open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked Bloggers #41, TomB's new epic, Gangs of New Eden
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (15)

Author Topic

flakeonium
Amarr
Infinitus Odium
Posted - 2006.11.07 14:58:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: TomB
so that players with no mic would start feeling left out in the cold.

Please implement keyboard control for ships because players with no MOUSE start feeling left out in the cold...

Or is there only one person in island that has a microphone blueprint? Razz

But anyway, good and long needed stuff in kali.

Mr Ninjaface
Minmatar
Shurekin INC
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:10:00 - [92]
 

I think you just made the gang system crappier tomb.

The way bonuses are getting applied is stupid.

KISS (keep it simple stupid) Rule applies here.

You seem to have addressed what people where asking for kind of. Give the ability to assign roles in a gang. EX other people can gang warp other people can gang invite. Then you gimped it So now if a squad command warps his squad the FC gets left out and has to warp on his own etc. No reason to be the FC it seems like you need a **** load of skills and then you dont get and gang bonuses.

Most people wanted this. Form gang everyone gets bonuses from the command ships and the FC can assign limited roles to other players with in the gang to gang warp and gang invite so he can focus more on strategy and tactics.

The broad cast stuff thats all fine if it actually works.

All the wings and squad crap is just useless Cool

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:11:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Adam Reed
Hang about...

"gang bonuses of any kind (skills, modules) have been disabled completely"

...now, I know this thread seems to be all about combat, but I just want to check - this doesn't mean non-combat gang bonuses have been scrapped as well does it? The extra 10% yield for a gang with Mining Foreman level 5 is what I'm principally thinking of.


Ummm, I'd think that's exactly what it means. "...of any kind (skills, modules)...". I think it's pretty clear.

Otoh, it's trivial to train Leadership (rank 1) to 4 or 5, and even with just 4 you have a "fleet" size of 8 -- enough for many mining ops. Push it to V, and get a few quick levels of Wing Command, and you're suddenly at 30 or so members -- and that's only about 5 days of training. Not a biggie.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:13:00 - [94]
 

Fix the Mining Foreman Mindlink Implant as well Wink
This is good news, it means that I am not training a gang alt for nothing hehe

And I better start training Fleet Commander 5 asap so that I can command my entire alliance (and ofc Sovereignty 5).

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:15:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Mr Ninjaface

All the wings and squad crap is just useless Cool


Speak for yourself. I think the fleet organization it gives you is a big bonus. I've been in too many fleets which have been total chaos due to confusing FC and poor organization. Sure, a good FC can overcome all that, but you don't always have the luxury of a good FC.

Having the game enable you to organize scout wings, sniper wings, etc in a clear fashion is a big help, especially with the style of smaller gangs we tend to use in pirate hunts and empire warfare in general.

Sha'Uri Dark
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:15:00 - [96]
 

Sounds great, now not only do the characters need the right skills to lead but the players behind them will need the skills to lead.

Quote:
Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members. A normal Squad Member how ever can receive bonuses from three possible parties: his Squad Commander, his Wing Commander or the daddy Fleet Commander himself.


If I understand this correctly a base level squad member can in theory receive 3 gang bonuses from 1) his squad leader 2) his wing leader and 3) the fleet commander provided their all fitted to boost different things.

Oh and evenly distributed stats FTW!

SonOTassadar
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:22:00 - [97]
 

Did anyone think "Battlefield 2" when he talked about broadcasts? Very Happy

Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:25:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Jet Collins
Ok Queston?
OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever.
One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills
The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills.

In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses.

In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct?


Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead.


Hang on a second, this also implies that the leader does not get the bonus from the links it is running on its own ship, only the squad member does? This contradicts what the blog says, namely:

Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members.

If this is correct then what you are saying is that "Any and all fleet/wing/squad commanders do not receive gang/link bonuses under any circumstances" ?

I think that's a very poor decision considering the investment ppl have made in these skills (gang links), [not to mention the shield/armor resist ones are are stack nerfed to the point of uselessness].

