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blankseplocked Is there a guide to Logging Off from gate camps properly?
 
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.10.31 22:50:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 31/10/2006 22:51:15
Curious really....

I'm an ex- Guild Wars player, played with many of the best "players" in that game. Won Hall of Heroes multiple times - it is a very nice game yes.

Reason i'm not playing it any more? I was after a game with depth, subtly, requiring good communication, mature players, and a variety of things to do. I'm very glad i found eve (about 6 months ago).

Guild Wars - yes you do have to interrupt skills ever 0.25 seconds - i was an extremely good mesmer - one of the better ones - my vault full of sigils won in HoH is testament to this.

But strange how you come here to slag eve off - fair enough - and seem to think GW is the be all and end all of ultimate Pvp? It isn't. Guild Wars has fast degenerated into a game with 2 builds. I-WAY and Ranger Spike. Yep it takes no skill to camp a gate. By the way does it take any skill to press '1' after someone counts 3,2,1 on TS?

Rolling Eyes

The only really good thing with gw was if you logged out, or d/c in the game your character died. You were punished for either your connection, or your cowardice (noone really ran away - everyone stood and fought against all odds). Really wish something similar could be brought into this game to punish the cowards.

Hellraiza666
Viziam
Posted - 2006.10.31 22:57:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Gaven Blands
As you may or may not know, logging off is not an exploit. Anyway there are right ways and wrong ways to do it to save your ship from whatever situation you want to save it from.

Like, relogging straight back in with an alt allegedly removes your main's ship from space more quickly.

Or logging back in with your main and logging back out again forces your ship another million km away from the danger zone...

So, without the usual flames about camping/logging, is there a guide anyway to the subtle nuances of logging out most effectively?



Ask AAA or RA. They seem to know alot about exploits and logging off.

Ariel Dawn
Posted - 2006.11.01 01:54:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 01/11/2006 02:08:25
Zixxa, how about you Please be nice, if you dont like what is being said, please voice your objections in a constructive manner - Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc realise that shockingly, EVE is not the only PvP game out there. If you find EVE so unique, perhaps you're the one who needs their intelligence insulted. It's WoW in space with a few minor tweaks, and no amount of denial will prevent that from being true.

I agree with most of Gaven's points, especially the ones made about these forums and it's oh so wonderful inhabitants. It seems to me that all of you no longer think of EVE as a game to be enjoyed from the sheer amount of hate I see tossed around. I had a similar attitude towards FPS games half a year back and played far too seriously, so I started sampling different MMOs for a change of scenery. I found that EVE and spaceships was more interesting to me than WoW and swords. Perhaps people should calm down and accept the fact that there are many people in the EVE universe that do not have excessive amounts of time to put into the game and prefer logging out as opposed to losing a month's time ISK wise. It's not like it has any actual impact on the game besides making a couple people slightly frustrated that they didn't get to add another pointless post to their killboards.

Flame me all you want, but I'm playing EVE to have fun. And if I can avoid it, nothing you can do is going to prevent me from enjoying the game.

Xs 142
Posted - 2006.11.01 02:07:00 - [94]
 

Now now don't be too nice people Rolling Eyes

Anyways, as we all know, everyone loves gatecampers, right?

Rayvonuk
Privateers
Posted - 2006.11.01 02:20:00 - [95]
 

so GW is better because you have to click really fast sometimes ?
lol
if you think eve is just a matter of selecting your targets and hitting the F keys then your a tad wrong.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2006.11.01 02:41:00 - [96]
 

Logging onto an alt to remove your main from space stopped working several patches ago. And last time I checked, it was still not working.

Plutoinum
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2006.11.01 03:25:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Plutoinum on 01/11/2006 03:43:04
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
It's WoW in space with a few minor tweaks, and no amount of denial will prevent that from being true.

