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Sylthi
Minmatar
Coreward Pan-Galactic
Holy Empire of The Unshaven
Posted - 2006.11.26 13:44:00 - [211]
 

Bottom line: I'm NOT going to use it; and here's why:

#1. Yes, $10 a year is VERY reasonable, and the cost is very low. BUT, and this is a BIG point, it shouldn't cost us ANYTHING and should be integrated for ALL of the players of Eve, not just a select few who want to take the plunge. DDO (D&D Online) has had BEAUTIFUL integrated voice chat for EVERYONE since launch. They charge $14.95 USD a month just like Eve. So why should WE have to pick up an extra expense, no matter how low and reasonable it is, when we are already paying for these game expansions to come in with our monthly fees? Simple answer: We shouldn't have to. A quick aside, I LOVE how CCP calls this Rev Chapter One a "free" expansion. It's NOT "free" for goodness sake. We pay every month for this development along with access to the servers. Sorry, off topic, just had to stick my two cents in about that little pet peeve of mine. I HATE it how they are always claiming they are “giving” us these expansions for “free”. Back on topic, on with the discussion.

#2. I play several MMOs. I am sure many of you do too. The TeamSpeak server I run works for ALL of those games, not just individual ones, AND it’s FREE. How can you beat FREE?!? Also, how can you beat bouncing around to different channels to see what is going on in ALL of the games you play, all on the same server? I have PLENTY of bandwidth on my server to run all of my corp-mates in Eve, and SEVERAL other clans and organizations I run in the other games, all at once, all on the HIGHEST bit rate, all for FREE. So, as many people have said above, TS wins hands down.

IMHO, this entire voice project, as it is currently being implemented, is a waste of CCP resources and time. They should be spending their time fixing long standing bugs and fixing the most recent examples of sloppy code work rather than implementing something that is only going to benefit a relatively small portion of the community. If they wanted integrated voice chat in the game so badly, they should be implementing it for EVERYONE, and simply raise the monthly fee by 80 cents. I, and I am sure many others as well, would grumble that we shouldn't have to pay for it at all. But, then at least, it would be uniform and available for all rather than the mish-mash cluster (you know what) its going to be now.

But, the main point behind the whole mess is that this is what happens when game development companies become complacent and lazy: Other games surpass them in integration and customer service. But, the guys at CCP are stubborn, I’ll give them that. They don’t want to be shown up by the SEVERAL other MMOs that are already live, WITH INTEGRATED VOICE CHAT AS PART OF THE NORMAL SUBSCRIPTION FEE. So, they make a typical bonehead corporate decision for those companies that find themselves in “catch up” mode: they outsource. Make no mistake, that is EXACTLY what they have done. They were lazy and complacent and got behind in the times on the subject of integrated voice chat. They then didn’t want to tackle this problem themselves, so they outsourced it, and now they are making the community pay for it. It’s that simple.

But, it’s not like any of my opinions on the subject matter. CCP is going to do what it is going to do in spite of what anyone wants. I just felt like voicing my thoughts on the subject to whoever wanted to read them. That way the word could get out to those who haven’t realized exactly what CCP has done to us with this situation. (If this doesn’t end up in the “snip-it” file.)

To those of you who are going forward with using this “service” I TRULY wish you the best of luck. I hope you enjoy it and get your money’s worth. As for me, nope, not going to use it. EVER. I will also try to convince everyone that will listen not to use it as well until CCP does the RIGHT thing, for once, and makes it available for ALL automatically. Cheers to you all!! Very Happy

Bural
PPN United
Ev0ke
Posted - 2006.11.26 16:19:00 - [212]
 

Quote:
Subscription Info
Cost $10/year.
Pay for 1 voice account through vivox and you can use that voice account on any char and any account.



Shocked

Feng Schui
Minmatar
Cruor Evertum Dominicus
Posted - 2006.11.26 22:21:00 - [213]
 

Ok.. so I've only read through page 3.

As for not being able to communicate while EVE crashes, the solution would be to have the Vivox chat program be a seperate "program" that launches when you click on the eve desktop icon.

Just use a DirectX overlay to display channel info.