At least allow the commanders to benefit from each others (and their own) links.

All the other changes look good though.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:26:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Sha'Uri Dark

Oh and evenly distributed stats FTW!


Quite. I'm staring at my "Charisma 20" with much love atm. Twisted Evil

I expect the whinefest from the Charisma 3 brigade will be quite entertaining, once they figure things out.

Mr Ninjaface
Minmatar
Shurekin INC
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:27:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: Mr Ninjaface

All the wings and squad crap is just useless Cool


Speak for yourself. I think the fleet organization it gives you is a big bonus. I've been in too many fleets which have been total chaos due to confusing FC and poor organization. Sure, a good FC can overcome all that, but you don't always have the luxury of a good FC.

Having the game enable you to organize scout wings, sniper wings, etc in a clear fashion is a big help, especially with the style of smaller gangs we tend to use in pirate hunts and empire warfare in general.



This wont do crap for small gangs you might have 15 people or something so you have got 10 in squad 1, 1 fc 1 wing commander than you got 2 guys in squad 2 who dont get bonues from the guy in squad 1 because they got the short stick.

Gang bonuses should affect the entire gang other wise you have to call them limited hierarchical bonuses of crap .

Daniel Jackson
Caldari
Planet Watchers
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:28:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: SonOTassadar
Did anyone think "Battlefield 2" when he talked about broadcasts? Very Happy
lol i was just about to say that, LOL yes yes it does, o speaken of bf2 BF2142 is also way cool, hehe

FireFoxx80
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:28:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 07/11/2006 15:28:27
Actually...

If gangs are getting an overhaul, does that mean we'll see more command and logistics related ships?

It'd be nice also, with this concept that combat will be longer and ammo will begin to run out, if blockade runners played more of a part - eg with industrials having to resupply ammo for longer engagements.

I see a T2 BS Flagship on the horizon...


(though I just fear that people will run around in 5-man gangs, and not bother with fleet command at all)

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:29:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss

At least allow the commanders to benefit from each others (and their own) links.

All the other changes look good though.


Agreed. Commanders should definately benefit from the skills of other commanders. It makes ingame sense (they are working together, aren't they), and makes ooc sense (these people put a lot of effort and sp into their command skills, they need to get at least as much benefit from them as their "subordinates" do).

Otherwise the job of a FC (or squad/wing lead) doesn't look very inviting. Lots of skills to train, lots of hassle, reduced personal reward.

Daniel Jackson
Caldari
Planet Watchers
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:30:00 - [104]
 

any way, what about the mining implants, will they still work as usual, when u invite people to the gang ? or do they need to be commanders as wel?

D'Jannek
Amarr
StateCorp
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:34:00 - [105]
 

I'm not really a fan of only getting gang bonuses from the commanders.

As someone pointed out, in a fleet fight the FC is going to want to be able to lock and hit the same targets as his sniper BS, which may prove very difficult in a command ship. Also command ships aren't very well suited to, say, fast-moving tackler squadrons or whatnot.

Then there's the whole "real life" leadership ability with in-game skills. It seems slightly silly to force the FC role on person A just because he's got really good gang skills, while person B is a much better commander.

I would much prefer a system where each squad gets bonuses from the highest-skilled member of that squad (like the current gang system), so that it doesn't kill gang skills totally.

This can perhaps be combined with giving an increase to gang bonus % for the squadron leader, to preserve the whole "specialising in leadership" thing you're evidently aiming for.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:37:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Smagd

Erm, brother, it's in the blog: You form a regular gang (up to 256 whatever) but zero gang assist skills and modules and apply (nerf!).



Well, maybe I'm just dense but the blog isn't totally clear, imho.

So we can still have an old-style gang, and that has a max of 50 now? But then you can apparently convert that to a "fleet", even without any skills, and now suddenly the max size is 256? Wtf? Am I seriously misunderstanding something here? Why *not* use fleets in that case over gangs, and why the arbitrary cap of 50 in gangs?

