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Bermag
Point-Zero
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2006.11.07 12:58:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Bermag on 07/11/2006 13:00:02
Does this mean that you can get same bonus from 3 gang member, fleet leader, wing commander and squad leader or is it still only the highest bonus that applies?

EDIT: Sorry question replied before I hit reply.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:00:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 07/11/2006 13:07:44
Originally by: Sensi Milla
A gang limit of 50 will needlessly cripple alliance combat when Kali hits, since nobody will be able to train the skills until they are released - and even then, with good skills it will take at least a month to match a 50 man gang limit.


Slight hyperbole. With Leadership V you get 10 people in squadron. That's, what, 5 days of training, even if you have no leadership to start with -- and pretty much everyone has at least Leadership 3-4, it's only rank 1. For 50 people, you need Wing Command 4. So that's a rank 8 skill to level 4, which is... dunno, 7 days (just a guess)?

So that's 5 + 7 = 12 days, less than 2 weeks.

...and everyone else will be in the same boat, it's not like you'll be the only alliance dealing with this. Very Happy

So we'll see smaller gangs for a few weeks. Sky isn't falling.

Of course, if your Charisma is 3 then it sucks to be you. Nobody forced you to take that minimized charisma, now it's payback time for all the training time you've saved up to now. Twisted Evil

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:03:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 13:04:10
Originally by: TomB
It won't be available in Kali but it's planned for next upcoming release. The good thing though is that you have collapsing groups inside the gang UI and members take less space now.

So the gang UI itself takes less space. The addon is the gang broadcast window how ever which you can resize as you want to see as many broadcasts you want to at given moment.

Awesome beans! \o/

PS: I knew 13 base charisma would make me awesome one day!

Sir Juri
Caldari
Gangbus
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:06:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Sir Juri on 07/11/2006 13:08:14
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2006 13:04:10
Originally by: TomB
It won't be available in Kali but it's planned for next upcoming release. The good thing though is that you have collapsing groups inside the gang UI and members take less space now.

So the gang UI itself takes less space. The addon is the gang broadcast window how ever which you can resize as you want to see as many broadcasts you want to at given moment.

Awesome beans! \o/

PS: I knew 13 base charisma would make me awesome one day!


Time to buy charisma implants now before prices GOES BONANZA!Very Happy

edit; 2implants bought, now just need to wait and see when prices goes up.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:06:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Sensi Milla
A gang limit of 50 will needlessly cripple alliance combat when Kali hits, since nobody will be able to train the skills until they are released - and even then, with good skills it will take at least a month to match a 50 man gang limit.


You'll be capable of having a Fleet of 256 members right away, the only problem is that you won't be capable of having the Fleet Commander active until he has sufficient skills to run an army of that size. So the only difference is that this single Commander can't be giving gang bonuses to this big group of players.


Now I'm confused. I thought the new skills affected the number of members you could have in your squadron, or the number of squadrons you could have in your wing, etc... but the above implies that you could form a max-size fleet with zero Leadership skills.

How does that work?

Tiuwaz
Minmatar
No Paradise
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:06:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Tiuwaz on 07/11/2006 13:07:39
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Two step
Does the bonus comign from squadron, wing and fleet commanders mean that you can get 3 bonuses stacked? Or is it just the highest bonus like it is now?


Highest bonus counts, like how it is now.


then there is no real point to have several ppl with gangskills if the fleetcommander got them? :/


P.S.: not saying that they should stack but had hoped that the maximum pf ppl someone with gang skills could affect would be a wing

Tedric
Genco
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:07:00 - [37]
 

Scouts.... I see one problem with scouts and broadcasts.

I would like to see an option where you can limit who can see what the scout says, mainly to prevent the leackage of information to the fleet in general.

Spys in fleets are common place.

ted.

Cpt Pewpew
DEATH'S LEGION
Mayhem.
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:07:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Nice but please make it so that you can disconnect the gang window from the overview, its impossible to fit both under each other after these changes.

It won't be available in Kali but it's planned for next upcoming release. The good thing though is that you have collapsing groups inside the gang UI and members take less space now.

So the gang UI itself takes less space. The addon is the gang broadcast window how ever which you can resize as you want to see as many broadcasts you want to at given moment. If you don't like getting the broadcast window then just collapse it until you can split the control panel Rolling Eyes


Do you mean Kali 2 or do you mean next release in 3 years. i hope that was release after kali 1, ie kali 2.