Since you don't understand how pvp is embedded into EVE anyway, it's no wonder that you don't see the difference.
EVE is not a PvE game that allows some PvP *pew* *pew* as a bonus for a bit action.
EVE is built on a pvp concept that's enhanced by PvE content.
So WoW is basically a PvE game with PvP as a feature.
In EVE, PvP is an instrument of power, it's not always just about having a nice shooty shooty. It's an instrument to reach your goals, to become rich etc. ( PvP not only meant as fighting, but also economy )

Take a look in the corps and alliances forum and then you might understand, what pvp is in EVE. Alliances fight eachother not just for a bit shooty shooty, it's also about power and control. If one side decides to attack, the other is better prepaired or might lose all what they have been working for for months, billions of assets, their home, whatever.
Wars are really fought seriously in EVE, the loss of your enemy is you success, and we like it.

So sorry that I don't have much understanding for some solo newbie in 0.0, who wants just to do, what he likes and go, where he wants to go, without being prepaired and doing anything for his security and then demands that I play EVE different, when I meet him.
I put people usually in categories in 0.0: Friends, hostiles and people, who are not supposed to be there. If they survive, well played, if they die, well, one point for me, a person, who's not supposed to be there, eliminated, everything under control +1. Laughing

Ok, I might be nice, if I notice that someone is a real newbie.
But I wouldn't treat someone different, just because he doesn't like it rough.
In 0.0 same rules for everyone, who enters. Jumping in and relying on good luck ? Well, luck... sometimes you have bad luck. Alone ? Primarily a risk that you chose to take. Unprepaired ? Your fault. Why should we care ? etc.

/edit: tried to build more complete sentences.Wink

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2006.11.01 03:33:00 - [98]
 

The more people using this...

The higher the chance CCP will actually bother to do something to address this.


Unfortunate, yes, but CCP dont agree with the players, and dont see it as a problem.

Ariel Dawn
Posted - 2006.11.01 03:43:00 - [99]
 

Plutonium, myself being a newbie to MMOs, I was under the impression that the entire purpose in games such as WoW was to do PvE for 'phat lewtz' which would then be used for PvP. PvP in EVE does have a far greater impact upon the in-game world than in other MMOs, but the actual fights themselves seem to me as straight-forward as in other MMO games. Not much difference between the right combination of spells and swords versus the right combination of pew-pew and electronic warfare, and the playfield in terms of movement is pretty limiting in EVE (Fight at the gates, belts, or PoSes).

But anyways, I've forgotted what this thread is about. Why do the forums only show the OP when you reply to a post?

Plutoinum
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2006.11.01 03:59:00 - [100]
 

Edited by: Plutoinum on 01/11/2006 03:59:18
The point is not gate camping, the point is that people can log to avoid destruction.

- I don't want to get killed, I log.
- I'm not prepaired, I log.
- I'm outnumbered, I log.
- This isn't fair, I log.
...
Stupid. That's not how EVE is supposed to be played. You are not supposed to have that choice. Either you fight and win, lose your ship or escape. It's pointless, how your odds are, the option to avoid the situation by logging off is not supposed to be there.

And CCP sees that, too. The question is just, if/when they change it and how.

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2006.11.01 04:05:00 - [101]
 

right before you log off to avoid their bubble, be sure to smack in local and fit all stabs

might as well, right? i mean its allowed.

Antzor
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.01 04:09:00 - [102]
 

Avoid a gatecamp?

Well you can try to break through it, and hopefully either not get hit or take all the damage and speed through, or you could warp away and try again later, or you could leave the system in a shower of various ship chunks. Your choice!

FourFourTwo
Gallente
Wise Guys
Posted - 2006.11.01 10:09:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Nira Li
Logging is not even lame, it's weak it's like spitting on a bug and thinking you are cool.


Since we're discussing weak and lame, I consider gate camping in a huge blob to be a vaild tactic to catch a specific war target or for revenge against a certain corp or group of players, but to just sit there and attack any innocent passer-by who will have no chance of defending themselves is equally weak and lame if you ask me.

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.01 11:02:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu
right before you log off to avoid their bubble, be sure to smack in local and fit all stabs

might as well, right? i mean its allowed.