I thought the skills decided the size of the fleet (or squad/wing) you could form in the first place, but apparently they only determine who can act as leader, and you can have a "leaderless" 256-person "fleet" with no skills(?).

Originally by: Smagd

Then you skill the skills (and I somehow doubt you'll get a rank 8 skill to IV in 7 days with a low primary charisma attribute



Why would I have a low charisma? Because some twinks think minimizing your charisma is always a good idea? Well, this is where they are proved a bit wrong. Very Happy

If you created a balanced character, I think that 7 days is in the right ballpark. If not, well, blame yourself.

Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:40:00 - [107]
 

sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason

It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen.

Its overly complex- yes its cool to read about but its just to complex. Running a fleet is complex enough without having to worry about inviting people into that mess. I can see TS now

Person 1: X for gang
FC: would a squadcommander invite him.
SC1: sorry i'm full
SC2: Sorry I'm full also
SC4: Also Full
SC5: yup same
FC: SC3?
SCI: he must be afk
FC: ok will someone make a new squad?
....
FC: so no else can make a squad?
....
Person 1: nm i'm going ot play wow

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:40:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Daniel Jackson
any way, what about the mining implants, will they still work as usual, when u invite people to the gang ? or do they need to be commanders as wel?


I think it's quite obvious they need to be commanders, since the implants give boost to gang modules, and it has been stated that all gang bonuses (skill, module) are only applied from the commander(s).

But again, unless you have a silly-low Charisma, it's trivial to train Leadership V and a few levels of Wing Command, which in turn solves your problems.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 15:41:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Paddlefoot Aeon
Question for TomB:

Say me and 3 mates want to go into enemy space and... mine for scrap metal (yaarrr). We gang up like we used to, go in, and let the PEW PEW start. Same as before.

But....

If we want gang bonuses, we need to designate a Fleet Commander, Wing Commander and Squadron Commander? Or, can I just designate Friend #3 as a Squadron Commander, with all of us in his squadron, leave Wing and Fleet Commander spots empty, and have the squadron commander give us gang bonuses?

This could also be applied to mining: Have an SC, no FC or WC, and have the SC give the "Covetor Army" the mining foreman bonus?

So I guess my first question is "can we create gangs with holes in upper management, but still have a squad commander boost our skills?"

Also, for those people who mine most of the time, most of their SP are in industrial skills. If a gang needs an FC to get a bonus, isn't that nerfing most mining corps?

You only need 2 people to get gang bonuses to work, Squadron Commander with level 1 Leadership and another member in that Squadron. The holes in the upper management doesn't inactivate your Squadron.

Sir Juri
Caldari
Gangbus
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:42:00 - [110]
 

The whole thing seems to be to complicated. And with future additions to what is allready coming... Well doesn't it appear to be more of a headache then a great feature? im trying to imagine a fleet battle small or big with this system with all the action going on with having an FC/wing/squad and...NeutralConfusedugh

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 15:47:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Jet Collins
Ok Queston?
OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever.
One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills
The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills.

In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses.

In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct?


Yup, decide if you want the one with the siege or skirmish to lead.


Hang on a second, this also implies that the leader does not get the bonus from the links it is running on its own ship, only the squad member does? This contradicts what the blog says, namely:

Commanders can only give gang bonuses and receive their own bonuses but can not receive bonuses from other commanders or normal members.

If this is correct then what you are saying is that "Any and all fleet/wing/squad commanders do not receive gang/link bonuses under any circumstances" ?

I think that's a very poor decision considering the investment ppl have made in these skills (gang links), [not to mention the shield/armor resist ones are are stack nerfed to the point of uselessness].

At least allow the commanders to benefit from each others (and their own) links.

All the other changes look good though.


Commanders can give bonuses, commanders receive the bonuses they give.

They do not get bonuses from other commanders, i.e. Squad Commander does not receive bonuses from the Wing or Fleet Commander.

The ONLY reason for this is a technical issue, it's on our list for fixes.