I'm not a fan of Ventrilo, but I'd recommend something "similiar" to the teamspeak (or even ventrilo) programs. Here is a description to the overlay (for teamspeak)

TeamSpeak Overlay
Submitted by qbnut on August 12, 2006 23:35 CEST
Current Version: BETA 2 (Changelog)
Last Update: 08-12-2006 23:35
Total Hits: 3892

With TSO, an addition to your games HUD allows you to see whos talking in TeamSpeak 2 without having to switch out of the game. Works with most OpenGL 1.x, DirectX 8 & 9 games, and DirectDraw 7 (Fullscreen only) Games.

Requirements:

Windows 2000/XP
TeamSpeak 2 RC 2
DirectX 9.0c

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2006.11.27 05:07:00 - [214]
 

Originally by: Sylthi
IMHO, this entire voice project, as it is currently being implemented, is a waste of CCP resources and time. They should be spending their time fixing long standing bugs and fixing the most recent examples of sloppy code work rather than implementing something that is only going to benefit a relatively small portion of the community. If they wanted integrated voice chat in the game so badly, they should be implementing it for EVERYONE, and simply raise the monthly fee by 80 cents. I, and I am sure many others as well, would grumble that we shouldn't have to pay for it at all. But, then at least, it would be uniform and available for all rather than the mish-mash cluster (you know what) its going to be now.

But, the main point behind the whole mess is that this is what happens when game development companies become complacent and lazy: Other games surpass them in integration and customer service. But, the guys at CCP are stubborn, I’ll give them that. They don’t want to be shown up by the SEVERAL other MMOs that are already live, WITH INTEGRATED VOICE CHAT AS PART OF THE NORMAL SUBSCRIPTION FEE. So, they make a typical bonehead corporate decision for those companies that find themselves in “catch up” mode: they outsource. Make no mistake, that is EXACTLY what they have done. They were lazy and complacent and got behind in the times on the subject of integrated voice chat. They then didn’t want to tackle this problem themselves, so they outsourced it, and now they are making the community pay for it. It’s that simple.

But, it’s not like any of my opinions on the subject matter. CCP is going to do what it is going to do in spite of what anyone wants. I just felt like voicing my thoughts on the subject to whoever wanted to read them. That way the word could get out to those who haven’t realized exactly what CCP has done to us with this situation. (If this doesn’t end up in the “snip-it” file.)


I had actually chosen not to reply to anything writen for a while to see how the conversation went without me... but then I was thinking about how awesome I am... and I just couldn't resist putting some more of my amazing aura into this thread... and I thought... what better way to do it than by quoting you?

So that being said:

You seem to be up in arms about the amount of time and resources that CCP has put into voice chat. Yet you shun them for their outsourcing work which actually would take a lot less time and resources away from CCP by doing so. However I don't find Vivox hosting the voice chat to be any sort of outsourcing. Vivox provides a service, that service is VoIP in game communication. Vivox has tools and whatnot to help developers easily integrate VoIP into their games. Without Vivox, CCP would have spent MUCH more time developing the voice chat stuff.

You're right about other games having implemented integrated voice chat and included those fees into the normal subscription fee. The games that I'm aware of that have done this actually launced with this technology. And I'm sure if VoIP was as widely avaliable while EVE was in development as it is now EVE may have launched with it already built in and included in subscription fees.

You say that CCP were "lazy and complacent" and have now fallen behind the times of integrated voice chat. Yet you still don't want them to "waste" their time or money on it. That all sounds very contradictory.

Lastly I'm pretty sure you're wrong about CCP not doing what anyone wants... maybe they just don't listen to you... cause I know when I said "Integrated Voice chat sounds almost as awesome as me! I wish EVE had it!" CCP definatly listened... Guess you're not as cool...? Sorry.

-Nate-stigate™ Yourself!

Bein Glorious
SAKUMA DROP
ANAHEIM ELECTRONICS Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.27 16:36:00 - [215]
 

I like the idea of a built-in voice chat client, but I'm afraid my college's firewall blocks the ports that this client uses. I tried using it on the test server and it only gave me connection errors. I'm guessing the Vivox system uses UDP ports, since I can't use Teamspeak either, and that also uses UDP.

One thing that was particularly annoying about this was that it wouldn't stop trying to connect to the voice chat server, and it kept giving me error messages, and I couldn't get it to stop trying to connect. You may want to put in the option of letting players disallow automatic connecting, or disable auto-reconnect, since it may have been contributing to some of the lag I experienced.

