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blankseplocked Adv. Learning 3 -> 4 : Worth it?
 
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Cheese999
Minmatar
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
Posted - 2006.11.11 07:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Cheese999 on 11/11/2006 10:01:59
I am a new player (2 mil SP main FTW), and training learning is the most boring pointless thing in the world to me.

I only trained the big 4 to lvl 3 because it would only "cost" 5 days out of a 90 day run. My main query is how long will it take to pay off doing advanced learnings to 4, and Learning itself to 5?

[Edit]
Stupid typo, Im NEVER gonna do adv learning to 5, but is going to 4 worth it?

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2006.11.11 08:54:00 - [2]
 

Depends on how you define payoff and how long you play. Say you train adv 4 or 5 now and spend the next 6 months training all the new skills due out next month then payoff is pretty much right away.

If you don’t plan on learning the new skills and just getting better at what you have then payoff is much longer.

I tend to count learning as a write-off time to learn new skills faster. The time for learning skills to be worth is it not something someone can answer with math alone. It all depends on what skills your going to train.

Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Timetravel Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
Posted - 2006.11.11 09:14:00 - [3]
 

I dont think it is worth it... i know it is worth it...

i learn as of right now a maximum of 21.x m sp a year.

more when I max out from 4 - 5 and add +4 imps

Cheese999
Minmatar
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
Posted - 2006.11.11 10:05:00 - [4]
 

By worth it I mean pay off (ie, I gain training time (including the time taken to train to lvl 4) vs just getting 1337 skills as a pilot) within a reasonable period of time (ie, not 12 months down the road)

Just how long am I looking at before I start gaining time from doing these damm learning skills?

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2006.11.11 10:14:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 11/11/2006 10:18:09
”Just how long am I looking at before I start gaining time from doing these damm learning skills?”
As I said it depends on the skills you train. If you start training the new skills coming out next month you gain time right from day 1 when they come out as you cannot train them now instead of adv4. Same for any skills you cannot afford right now. It’s often better to get adv 4 or 5 while earning isk to buy the expensive skills. Then you train those skills faster and gain time.

There are to many variables to tell you the precise time.
In short if you get the new skills next month and get adv4 before then payoff is less then 30days. If you dont get the new skills then its a lot longer for payoff.

The Fates
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.11 18:26:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: The Fates on 17/03/2007 03:33:28
Post Deleted.

Futuri
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.11 22:03:00 - [7]
 

If you're training skills that require perc/int/mem/will about evenly, then the payoff time for advanced learning to 4 for those attributes is ~4-6 months.

Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Black Legion.
Posted - 2006.11.11 22:59:00 - [8]
 

a) With lvl 4 in learning you get from +1 in both the primary and secondary attribute for a skill 2332.8 more SPs/day.
b) Training all but the charisma advanced learning from 3->4 takes 447060 SP.

Add a) and b) together at you get 191.6 days or 6.3 months (7.9 months with char).

(Your attributes do not matter there because the advanced learning skills do not need all mem/int but need all attributes equally much, so the training time will be identical for everyone, no matter what his/her attributes are (thats assuming adv. char is trained, too, the the difference without it won't be high). And what you train after the learning skills does not matter either, because you always get these 2332.8 SPs/day, no matter if you train skills where you have 30 or 10 in both attribute.)

Learning 4->5 gives you an 1.85% SP growth boost. In other words, you need to train 100% / 1.85% -> 54 times the time you took you for Learning 4->5 to get even there. If that took 4 days thats 216 days (7.1 months), if that took 7 days it's 378 days (12.4 months)

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.11.11 23:36:00 - [9]
 

Learning 5 is what you get after you get Adv Mem 4 and Adv Int 4. Then you get the other learning skills.

Advanced 5 is just not worth it unless you are sure to be playing for at least 2 years (it actually takes longer, but you won't have lost too much if you play at least 2 years).

Pottsey likes to argue that if a new skill comes out then training those advanced skills instantly pay off. That isn't true. Sure, they give you added benefit over anyone else... but honestly, for 99% of the players it won't make a difference if you train a new skill 2% faster than other people will it?

If you want to know how much any learning stat skill helps, just take the stat you're curious about and multiply by 2. For example, if you have 20 int then 20*2 = 40. So how long does that take to payoff? Multiply the time it takes to train that 1 point of Int by 40. That's approximately how long it will take you to make it up.

Cheese999
Minmatar
Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp
Posted - 2006.11.12 00:05:00 - [10]
 

Excelent, thanks everyone. I didn't really like Potseys logic at all. Having maths is much nicer.

6 months isn't to bad to get to break even. I'll probably do them at the end of this training run.

Thanks for all the info.

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2006.11.12 09:28:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Pottsey on 12/11/2006 09:29:20
“but honestly, for 99% of the players it won't make a difference if you train a new skill 2% faster than other people will it?”
Of course not for 1 single skill. But if a new profession comes out with a group of skills then it makes a large difference if you spend 6 months to a year training new skills.

You pull ahead form the first skill and keep pulling ahead more and more until 1 year later you might be up to full month ish ahead. If you end up a month ahead due to adv5 how can it not have paid its self back? But sure it doesn’t apply to everyone just people who move into new profession orget a lot of new skills.

A good example are capital ships pilots you might have no intention of learning to be one then find out you need to spend a year training for capital ships. In which case adv5 is better then learning a skill that has no effect on capital ships.




“I didn't really like Potseys logic at all. Having maths is much nicer.”
It might be nicer put it’s very misleading. The best option is to use both my logic with math. The math alone does not give you the true value of learning skills.

The main idea behind payoff is you could train the skill instead of getting adv5. If you train one skill that you could not train instead of adv5 then your payoff math is wrong. Then again if you don’t its mostly correct.

Hung Well
Posted - 2006.11.12 12:02:00 - [12]
 

Personally I don't think it's worth training to the 4th level. The payback is way too slow.

Hung

Dahak2150
Arm of Orion
Posted - 2006.11.13 03:06:00 - [13]
 

That depends entirely on your attributes and what your goal is.

In my quest for an Absolution + T2 everything, it was a few days faster for me to train Clarity IV, and I already have really high perception and a +3 implant, lessening the effects of any further level.

Try EVEmon. Enter your plan and the program will show you how far to take your learning skills before you get negative returns.


 

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