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blankseplocked Effects of high WILL/PER examined a bit.
 
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Yoggie
Posted - 2006.11.08 06:02:00 - [1]
 

I was wondering if high WILL / PER at the start really matters that much for the long run as a fighter.

So, I made two characters, one with high WILL / PER and one with all about the same stats.

Then I made a research path with Titan (Aman Avatar, but I guess it doesn't matter), Heavy attack Drones and Large Laser.

I noticed that the time to reach these skills doesn't change that much depending on the startong attributes : instead of 404 days with a balanced character, it was 362 days with the PER/WILL setup.

Is that the same feeling that others have too ?

Estel Arador
Posted - 2006.11.08 07:08:00 - [2]
 

Have you also included fitting and support skills such as engineering and electronics?


I'm of the opinion that balances attributes are the best way to go unless you know exactly what you'll be doing before you're creating your character, make a skillplan based on that and then calculate your optimal attributes.

Shugo Kazuma
Posted - 2006.11.08 07:22:00 - [3]
 

I think it works out that if you plan on learning all skills which aren't industrial/manufacturing, haveing a high per/int character sees more overall benefits because of all the side skills you end up having to learn to be an effective combat pilot.

Eilie
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.11.08 07:28:00 - [4]
 

The best stats are PER/INT not PER/WILL. Ship and gun skills arn't everything. You need lots of support skills too.

Guile D'Verde
Caldari
The Crescent Order
Posted - 2006.11.08 12:16:00 - [5]
 

Perhaps you should consider a more realistic training goal than a titan?

Futuri
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.08 16:07:00 - [6]
 

404-362 = 42 days.. thats a huge difference

Rodge
Posted - 2006.11.08 23:14:00 - [7]
 

As mentioned earlier, INT is more important than WILL in the long run for a fighter. PERC, of course, is most important.

Mothmar Friedsquid
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.09 00:34:00 - [8]
 

42 days isn't a huge difference at all. It's 10% or so.

Difference for me would have been something like 15%, but that's still just fine. No biggie at all, really. There will be other skills, and waiting an extra few days isn't the end of the world.

Jerumei Saleman
Posted - 2006.11.09 02:27:00 - [9]
 

Hi,

Did you take into account the fact that training the learning skills faster requires higher memory and then intelligence so if you wanted to really maximize your training time starting the opposite to you character (high memory and itel) is more important in the long run.

see you even train the willpower and perception modifiers faster with higher memory and itelligence.

Just a thought

Jerumei Saleman

Yoggie
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:50:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jerumei Saleman
Hi,
Did you take into account the fact that training the learning skills faster requires higher memory and then intelligence so if you wanted to really maximize your training time starting the opposite to you character (high memory and itel) is more important in the long run.


Yes, the prgram determines what's the fastest way to do them...

And to answer the other question : no, I didn't take all the support skills into account, but would they change THAT much ? I mean, you can train those in a week or three, no ? Won't make a big difference, IMHO.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2006.11.09 17:56:00 - [11]
 

Setting your goals a little high there aren't you?

How do you plan to collect aprrox 200billion isk to pay for that giant butt plug every one is so fond of Laughing

Guile D'Verde
Caldari
The Crescent Order
Posted - 2006.11.10 16:35:00 - [12]
 

Quote:
I mean, you can train those in a week or three, no ?

No.

Shadarle
Posted - 2006.11.11 23:25:00 - [13]
 

So you want to train the skills for a titan... and expect a few weeks of training for secondary skills is all you'll need eh?

Considering 1 player in the entire game even flies a titan... why are you even bothering to calc it for one? Calc'ing for a dreadnaught is a bit silly even... but at least thats attainable. Maybe even a carrier.

The Fates
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.12 06:24:00 - [14]
 

You're right, its not a big difference. Once you take into account the other skills you need to train to be effective in a given ship, you'll find out having a high perception and willpower is not an "iwin" button of any kind.

That said it all depends on exactly what you want to train and once you figure that out, min/maxing your stats to take advantage of it, and over the course of your training never changing your mind.

Fat chance, I hear you say? :)

There's a lot to be said for balancing your attributes. But, if you carefully plan what you're training, and stick to it, you could come out ahead of the balanced character.

We all start with 39 attribute points, and there are 5 attributes, leading to 20 different possible attribute pairs. Some of these are used far more than others... and some are not used at all. Yet. In the very, very long run, depending on your level of learning training we all average out the same.

The difference is in what attributes you picked and what you decided to train.