Did someone give you a copy of my EVE playbook? Who is responsible for this leakage of my advanced military tactics?

To be honest I don't have any problem with log-off tactics as long as it offends someone like Rells. It may be weak, but it is seems more demoralising to them than actually blowing up their ship, which almost justifies the tactic.

DeTox MinRohim
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2006.11.01 22:01:00 - [105]
 

I did not read this thread... ... I did not read this thread... ... I did not....

For the record, I'm 3 months old and I think logging off to save your ship or whatever is lame. So as for thinking only the vets think it's lame... not quite.

One of the most simple reason why this tactic is lame... Roleplay. You can't just *poof* out of space to... nowhere.
One word for that: P-a-t-h-e-t-i-c !

Enjoy your time logged off. oktanksbye Rolling EyesWink

Lrrp
Minmatar
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2006.11.01 22:28:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Murukan
i think if they have you sit in space for a minute when you log it should be a nice fix. If you really just crashed well you can log back in and you don't even have to wait for the emergency warp luck you!

Seriously logging in combat just means your balls haven't dropped yet.


Well Please be nice, if you dont like what is being said, please voice your objections in a constructive manner - Huitzilopochtli Tlaloc , since when is a gate camp by 6 BS, piloted by 3 year veterans, that shoot and destroy a industrial at a low sec. gate coming out of high sec, somehow considered "Combat". Oh yeah, the combat is when the sentry guns open fire right? Can we then say it is also cajone-less warping away to a safe spot to escape the guns and not much different than logging off? I mean big guy, stay at the gate and destroy the gate guns or be destroyed.
Same chance the Inde has except you have the inde scrammed and the only way he can warp away is to log. Unless the dev. make logging only in a station, then logging is a part of the game and as such a tactic to be used.
Gate camps in 0.0 to counter incursions by rival alliances is one thing, camping to boost your corps kill stats is as lame as logging and says something about your psychological R/L make-up.

ghosttr
Amarr
ARK-CORP
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2006.11.01 22:29:00 - [107]
 

The only time that I would condone logging off to avoid destruction is if something unnatural happens in the game which prevents you from going on normally.

For example, the other day I went to jump through a gate after fighting my way towards it only for the gate to tell me that I had to wait in a queue line with about 5 guys attacking me and others warping in. In a normal situation i would have plowed through the gate camp to the other side where a station was where I could hide in safety.

When a situation like this arises I think that should be an exception, but besides that i think it is a cheap way to avoid death.

DefJam101
Gallente
Monolithic.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2006.11.01 22:40:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: FourFourTwo
Originally by: Nira Li
Logging is not even lame, it's weak it's like spitting on a bug and thinking you are cool.


Since we're discussing weak and lame, I consider gate camping in a huge blob to be a vaild tactic to catch a specific war target or for revenge against a certain corp or group of players, but to just sit there and attack any innocent passer-by who will have no chance of defending themselves is equally weak and lame if you ask me.


Your not defenseless, use the map or shut up please.
If you do not readily PvP you have no say in any matters in EVE, since you are playing the way it was not intended.
You wanna grind PvE rats all day fine, but you don't get to say anything about this, because you are wrong.
I'm sorry but its as simple as that.
There is no such thing as an unfair fight in EVE. Although being a "fair" fight doesn't always make it fun.

Rat Hubble
BlackWater Mercenaries
The Firm.
Posted - 2006.11.01 22:54:00 - [109]
 

If I was an ISK farming complex ***** then I would need to know how to prtotect the "tools of my trade" (ships).

Chivalry, pride, honour etc are primarily not issues to those that might be wanting to screw the game over to make RL money - that would be my humble opinion.

Logging (I'm guessing) is not an exploit simply because it can not be readily distinguished from a CTD etc.

Calio
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.01 23:29:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Amiable Quinn
Another thing I notice in this response is that some of the EvE populaiton is under the impression that they are more "bad@$$" then the rest of the MMORPG community. Rolling Eyes Which I think is kind of like bragging your knitting circle has the most hardcore crochete. Don't mess with me or I will knit you a sweater, @@#$%@!


