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Hardin
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:10:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: Hardin on 07/11/2006 17:13:40
Okay I have read through the blog and all the replies and I am still confused.

I trained my Hardin account (over six months on Command Ships/Leadership skills) to fly a Damnation specifically set up to boost a gangs skills.

I also have a second account which is my active PvPer.

The entire logic behind this was that I could bring in Hardin with the fleet, go to safe and give entire gang benefit of my specialised siege warfare skills from behind the front lines. Old Hardin was never an up close and personal kinda pilot Wink

This allowed me (not being a great multitasker) to get on and enjoy the dirty action with Siobhan my PvP focused account while Hardin ate his sandwiches and watched the scanner for probes.

So what I am being told now is:

a) Hardin now needs to command either a fleet, squadron or squad in order to convey bonuses. Correct?

b) Hardin now has to be in the same grid as the action to provide his bonuses - making him a primary target. Correct?

It seems nonsensical to me that commanders who historically stay away from the frontlines to direct operations are being forced into the thick of the action.

It's like asking Napoleon to lead the line at Waterloo or Rommel to captain the first tank into action at El Alamein. It is in my mind counter-intuitive that people who have trained for command ships should be forced to get themselves killed because of that choice - especially when there was no warning that this change was in the pipeline.

c) If I understand correctly the 'fleet commanders' skills now dominate the entire fleet (if the appropriate gang command skills have been trained and squads activated). So what happens when you have two command ships in gang - one of whom has trained up on skirmish warfare and has a mind control link and the other who has specialised in siege warfare and has a mind link. Do both sets of bonuses apply across the entire fleet - or only the bonuses of the highest ranked command ship pilot (fleet commander)... I ask this as many people actually consulted each other and chose specific gang boost skills to complement each other and that seems to have been a tad of a waste.

Maybe I am being dense but I this does seem overly complicated and I am a believer in keeping things simple.

I suppose we will have to see how it plays out.




SengH
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:11:00 - [152]
 

Also theres another issue I would like to bring up. In the current state you could hide your presence relatively well in the current gang systems from spies on TS/in gang. With the new gang system, your name is broadcast to everyone in your gang showing that you are broadcasting gang mods if your fleet command.Any hostile fleet will scan you down (with the new probing system) and nail you off the bat. Will there be an option to "compartmentalize" information allowing people only to see 1 tier above their current status? and only within their squad/wing/fleet?

Jacob Majestic
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:15:00 - [153]
 

Does this mean that from a practical standpoint the "rank and file" can only have three separate sets of gang mods acting on them at any point in time?

Wing Commander -- 3 skirmish mods + mindlink
Fleet Commander -- 3 siege mods + mindlink
Squad Commander -- 3 armor mods + mindlink

Furthermore, say that a squad commander in this hypothetical fleet has trained up skirmish mods instead of armor mods. This means that his specialization is essentially worthless because there will be overlap with the wing commander, correct?

Also, I'd like to suggest a further change. Bonuses at a particular level should apply within a set context. For example, wing command bonuses should apply in a regional context, fleet command bonuses in a constellation context, and squad command bonuses in a system context. Or perhaps constellation, system, and grid, to encourage the commanders to be closer to the action. Or perhaps include a skill to widen the context (grid, system, constellation, region, anywhere).

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:17:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.

So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)

and now gang alts.


That just shows how borked and broken the SP system is. When I started playing the CCP statement was; quote: "you cannot max out a character in a month, more like 3 years". Where do we stand now? 17+ real life years under ideal circumstances (+5 implants)?

I have 3 character slots on my account, let me max out a character once every 3 years, that would still mean I'd be a subscriber for 9 years. Heck I wouldnt quit because my character would be maxed out anyway, I'm playing the game for content not to have that content locked away for tens of real life years because of a skillsystem.

Galimiy Portret
Exploration Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:18:00 - [155]
 

It all looks very interesting. Well, it is hard to tell now how the system is going to actually function. I understand that devs wanted command ships to be what they are named after i.e. commanding position. Anyway, I feel that there could be some potential problems.

