to his victims, has a bad life at least in their own minds.

If you want people to think you are happy, you should behave as if you are happy. People that are secure in themselves, do not need to knock down other people, even in the context of a game.

So what do people think? Delusional ramblings, or making sense?

From what I've found, the people who have problems in real life are those who complain about "griefers" and whine constantly about how the griefers have problems in real life.

The so-called "griefers" are perfectly normal.

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:22:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari

From what I've found, the people who have problems in real life are those who complain about "griefers" and whine constantly about how the griefers have problems in real life.

The so-called "griefers" are perfectly normal.


I'm not really talking about particular choices of playstyle, as opposed to how people treat each other, in the sense of chat / forums etc. There are plenty of 'griefers' who will be very pleasant after the event and perhaps tell you where you went wrong etc. There are some who will be offensive just to rub it in. I'm talking about the need of some people to consistently knock others down with words. Of course everyone has a bad day and has an outburst sometimes or w/e.

I would agree with you though that people who feel the need to complain about everything and anything in game, probably have the same attitude in real life as well, which will not stand them in good stead. SO perhaps different aspects of the same phenomenon?

I think that some people's characters aren't as far from their real life as they would perhaps wish, which I suppose applies to complaining as much as being offensive: an aspect I hadn't thought of.

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:33:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Nev Clavain
Originally by: Dark Shikari

From what I've found, the people who have problems in real life are those who complain about "griefers" and whine constantly about how the griefers have problems in real life.

The so-called "griefers" are perfectly normal.


I'm not really talking about particular choices of playstyle, as opposed to how people treat each other, in the sense of chat / forums etc. There are plenty of 'griefers' who will be very pleasant after the event and perhaps tell you where you went wrong etc. There are some who will be offensive just to rub it in. I'm talking about the need of some people to consistently knock others down with words. Of course everyone has a bad day and has an outburst sometimes or w/e.

I would agree with you though that people who feel the need to complain about everything and anything in game, probably have the same attitude in real life as well, which will not stand them in good stead. SO perhaps different aspects of the same phenomenon?

I think that some people's characters aren't as far from their real life as they would perhaps wish, which I suppose applies to complaining as much as being offensive: an aspect I hadn't thought of.

In that sense, maybe you have a point. If someone acts like a total jerk in-game, not just through their actions but also through their tone and perhaps name-calling, etc, it is most likely not "roleplaying."

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:35:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Nev Clavain
There are plenty of 'griefers' who will be very pleasant after the event and perhaps tell you where you went wrong etc.
-5 for misuse of the term 'griefer'. But I get what you mean, and I agree that people in-game characters in general probably reflect the real person to some extent. You can roleplay being a pirate, but it's more of a challenge, not to mention far less worthwhile, to roleplay a straight up *******.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:35:00 - [6]
 

Just because I'm a slaver in Eve, it doesn't automatically follow that I want to own slaves in real life.

Taihira
Posted - 2006.11.15 15:36:00 - [7]
 

best comment I've ever heard:

"Well, <name> can't really help it. He's roleplaying an ***hole... unfortunately, he's a method actor"
Laughing

and, no, it very much depends on the player, you can't generalise one with the other. I know plenty of roleplaying munchkins who have a very happy life, and are still idiots ingames. I know some people who have horrendous real-life issues and who play lovely characters.

I've also seen one or two players who've done the whole "rah, you're pathetic, useless scum, I laugh over your corpse", bit of "tough-guy" stuff you describe, and then later on will send messages to you which are perfectly nice, saying "thanks for the fun roleplaying that, well done on the fight, see you around" or the likes.

in all, Nev, I'm afraid that you've made a sweeping generalisation that is only true for a small proportion of the players

Commander Buttnugget
Posted - 2006.11.15 16:22:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Commander Buttnugget on 15/11/2006 16:23:03
Quote:
From what I've found, the people who have problems in real life are those who complain about "griefers" and whine constantly about how the griefers have problems in real life.

The so-called "griefers" are perfectly normal.


That fomula doesn't for work me...

I have a pretty darn successful life, and I hate griefers & PK'ers. and will ***** about them until they no longer exist in EVE. (which means until the servers die...)

And it's not even like I'm a liberal or socialist, I'm very conservative in RL, expect ppl to work for what they want, etc...

I just think playing the game that way is lame, so I let them and CCP know it as much as possible...

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2006.11.15 16:23:00 - [9]
 

^^ Damn alphebetical alt B.S. That was me up there...

Dark Shikari
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.15 16:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Commander Buttnugget

Quote:
From what I've found, the people who have problems in real life are those who complain about "griefers" and whine constantly about how the griefers have problems in real life.

The so-called "griefers" are perfectly normal.


That fomula doesn't for work me...

I have a pretty darn successful life, and I hate griefers & PK'ers. and will ***** about them until they no longer exist in EVE. (which means until the servers die...)

Considering that CCP wants to encourage "PKing" and what you see as "griefing" as much as possible, based on their own mission statement, you should find another game.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal and I still think you're nuts.

