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Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.11 23:57:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Tsar Maul on 12/11/2006 01:22:34
At the moment, any ship with a drone bay smaller than 125m3 can't have it's sized increased to carry more spares due to it also allowing it to launch more/bigger drones and increase the DPS it can dish out. What we need is a solution that allows ships to have large drone bays to keep spares, but also allows it to keep the DPS potential from drones under control.

I present to you: Drone Control Points

What?

Basically, each drone is awarded one control point for every 5m3 it takes up. That means light drones use 1 point, medium drones use 2 points and large drones use 5 points. We then work out the maximum amount of drone control points a ship has by giving it one point for every 5m3 in its drone bay. For example, the Rupture has a 30m3 drone bay, so it has 6 drone control points. Any ship with a drone bay larger than 125m3 (5 heavy drones) has it's drone control points capped at 25. We can then triple or quadruple every ship's drone bay without increasing the DPS.

How?

Whenever you tell the ship to launch a drone, it checks to see if it has the drone control points free to do so. Using the Rupture, it will have 6 drone control points but with a tripled drone bay it can hold 9 medium drones (and launch 5). Obviously we don't want it launching 5 medium drones as the ship was balanced with only 3. So, every time a drone is launched we subtract it's points value away from the ship's value. If the ship's value ends up being a negative number then the drone is unable to launch. Example:

1. Free Points: 6

2. Launch Hammerhead II (2 points)

3. Free Points: 4

4. Launch Hammerhead II (2 points)

5. Free Points: 2

6. Launch Hammerhead II (2 points)

7. Free Points: 0

8. Attempt to launch Hammerhead II and fail, as Free Points is 0.

Obviously the checks are still made to make sure it's not launching more than 5 drones (or however many the pilot's SP will allow).

Why?

It allows ships to carry spare drones around without giving them extra DPS. On most ships when you warp out without collecting your drones (say fleeing from a PVP situation that went a bit wrong) you will be unable to use any drones until you find a station that is selling them and buy some more. Also, you can't transfer drones from your cargohold to the drone bay unless at a POS or Carrier (and most ships have their cargohold packed with ammo and capchargers).

This method solves the problem of carrying spare drones in a simple and elegant mannar.

When?

That, is down to our dear Devs (last sighted "singing" at the Fanfest Laughing). I realise that posting this when they are all currently ****ed out of their heads probably isn't the best idea in the world, but hopefully some will be sober by Monday to read it.

Who?

Who can you give your ISK to for suggesting this wonderful idea? Just sent it to this character and I'll make sure it's passed on to the right person Wink

But...

But of course, you can't make everyone happy. Instead of increasing the drone bays size of all ships, increase it on the ships that need the extra versatility and keep other drone bays the same size (I don't personally like that idea, but it's popular enough to warrent an addition). Such ships like:

Ishkur
Curse
Pilgrim
Arbitrator
Vexor
Gal T2 BC

For the other ships, you could add rigs that add extra m3 to the drone bay instead (so they have to use a rigslot to gain the versatility).

But of course, I still prefer drone control points + big drone bays for all YARRRR!!

Bazman
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:01:00 - [2]
 

I love it. Thats all you need to know.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:02:00 - [3]
 

/signed

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:04:00 - [4]
 

some way to replenish drones in space would be really nice.
as it is its difficult if one is in a ship that uses drones for fighting and is far from home base or any station.

XGS Crimson
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:04:00 - [5]
 

i dont really understand but /signed

Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: XGS Crimson
i dont really understand but /signed


It lets you carry around spare drones by giving all ships much bigger drone bays, but prevents them from getting more DPS from drones than they do now.

XGS Crimson
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:07:00 - [7]
 

oooo love it then /signed /signed

Elve Sorrow
Amarr
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:07:00 - [8]
 

This is, ofcourse, a brilliant idea.

It'll never make it ingame.

Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:10:00 - [9]
 

Dear god /signed Shocked

Marine Raider
Minmatar
Dark Prophecy Inc.
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:13:00 - [10]
 

/Signed

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:14:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Aramendel on 12/11/2006 00:22:22
The idea generally is good. But I see one problem there:

Utility drones.

The oversized dronebay of some drone specced ships (basically ishtar, eos dominix) does not only allow them to carry spares - it also allows them to carry more job specific drones. More flexibility basically.

Take a mega or geddon. They can carry with them 5 ogres. But if they do this they won't be able to carry 5 lights in case they run into frigs. Or ECM drones. Or web drones. Or tracking disuptor drones. Or damper drones. Or energy neut drones. Depending on the situation the type of drones you carry can easily decide between win & loss.

The drone damage bonus is only part of the bonus of the droneships, the increased flexibility of being able to carry different types of drone is another.

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:14:00 - [12]
 

I agree completely.

It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.

Currently, smaller drone ships put out a simply obscene damage. Ishtars should not be doing the same damage as a dominix.

This idea gets my approval.

Azerrad InExile
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:18:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Ishtars should not be doing the same damage as a dominix.


They don't.

Deadeye Dave
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:18:00 - [14]
 

I agree to be honest earlier I was flying around in my Curse thinking it would be nice to get more spare drones without increasing DPS to overpower the ship.


Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:19:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Ishtars should not be doing the same damage as a dominix.


While the Ishtars dps is quite high (cerberus does equal dps with the new heavy assaults, though) if it could only use meds there would be no real reason to use it over an Vexor.

Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:24:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tsar Maul on 12/11/2006 00:28:51
Discuss Ishtar vs Dominix in another thread Laughing

As for utility drones, personally I think it would be good to have the choice of carrying both combat and utility drones to let you switch depending on the circumstances. It would allow ships to be more flexable and unpredictable without completely breaking game balance.