Fiyuriy Jhaiden
Minmatar
Ex Coelis
Posted - 2006.11.27 17:44:00 - [216]
 

Originally by: Sylthi
Bottom line: I'm NOT going to use it; and here's why:

#1.A quick aside, I LOVE how CCP calls this Rev Chapter One a "free" expansion. It's NOT "free" for goodness sake. We pay every month for this development along with access to the servers. Sorry, off topic, just had to stick my two cents in about that little pet peeve of mine. I HATE it how they are always claiming they are “giving” us these expansions for “free”. Back on topic, on with the discussion.




Hmmm... not a 'free' expansion? How's this for an expansion. And they're paying monthly too! But they have to pay to get the new content as well! There you have it. CCP is giving us the expansion for free, b/c AFAIK there's no increased cost for subs or registering a new account. So we get Revelations I, II and III for the price of our subscription. WoW players get the Burning Crusade for $50 (CAD) and still have to pay their subscription.

I'm pumped about the Vivox integration. For those people who claim to be able to host a 100+ TS server, good for you. Not everybody can do that though. As somebody who was willing to pay for a year's worth of Ventrilo hosting, I have to say that the thought of only paying $10/year for integrated voice chat is really, really appealing. And is going to help my wallet a bit as I don't have the bandwidth to run a 'free' server. I know that there are many people within my corp who are interested in checking out the Vivox as well.

And y'know what you could do before automatically jumping on the hatewagon, folks? Pay for a year ($10!!!!!!), test it out, try it, play with it and if it isn't up your standards, then don't use it anymore and unsubscribe from the service (or however they're going to run it) and go back to your old solution (TS/Vent/whatever). Sure you've paid for a year and that will be down the drain, but as has been figured out (and mentioned previously) it's 80 some cents a month. Literally pocket change. Also, if CCP/Vivox upgrade/make changes to the integrated voice chat later on, you can still check it out and maybe see if it's worth it then.

I'm waiting till this is implemented on TQ before I judge it fully. From there, I'll pay for a year and test it out and then I'll either recommend it or dissuade people from purchasing it. I'm gonna wait and see how it turns out before automatically discounting it.

For what it's worth, I wish it was just included the with the regular subscription price as well. But I am willing to pay for it. Why? Because you don't get something for nothing. Life doesn't work that way as much as I wish it did. Wink

Synapse Archae
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.27 19:05:00 - [217]
 

Originally by: Nate D

Gang Leader Talk - mutes everyone else in channel.



I hope this can be turned off. In an unruly channel with no discipline yes it helps, but for disciplined gangs it means vital information from scouts might be missed if the FC is talking.

Bottom line - Scouts need to be able to interrupt the FC.

Synapse Archae
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2006.11.27 19:09:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Feng Schui
Ok.. so I've only read through page 3.

As for not being able to communicate while EVE crashes, the solution would be to have the Vivox chat program be a seperate "program" that launches when you click on the eve desktop icon.

Just use a DirectX overlay to display channel info.

I'm not a fan of Ventrilo, but I'd recommend something "similiar" to the teamspeak (or even ventrilo) programs. Here is a description to the overlay (for teamspeak)

TeamSpeak Overlay
Submitted by qbnut on August 12, 2006 23:35 CEST
Current Version: BETA 2 (Changelog)
Last Update: 08-12-2006 23:35
Total Hits: 3892

With TSO, an addition to your games HUD allows you to see whos talking in TeamSpeak 2 without having to switch out of the game. Works with most OpenGL 1.x, DirectX 8 & 9 games, and DirectDraw 7 (Fullscreen only) Games.

Requirements:

Windows 2000/XP
TeamSpeak 2 RC 2
DirectX 9.0c




Wow, just read this and QFT.

Why not just write overlays in eve for Teamspeak and ventrilo, and provide free or cheap TS hosting? That would be both more flexible and more resilient than the current Vivox idea.

Prone Sultur
Gallente
Galactic Security Union
Posted - 2006.11.29 10:20:00 - [219]
 

Originally by: Fiyuriy Jhaiden

Hmmm... not a 'free' expansion? How's this for an expansion. And they're paying monthly too! But they have to pay to get the new content as well! There you have it. CCP is giving us the expansion for free, b/c AFAIK there's no increased cost for subs or registering a new account. So we get Revelations I, II and III for the price of our subscription. WoW players get the Burning Crusade for $50 (CAD) and still have to pay their subscription.