Agent Li
Caldari
CCCP INC
Posted - 2006.11.15 16:31:00 - [11]
 

Gee, they wouldn't give us weapons if they didn't expect us to use them on occasion.

Also, I have a problem with anyone who can't distinguish between roleplaying and real life. This stuff here is just for fun - and if a few bits and bytes get rearranged by a blaster or railgun, it's still harmless fun.

The billions of "isk" lost - mere whispers of electrons.

Some people are just wound too tight. Time to loosen that ponytail.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.15 16:48:00 - [12]
 

I am a sadist and masochist. I pay CCP per month to receive displeasures and to vent discomforts. I am perfectly normal and I think CCP forgot to advertise EvE as a clean adult game of S and M.

Most EvE players cry grief because they do not expect EvE to be harsh and have to much attachments to owning virtual stuffs. Taking away virtual stuffs from players equates to removing candies from babies. They all end up crying.

Laocoon
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.11.15 17:23:00 - [13]
 

My character has podded and 'PKed' many people, but irl i have never so much as even shouted at anyone Confused

Agent Li
Caldari
CCCP INC
Posted - 2006.11.15 17:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Laocoon
My character has podded and 'PKed' many people, but irl i have never so much as even shouted at anyone Confused



Funny, I'm the other way around.

Kibed Dulick
Posted - 2006.11.15 17:38:00 - [15]
 

I find it quite normal that people want to blow stuff up its eciting and thrilling and humans tend to lvoe that.

Beef Hardslab
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2006.11.15 17:59:00 - [16]
 

Having been a roleplayer for almost 20 years, I can say that I can and do sometimes play characters completely different from my own personality.

The true test of a roleplayer is to be able to convincingly play a role far different than the person you truly are. Anybody can "roleplay" what they think they themselves would do in a game; it takes talent to be able to roleplay a character utterly different than yourself.

I think it helps that I have been a GM for 12+ years (I game pretty religiously once a week), so in the course of gaming I have to assume the mantles of many and varied personalities.

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:04:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
Considering that CCP wants to encourage "PKing" and what you see as "griefing" as much as possible, based on their own mission statement, you should find another game.


Well the game has changed since launch, and will continue to do so, for the better IMO.

So I'll stick around thank you very much...

Ceramik
Bannable Offense.
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:31:00 - [18]
 

Usually the people who "beat their chests" or act "better than everyone else" are the people who really are successful in life, Type-A personalities. Aggressive, successful, dominant, overall intense people. They are the types who get all the women, get the best jobs, and generally succeed in life. Get used to it.

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:31:00 - [19]
 

Some interesting replies here, thanks everyone.

I'd like to make a few distinctions though, as I think my first post has been a little misunderstood.

What I am saying reflects on your real life, is not the profession you choose within a game, but rather how you treat people. You can as Jenny put's it "inflict and receive pain" on others within the boundaries of the game without this really reflecting anything about your real life in my opinion. Really you are just exploring the game you paid for.

However what I object to , and I think speaks volumes about people, is when roleplaying , or saying "its just a game" is used as an excuse to be truly offensive to people - e.g. smacktalk, nasty personal comments, even at a lower level insinuating you are better than everyone else through certain modes of speech and phraseology.

Of course a slaver in game does not necessarily mean a slaver in real life. But to me a rude and offensive person in game equates very much to real life, and probably stems from some kind of bitterness or anger. I don't think PKing measn this at all, because really that is a large part of the game and why we are all here.

An example I particularly liked though was from Tahira:

Quote:
"I've also seen one or two players who've done the whole "rah, you're pathetic, useless scum, I laugh over your corpse", bit of "tough-guy" stuff you describe, and then later on will send messages to you which are perfectly nice, saying "thanks for the fun roleplaying that, well done on the fight, see you around" or the likes.


This to me is acceptable, as long as the person takes the time to come back and clarify the situation, I would actually find the whole situation to enrich my game experience. However sadly most smacktalkers in my experience would never do this, because from the outset they are trying to cause offence, and definately not trying to enrich the game for you in any sense.

I guess for me its not really the words but a question of intent behind them, as to how reflective i think it is of a person's actual personality

Agent Li
Caldari
CCCP INC
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:34:00 - [20]
 

I've found (as a GM for decades, and then seeing people online) that most, but not all, people play their gestalt image - that is, who they really wish they were, and how they really wish they could behave if there were no consequences.

Few people actually know how to roleplay properly.

Most of us, on the inside, are fairly hideous, ravenously immoral, ethically challenged creatures.

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:41:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ceramik
Usually the people who "beat their chests" or act "better than everyone else" are the people who really are successful in life, Type-A personalities. Aggressive, successful, dominant, overall intense people. They are the types who get all the women, get the best jobs, and generally succeed in life. Get used to it.


The point is they are doing it in a game. Also I know of people in real life who beat their chests and act like type A personalities as you call them, but achieve absolutely nothing, live in poverty and beat their wives. They still think they are number one but quite simply they are delusional and compensating for the reality they don't want to face. Often their high opinion of themselves lands them in jail.