And great stuff btw

*Cpt Pewpew selfdestructs

Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:10:00 - [39]
 

Correction... 14 base. Razz
So 14 + 10 + 5 = 29 Charisma ^_^

Intelligence 9
Perception 8
Willpower 4
Memory 4
^
Might pose some problems towards training command ships though Razz

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:11:00 - [40]
 

Great change’s but I guess I need to find a new corp to join. Being a Command ship pilot with high leadership skills is a little pointless sin my current corp where I have yet to even see another corp member.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:12:00 - [41]
 

Additional question: I'm a bit puzzled as to why squadron commanders don't (apparently) get the best bonuses from their wing/fleet commanders, which the non-leader pilots under him do, and likewise wing commanders apparently(?) don't benefit from fleet commander bonus?

Wouldn't it make more sense like this:

squad members: get highest of squad/wing/fleet commander bonus
squad commanders: get highest of own/wing/fleet bonus
wing commanders: get highest of own/fleet bonus
fleet commanders: are uber and don't need no stinkin' extra bonus Very Happy

jeNK
Caldari
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:14:00 - [42]
 

"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.

So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)

and now gang alts.

Ezekiel Garett
Caldari
Lords of Camelot
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:17:00 - [43]
 

Wondering a bit about skills here.

First we have Leadership (rank 1) skill. Then Squadron Command (rank 6, needing Leadership V). Then Wing Command (rank 8, needing Squadron Command V). So about 2,5-3 months or sumtin to train those to max, depending on attributes.

In Blog was mentioned a new skill not yet visible in database: Fleet Command. Will that skill require Wing Command V ??? or is it a "stand-alone" skill. If first option there will be some time before we see even the first new Fleet.

Pellaeon DuGalle
Caldari
Deep Black Industries
House of Mercury
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:17:00 - [44]
 

Will it be possible for a member (be it the cannon fodder or the fleet commander) to send broadcasts to a specific group of people or individuals outside their own "squad"?

Say I have a squad with pure logistics, and as cannon fodder, I scream for more shields. Can I direct that broadcast to a single logistics ship in another squad whom my FC has designated as my combat squad's healer?

If I'm the FC, and I'm in dire need to boosting, can I also direct that to an individual or squad who I've designated to be my bodyguard? Or will my cries for help override all filters and end up spamming everybody?

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:22:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.

So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)

and now gang alts.


Funny, I do all those (fairly well) with my main. Guess nobody told me I needed all those alts.

jeNK
Caldari
STK Scientific
INVICTUS.
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:25:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.

So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)

and now gang alts.


Funny, I do all those (fairly well) with my main. Guess nobody told me I needed all those alts.

Says it in the blog "Specialised path"

So you're happy to train rank 12 skills+ everytime a new feature comes out that is a necessity if you want to continue playing? k, good for you.

Idara
Caldari
Queens of the Stone Age
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:26:00 - [47]
 

Kind of annoying that I've trained lower-level gang skills (target bonus, speed etc.) to use in small gangs and now those bonuses won't apply. Sad

Sovereign533
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:27:00 - [48]
 

WOOHOO!!!
<3 u :P

Silvero
Gallente
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:29:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Silvero on 07/11/2006 13:32:01
Question:

Will a squad commander be able to gang warp "his" squad to a object/covert/member.
And with that i wonder if it follows the same hirarcy that a wing commander could reposition "his" squads, while the fleet commander can move the entire fleet ?

Or will the fleet commander be the only one able to gang warp as it is today, hopefully not.

/Silvero

Tirg


ISD YARR
Interstellar Services Department
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:31:00 - [50]
 

Currently, if I am in a command ship, with 3 information warfare links active, and ganged with other command ships, the whole gang is boosted. If I dock, the gang gets no information boosts at all, no matter what someone else may have skill wise. So I don't really see that changing ( stays the same).

EX :For those who are miners, let me put it this way. Gang of 5, 3 have mining foreman 4 and me with 5. I dock, the entire bonus goes away, it doesn't drop to foreman 4 bonus.


However, this new way means, only my *squadron/wing* gets my info warfare boost? The other wings don't? they only get what the command ship they're attached to has?
I'm trying not to see this as a nerf ( though that part may have been needed):) I like that more organization is required, and I LOVE the broadcast ability, which is going to make calling primary much easier. It's also going to require more player skill, rather than just slapping 4 maxxed out command ships into gang then rolling ( as currently).

Gripen
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:32:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Zothike
I'm not sure to understand, does it mean that if i'm in a BC with gang modules, for the bonus to apply to all members i have to be the leader of the entity (fleet commander to give all bonuses to fleet, wing commander to give bonus to all the squadron ? if i dont want to be a leader then i'm useless? then GANG modules = being FC ?

I would also like to hear clarification about this.

Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:34:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Severa Crest
Originally by: Blind Man
Edited by: Blind Man on 07/11/2006 12:24:48
Originally by: Zothike
I'm not sure to understand, does it mean that if i'm in a BC with gang modules, for the bonus to apply to all members i have to be the leader of the entity (fleet commander to give all bonuses to fleet, wing commander to give bonus to all the squadron ? if i dont want to be a leader then i'm useless? then GANG modules = being FC ?


yeah...I don't want to have to be the leader Confused


Players who didnt want to lead should have thought twice before training leadership skills and command ships. Laughing




Actually, thats called radically changing the goal posts.

Parallax Error
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:36:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Gripen
Originally by: Zothike
I'm not sure to understand, does it mean that if i'm in a BC with gang modules, for the bonus to apply to all members i have to be the leader of the entity (fleet commander to give all bonuses to fleet, wing commander to give bonus to all the squadron ? if i dont want to be a leader then i'm useless? then GANG modules = being FC ?

I would also like to hear clarification about this.


As far as I can work out, you can only give a gang bonus to people you are commanding in the fleet. So yes, you have to assume some stage of command be it Squadron/Wing or Fleet for your gang modules to have any effect.

Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:41:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: jeNK
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
Originally by: jeNK
"Milking the cash cow" springs to mind.

So we have pvp alts/mains
Industrial alts
Research alts
+ more (capital alts/mains?)

and now gang alts.


Funny, I do all those (fairly well) with my main. Guess nobody told me I needed all those alts.

Says it in the blog "Specialised path"

So you're happy to train rank 12 skills+ everytime a new feature comes out that is a necessity if you want to continue playing? k, good for you.


Well, I have yet to see any rank 12 skills that are a necessity to the way I play. Pretty much all the "necessary" stuff is max rank 5.

But yeah, if a new rank 12 skill came out that I felt was necessary to me, hell yes I'd train it. You know what the good thing about those high ranks is? Not that many bother to train them, or just train on mono-focused alts, giving you an edge if you do have them. It always a trade-off.

But this is digressing a bit from the point of this thread.

Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:43:00 - [55]
 

Ok Queston?

OK a gang of 2 corp m8 join togeather to do whatever.
One memeber has trained a crap load of Seige warfare skills
The other member has trained a crap loan of Skirmish warfar skills.

In the Current system both gang members get both bonuses.

In the new system The leader gets no bonuses and the gang M8 only gets the bonuse of the leader... If this correct?

If so this compleatly blows.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 13:43:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Tiuwaz
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 07/11/2006 13:07:39
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Two step
Does the bonus comign from squadron, wing and fleet commanders mean that you can get 3 bonuses stacked? Or is it just the highest bonus like it is now?


Highest bonus counts, like how it is now.


then there is no real point to have several ppl with gangskills if the fleetcommander got them? :/


P.S.: not saying that they should stack but had hoped that the maximum pf ppl someone with gang skills could affect would be a wing

If your Squad Commander can't run your Squad, then it's inactive and can't receive bonuses.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 13:45:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Pottsey
Great change’s but I guess I need to find a new corp to join. Being a Command ship pilot with high leadership skills is a little pointless sin my current corp where I have yet to even see another corp member.

Ok.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2006.11.07 13:47:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Pellaeon DuGalle
Will it be possible for a member (be it the cannon fodder or the fleet commander) to send broadcasts to a specific group of people or individuals outside their own "squad"?

Say I have a squad with pure logistics, and as cannon fodder, I scream for more shields. Can I direct that broadcast to a single logistics ship in another squad whom my FC has designated as my combat squad's healer?

If I'm the FC, and I'm in dire need to boosting, can I also direct that to an individual or squad who I've designated to be my bodyguard? Or will my cries for help override all filters and end up spamming everybody?

That's one of the features we had to cut for Kali; we were going for selective broadcast sending by sending the broadcast only to members or group that you had selected in the gang UI.

Ethidium Bromide
Amarr
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:49:00 - [59]
 

i really really like the new system!

on the one hand you can still run the old style pick up gang (without boni though) and on the other hand if you put effort into it you get the new style kinky, easy to command once set up (1-2 hours for a fleet? anyone thinking about raids in WOW atm?) fleet gangs.

great work! looking forward to be in one of those new gangs

Adam Reed
Seniors Clan
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2006.11.07 13:49:00 - [60]
 

Hang about...

"gang bonuses of any kind (skills, modules) have been disabled completely"

...now, I know this thread seems to be all about combat, but I just want to check - this doesn't mean non-combat gang bonuses have been scrapped as well does it? The extra 10% yield for a gang with Mining Foreman level 5 is what I'm principally thinking of.


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