I'm pumped about the Vivox integration. For those people who claim to be able to host a 100+ TS server, good for you. Not everybody can do that though. As somebody who was willing to pay for a year's worth of Ventrilo hosting, I have to say that the thought of only paying $10/year for integrated voice chat is really, really appealing. And is going to help my wallet a bit as I don't have the bandwidth to run a 'free' server. I know that there are many people within my corp who are interested in checking out the Vivox as well.

And y'know what you could do before automatically jumping on the hatewagon, folks? Pay for a year ($10!!!!!!), test it out, try it, play with it and if it isn't up your standards, then don't use it anymore and unsubscribe from the service (or however they're going to run it) and go back to your old solution (TS/Vent/whatever). Sure you've paid for a year and that will be down the drain, but as has been figured out (and mentioned previously) it's 80 some cents a month. Literally pocket change. Also, if CCP/Vivox upgrade/make changes to the integrated voice chat later on, you can still check it out and maybe see if it's worth it then.

I'm waiting till this is implemented on TQ before I judge it fully. From there, I'll pay for a year and test it out and then I'll either recommend it or dissuade people from purchasing it. I'm gonna wait and see how it turns out before automatically discounting it.

For what it's worth, I wish it was just included the with the regular subscription price as well. But I am willing to pay for it. Why? Because you don't get something for nothing. Life doesn't work that way as much as I wish it did. Wink


WoW players get new dungeons and stuff in every patch. Burning Crusade is a little larger than the patches in Eve and thus is an add-on which costs money. The rest (included in patches) brings about the same or more amount of content into WoW and that is for free. If you want to discuss those things, know your reasoning first-hand.

I think both options are great. But since I use Vent and have my own server, I won't use in-game comms. Only if all could use it for free but not as an elitist option.

Axhind
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2006.11.30 00:19:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Prone Sultur


WoW players get new dungeons and stuff in every patch. Burning Crusade is a little larger than the patches in Eve and thus is an add-on which costs money. The rest (included in patches) brings about the same or more amount of content into WoW and that is for free. If you want to discuss those things, know your reasoning first-hand.

I think both options are great. But since I use Vent and have my own server, I won't use in-game comms. Only if all could use it for free but not as an elitist option.


Still we don't have to pay extra for any expansion (so far at least). And it sounds to me as the EVE has been through some big changes so I wouldn't say that WoW is any different.

The good thing with in game connection is that it will make it so much easier to identify spies (just remember all the talk from BoB vs. ASCN war and talk about singing and what not on TS channels) and similarly unwanted people. Also the separation of channels according to new gang formations is also great.

So to sum it up. Yes TS/Vent can be free for some people but they do not offer extra features and IMHO they are well worth it (I would too prefer the "included in monthly fee" solution but as Fiy said nothing is really free).

Viin Dabry
Posted - 2006.11.30 21:32:00 - [221]
 

You guys will complain about anything, won't you?

No one says you have to use it - keep using your Vent/TS server if you want to. Since I don't want to pay $30 a month so my corp members can all talk to each other, it'd actually be cheaper for us all to pay $10/year out of our own pocket.

Reficul Lived
Amarr
Red Blade Industries
United Corporations of Eve
Posted - 2006.12.03 04:06:00 - [222]
 

I am pumped about this idea, think it is awesome. For those who complain, I feel soory for your petty complaints. There is only one thing I would like to see that I think would end the argument of wether the service sucks or not, and that is a trial. I don't think a month long trial is to demanding if we are going to be paying for it at $10 a year. But, unlike what seems most people here don't understand, I understand it is not souly CCP that is responsible. Vivox is a third party company, and CCP is using there software and there system, the people you should really be talking to about Vivox pricing is infact Vivox. CCP might be willing to take a bit of a blow, but I doubt it, they are not microsoft ofcourse. Remember, unless CCP builds the system themselves, they will be using someone elses, meaning they are getting charged for use of that system.

flaming phantom
Minmatar
Tyrell Corp
INTERDICTION
Posted - 2006.12.03 06:26:00 - [223]
 

i say no to this, every1 is using teamspeak to the extent of my knowledge and what i was told is it costs 1 person 5 dollars a month to have a ts address, and this would all cost us 10 dollars when the majority of us are getting to do it for free. i will not pay an extar charge to use the new ssytem and i will be sticking to teamspeak, and from what ive read is that it isnt as functional as ts is and the majority of us get to use it for free

Nyx Opet
Caldari
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.12.04 00:26:00 - [224]
 

i think this would be worth it only if you could talk to people in local channel. otherwise this is only marginally better than ts/vent, and not really worth the cost for the added features.

