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Tribunal
FIRMA
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:22:00 - [151]
 

Edited by: Tribunal on 05/11/2006 01:22:13
Originally by: Murukan
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Murukan

Simply put no because null had made the whole point of minmatar close range obsolete. Autocannon's only advantage over blasters is the fact that they get a ton of falloff so they tend to be able to shoot out farther from blaster's range. But with null that advantage was gone.


This is pure BS.

AutoPests outdamage megathrons using Null from about 16km outward, which is how it should be.

Anyone who claims anything more dramatic is wrong.




And how feasible is it to keep the thron at 18kms the whole fight?Rolling Eyes


Use a tackler you tard! =P

Avoid
Gallente
Vale Tudo.
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:26:00 - [152]
 

Why dont u try fit a blasterT whit void ammo and try to kill smtg whit it?, Its pretty simple, u dont hit annything at all if u are moving. Thats why people use null ammo so u can sit still and hit the targets.

There is no fights in pvp were you are in range to use void ammo.

If you want to make it more even compaired to other things, decrease the damage null does whit 10% - 15%

Spaja Saist
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:56:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: xeom
Originally by: Deitre Cibrus
Edited by: Deitre Cibrus on 02/11/2006 23:58:21
I should rethink my t2 large blaster training.



Yep because Void is going to suck now?

Stop crying guys its not of the end of the world.Your CLOSE range ship is not suposed to be mid range.


Man I hate ******ed people like you. What part of tracking nerf not doing anything to range don't you get? Instead of reducing the range it just make the ammo unusable.

I have to say, I thought TomB was terrible with balancing but then Tux came along and made TomB look like he actually knew what he was doing. Everything Tux touches is a disaster. CCP would you please fire this guy before he ruins your game.

Spaja Saist
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.05 01:57:00 - [154]
 

Originally by: Itaro Flagg
Originally by: LWMaverick
Originally by: xeom
Originally by: Deitre Cibrus
Edited by: Deitre Cibrus on 02/11/2006 23:58:21
I should rethink my t2 large blaster training.



Yep because Void is going to suck now?

Stop crying guys its not of the end of the world.Your CLOSE range ship is not suposed to be mid range.



You fail horribly at acting mature.

We(at least some of us), tell from experience, that this nerf, is over the top, and shouldnt be this drastic, and some of us, are trying to come up with another way of fixing this so called "problem", where your are throughly bitter that you got your ass handed to you, at the mega's game.. close range(define that too please, cause imo, close range is 0-20k)

Other thing is, who said it wasnt supposed to ?

CCP obviously thinks it should, and what they have done so far, is to give null a tracking nref.. not a range nerf, so...

What are you basing it on?


Ya. Smooth. Close range is 0-20k, meaning EVERY SOLO ENGAGEMENT.

At least you're being upfront in what you want. You're flat out asking to dominate every solo engagement. It seems, sad for you, that CCP has a slight problem with this.

And heck, you even explained in a previous post in this thread, that Null allowed your ship to engage Minmatar BS in their preferred range (right at the edge of disrupter range) when they have effectively utilized all of their strengths (speed/falloff), to counter your superior damage and tank, and Null allowed you to win 99% of these fights.

Of course this is balanced, right? I guess so, as long as you fly Gallente.


But they aren't you ninny. They aren't reducing the range at all. Just the tracking.

Spaja Saist
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:10:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Tasty Burger
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
All of this aside, the BIGGEST threat to blaster ships is:

*drumroll*

CAP! 50% HP BUFF!

Jeeze. People are forgetting this? THIS is what we need to be *****ing about. I know it is slightly off topic, but it is a far larger threat than the null nerf or the void nerf.

It is the 50% HP buff that will render blaster ships useless.


WAAH WAAH WAAH WAAH

Instead of taking 5 volleys to kill a battleship in a blasterthron it'll take 7 or 8! WAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10 EXTRA SECONDS!!!!!!!!!!! Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad

SHUT THE HELL UP GALLENTE WHINERS.

NULL IS STILL OVERPOWERED EVEN WITH THE TRACKING NERF BECAUSE IT MAKES AUTOCANNONS POINTLESS. YOU ARE LUCKY TO EVEN HAVE A LONG RANGE AMMO FOR BLASTERS!!!!!!!!!!