ROTFLMAO

QFTExclamation

Kim Chee
Caldari
Old Timers Guild Inc.
Posted - 2006.11.02 00:00:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Calio
Originally by: Amiable Quinn
Another thing I notice in this response is that some of the EvE populaiton is under the impression that they are more "bad@$$" then the rest of the MMORPG community. Rolling Eyes Which I think is kind of like bragging your knitting circle has the most hardcore crochete. Don't mess with me or I will knit you a sweater, @@#$%@!


ROTFLMAO

QFTExclamation


Curse you! I only have Advanced Mittens III, I can't fight someone with Sweaters!

Macropwner1337
Posted - 2006.11.02 00:02:00 - [112]
 

ctrl q

Essential 12939
Posted - 2006.11.02 00:06:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Amiable Quinn
Another thing I notice in this response is that some of the EvE populaiton is under the impression that they are more "bad@$$" then the rest of the MMORPG community. Rolling Eyes Which I think is kind of like bragging your knitting circle has the most hardcore crochete. Don't mess with me or I will knit you a sweater, @@#$%@!


Heh :)
I think it's something to do with non-consentual PvP. Your Garden Variety Eve Addict will believe PvP does not occur in any other MMO. He thinks this BECAUSE the only PvP an Eve Addict seeks is one where his gang outblobs the opponent by at LEAST 5 to 1, and thus in a consentual PvP game, nobody would agree to fight that battle, ergo no PvP takes place, ergo, Eve players are HARD because they PvP and nobody else does.

I think that about covers it.

Miss Overlord
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2006.11.02 00:06:00 - [114]
 

ok ctrl + q is ideal (logging off is lame) but lets play devils advocate here and describe how to do it legally as CCP endorses it atm

dont aggress when u jump into something hostile log off ( log in with an alt nearby after 2 minutes perhaps trained up as a cloaker) warp into range and watch if you have assets etc when hte camp clears u are free to log in and continue. Or use a corp mate in cheap alt scout to check for ya.

But yes dont uncloak u just go automatically if not engaged and CCP supports it now back to reality its bad form but there are certain peeps out there (russian alliance anyone) who use legal game mechanics as an iwin button its up to CCP to deal with it.

Earthan
Gallente
GREY COUNCIL
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2006.11.02 06:37:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Gaven Blands
As you may or may not know, logging off is not an exploit. Anyway there are right ways and wrong ways to do it to save your ship from whatever situation you want to save it from.

Like, relogging straight back in with an alt allegedly removes your main's ship from space more quickly.

Or logging back in with your main and logging back out again forces your ship another million km away from the danger zone...

So, without the usual flames about camping/logging, is there a guide anyway to the subtle nuances of logging out most effectively?


sorrry man this is disgusting .

Play without exploits ( sure dev can tell its legal and it may be leggaly right but its common sense and everybody agree its lame and its exploit)

Lord Drachenfels
Caldari
Posted - 2006.11.02 09:41:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

This whole game is an exploit. Logon traps are an exploit. Instas are an exploit. Buying a character for isk and using it to alt spy is an exploit.

Ppl whine about the exploits which do not suit them, while using those exploits that benefit them.

Heck look at the stab nerf.

Stabs were an in-game mechanic.

The rich and powerful did not like them because their smaller more nimble opponents could use them for hit and run attacks and avoid going toe to toe with the dominant powers. Pirate bands like BE and such could use them for hit and run raids into 0.0

The big alliances lobbied out-of-game to change the in-game mechanics to suit them and CCP bowed to them.

Its the same thing with Logoffski.

Anything to please the big alliances. The exploits THEY use are ok. The exploits OTHERS use against them are not.

Now, I'm not arguing FOR ctrl-q.

I'm saying get rid of ALL the exploits.

Logon traps.

Instas.

Alt spies.