Tarsonys
Posted - 2006.12.13 04:55:00 - [225]
 

Just a few thoughts after reading so many replys about this Voice Comm.Id rather CCP build its own Voice Comm platform so that ingame effects can be integrated with the system and so that we can be charged cheaper :P
Ingame effects such as not being able to talk when jammed or have a screeching or buzz noice when your ship gets destroyed or podded and lastly, having a more dynamic payment system. E.g. $10 for full voice comm support (being able to talk regardless of game effects) $5 for partial (cannot talk during pod or jammed) $2 for low support (can only talk during normal space flight and within stations (no talking during warp)
Oh and the ability to pay for such services with ISKs, as ISKs can be traded for ETCs/GTCs just like the CSPA charge but alot higher (100mil for a month?) this can limit the amount of new players from mic spamming the channel and ease off server pressure.

Zen Dule
The Lab
Posted - 2006.12.13 06:56:00 - [226]
 

I am also very excited about this idea. I hope it works well and sounds good. Ventrilo is nice but it costs a lot, like 30/mo for 25 people and one person gets the bill.

I can not afford that. However, an extra 10bucks a year, I can afford that! i'll just not eat lunch a couple days! (lol)

regardless, I think all mmos should have some type of voice chat integration. And, ventrilo, TS, do not offer voice mail!!! that will definately be cool.. can leave someone an email that says something. No more reading through tons of emails.

I was very reluctant to start another guild/corp because i have done so many in other games and I know first hand how valuable voice chat is. It brings the community/guild closer together because you can communicate more effectively.

I'll gladly be paying the extra per month, i am more worried about bugs/quality then anything else.

As long as its quality, $00.80 is very worth it...

cheers!Shocked

Barkel
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.12.21 19:15:00 - [227]
 

I had the impression a few weeks back that the Vivox chat system was supposed to be implemented sometime in December. Is that still the case? CCP seems to have become rather quiet on the issue.

Barkel

Pyrmonte
Posted - 2006.12.21 21:02:00 - [228]
 

So when is the voice chat coming?

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2007.02.15 23:20:00 - [229]
 

This post has been updated to reflect the current status of the Vivox integration into EVE. There have been many improvements from the last time that I used it on Sisi yet some old bugs still remain.

Haha... but you should have heard me when I found out that I had the power to mute someone and turn their chat icon red... Muted people CAN still hear the conversation!

-Nate

Bambi
Existentialist Collective
Posted - 2007.03.01 07:52:00 - [230]
 

Nobody is being forced to use Vivox or pay for it. If you want to use Ventrillo or TS then do so, do it for free.
Having tested the voice comms on sisi I can say that the quality is FAR better than TS even using one of the higher bandwidth codecs that come with TS. Personally I wont be paying for vivox, I’ll use it while its free, but as teamspeak is free and does the same job and you have full control over your channels and users.

ElfeGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.01 12:09:00 - [231]
 

some things that come into mind about the voice integration:
- an extra cost will limit the amount of players using it (yes ts/vent costs money as well but paying is more centralized and new/other players can just join in) (add a gametime->voicetime conversion, 2days gametime=1 month voice and 20 days gametime=1 year voice)
- eve with voice integration is the wrong way of doing it, it should be a seperate voice app like ts/vent that works without Eve running/TQ up/Player ctd (all bigger player groups know these problems)
- the external app should be controlled from the game client(s) (managing channels, displaying speakers) but also be possible in the external app

speaker display is useless in a chat channel with 30+ people as the userlist is so long, so a speaker display like the buddy on/offline indicator would help (other position, colors and configurable for portrait display/generation)

Tsunari
Posted - 2007.03.02 01:01:00 - [232]
 

Yea unfortunatly i think this is a waste of precious development time for EVE. Here is why:

1) Everyone already uses TS or Vent therefore the demand for such a product is null.
2) If you crash, or go out of game for a bit, you can't talk or inform anyone, one of the shining moments for TS/Vent users.
3) Costs 10 bucks? Only suckers will do this. Planetside tried this and it was FREE. Had similar features, squad members names would light up, even their positions on the map would flash when they are talking. And yet, it failed.