I feel that coupling the commanding position with the gang boosting position is actually putting a lot of weight on one single role as compared to other squad members. Also, it makes the leader very vulnerable by forcing him to be on the frontline in an expensive commandship which does not actually give any actual LEADERSHIP bonii, but rather SUPPORT bonii. That couples the commanding role with the support role and forces them to be on the frontline. As it is right now, a clever FC will use a CovOps to stay out of harms way and still be able to command the battle. Forcing him in a command ship puts up a very, very, very big sign in pink colour saying: "Shoot me first!". I mean, killing the FC is half way to winning the battle.

Another theoretical experiment. Imagine an inty wing or a tackler wing. If you want them to have bonii you will need to have a command ship in the wing. That is kinda, umm, kinky, having an inty wing warping around with a command ship.

Well, now that we don't know how it will actually play out, these are just some thoughts. :)

...and *PLEASE* implement "Warp to 0" on TQ! :) Thanks.

Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:25:00 - [156]
 

I like the idea's and some of those features are real nice but i can't help think it's all a bit too complicated for "real world" use.

I think every eve dev needs to stop for a good few weeks and start playing the game. Alot of the recent idea's sound great in theory but EVERY dev should be playing the game and at the same time asking themselves the question "Is this fun?".

Galimiy Portret
Exploration Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:29:00 - [157]
 

Also, I think that the problem is that gang boosting, which, I believe, is a SUPPORT action is being incorrectly mixed up with commanding, which is a LEADERSHIP action. :) Just to clarify my thoughts. :)

Pick Me
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:30:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: EvilNate
zomg!! This stuff is really so fracking cool.

I have a question about the new gang system that doesn't relate to pvp at all.

Currently in pretty much any MMORPG, when a player does a mission/quest/whatever, he is able to share that mission/quest/whatever with another player. That player can the recieve a split of the LP and standings gains too.

Any chance we will see this implemented any time in the next 2837492874 years?

Nate

Absolutely NOT. This is why most other MMORPG go straight to hell.

In DAOC for example, a guy has 3 high level characters in a 'gang' with a new one he just created. So they go into a very hard place and start to fight with some very interesting macros. If a monster hit the newbee, he is instantly killed.

One macro is taking the group to a monster if there is'nt one in front of them.
One macro is reviving the newbee char each time he is killed.
Other macro make them all attack.

So each time a monster died, it's shared between the 'gang' members and thus the newbee go up in level.

The guy let the macros run when he sleep or at work and each 3 weeks, he has a nice new medium-high level character to sell for RL money (about 100$ depending on competiton).

In Eve, it's impossible to do that because of how the skills system work. But thoses that still sell character would be too happy to raise their standing that way, AND, we should'nt have people in large gang like Bob be able to get anything faster than everyone else just because they are able to form bigger gang. They already have the 'large numbers' bonus with all that come with it.

Ather Ialeas
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:32:00 - [159]
 

Edited by: Ather Ialeas on 07/11/2006 17:32:22
Hmmh, so you have to be a commander to be able to share out gangmod stuff...ok, that's enough of a reason for me not to train for Absolution/Damnation (I'm only month away from Damnation atm) since I wanted to be a supportive member of the gang, not its leader. It has been proven that my real leadership skills suck so badly that I'd end up just killing my squad no matter what sort of Jove Wtfpwnmod I'd be running on it.

Well, at least I now can divert my ISK to my other projects, like...uh...hmm.


EDIT: Wonderful, the profanity filter attacks a name that is set by CCP itself Very Happy

Sir Juri
Caldari
Gangbus
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:34:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Pick Me
Originally by: EvilNate
zomg!! This stuff is really so fracking cool.

I have a question about the new gang system that doesn't relate to pvp at all.

Currently in pretty much any MMORPG, when a player does a mission/quest/whatever, he is able to share that mission/quest/whatever with another player. That player can the recieve a split of the LP and standings gains too.

Any chance we will see this implemented any time in the next 2837492874 years?

Nate

Absolutely NOT. This is why most other MMORPG go straight to hell.

In DAOC for example, a guy has 3 high level characters in a 'gang' with a new one he just created. So they go into a very hard place and start to fight with some very interesting macros. If a monster hit the newbee, he is instantly killed.

One macro is taking the group to a monster if there is'nt one in front of them.
One macro is reviving the newbee char each time he is killed.
Other macro make them all attack.