If you want a fighter character, my advice would be Per > Int > Mem > Will > Cha ... you could probably switch memory and willpower and come out just as good in the long run. Personally I'd prefer getting through learning and drones a little faster than having a higher Per/Will pair, but all the t2 ship skills are high rank and willpower primary, so theres a good reason to put willpower before memory.

Intelligence is often overlooked... and the amount of skills and ranks to train to be a good fighter is higher than most people think.

Bottom line if you are min/maxing your attributes you better know what you're doing, if you're not 100% sure about your training balance your attributes.

Just as a side note if you take your two highest attributes as perception and intelligence, the game gets revenge on you: there are no skills that use perception as primary and intelligence as secondary, and only a very few that use Int/Per.

This might help you in your quest:

Pri/Sec

Int/Per 10
Int/Cha 0
Int/Will 0
Int/Mem 92
Per/Int 0
Per/Cha 0
Per/Will 102
Per/Mem 1
Cha/Int 13
Cha/Per 1
Cha/Will 9
Cha/Mem 8
Will/Int 1
Will/Per 6
Will/Cha 7
Will/Mem 0
Mem/Int 38
Mem/Per 18
Mem/Cha 8
Mem/Will 0

The pairs used in Eve, might be off by a skill or two but its very very close. Does not include Kali.

My 2 Isk.

Protunia
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.14 20:53:00 - [15]
 

My question is did you make the high will/perc train learning 5?? adv learnings 5?? if so I think you slowed him down.

Protunia
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.14 21:13:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Protunia on 14/11/2006 21:28:57

Pri/Sec

Int/Per 10
Int/Cha 0
Int/Will 0
Int/Mem 92
Per/Int 0
Per/Cha 0
Per/Will 102
Per/Mem 1
Cha/Int 13
Cha/Per 1
Cha/Will 9
Cha/Mem 8
Will/Int 1
Will/Per 6
Will/Cha 7
Will/Mem 0
Mem/Int 38
Mem/Per 18
Mem/Cha 8
Mem/Will 0

Of all of these which ones are most used later by a fighter pilot?? which ones require the highest rank and most time to gain the skills?

Its fine to say we have all these sets of attributes and these are the number of skills that use them, but which skills take the most time to train as a fighter pilot?

out of the top two perc/will 102 and Int/Mem 92 how many in each section are really used for a fighter pilot?

I would say Far more in the Perc/Will catagory will be used than the Int/Mem.

Also looking at the Memory primary skills you have basically drones and learning. whats the highest rank skill in those two??

Primary

Perc 103 Int 102 Mem 64 Cha 31 Will 14

Secondary

Will 111 Mem 111 Int 52 Per 35 Cha 15

added them up as far as primary/secondary skills and the atts required.

Now totals primary and secondary added together

Mem 175 Int 154 Perc 138 Will 125 Char 46

hmmm interesting..........Now if we give 2 points for a primary and one for a secondary wed have.


Int 256 Perc 241 Mem 239 Will 139 Cha 77

the really interesting thing would be to see the ranks of all these skills then use a multiplier according to the ranks and add them up ;)

Protunia
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.14 21:34:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Protunia on 15/11/2006 01:28:10


TADA!! i found something ;)


Quote:
Zoltaris
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation Posted - 2006.06.18 15:39:00 - [3] - Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited by: Zoltaris on 18/06/2006 15:41:45

Yeah, you need to take Skills ranks into consideration, i've made a list where i give 1 point for secondary attribute and 2 pts for primary attribute multiplied by each skill rank for all skills currently available ingame, and i get the following results:

Int: 954 pts
Mem: 812 pts
Per: 1327 pts
Will: 764 pts
Cha: 241 pts

Of course, skills like each race capital ships which are ranks 10, 12, 14 and 16 greatly boost perception and willpower...

But as you can see, other than Cha that is really poor and Per that is quite over the others, Int, Mem and Will are close to each others


so :)

really its:

Per: 1327 pts Int: 954 pts Mem: 812 pts Will: 764 pts Cha: 241 pts

Now for a fighter character I would say yes to Perc/Int/Will/Mem/Char

And as crazy as I am I would even go with

Perc/Char/Int/Will/Mem Shocked

which is why I started with 7Int/13Per/8Cha/7Will/4Mem Wink



Protunia
Gallente
Posted - 2006.11.14 21:56:00 - [18]
 

Just one more :)

heres an interesting thread you might want to check out.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=268488


 

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