You sir are an idiot. I guess you failed your math classes. 50% HP increase to all ships means fights will take far longer than before which also means that cap becomes even more important. So the Amarr are gonna really get hit by this increase as they use the most cap in the game. Of course Minmater and Caldari won't have to worry about that since their primary weapons use no cap. All this *****ing about ACs not being as good as blasters is mute. Minmaters always fail to take into consideration the fact that their main weapons use no cap. That in itself is a huge bonus. You want to do the same damage as blasters then expend the cap to do it. You seem to miss the fact that you can do almost the same DPS at a longer range than blasters yet use no cap. Soundds like Tux needs to nerf minmater and make their guns use cap.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2006.11.05 02:15:00 - [156]
 

O.K. Here is a question

Is the current iteration of conflagration on TQ unusable/useless at all ranges?

If you say yes, why?

If you say no, then there isnt anything to complain about with Null, as pulse lasers have about 60% the base tracking of blasters, and conflagration has a 50% tracking penalty on top of that.

If you want to fight at medium ranges with a blaster boat, you will have to play a manuver game in order to decrease transversal/angular velocity in order to score hits on equally skilled pilots using autocannons who are also able to outrun your turrets.

Compared the a Megapulse user at that range you will have roughly 60% more tracking than their current tracking on TQ. Conflagration is not useless as far as I can tell, and because of such, i dont think that the tracking nerf is really going to be all that bad.

It aint the end of long range blasters folks, its just the end of them out damaging and out tracking autocannons who were supposed to be kings at that range.

Audrea
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.05 03:03:00 - [157]
 

Originally by: Butter Dog
Edited by: Butter Dog on 02/11/2006 17:35:25
Originally by: Flaming sambuka
Null = long range blaster ammo, tracking hit means pointless at long range so... why???


What is worse, is that this is only half the story.

On small ships like the Taranis and Thorax which often rely on transversal to stay alive, Null will be completely useless. No-one in their right mind would use it.




Yes, what a bastards.
One hand is boosting the Deimos, the other hand nerfs her right away! Evil or Very Mad

Tasty Burger
Posted - 2006.11.05 03:30:00 - [158]
 

Edited by: Tasty Burger on 05/11/2006 03:30:38
Originally by: Avoid
Why dont u try fit a blasterT whit void ammo and try to kill smtg whit it?, Its pretty simple, u dont hit annything at all if u are moving. Thats why people use null ammo so u can sit still and hit the targets.

There is no fights in pvp were you are in range to use void ammo.

If you want to make it more even compaired to other things, decrease the damage null does whit 10% - 15%


So basically you're an idiot and dont know how to reduce transversal? And you want to be able to just "sit still and hit the targets"? Also, lol at "There is no fights in pvp were you are in range to use void ammo. " Right.

I do agree with your idea though.

Null should not have a tracking penalty.

However, it should have 15% less damage than now, perhaps less falloff boost as well.

Theron Gyrow
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2006.11.06 05:50:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Seige Launchers? You'd have to use 425mm's and t1 tank to try and get enough CPU to fit them. You get more damage from a damage mod than fitting seige launchers. The cpu problems caused by seige launchers isn't worth the minimal damage they add.


Erm.

7 Ion IIs: 346,5 CPU
6 650 IIs + 2 siege IIs: 303 CPU

Given that Mega and Tempest have the same of CPU, that argument doesn't fly.

gh0zt
Posted - 2006.11.06 06:13:00 - [160]
 

this whole idea sucks big time...

ccp are you ready to **** of the entire gallente community with this little manuevre... its not a nerf its pretty much taking null out of the game

ZZandra
Point-Zero
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.06 12:36:00 - [161]
 

/signed...leave it as is

Gorith
Posted - 2006.11.14 22:25:00 - [162]
 

Edited by: Gorith on 14/11/2006 22:27:34
/signed. whats the point in nerfing void its hard as hell to get within void range and if its dmg becomes about the same as antimatter void is pointless. and null.. mabe a small tweak but making it where we now cant hit anyone in orbit on us. geez atleast spend a few months testing the changes on singularity or with a small mixed group on a closed server (players not devs) befor pushing it on us

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2006.11.14 22:55:00 - [163]
 

Note i have not read all 5 pages of this discussion so im probably going to say something somebody else already said but whatever.

They are nerfing the longerrange ammo because they think blasters need to be blasters and come close,this would bring about better tempest vs mega fights.