So each time a monster died, it's shared between the 'gang' members and thus the newbee go up in level.

The guy let the macros run when he sleep or at work and each 3 weeks, he has a nice new medium-high level character to sell for RL money (about 100$ depending on competiton).

In Eve, it's impossible to do that because of how the skills system work. But thoses that still sell character would be too happy to raise their standing that way, AND, we should'nt have people in large gang like Bob be able to get anything faster than everyone else just because they are able to form bigger gang. They already have the 'large numbers' bonus with all that come with it.


Eh... whatever, I want co-op missions to, solo is sooo damn boring and missions allready is boring so having co-op would be a nice feature, perhaps only in lowsec-0.0 as I hope all missions above level 2 will be in lowsec and 0.0 anyway.

MOOstradamus
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:37:00 - [161]
 

Edited by: MOOstradamus on 07/11/2006 17:55:31

/me wonders what has happened to the Squadron Command skill on Sing ..

Not only is it unavailable to buy but its missing from my Characte Sheet too Exclamation Shocked


*EDIT: nevermind Squadron Command has been renamed to Warfare Link Specialist *

Notleh
Rage of Inferno
Burning Ambition
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:39:00 - [162]
 

TomB:

As it stands right now on Tranq there are Leadership and Squadron Command skills. Wing Command is unavailable.

On Sisi there are Leadership, Wing Commander, and Fleet Commander, but NO Squadron Command skill.

Since the Leadership skill will basically make you a Squadron Commander, will the Squadron Command skill make you a Wing Commander?

In other words, if I already have Squadron Command trained to 5, when Revelations comes out will that skill switch to Wing Commander 5 (like the Guristas Encryp Methods is changing to Caldari Encrypt Methods)?

If not, what happened to Squadron Command and what will happen to people whom have already trained it?

Pick Me
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:45:00 - [163]
 

Originally by: DrAtomic
Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.

So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)

and now gang alts.


That just shows how borked and broken the SP system is. When I started playing the CCP statement was; quote: "you cannot max out a character in a month, more like 3 years". Where do we stand now? 17+ real life years under ideal circumstances (+5 implants)?

I have 3 character slots on my account, let me max out a character once every 3 years, that would still mean I'd be a subscriber for 9 years. Heck I wouldnt quit because my character would be maxed out anyway, I'm playing the game for content not to have that content locked away for tens of real life years because of a skillsystem.

You cannot max out, it's specialization, in whatever you like so you are better than other that did'nt specialize in that. Now if you find it annoying and useless, you can change and start to train another specialization but you can always get back as you did'nt lose any old skill nor did you have to buy another character.

It's also nice to know that anyone you came across won't be a expert in all damage type, all ship type, all electronic warfare type... He will have FLAWS, just like you.

I don't see a problem in that design.

Pick Me
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:49:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Sir Juri

Eh... whatever, I want co-op missions to, solo is sooo damn boring and missions allready is boring so having co-op would be a nice feature, perhaps only in lowsec-0.0 as I hope all missions above level 2 will be in lowsec and 0.0 anyway.

Nothing prevent level 4 and 5 missions to be given to a 'group' (corp or gang) so that when they come back successfully, the isk is shared by the game mechanics. Problem is that now, players decide how they share the loot (they cannot get all the same faction mod for example, so everyone has the freedom to choose to split as they wish).

I think that's the next thing with factionnal warfare. Maybe even group with stranger to do missions where the loot will be 'fairly' distributed between the participants.

Oh and, before I forget... ...and *PLEASE* NEVER implement "Warp to 0" on TQ! :) Invalidate all BM and prevent creating new one in the same grid as gates (would annoy sniper a little). Thanks.

Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.07 17:59:00 - [165]
 

Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/11/2006 18:05:13
The fact that the overall fleet commander doesn't get any bonus's from the subcommanders is super lame. I've had guys training this stuff for months so that we could share bonus's...

And by forcing fleet commanders to have good gang skills and forcing good gang skill players to be decent fleet commanders you have taken yet another real life skill aspect out of the game. Not completely, better commanders with tons of leadership skillpoints will still be better than crappy commanders with tons of leadership skillpoints...but you could have a brilliant 2 month old player who just wouldn't be able to command the fleet properly because of lack of skills.

