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bluebandit
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:36:00 - [421]
 

looks awesome :)

Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2006.11.15 22:51:00 - [422]
 

Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/11/2006 20:56:27
Originally by: Oveur
A number of reasons for this change. We can start with the performance issues, the current model where it's the "best in gang for that attribute" is very expensive.


If it is too difficult for you to code efficiently, then here's a simple solution: Just let the gang leader manually pick which player to be used as the "highest" gang bonus for each gang module. The commander knows who is the best, and if he doesn't, then oh well. Sometimes humans are the answer to your coding woes.

Shamis


QFT Laughing

Better interface Very Happy
Vivox gimmicks Smile
SUPPORT skills shafted Mad

Though many of those support skillpoints were trained on alts meant for ss boosting anyway i'm guessing. Same gameplay rubbish as many carriers are being played now IMHO. Still... sick big time for the peeps that trained it on their main but for support, not for leading.

I think Shamis' idea of the commander selecting the person who's skills are being applied (perhaps not for the whole fleet but for each individual wing or squad instead), is WAAAAAAAAAY better then this vague bullcrap.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2006.11.16 18:06:00 - [423]
 

Originally by: Tobiaz
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 07/11/2006 20:56:27
Originally by: Oveur
A number of reasons for this change. We can start with the performance issues, the current model where it's the "best in gang for that attribute" is very expensive.


If it is too difficult for you to code efficiently, then here's a simple solution: Just let the gang leader manually pick which player to be used as the "highest" gang bonus for each gang module. The commander knows who is the best, and if he doesn't, then oh well. Sometimes humans are the answer to your coding woes.

Shamis


QFT Laughing

Better interface Very Happy
Vivox gimmicks Smile
SUPPORT skills shafted Mad

Though many of those support skillpoints were trained on alts meant for ss boosting anyway i'm guessing. Same gameplay rubbish as many carriers are being played now IMHO. Still... sick big time for the peeps that trained it on their main but for support, not for leading.

I think Shamis' idea of the commander selecting the person who's skills are being applied (perhaps not for the whole fleet but for each individual wing or squad instead), is WAAAAAAAAAY better then this vague bullcrap.


... because saying "only those in command positions give gang boni" is such a vague statement. Rolling Eyes


Azure Skyclad
Amarr
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2006.11.16 18:19:00 - [424]
 

A system-wide tactical view meshing information from dispersed gangs, probes etc seems like a logical next step from this. Any thoughts?


Radioact1ve
BIG
Posted - 2006.11.19 10:29:00 - [425]
 

This fleet command structure is very cumbersome. A squad size of 5 is too small, especially if you cannot have eve form the squads automatically...

Also, I wonder if you can make it desirable to bring gang assist ships close to the fight. Maybe the command ships bonus' should be only grid-wide, but in return their resistances improve by the number of ships in range. The current situation where commships generally hang out in a safespot while fleets clash is boring -and the new fleet structure will not have much impact without such a change.

Itoz
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.19 18:02:00 - [426]
 

Now I didn't read the whole thread so it might have been brought up. But what about mining gang bonuses? Would you have to have a fleet gang?

Forino Ovoli
Multiverse Corporation
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:08:00 - [427]
 

Originally by: Severa Crest

Players who didnt want to lead should have thought twice before training leadership skills and command ships.



What an arrogant response! Those people trained to those skills and ships in a system that explicitly allowed them to lend benefits to gangs without being a leader.

Specific example. My young son plays and has chosen to pursue the leadership skills leading towards a command ship. He may have very little inclination or desire to actually lead a gang. However, in his own way - under the old system - he would have offered significant benefits to that gang.

Another example, a small Corp assigned various roles to their members to specialize in different leadership skills. That way, when together as a gang, they all gain from each other.

Under this new system, one of them must now spend an inordinate amount of time training up the skills he (or she) did not have. Whilst the others will be, in effect, useless waste of skill points when they are operating as a gang.

Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2006.11.20 17:42:00 - [428]
 

Originally by: Forino Ovoli
Originally by: Severa Crest

Players who didnt want to lead should have thought twice before training leadership skills and command ships.



What an arrogant response! Those people trained to those skills and ships in a system that explicitly allowed them to lend benefits to gangs without being a leader.

Specific example. My young son plays and has chosen to pursue the leadership skills leading towards a command ship. He may have very little inclination or desire to actually lead a gang. However, in his own way - under the old system - he would have offered significant benefits to that gang.

Another example, a small Corp assigned various roles to their members to specialize in different leadership skills. That way, when together as a gang, they all gain from each other.

Under this new system, one of them must now spend an inordinate amount of time training up the skills he (or she) did not have. Whilst the others will be, in effect, useless waste of skill points when they are operating as a gang.