This is how it is currently on the Test Server (SiSi).

Mr Ninjaface
Minmatar
Shurekin INC
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:48:00 - [112]
 

TomB you added all the board cast stuff etc (i need cap armor/shield) The current targeting system makes cap transfers sheild transfers hard during battle if you have say a cap transfer on your apoc but you also have 7 turrets. You then have to lock you friend and cap transfer him then in the heat of the battle remember not to start shooting the crap out of him because hes locked. Can we have a sperate locking system for gang mates on that you cant activate hostile modules on unless you specify that you want to do so or something.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 15:49:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Mr Ninjaface
Gang bonuses should affect the entire gang other wise you have to call them limited hierarchical bonuses of crap .

No.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:50:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Darpz
sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason

It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen.



That's a valid complaint. I pretyt much like the new system because it fits the style of battles that we have -- but that's mostly smaller-scale Empire warfare and antipirate fights, and small and medium range.

For 0.0. fleet/sniper warfare, I guess it's a valid complaint that there are atm no suitable "command ships" for fleet commanders.

Of course, you could try having the FC in whatever ship he/she wants, and having the wing commanders in command ships. You don't *need* to have the FC give all the bonuses for everyone, you can share out that stuff -- which is also a good idea because not flying a command ship means the FC isn't an automatic primary Very Happy

But yeah, I can see some of the problems. I have zero-to-no experience with long-range 0.0 fleet warfare, we do most of our fighting in lowsec Empire.

If this change goes through as planned, there is clearly a need for a fleet command ship (one that has enough targeting range for fleet ops, at least, and can run command modules). Of course, that would become an automatic primary, but... win some, lose some Very Happy

LC Sulla
Caldari
House Mekarae
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:52:00 - [115]
 

Any chance of a cruiser (force recon maybe) capable of housing a gang link module. Will be needed for fast moving recon squads.

Adam C
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:52:00 - [116]
 

best thing to come out of kali I



im really dreading alot of the other stuff though going by the test server


Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:52:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: TomB

Commanders can give bonuses, commanders receive the bonuses they give.

They do not get bonuses from other commanders, i.e. Squad Commander does not receive bonuses from the Wing or Fleet Commander.

The ONLY reason for this is a technical issue, it's on our list for fixes.

This is how it is currently on the Test Server (SiSi).


Ah. Cool. I was wondering why that "commanders get no benefit from each other" thing was there, this clears that point up.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 15:53:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Darpz
sorry don't like it. I like the interface changes, but I don't like the new gang setup for a numbers of reason

It nerfs carriers and command ships hard since it forces them to be commanders for the gang bonus's to apply but this doesn't work normally because well carriers sit in safe/pos away from battle and command useually do that same or are support killers since they do not have the ablity to work at the ranges that battles happen.

Its overly complex- yes its cool to read about but its just to complex. Running a fleet is complex enough without having to worry about inviting people into that mess. I can see TS now

Person 1: X for gang
FC: would a squadcommander invite him.
SC1: sorry i'm full
SC2: Sorry I'm full also
SC4: Also Full
SC5: yup same
FC: SC3?
SCI: he must be afk
FC: ok will someone make a new squad?
....
FC: so no else can make a squad?
....
Person 1: nm i'm going ot play wow


FC: hey wait I can invite anyone into any squad...
WC1: oh yeah I can invite anyone to any squad in my wing!
FC: dude I can even create a new squad and move some dude from some other squad to a commander position of it
WC2: I mean that's so cool
Gang Creator: hey I can do everything that the fleet commander can do, move people around and invite

Mongo Smith
Amarr
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:54:00 - [119]
 

Thanks for the prompt responses TomB.

Not sure if its been mentioned before or not, one feature that would be useful would be the ability to rename each wing/fleet/squadron to aid in the organisation.

Adam C
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.07 15:55:00 - [120]
 

and why no videos and such
saving it for the fanfest ?


you guys really know howto starve our evelust ^^


Pages: first : previous : 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (15)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only