That is lame. CCP might as well start shipping us 20 sided dice so that we can roll to see who wins the fight. What makes eve unique is that real life skill has always meant a lot more than skillpoints in game. This reality is steadily slipping away. (scan probes anybody?, Automatic Orbit? Ner***e of anyting that moves fast?)

EDIT: I see the only reason the bonus's won't apply to the overall commander is because you're having trouble going up the tree. Stop sucking.

Shamis

Joram McRory
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:10:00 - [166]
 

Nice ideas, but the requirment for (yet more) skills f*cks it all up IMO.

There are plenty of time sinks for pvpers without every FC having to train up any more. It also ruins flexibility and takes no notice of RL - say i have a fleet or wing under my command and have to log for a bit - that's it, the whole fleet/wing is completley buggered if no one else has the skills.

Verdict

6 out of 10 - must try harder

pardux
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:16:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: pardux on 07/11/2006 18:19:38
Is the fleet command skill still rank 14 Neutral ?

And when did anyone ever have any use for the health bar thingie in a gang bigger then 5 people o_O ?
:| should just remove it and reduce lag, or make that happen when gangs get bigger then 30.

Useing the overview to call targets is useless since your faster doing that with ts and either the targets warp out after 5sec or blow up. And if i get it right if you warp out and back in you wont see the target anyway. Rolling Eyes

broadcast system will be nice for small gangs Smile, but useless for big fleets.


edit: nobody will be able to use the broadcasting system etc. until the next patch where we can detach them =|

Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:30:00 - [168]
 

Thanks TomB the changes look pretty slick actually. And with the advent of Capitals recieving tons of HP there are definate reasons why I would park on the front lines.

Is there any possibility to further increase that incentive with allowing 2-3 gang modules active on a carrier?

Br0wn 0ps
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:35:00 - [169]
 

I like everything except for the fact that the bonuses are not applied to the commanders from the higher level commanders, but since it is on the list to fix, should be okay.

Only question I have, is why the separation between gang and fleets, if the only difference is whether or not gang bonuses are applied???

marcouk2
Gallente
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:41:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Rafein
you already are a taget when running gang assist mods, cause the only ones wo can run tham are BC's. It's pretty east to pck out who is running the mods.


Unless you had the sense to have the gang mod people in an ss in the system, which the new organistion takes out, as the fc now has to be on the frontline and in a bc.
Aka insta-primary Neutral

Seppel da'FinNI
Cataclysm Enterprises
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:51:00 - [171]
 

First thing that surprised me, is this sentence, i quote "Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members." - does this actually say, that a squad commander will not receive bonuses from his fleet commander? This does not make much sense, at least to me it does not.

Now lets imagine some situations. You have a nice fleet together and divide it according to tasks. One Squad for EW with lots of Scorpions, Rooks and Lachesis' and a nice Eos with all the Information Warfare Links - nice. Another Squad, maybe two with your main BS bulk, widely known as Damagedealers. Well, lets give them hmm a Sleipnir with a Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuverings to reduce Signatur Radius. Fleet Commander sits in a ****ation or Vulture, depending on the prefered tanking - armor vs shield. So far so good. Now what is missing? Right - tacklers .. well, what could these guys use best? Hmm.. Some speed bonus, bonus to propulsion jamming would be nice, too. Ok, lets give it to them. Claymore.. now how fast is this baby going? MWD'ing up to 2km/s if you are good - how is this gonna keep up with all those interceptors rushing by at 6+km/s? How will it lead its squad members effectively, if it is not in the same place? Can we have a "transmit view" button for squad commanders? Well, this will be a problem.

And it does not stop here. Your commanders will be _very_ vulnerable to enemy fire, because they cannot cloak (warfare links dont work while cloaked) and you loose a _huge_ advantage gained by gangboni if you have your commanders not sitting in command ships. How is a commander able to see a hostile camp for himself while trapped in a bulky command ship? right, not at all. There is a good reason why a lot of FCs nowadays tend to fly covert ops ships. And why we have specialized pilots with gang skills and mindlink implants - they want to do this, but they dont want to have all the fleet control buttons just because they trained for giving gang boni.