Originally by: Tasty Burger
It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.


My suggestion doesn't change drone DPS at all.

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:28:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Elve Sorrow
This is, ofcourse, a brilliant idea.

It'll never make it ingame.

Sad, but true.

Signed anyway, for what its worth.

hattifnatt
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:29:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: hattifnatt on 12/11/2006 00:32:19
Missread OP

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:32:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: hattifnatt
Its a decent idea but it has flaws. For example if a domi has 25points and in your example a medium drone takes 2p so it can launch 12medium drones.

12 hammerhead IIs + drone dmg bonus and good skills = 559,86DPS

However changing the it to 3points per medium drones. You can now launch 8 medium drones and get 373DPS* and that is still way to high compared to heavy drones.

Another problem with this is that ships with large dronebays would be able to launch hordes of light drones, and that would create lag. (which was why the drones in space was limited to 5.)

*with good skills


READ THE POST. Rolling Eyes

The drone launch number would stay the same.

Justice Bringer
Minmatar
T.R.I.A.D
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:33:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
I agree completely.

It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.

Currently, smaller drone ships put out a simply obscene damage. Ishtars should not be doing the same damage as a dominix.

This idea gets my approval.


That of course is your own opinion, but I don't agree with your reasoning. Next you'll be suggesting that the Deimos shouldn't have 2 damage bonuses which effectively mean it's a BS killer (which is what it is meant for) or that any of the other HAS ships shouldn't have their second bonus that they have.

Just remeber that an Ishtar or an Ishkur are still only cruisers and frigs albeit with higher resistances, but they will pop just like any other ship if you know what to do, and if you don't know what to do, you'll complain and say they're too powerful....Rolling Eyes

Learn how my friend, but if you cannot, then just buy one. Wink

Justice Cool(currently flying in my Ishtar with 27 drones in the bay)

JustBlaze
Gallente
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:33:00 - [21]
 

damn straight /signed

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:34:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: keepiru on 12/11/2006 00:34:05
i like cake.

this idea = cake.

therefore, i like it.

make it happen.

Old Geeza
The Retirement Home
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: keepiru
Edited by: keepiru on 12/11/2006 00:34:05
i like cake.

this idea = cake.

therefore, i like it.

make it happen.


That's not what you originally had Laughing

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:35:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Tsar Maul


Originally by: Tasty Burger
It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.


My suggestion doesn't change drone DPS at all.


Well, I personally think that this change SHOULD help stop the unfairness of 4 mediums on an ishkur, for example. I don't think cruisers should have enough to fit 5 heavy drones. Perhaps the ishtar could get enough for 3 heavies and 2 mediums, though.

Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:38:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: Tsar Maul


Originally by: Tasty Burger
It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.


My suggestion doesn't change drone DPS at all.


Well, I personally think that this change SHOULD help stop the unfairness of 4 mediums on an ishkur, for example. I don't think cruisers should have enough to fit 5 heavy drones. Perhaps the ishtar could get enough for 3 heavies and 2 mediums, though.


Ah I see what you mean now :). I agree - it could be used to balance certain ships (although I don't see anything wrong with the Ishtar as it has F/A turret DPS, but the Ishkur could do with nerf batting).

Anyway, like I said, that is something to be brought up if the changes get in. Ideally, this thread should be about comments/critiques of the system itself.

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:39:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Justice Bringer
Originally by: Tasty Burger
I agree completely.

It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.

Currently, smaller drone ships put out a simply obscene damage. Ishtars should not be doing the same damage as a dominix.

This idea gets my approval.


That of course is your own opinion, but I don't agree with your reasoning. Next you'll be suggesting that the Deimos shouldn't have 2 damage bonuses which effectively mean it's a BS killer (which is what it is meant for) or that any of the other HAS ships shouldn't have their second bonus that they have.



Not really, because the ishtar does deimos-like damage without using any cap or fitting and with higher range. Thats what I have an issue with. Its simply better than a deimos.

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:39:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
I don't think cruisers should have enough to fit 5 heavy drones. Perhaps the ishtar could get enough for 3 heavies and 2 mediums, though.


Why not? Its the only way a HAC/BC can do as much damage as its peers while remaining a true droneship.

Justice Bringer
Minmatar
T.R.I.A.D
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:40:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: Tsar Maul


Originally by: Tasty Burger
It lets drone boats have spares, while also stopping the ridiculous damage that ishkurs/ishtars put out. Frigates should only be able to use smalls, cruisers mediums, in my opinion.


My suggestion doesn't change drone DPS at all.


Well, I personally think that this change SHOULD help stop the unfairness of 4 mediums on an ishkur, for example. I don't think cruisers should have enough to fit 5 heavy drones. Perhaps the ishtar could get enough for 3 heavies and 2 mediums, though.


I'm sure you'll find that an Ishkur doesn't put out as much damage as an Enyo, even if it does field 4 med drones.

And in any respect, most decent drone pilots will not fill their drone bay with drones that will not leave room for any spare, precisely what the op is trying to suggest ships should have.

If you find yourself up against an Ishkur with 4 med drones kill them nad his dps is greatly diminished. Rolling Eyes

Justice Cool

keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:41:00 - [29]
 

Anyway, once this is implemented, its easy enough to give the Ish/Myrm enough CP for 4 heavyes with a 300m3 drone bay, problem solved tbh.

Tsar Maul
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:42:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Tsar Maul on 12/11/2006 00:42:57
Originally by: keepiru
Anyway, once this is implemented, its easy enough to give the Ish/Myrm enough CP for 4 heavyes with a 300m3 drone bay, problem solved tbh.


To be honest, it is that ship that got me thinking about this idea - how can you limit the DPS but still give it room for spares? It then seemed logical to extend the idea to all ships.


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