They are nerfing shortrange because they do alot of damage and in kali they dont want damage they want tank.

They are nerfing shortrange and longerrange sniper ammo because they want longer fleetbattles and they want to limit people that arent flying rokhs below the cuttoff.

Keep in mind they are nerfing everybodies t2 ammo also.

MOS DEF
0utbreak
Posted - 2006.11.14 22:59:00 - [164]
 

Signed.
Most stupid change ever.
The fact that barrage stays unharmed is a slap in the face.
Running out of cap after half of the fight dying a slow horrible death is bad enough allready. Let us at least die in dignity so we can actually hit something before we run out of cap boosters. Laughing

goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Valor Empire
Posted - 2006.11.14 23:03:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: MOS DEF
Signed.
Most stupid change ever.
The fact that barrage stays unharmed is a slap in the face.
Running out of cap after half of the fight dying a slow horrible death is bad enough allready. Let us at least die in dignity so we can actually hit something before we run out of cap boosters. Laughing
Their not nerfing barrage?Signed then!

Mainly because they are nerfing blasters rails beams pulse missiles arts....Not autocannons?

Ihar Enda
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2006.11.14 23:36:00 - [166]
 

/signed

Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2006.11.14 23:41:00 - [167]
 

/Signed

Mikelio Raijan
Celtic Anarchy
Posted - 2006.11.15 20:46:00 - [168]
 

How did this get down here? Back to the top! Wink

If you want to help tempests kite throns then reduce the faloff on null to a 0.75 mod intead of the 1.25 mod, but seriously, what do you expect a taranis to hit with all it's t2 ammo gimping tracking?
Tracking with an orbit as close as is required for blasters is allready tough... don't make it impossible!

Stormhold
Art of War
Posted - 2006.11.15 21:58:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Seige Launchers? You'd have to use 425mm's and t1 tank to try and get enough CPU to fit them. You get more damage from a damage mod than fitting seige launchers. The cpu problems caused by seige launchers isn't worth the minimal damage they add.


Erm.

7 Ion IIs: 346,5 CPU
6 650 IIs + 2 siege IIs: 303 CPU

Given that Mega and Tempest have the same of CPU, that argument doesn't fly.


I would kill for a ion-fitted blasterthron with 43.5 more cpu to use.

Anyway, calculating that with 1 gun size doesn't solve anything anyway. Need to do it with all sizes really. Besides, you need to take ship slots to account too etc.

PS. Don't nerf null that bad atleast, Tuxie <3

Dana Barrett
Perkone
Posted - 2006.11.15 22:18:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Dana Barrett on 15/11/2006 22:23:00
I'm late to this thread, but all I can say is this: Gallente's time has come. If you look at the AFs, Gallente has nearly zero penalties when using T2 ammo (Null and Void). Caldari AFs, on the other hand, have to deal with either T2 missiles (that slow you down bigtime) or T2 rails (Javelin slows you to a standstill, and Spike has awful tracking and crap damage). IMHO light missiles and railguns need something on par with blaster ammo, where my Harpy/Hawk setup will not be nerfed to oblivion.

Or you can take the other approach like CCP, and instead of buffing Caldari AFs and listening to many on here whine about Caldari pwnage, they nerf T2 blaster ammo.

edit: this was purely an AF rant. If replying, please do not talk about the Rokh, Mega, falloff, Barrage, etc.

Murukan
Minmatar
Posted - 2006.11.15 22:32:00 - [171]
 

OMG NERF AUTOCANNONS TOO THEY ARE TOO L33T!

Angus McLean
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2006.11.15 22:50:00 - [172]
 

Originally by: Friedrick Psitalon
I'm going to start a thread for the folks tired of the ranting and whining, who are looking to adjust and evolve with new ship layouts and new ideas.

Are there changes that will throw the current system awry? Absolutely. Do we have better things to do than complain about it? I certainly hope so.

Yes, t2 ammo is getting thumped.
Yes, ammo-using folks are getting thumped.
Yes, capacitor-hungry setups are going to suffer.
Yes, God hates Gallentes. Or doesn't. It's irrelevant.
Yes, Caldaris are going to enjoy the benefits of these changes more than others.

Great. We've got that settled. The world isn't fair.

Can we move on, please? Join in on one of the already-existing complaint threads instead of lobbing up another.


You forgot 1.

Yes, Amarr as of 2006 have officially become a faction and not an empire.


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