Suggestion: Introduce a fleet support wing, which has only 4 slots (maybe even less, so people have to choose) to house battlecruisers / command ships and have these boni count for all gang members. The rest of the structure is nice, but when did some commander look after reinforcements personally? they have staff for that. and why? to be able to concentrate on what they should do - leading their troops into battle (and win).

All i was saying could be said in two sentences:
Dont make it harder for FCs. Dont overspecialize.

Thank you for your attention, have a nice day.

Seppel

Serapis Aote
Minmatar
TBC
VENOM Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 18:58:00 - [172]
 

you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.

Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:01:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Serapis Aote
you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.


He does if he wants to utilize all the new gang features.

Cadman Weyland
Irn Bru Crew
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:03:00 - [174]
 

Edited by: Cadman Weyland on 07/11/2006 19:20:02
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Jet Collins
Ok Queston?

OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever.
One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills
The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills.

In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses.

In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct?

If so this compleatly blows.

Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead.



That truely sux to be honest. So ive trained all the gang skills for nothing basically. Thanks a bunch. I dont mind being a gang leader, but i expect my hard trained bonus to boost the fleet, thats what i trained them 4. This seems over specialsation, over complication.

Not often i dislike changes in game, this one i really dont like.

Fubear
Vogon Heavy Industries
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:06:00 - [175]
 

Is there any method of delegating gang command functions without giving up the fleet command position.

There are two types of people here who essentially get screwed over:

1) People who like to command but dont have/want the gang bonus skills.

2) People who have trained into command ships with gang bonus skills who don't want to command.

I fear the changes will force gangs to be led by people with SP over people who actually have the ability to organise and command people.

EXAMPLES
I have Wing Command IV with 40 of my buddies in four squads. I have a command ship in my squad also with Wing Command IV who can give awesome gang bonuses to my fleet if they were in the WC position. I want to make them Wing Commander, but at the same time I want to remain in overall command and be able to access the wing command abilities like invites and gang warps.

---

One of the first rules in large scale fleet combat is to kill and pod the gang commander. Sometimes fleet commanders are well known to the enemy, and sometimes there are spies in gang/teamspeak. As a concequence a lot of fleet commanders like to command from covert ops or force recon ships where they can command a battle without getting popped. In this situation a FC would want a command ship in the top position for the leadershp bonuses, yet still have full access to all of the FC tools so they can actually command their fleet (assume that the FC has the relevant leadership to be FC for the fleet).

flyinhedgehog
The Hoodie Mafia
Cosa Nostra.
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:07:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: flyinhedgehog on 07/11/2006 19:13:05
:S generally rubbish tbh. No offence TomB but there are way more things that need attention in terms of fixing to start overcomplicating stuff that works pretty ok atm. You've put in all this stuff for repping and shield boosting I guess to try and make logistics useful but in the middle of a fleet fight who is going to spare attention to this new fangled system when there’s so many other things that you’ve got to pay attention to? I still think the preferable option will be to warp out and repair yourself or get repaired; in which case you might as well use gang chat. If you still use logistics in fleet fights, guess who the primary after ew and possible fcs is? and consider how fast they go down when made primary. The amount that gang bonuses apply atm isn't really a good enough incentive to waste a person/people to boost a command ship enough to stop them being taken out by focussed fire. Not more than passing anyway (i.e. a couple of bs put logistics drones on them), in which case they might as well warp out.

The system for organisation of gangs is also too complicated and constricting imo. What I liked about eve originally was the freeform way it was put together. What made good pvp gangs was the way in which they worked together and organised themselves. If people can't stay quiet on comms/listen/do what they’re told by the fc, then they deserve to get the **** kicked out of them until they figure out how to deal with a more organised foe. Imo the new system will just confuse them more. Basically what I’m saying is the whole fleet commander - squadron commander thing isn't really needed and places restrictions on how we play the game if we want gang boni.