Logoffski

And gate camping sucks. That's low quality garbage PVP. Move PVP away from the gates to where RESOURCES are collected. Have people fight over things like FUEL and ORE not simply TRAVEL.

Having to keep 5000 instas SUCKS. Having to play the gatecamp scanner mambo SUCKS. You shouldn't have to wake up at 5am just to get a BS into an empty part of 0.0 that nobody uses. We need less chokepoints. All the PIPES should be relatively safe for TRAVEL, the BRANCHES off those pipes is what corps and alliances should OWN.

Not oh we own 1 choke point so we own 3 regions worth of roids and nobody but us can use them.
So true so true!!
Signed! Razz

Essential 12939
Posted - 2006.11.02 09:51:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

.. Probably the single most useful concept to understand about Eve or any MMO ..



When I quit Eve, Cipher7 gets my stuff, so now you don't need to ask.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2006.11.02 10:13:00 - [118]
 

I so totally agree with cipher7, more power to that guy.

Maybe loggin out to save your ship from a gate camp is lame, but low sec gate camping is not one step below in lameness. Those sentry guns seriously need a boost and the agression timer could be lowered or removed for all I care. And again, I said low sec not 0.0

Nev Clavain
Wise Guys
Rogue Method Alliance
Posted - 2006.11.02 10:44:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: DefJam101
Originally by: FourFourTwo
Originally by: Nira Li
Logging is not even lame, it's weak it's like spitting on a bug and thinking you are cool.


Since we're discussing weak and lame, I consider gate camping in a huge blob to be a vaild tactic to catch a specific war target or for revenge against a certain corp or group of players, but to just sit there and attack any innocent passer-by who will have no chance of defending themselves is equally weak and lame if you ask me.


Your not defenseless, use the map or shut up please.
If you do not readily PvP you have no say in any matters in EVE, since you are playing the way it was not intended.
You wanna grind PvE rats all day fine, but you don't get to say anything about this, because you are wrong.
I'm sorry but its as simple as that.
There is no such thing as an unfair fight in EVE. Although being a "fair" fight doesn't always make it fun.


Whether you believe it or not, people like you with your 'hardcore pvp attitude' telling everyone how the game was intended to be played probably cause more loggin off than anyone else. You don't see any need for a fair fight? The neither do the people you are trying to kill, and they will use the means at their disposal to avoid you. This includes logging off which for the record is not an exploit. Then you come here and whine about it.

You are enacting very much what you are complaining about here. You are calling your own tactics legitimate while calling other tactics that frustrate you illegitimate.

Paying your subscription gives you an equal right to discussion in this forum, this applies to everyone, whether you agree with their point of view or not. For the record the person you are speaking to doesnt actually grind pve all day long. He just understands why people log off against overwhelming gatecamps filled with over-excitable teens with "WTFBBQED" already typed into their local chat before the event.

If you accept that combat in eve should not be fair or equal, then you should accept logging off as a tactic, until it is deemed an exploit by the powers that be. Until it is illegal, it is just a tactic the same as any other. The same as attaking a frigate in a stabbed vagabond. The same as blobbing a t1 cruiser with a 50 man gatecamp. Unfair, but legal. Adapt, as they say.

N'olive
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2006.11.02 10:54:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: N''olive on 02/11/2006 10:57:16
Yeah Cipher7 for president ! :)

Quote:
But setting up with 3 battleships in a 0.4 system, next to a newbie starter system, or next to a system where people obtain level 2 missions is not assuming risk - it's cowardly behavior and nothing less.

100% agreed.

1 week ago I went fom 0.5 to 0.4 in my shiny new BC, took me f'kin ages to buy it because in empire it's pretty hard for beginners to make real money, so I jumped from 0.5 to 0.4 to try some more profitable rats, and there *blam*, blasted in 10 seconds by 3 BS sec standing -10.

Next time I'll log off while cloaked for sure, and those lame c()cksuckers will have to find another prey.

Fighting LCM by LCCM (Lame Counter Counter Measures).



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