QFT

This is now the problem we have in our small corp, which 1 of the 4 goes for the full whack and leaves the rest with pointless skills.

Especialy dificult with a multi racial corp of shield and armour tankers for example.

As for Severa's comment, do you honestly think the rest of the players should avoid the wonders of the command ship incase they are asked to lead? I guess they can all go fly BS eh? Its probably the only comparable ship to a command ship in game for solo abilities and gang related tasks IMO.

Rumbaar
Solitary Forsaken
Posted - 2006.11.21 00:07:00 - [429]
 

Wow late to the party once again.

I think the changes for larger fleets can be beneficial and micro management of large battles is a must (node crashes not withstanding, can a node handle 256 BS's in a system?)

But the affect to the gang bonuses, or lack there-of, both sucks and blows!!

What about a small corp who in a tight group of say 5-6 people when for individual gang specialization. Each one trained for one of the key gang bonuses. Now when they gang they all get the bonuses (is this game about team work, all for a common goal). Now in this new system they are screwed, only one bonus will apply and they've all wasted their gang/team mate bonus training.

This change is a nerf for the majority of small corps or small group of gangers. Not happy.

Trey Pator
Posted - 2006.11.22 19:47:00 - [430]
 

Edited by: Trey Pator on 18/12/2006 22:23:58
Why does this have to complicate things so much. Once again the server crashing mobs ruin another feature for the smaller corporations. This effectivily ruins the gang system, It adds needless complexity to small gang operations, and plain just doesnt make sense. Why does a fleet commander not get bonuses from thier officers? What about small gangs? Why is EVE becoming so "alliance" centric?
What happened to the concept of a smaller corporation?
What happened to the concept of gangs?
I know, It has been replaced with the concept of the mob.
edited to add and refute my own post:
The new gang system is great, It does everything I hoped it would while preserving the sanctity of small gang operations. Way to go Dev Team!

Lani'i
Posted - 2006.11.22 22:41:00 - [431]
 

This makes no sense to me... I am just about to hit command ship abilities and now this comes out. I do not have a large corp to offer Fleet bonuses to, the intention of my command ship was to go with my friend (another command ship) share our bonuses and do things in a group of 2, now we cannot share the bonuses (essentially waisted our time training)I think this is completely ruining people who have spent the time to train command ships and their bonuses. It rewards all the PVP guys who only train up to fight, then the people who train gang bonuses are sent to hell. If I had known I would have trained my BS skills rather than waist a 90 day subscription. I will not be purchasing another subscription because of this. I think it is ridiculous and just waists the time of people who train command ships to play with a friend like I have myself. Obviously from reading this forum I am not alone. I do not agree with that, and I will not just purchase more time to "redesign" my character.

Yoshi Takeda
Caldari
Active Fusion
Posted - 2006.11.23 12:30:00 - [432]
 

This System gets way too complex to oversee
turn too much towards very large corps or alliances and
leaves the small corps and gangs at the shallow end of the pond.
Far more shallow than it is already.

I think there is a lot to reconsider with this.

And to repeat one of my fellow poster what is with the Mining Gang Skill ?

Do Mining fleets have to exist next ?
Or does it get dropped completely and become a whole waste of time other fellow miners and me put in that training ?


Leverton
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.12.03 02:39:00 - [433]
 

Edited by: Leverton on 03/12/2006 02:47:56
Edited by: Leverton on 03/12/2006 02:46:04
So let me see if I have got this straight.

If I have Leadership V and I have a gang bonus running and I'm the squad commander, my squad gets that bonus. However, if there is a Wing Commander or Fleet Commander, that Squad Bonus does not apply.

If I have Wing Commander V, I can move to Wing Commander and give gang bonuses to everyone in my Wing, which then over-rides any gang bonuses given by Squad Commanders. However, if there is a Fleet Commander, my gang bonus is gone.

If I have Fleet Commander V, my gang bonus applies to everyone in the gang no matter what other bonuses are running.

Is this correct?

Leverton
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2006.12.03 02:42:00 - [434]
 

Edited by: Leverton on 03/12/2006 02:45:46

Mary CarryAlot
Posted - 2006.12.29 12:37:00 - [435]
 

I love this enhancement but please please please can you move those new gang icons to the top of the overview - i like to have my gang twisty collapsed.

Del

Rabiat
Amarr
Rim Collection RC
Kraftwerk.
Posted - 2007.01.06 16:21:00 - [436]
 

After having read everything I could find in the dev's blogs and in the forums I still haven't figured out how the fleet system is working. There's a lot of questions that haven't been answered.

Who give bonus to who - why or why don't they give bonus?

What does the red/green light indicate - giving or receiving bonus?

Does bonus from FC - WC - SC stack?

So please TomB; Make a new updated blog on how the Fleet/bonus system is working!


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