Commander Buttnugget
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:42:00 - [22]
 

Quote:
Usually the people who "beat their chests" or act "better than everyone else" are the people who really are successful in life, Type-A personalities. Aggressive, successful, dominant, overall intense people. They are the types who get all the women, get the best jobs, and generally succeed in life. Get used to it.


That simply does not apply to the internet or MMO's IMO.

That is true if you actually have something to lose, where other ppl can see the real you taking those risks. That's no the case in EVE.

ppl who don't have the balls to take the risks in RL, have a nice place to take them on the internet or in an MMO where there are no RL consequences for failure...

I think that's why so many go over the top, and just RP an *******...

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2006.11.15 18:52:00 - [23]
 

^^ Me again Evil or Very Mad

Why can't we pick a default avatar?

Nira Li
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2006.11.15 19:06:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: DarkMatter
^^ Me again Evil or Very Mad

Why can't we pick a default avatar?


we can Razz

it's in the settings, choose character and fill in the Default Chracter box

DarkMatter
Sintered Sanity
Posted - 2006.11.15 19:09:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Nira Li
Originally by: DarkMatter
^^ Me again Evil or Very Mad

Why can't we pick a default avatar?


we can Razz

it's in the settings, choose character and fill in the Default Chracter box


NICE!

Thank you...

Never was a problem for me b4 until I made that stupid hauler alt.


Alowishus
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2006.11.15 19:20:00 - [26]
 

I think there is some truth in what the OP has to say. I believe there exists a little disfunctionality in all of us. A desire to be maybe a little sadistic sometimes (how many of us picked on other kids in school?), I think it's human nature. And yes, a game is a perfect place to indulge in these behaviors for a couple reasons. First, nobody actually gets hurt. Secondly, there are no consiquences, nobody to beat you up, arrest you, etc. I'm not sure if it makes you more disfunctional or less disfunctional that you'd choose only to be an ******* while playing games, it at least shows restraint.

I do, however, find the extremes interesting. People who are sheepish in real life but may be awesome at killing people at FPS or a notorius pirate in Eve, or just a big jerk on the forums. And then the other end, people who are really sheepish in real life and also in the game, often industrialists who play alone, diligently, getting super duper rich, not wanting to interact with anyone else. Then, I suppose, you could have people that are real *******s in real life but might be nice/helpful in Eve (though I find this scenario hard to picture in my head).

Originally by: Nev Clavain
Many people will use a game such as this to behave in a way that is generally arrogant, aloof, condescending and derogatory to others.


This is how I act in real life. Smile But I have a job, girlfriend, friends/social life, normal upbringing, regular non-gaming hobbies, own my own home, etc.

I guess you have to take online gaming behavior with a grain of salt. It may or may not be an indication of the person IRL. I wouldn't assume that because a pirate killed me that he's some virginal fat kid who never leaves his parent's basement (although, I tend to assume this about everyone in Eve Laughing). And I wouldn't assume some 'normal' player is normal either, he could be the virginal fat kid. Nice does not mean normal. Nice is often a subsistute for a personality. Let's face it, it's easy to be nice, and people think it's a good way to make friends or at least be accepted. But in reality, I'd rather be friends with an interesting, vulgar ******* than a boring loser who is nice. People who are both nice and interesting are the true gems in the world. You won't meet many.

Ceramik
Bannable Offense.
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:40:00 - [27]
 

Dunno. I'm probably a much bigger jack*ss in real life than I am in the game. I generally like to help people out in-game, but IRL I tend to avoid people and get annoyed very easily by people who don't understand things, or just straight up ignore people.

I guess my previous post wasn't well thought out, people really do change for the game environment. But at the same time, you will have to deal with people like that IRL, so you still have to get used to it or find a way to one-up them. Hiding behind the whole "I'm roleplaying" thing is BS, but that doesn't change the fact that there will always be folks like that, wherever you go.

Dee Ellis
Posted - 2006.11.16 01:58:00 - [28]
 

Online jerks are mostly venting what they wish they could've done to people IRL..
That or they're actual jerks..

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2006.11.16 04:28:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Commander Buttnugget
I hate griefers & PK'ers. and will ***** about them until they no longer exist in EVE. (which means until the servers die...)
Why oh why are you playing this game?

Ysolde Xen
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.16 12:38:00 - [30]
 

Weird duplicity. I was just reading a thread like this on another forum for a different game...

I agree with Taihira's summation that some people are just roleplaying. The PMs saying (that was all IC btw, cheers for the great scene/fight/whatever) help to refelct this. I know I've played characters that are utter bastages to other characters (but I never make RL flames of it) and I also have characters that are lovely as pie. If I'm interacting with someone who doesn't seem to be RPing it then even if I'm playing a jerk I'll back off on the comments as I'm not here to actually offend players.

Doesn't mean that OOC I, or anyone else who is truly PRing, am a jerk.

I think the trouble lies more when people aren't RPing and simply use it as a way of venting anger they couldn't otherwise. Or if they are, quite simply, total sods as people. But the tricky part is telling the difference.

I don't agree with your sweeping generalisations I'm afraid as I've always been an RPer (out of EVE too) and have tended to see more of the total disconnection between in-game character and out-of-game player.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only