Sorry CCP, nice idea but its money and time wasted which could have been spent on other things IMHO.

ElfeGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.03.02 13:43:00 - [233]
 

afaik in planetside one player had to play the voice server part so he had to reconfigure his firewall also the users change a lot (logging in/out) so it was doomed from the beginning

Dunpeal
Caldari
M'8'S
Posted - 2007.03.03 01:12:00 - [234]
 

I personally still believe the cost for vivox should just be incremented to the subscription mettod, everyone would have acces, and in a week everyone would've completly forgot about typing Razz

Ior Mader
Exiled.
Un-Natural Selection
Posted - 2007.03.03 03:42:00 - [235]
 

Well our corp signed up for the test and we got vivox enabled on our accounts without warning and also without any instructions - which is I suppose a good way of testing its usability.

Unfortunately this backfired for me since it seems the win2k issue is still there - "WTSUnregistersessionnotification error message". Result was several hours bugging the poor GM's who also had no idea why I suddenly had no channels at all - including local, corp and alliance.

I've run into this problem before in win2k using two voice programs. It simply does not allow more than one to be used at a time. Perhaps if I'd realised Eve voice was enabled or received some warning and disabled such things as skype and teamspeak, the problem with Eve voice might not have arisen. I've also noticed that simply turning off those other programs is not always enough as sometimes the soundcard is not fully released. Sometimes it takes a full reboot to be sure the card is clear and available AND I now never have any voice programs running on autostart.

It seems my test is now over. Eve voice is now disabled on my account.

iulixxi
Caldari
EVE-RO
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2007.03.05 12:02:00 - [236]
 

I believe that manny players wont quit on TS on Vivox favour for the folowing reasons:

01. Vivox is a payed service (not much but some people can't pay by card and from here comes the payment problem)
02. ALL the people in the same corp/aliance must use THE SAME service for a good understanding so i believe that few will use Vivox.

From the above reasons I simply asked:

Since Vivox will be such a good service why don u increease the payment with 0.83 USD/month and let us all have it ?

Nate D
Hell's Rejects
The Council.
Posted - 2007.03.08 20:53:00 - [237]
 

Thread and OP update today.

New announcements:
8 Mar. 2007
EVE Voice Vista support announced for patch on 20 March.

8 Mar. 2007
EVE Voice: Solid info from MMORPG.com at the GDC.

-Nate

xJohnnyDx
Phoibe Enterprises
SOLAR WING
Posted - 2007.03.22 12:41:00 - [238]
 

Unfortunately, the servers are coming back online in a couple minutes, and playing EVE is more important to me than reading about it :)

That being said, sorry if this has come up already, but have any devs acknowledged and/or commented on the fact that Ventrilo and Teamspeak both have huge advantages over this software, most importantly the fact that this service, even with small corps with 15 or so members, will be paying more than they would for a TS or Vent server? Another very big plus is that TS and Vent can both be used outside of game (if I've read the descriptions correctly.) A lot of corps have become groups of friends, that may still talk and hang out, even if not in game. Many corps have members that play other games as well, I'm sure, that they use their voice programs for.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other minor reasons, but those are the big ones that I'd like to see an official response on.

Alcrista Somez
Amarr
Wreckless Abandon
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.03.22 15:50:00 - [239]
 

I havent read the whole thread ( I only had a couple of hours) so in repeat of what I imagine a lot of other people have said, the 2 key things for me are:

Most serious corps and alliances need everyone on voice comms for ops, so unless everyone in the group is forced to pay the extra fee, the service is unusable for everyone. No point using it if only half of your ops fleet is on it. People will just end up using TS etc as everyone uses it already.

Having voice comms when youre not logged in or the servers are down is of high value - both strategic and social. Unless Ive missed something that wont be an option with this service.






NumberFour
Posted - 2007.03.22 21:05:00 - [240]
 

Edited by: NumberFour on 22/03/2007 21:14:15


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