If for example you assign a squad of tacklers and you have a squad commander in a command ship with the relevant modules to sit with the bs doing antisupport until he dies. Which will be quite quickly as because he’s doing anti-support he wont have a tank (or if he does then he’s a bit useless as anti-support). Now he’s useless in a pod/back in station. No gang bonuses, no squad commander; this isn't really a problem as they’re all going after primaries, warping out and in etc making the whole thing kind of pointless in the first place. Why not just have the gang boni apply to the whole gang but as only say 1/2 of the gang is using them it doesn't really matter.

I don't like the restrictions on numbers in each wing/squad. I want to be able to have as many as I want in each section with a total cap on the fleet. Who are you to say that we can't have more than 10 members in a squad, sry sounded a bit aggressive but you get what I mean. In small gang pvp which you are apparently trying to promote generally you have very odd numbers and everybody tends to stick together anyway making having different squads pointless but this prevents having gang boni :S.

Having a fleet split up into fire teams is complicated enough on ts, in my experience (some peoples may differ) that it isn't as good in practice as in theory. You might as well have everybody in one channel and one person calling targets for everyone (possibly in fire teams). If you implement this on comms it will again be pointless as many people would rather use something they are comfortable with and have been using since they started rather than using an overcomplicated system even if it is supported by in game mechanics. Also seeing as your apparently going to have to pay for it seems a bit mercenary tbh, as if you want to join a corp. using it you will be forced to pay?

I do like the clean up of the gang ui, I found that it took up too much space and tended to lag you out etc when used (now mine doesn't even work but never mind). And the lock target stuff could be quite useful but what happens when the fc warps out and someone else takes over? Seems like another useless feature in practice tbh. Comms seems to be much more seamless when someone else takes over and it means that anyone can

Puls4r
The Wings of Maak
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:08:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Puls4r on 07/11/2006 19:09:07
My first reply on this forum in more than 2 years of playing, because I'm really disgusted in reading this blog.
All the things about improvements of HUD, broadcastings, hierachy is really good and will improve tactical aspect of the PVP.
But, the things about how gang bonus aplly are not good. Hardin and some others have underlined most of the drawbacks of this sytem so I won't say it again, I will just take my case in exemple :
I have spent a lot of time in training for cmd ships and gang mods so I want to use these SP to help my gangmates and then I have to be a commander. The problem is that I'm not a good FC. So if I want to make my modules useful, I'll be the commander of the squad anyway but someone else will be the real leader on TeamSpeak. That means that the broadcast things for example will become useless in that case... Not much interesting then...

Sir Juri
Caldari
Gangbus
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:14:00 - [178]
 

What about small corps and gangs? or corps/gangs without vets with other priorities for the first 12 months of gaming when it comes to training? I cant bother training for FC, most prolly wont unless they got atleast 1 year of SP accumilated. So every corp/gang will have to have a tech2BC pilot with gang mods to enjoy this or? I mean, if one dont have a tech2BC pilot with gang mods then one might asswell use the old system with no gang bonuses anyway and look forward to this when one has an active fleet of over 50ppl at one's disposal with several of these pilots trained for command sitting in those ships. Even then im not to excited about this anymore.

It all reminds me of corp management skills, I guess gang alts will be created just for this. And I may be completly wrong here now with everything I said in this post but if I am plz make it more clear, cause reading more and more and also thinking more about the whole thing, the new gang system is too complicated, difficult, skill intense and somewhat pointless.

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:17:00 - [179]
 

Basicly gang bonus modules just got nerfed, and so did carriers/motherships that used gang bonus mods. Now, *gasp*, you actualy have to participate in the fight to get bonuses, *gasp* that 500mil implant might actualy get popped along with the ship. Oh noes! No please CCP we need the ability to sit a deepsafes and give insane bonuses to all, or all of EVE PVP is DOOOMED! /sarcasm

Serapis Aote
Minmatar
TBC
VENOM Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 19:19:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Originally by: Serapis Aote
you all know your actual FC doesnt need to be in the command slot to still lead.


He does if he wants to utilize all the new gang features.

which ones...
clicking targets to show up on overview...still probably faster and easier to just call it over vent.

Inviteing people to gang and assigning. I would think that if the actual FC told the placeholder guy to do it, he would.

I look at this structure more as a gang bonus distribution mechanic then a RL leadership mechanic to be honest.

You can plop anyone with the skills in the FC slot, and not much will change IMO. I could be wrong though.


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